Lightbox Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 52 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: @angry_peon sadly you Are Right... Maybe it‘s just me, Bit it feels bad that this force is almost 2k points... feels like 1400 pts to me mhm... I am currently trying to build an army I can use in any Chaos Battletome by just adding some Battletome specific units/battalions. But damn S2D are do expensive for what little they do in the board Unless you're running knights of the empty throne you might wanna drop one of those varanguard units for some extra heroes? As they can help in battleplans (and more aura's flying around) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 @Lightbox I think you are right. Yet I need something that can deal damage x_X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xs_0013 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Hey guys What are people's thoughts on chaos chosen as a heavy hitter unit? Like others I have found battle line choices to be a bit lackluster when trying to dish out damage. Their profile seems pretty solid, whack on a mark of khorne and they suddenly look pretty scary with all those attacks rerolling ones to hit and wounding on 2's plus additional MW. On the more expensive side, granted. But I don't really see another option. Would a 10man unit be effective line breaker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry_peon Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, JackStreicher said: But damn S2D are do expensive for what little they do in the board Well, our core units are expensive, but so far I had a blast building lists and trying out Ravagers and Cabalists (looking forward to trying Despoilers as well). There are just so many different things to try out, with relatively similar models used, it's insane. And I got to say, my lists have been doing pretty well (though I only played friendly matches at home, so far and we all just started AoS in May). The Ravagers are awesome because the mere possibility of spawning marauders in the backline, keeps the opponent on edge (literally!) and the Cabalists (tried them out with that old Bloodthirster as Be'Lakor before I bought him) were really good at casting all those juicy spells. Also, some of our synergy/MvP models are really cheap for what they bring to the table. Sorcerers on foot, awesome ability + awesome built in spell + mark bubble for 110 points is a steal. The command ability of the Chaos Lord on foot (target unit fights in hero phase) is just beastly if used on the correct target (like 40 marauders or... Archaon!), and he is also only 110 points (iirc). Edited October 1, 2020 by angry_peon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 (edited) @angry_peon Ravagers is my favorite! Cabalists are interesting, yet I roll too badly to get any magic or ritual off ever... Edited October 1, 2020 by JackStreicher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMB Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Anyone using Frostgrave Barbarians for Marauders? Are they fit well in the army? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry_peon Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 42 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: @angry_peon Ravagers is my favorite! Cabalists are interesting, yet I roll too badly to get any magic or ritual off ever... I only tried Cabalists once, but since I hate 3+ (because it feels kinda safe, but it IS NOT!) I actually made my ritual foot-sorcy the general and gave him the command trait for the 2+ ritual. 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 2 hours ago, HMB said: Anyone using Frostgrave Barbarians for Marauders? Are they fit well in the army? I use them and quite like them. I use some basing to cover up the plastic base they are stuck to, adds a bit of height as well. The proportions and general design fit AoS rather well I think. I used some leftover bits from a chaos warrior box to add a banner and a horn to one guy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMB Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Scurvydog said: I use them and quite like them. I use some basing to cover up the plastic base they are stuck to, adds a bit of height as well. The proportions and general design fit AoS rather well I think. I used some leftover bits from a chaos warrior box to add a banner and a horn to one guy. thank you so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 2 hours ago, angry_peon said: I actually made my ritual foot-sorcy the general and gave him the command trait for the 2+ ritual. 😅 That's still too hard for me. I need a 2+ with a reroll just to have a 50% chance XD It's a curse I tell you: When your Uncle greets you at his birthday and asks whether your dice rolls are still as bad as they used to be, then at the latest, you realize that your dice rolls are in fact bad and it was not just your impression for all these years XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 On 10/1/2020 at 7:45 PM, HMB said: Anyone using Frostgrave Barbarians for Marauders? Are they fit well in the army? I am. It's an awesome, cheap kit with lots of variety and only a couple of dorky heads to avoid. You have to convert your musician and banner bearer, obviously. I managed to snag a bunch of Marauder shields on eBay, which chaosifies them really well. I'm REALLY happy with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annarborhawk Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) On 9/29/2020 at 2:45 AM, Scurvydog said: Has anyone got some experience with Knights of the Empty Throne? I doubt they are all that competitive, as they get 2 command abilities but no way to get command points. It is cool they become leaders though, but a shame they at least did not get the 8 circles as well. I was looking at a unit of 6 as the general with grasping plate and annihilating charge (you really need to get that charge in) or wall of cursed iron. Adding in a shrine and sorc for buffs etc and some knights and marauders for battleline and possibly another unit of 3 varanguards. Grasping plate giving 6" engagement range and +3" pile in, should ensure even if they charge in and kill something, they can activate again once per battle and make another nasty pile in possibly digging deep into the opponents juicy bits. I am also thinking Mark of khorne to get reroll 1s to hit and +1 wound, which will make them far stronger in combat. There is not much more to it, the army cant shoot, dish out MWs or anything really... I had great success with them in a 2v2 tourney. Make sure you are aware of the errata making them a damned legion, etc. You want to run them in units of 3, because the 5+ command ability "Failure is not an option" lets you bring on a new 3x unit, but you need an alive hero (another unit of varanguard) to spend the command point on. My 1000 pt list was: 3x Varan, 3x Varan, Sorceror Lord, 5x Knights, 5x Warriors - All Mark of Khorne (cept the sorceror of course). I did LOTS and LOTS of maths and test rolling for damage output, and since there are no circles, you want your varanguard to be marked khorne and be armed with daemonic weapons. Just trust me on that. I spent a whole day rolling 1000's of dice to test the options. In the 5 game tourney, on at least 4 occassions I got off "Failure is not an option" , basically for the win. And you are right about Grasping plate. It is grossly strong. You can run to within 5 1/2 inches of your target. The extra long pile-in means you can chose when they fight w/o enemy being able to do anything about it. Then you get the once/game SECOND 3" pile in and attack. It's just a very deadly combo. And then you have that 1/3 chance to bring back the "NEW" unit when it dies, giving IT the once per game second attack! Edited October 2, 2020 by annarborhawk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurrilino Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 On 10/1/2020 at 1:38 AM, JackStreicher said: @angry_peon sadly you Are Right... Maybe it‘s just me, Bit it feels bad that this force is almost 2k points... feels like 1400 pts to me mhm... I am currently trying to build an army I can use in any Chaos Battletome by just adding some Battletome specific units/battalions. But damn S2D are do expensive for what little they do in the board This is what everyone complains about and makes them unplayable. This difference between point cost and value on the board is too extreme to handle. Even half price wouldn't make it better because there are real questionable rules involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 On 10/1/2020 at 6:52 PM, Xs_0013 said: What are people's thoughts on chaos chosen as a heavy hitter unit? Like others I have found battle line choices to be a bit lackluster when trying to dish out damage. I rate them for their high quality attacks and buffs to others, but I reckon they always need full rerolls (Shrine or Daemonic Power) plus an extra attack or two (Secrator ally, Wrathmonger allies) to make a real impact. M6 is alright. Problem for me is that you've always got the option of the glorious Chaos Knights, which are StD Battleline. With +1 attack, Shrine rerolls, and the Knights of Chaos command, 10 of them are doing around 50 damage to a 4+ save enemy unit. Even without an additional attack, they're doing 35 damage vs 4+. Just so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) @Roark Are you Talking about the Knights? 10 of them deal about 4 damage because you won‘t get more than ~3 into combat due to their base size. 😕 You might be mathematically right, yet you did not calculate in the massive bases and short weapon ranges (we’ve discussed this quite a few pages back) Edit: I just pick mine for the cool new Models (which I kitbashed with Varanguard parts). Yet they never had any value so far The only Cavalry unit that ever did anything for me were the varanguard, due to the amount of attacks and usually you can get 3 in which is enough. They also tank very well (3+ Save!). Realistically these guys are worth 160-180 pts tbh Edited October 3, 2020 by JackStreicher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xs_0013 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Yeah I feel any unit needs heavily investing with buffs/Command ability to make it more impactful, bit like has been pointed out the base sizes really hinder them, and on the table you'll rarely get them in that ideal position, which is where the chosen might pull ahead? Likewise, it'll be hard to get them all in fighting range but even half a unit has more attacks at a similar profile than knights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, Xs_0013 said: Yeah I feel any unit needs heavily investing with buffs/Command ability to make it more impactful, bit like has been pointed out the base sizes really hinder them, and on the table you'll rarely get them in that ideal position, which is where the chosen might pull ahead? Likewise, it'll be hard to get them all in fighting range but even half a unit has more attacks at a similar profile than knights Imo Chosen can excel if you use them combined with the Chaos Lord Command Ability to let them fight a second time. My issue with them is their old models though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xs_0013 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: Imo Chosen can excel if you use them combined with the Chaos Lord Command Ability to let them fight a second time. My issue with them is their old models though I don't mind the sculpts themselves, it's the price tag that comes with that's a little eye watering for me. I have been looking at Avatars of War chaos corruptors as a proxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 4 hours ago, JackStreicher said: you won‘t get more than ~3 into combat LMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 4 hours ago, JackStreicher said: Are you Talking about the Knights? 10 of them deal about 4 damage because you won‘t get more than ~3 into combat due to their base size. 😕 You might be mathematically right, yet you did not calculate in the massive bases and short weapon ranges (we’ve discussed this quite a few pages back) OK. Few things and personal experiences: - yeah, I just use pure maths when I'm just doing quick and dirty analysis of effectiveness. It's just quicker. Sorry. - yeah, it's a big unit. And it does gets crowded. I don't deploy or even move them in one big long straight axis though. - I use a big fast screen like Chaos Warhounds to try and control the space around the big Knights unit, even if very temporarily. - I always, always use 2" lances. - I always have the Knights of Chaos command and (frequently) a Bloodstoker ally, so they're rerolling charges at +1 to charge, sometimes +4. This allows them to "unfold" better as they close in and maximise contact. - I'll assume the comment about getting 3 into combat was light-hearted or a touch hyperbolic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Roark said: I'll assume the comment about getting 3 into combat was light-hearted or a touch hyperbolic. It was not. You invest a big part of your army just to make the knights work. I stated how they perform rather unbuffed. And as experience shows: You really rarely get more than 3 to strike: You either lack the movement, space (unless your table is very sparse on terrain) or you don‘t want to pull another unit into the fight. I usually use ensorcelled weapons since lances are just bad imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizianolol Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Guys plaguetouched battalion says " every units of the battalion" it means the hero of that battalion too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whispersofblood Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 On 10/1/2020 at 8:38 AM, JackStreicher said: @angry_peon sadly you Are Right... Maybe it‘s just me, Bit it feels bad that this force is almost 2k points... feels like 1400 pts to me mhm... I am currently trying to build an army I can use in any Chaos Battletome by just adding some Battletome specific units/battalions. But damn S2D are do expensive for what little they do in the board I actually don't think this list is far off from a competitive build. You're low on points because you've over invested in places. 20 Chaos warriors are not 90 points better than 15, and you have too many msu cav units. I'm also sure you do not need shield warriors if the core of your strategy involves a lot of heavy cavalry. The points changes, the movement of the rest of the meta, and the new Battleplans have actually made me a lot more positively inclined to the battletome. The hero section is still a bit of a mess but it's not intolerable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer72 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 On 10/3/2020 at 4:25 PM, Tizianolol said: Guys plaguetouched battalion says " every units of the battalion" it means the hero of that battalion too? On 10/3/2020 at 4:25 PM, Tizianolol said: Guys plaguetouched battalion says " every units of the battalion" it means the hero of that battalion too? Yes of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartianKiwi Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Hey want to do an archaon army with 2 starting box and using the Karkadrak has Vanguard. Anyway I was not sure about which hero(s) Archaon 2X 10 Chaos Warrior 10 Chaos Knight 3 Varanguard 240pts left So either go Chaos Lord and Chaos Sorcerer and Gravetide Sorcerer Manticore Gaunt summoner Sorry if this was posted before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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