Rors Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 How much of a boost does Greah's warscroll get over a regular chariot? Extra attack, wound, or is it only the command ability? I'm still happy to keep building my khorne ruinbringers, who are now one of the cheapest money for points army out there. Won't be winning tournaments but it has enough legs (wheels?) for casual play and is extremely quick and cheap to buy and paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth criminal Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 At first I thought Idolators give shrines HERO keyword so they can carry auras, but they actually get LEADER one that does literally nothing except allowing you to not take other leaders. What a waste. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herohammer Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Interestingly the Idolator Lord is a hero but not a leader so does carry auras but does not count towards leader limits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herohammer Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) Double post Edited November 8, 2020 by herohammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragest Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, Smooth criminal said: At first I thought Idolators give shrines HERO keyword so they can carry auras, but they actually get LEADER one that does literally nothing except allowing you to not take other leaders. What a waste. Made just to make it general to get the double pray. I imagine some devs thinking that a rule like that should be totally broken, so decided to take out artifacts, make a terrible battallion and deny again the mark on cultists even in their cultists focused allegiance. Edited November 8, 2020 by Ragest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Yes, once again they've managed to fail when it comes to Slaves... seriously, hand their rules over to someone capable and redesign the whole army. They need buffed warscrolls for a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Ragest said: Hope they got fired +++ MOD HAT +++ Please refrain from comments such as this on TGA, hoping that somebody gets fired based on your opinion of rules isn't acceptable and won't be tolerated. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth criminal Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Ragest said: Made just to make it general to get the double pray. I imagine some devs thinking that a rule like that should be totally broken, so decided to take out artifacts, make a terrible battallion and deny again the mark on cultists even in their cultists focused allegiance. Fun fact is, only HEROes receive general traits as per core book. So the only one who get to double pray is the chariot who gets upgraded to priest. I assume the idea here is to spam more than 4 of them because they stop being behemoths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herohammer Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Do they stop being behemoths though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 30 minutes ago, herohammer said: Do they stop being behemoths though? Chariots haven't been behemoths for a long time so there was nothing stopping us spamming them anyway. However you can only upgrade one chariot to be a priest/leader and I dont see any benefit in spamming chariots in Idolators over say Ravagers where you can summon more bodies. On 11/8/2020 at 9:07 AM, Rors said: How much of a boost does Gresh's warscroll get over a regular chariot? Extra attack, wound, or is it only the command ability? The battalion, which is Idolators only, makes one chariot Rokar Gresh who gets +2 attacks to his great blade which is damage D3 instead of flat 2 (arguable if thats a boon or a nerf) and does D3 mortals on 6 to hit (not in addition) as well as the +1 to hit command ability (however the buff is at start of combat and only lasts for the phase, not until the next hero/combat phase like most Slaves buffs). He gets no extra wounds and you have to take 2 x gorebeast chariots and they all have to be Chaos Undivided so dont see any value in that battalion at all, especially since there are no extra artifacts to take. Would much rather fit all my chariots into Ruinbringers where the extra mortal wounds on the charge will do far more than a couple of extra great blade attacks. Having the warshrine prayer go off on 2+ is definitely nice but it and the priest chariot lord not having the hero keyword means no mark of chaos aura and no command traits or artifacts (the one realm artifact available anyway). This might get FAQ'ed where they do get the hero keyword but wouldn't hold my breath. Also, dont see the value in cultists as battleline when we can already choose from warriors, knights, chariots, marauders and marauder horsemen who are all superior choices. Overall its a very fluffy legion but certainly much weaker then all of the other legions and unfortunately a big disappointment for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herohammer Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 I meant to ask if warshrines lose behemoth and just become leaders. Don’t leader/behemoths still count towards the behemoth limit? I thought it was just battleline/behemoth that ignore behemoth restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, herohammer said: I meant to ask if warshrines lose behemoth and just become leaders. Don’t leader/behemoths still count towards the behemoth limit? I thought it was just battleline/behemoth that ignore behemoth restrictions. Oh yeah, Warshrines are definitely behemoths and so you are limited to 4 in a 2K game and pretty sure being a leader doesnt effect that at all. Making them a leader without the hero keyword actually limits the amount of other heroes you can take although as someone else already pointed out it is beneficial in the one or two battleplans where leaders earn extra points for objectives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyn Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said: Chariots haven't been behemoths for a long time so there was nothing stopping us spamming them anyway. However you can only upgrade one chariot to be a priest/leader and I dont see any benefit in spamming chariots in Idolators over say Ravagers where you can summon more bodies. The battalion, which is Idolators only, makes one chariot Rokar Gresh who gets +2 attacks to his great blade which is damage D3 instead of flat 2 (arguable if thats a boon or a nerf) and does D3 mortals on 6 to hit (not in addition) as well as the +1 to hit command ability (however the buff is at start of combat and only lasts for the phase, not until the next hero/combat phase like most Slaves buffs). He gets no extra wounds and you have to take 2 x gorebeast chariots and they all have to be Chaos Undivided so dont see any value in that battalion at all, especially since there are no extra artifacts to take. Would much rather fit all my chariots into Ruinbringers where the extra mortal wounds on the charge will do far more than a couple of extra great blade attacks. Having the warshrine prayer go off on 2+ is definitely nice but it and the priest chariot lord not having the hero keyword means no mark of chaos aura and no command traits or artifacts (the one realm artifact available anyway). This might get FAQ'ed where they do get the hero keyword but wouldn't hold my breath. Also, dont see the value in cultists as battleline when we can already choose from warriors, knights, chariots, marauders and marauder horsemen who are all superior choices. Overall its a very fluffy legion but certainly much weaker then all of the other legions and unfortunately a big disappointment for me. The Chaos Chariot upgraded to Idolator Chaos Lord do get the HERO keyword and PRIEST it seems, it is the warshrine the one who dont get HERO, only LEADER... as far as I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dressedspring1 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 On 11/7/2020 at 4:10 PM, JackStreicher said: Same, Slaanesh and Tzeentch here 👋🏻 In running them in Khorne. A block of warriors with a bloodsecrator behind them actually puts out a lot of damage and also keeps your buff heros safe behind their wall of rerollable saves 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaylorCorvette Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 59 minutes ago, Dressedspring1 said: In running them in Khorne. A block of warriors with a bloodsecrator behind them actually puts out a lot of damage and also keeps your buff heros safe behind their wall of rerollable saves Yeah I'm running a Khorne army that is primarily StD. I agree StD seems to work much better in god allegiance armies. If cultist could take a Chaos god mark then it would be pretty darn good in god armies too. I sometimes wonder if GW purposely balances StD based on the god allegiance armies and thus it further handicaps StD armies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 I'm really only seeing this allegiance being used for Ruinbringer Warbands to fit that 2nd Hero into the battalion, since the playstyle doesn't benefit much from subfactions, so can make use of Idolators without much loss. Which is ironic given this was supposed to be the cultists subfaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimrock Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said: Yeah I'm running a Khorne army that is primarily StD. I agree StD seems to work much better in god allegiance armies. If cultist could take a Chaos god mark then it would be pretty darn good in god armies too. I sometimes wonder if GW purposely balances StD based on the god allegiance armies and thus it further handicaps StD armies. Well I definitely think that the StD units need to be balanced around the other armies but that shouldn't mean they were handicapped by them. All they need to do to make sure the models are still viable everywhere is to make sure that the StD allegiance abilities are at least as strong or stronger than the ones from the other chaos armies. GW straight up said that the StD models should be at their strongest in the StD allegiance during the release previews, but obviously they seem to have missed the mark somewhat. Personally I think the biggest issues affecting the balance of the faction is they put too much weight on the buffs from the sorcerer and the warshrine and seemed to have baked them into the point values for the army. Full rerolls to hit and wound are catastrophically good but they're just a touch too unreliable when they're going off on a 3+ prayer or 6 to cast. It means in games where you always have your buffs you'll simply wreck face everywhere, and games where you miss them on the clutch turn you're facing a massive uphill battle. Honestly I think the abilities are far too polarizing and the faction would have been much easier to balance without them. Edited November 9, 2020 by Grimrock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaylorCorvette Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Grimrock said: Full rerolls to hit and wound are catastrophically good but they're just a touch too unreliable when they're going off on a 3+ prayer or 6 to cast. It means in games where you always have your buffs you'll simply wreck face everywhere, and games where you miss them on the clutch turn you're facing a massive uphill battle. Honestly I think the abilities are far too polarizing and the faction would have been much easier to balance without them. Yes I agree and frankly that's why I take StD in my Khorne army. Re-rolling the Warshrines prayer next to the Skull Alter all but guarantees it goes off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dressedspring1 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Yep, and as someone who really loves the chaos lord on crackerjack, he’s at his best with the gorecleaver and hew the foe. I think if you’re really set on Slaves allegiance you can get some of the benefits of Khorne by allying in a lot of the buff units (bloodsecrator, stoker) but given that most of your slaves stuff can port into Khorne there isn’t a really strong case to stay within the slaves allegiance. And hey, if you’re like me and love chaos warriors, they actually become quite respectable when for 270 points you’re putting out 45 attacks with rerollable hits, let alone if you start throwing on bloodstoker buffs as well. I think even if you’re staying in allegiance you really need to consider what units from your chosen mark god faction you should ally in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyx Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Generally, the StD units are so much better in God armies. The strengths of StD are the hero auras (However, they are very short-ranged, so at best, you can cover two- threee units with one hero, which makes the army quite inflexible. The other strengths are Belakor, Shrine and magic, especially the teleport spell. However, you can have all of this (except the auras and the spells) in other allegiances on top of othr great buffs. In a Khorne army, you can get +1 attack, +1 to hit, reroll wounds and +1 save on top of the StD buffs. In Nurgle, you can make your units run and charge, Blades of Putrefaction and the Command Abilities from the Lord of Blights or the Harbinger make them even more resilient than in StD. In Slaanesh, you can deepstrike units with Lurid Haze, get the Slaanesh buff all the time and Marauders really kick ass with +2 attacks on a 6 to hit. With Tzeentch, it is a different story. Tzeentch is much better in supporting StD than the other way round. Kairos or the Blue Scribes are valuable allies, not only for Cabalists. Nevertheless, the best faction for StD units is Khorne. They get so many buffs on StD. Chaos Warriors really start to shine with +1 attack. I`ve tried 20 of them with Halberds, A big brick with a 3+ rerollable save (In Flayed it can go up to 2+) that throws out lots of wounds- without Rend, but numbers count as well. And what`s better than Marauders with a lot of attacks? Marauders with more attacks. Archaon really gets mad in a Reapers of Vengeance army. He may pile in up to 4 times (normal pile-in, Reapers, Chaos Lord, by my will). Chaos Knights are better off with StD allegiance and Khorne supporters making them 4 attacks, 2+ reroll 1s and 2+ to wound. So there are some cases in which StD is better, but they are too few to justify the army as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaylorCorvette Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Dressedspring1 said: Yep, and as someone who really loves the chaos lord on crackerjack, he’s at his best with the gorecleaver and hew the foe. For sure! The Chaos Lord on crackerjack is one of my favorite models. So much so that I converted one to fit my Khorne Vampire Army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, BaylorCorvette said: crackerjack In slaves to darkness this model has become the kacka-drak (kacka = German for poo-poo) 😆 overall I am not surprised the new Subfaction is lackluster as well 🤷🏼♂️ making S2D kind of bad seems to be a think at GW Headquarters. Edited November 9, 2020 by JackStreicher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragest Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 And that’s sad, because a mini like the karkadrak one could be a beast in another army. I think he has some good ways to damage, healing and a decent CA, but slaves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rors Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 While I agree that slaves are a bitten tier army, they have some strong options and multiple ways to play that still see results at tournaments. I think that speaker wonders for just how much better GW has gotten with game design. Now that they're starting their own tournament scene and 'meta watch' I think it'll only get better. The gap between the top and bottom of the pile has never been smaller 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rors said: The gap between the top and bottom of the pile has never been smaller It‘s just the same it has always been? Edited November 10, 2020 by JackStreicher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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