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AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion


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11 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

You can give the trait to anyone, but if you make a DP your general, his aura goes from 12" to 18" and he gets a FNP of 5+.

I personally like either Bolstered by Hate (making the DP 10 wounds on his 3+ save and the 5+ FNP), or Paragon of Ruin (D3 units at the beginning of the first round, before the first turn, get to move 5").

Hmm, but Eternal Warrior on Karkadrak and him fighting himself in the hero phase is tempting. He'll do more damage than the DP.

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Just now, Vesper said:

VENDETTA! My bad. Being able to reroll everything against order is pretty good. Lot of order players in local meta.

Oh, fair enough. Although, with the Khorne mark, you already reroll 1s on Hit and almost all your weapons Wound on 2+, so I feel like it's not that important to further improve his stats. The Khorne Daemon Prince also has his CP ability, which is kinda bonkers (18" bubble that reduces to 1/2 run and charge rolls for enemy units until your next hero phase), and with the Sword of Judgement you can smite heroes in a single turn while the Chaos Lord on Karkadrak obliterates units of chaff.

I already count on having the Chaos Lord on Karkadrak be the one in the battalion, so fighting twice in my turn. Meanwhile, the DP will either stop the enemy with his CP or fly over enemy lines, charge a support hero and destroy it with a single attack (4 attacks, each 5+ thanks to charging is D6+2 mortal wounds).

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3 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

Oh, fair enough. Although, with the Khorne mark, you already reroll 1s on Hit and almost all your weapons Wound on 2+, so I feel like it's not that important to further improve his stats. The Khorne Daemon Prince also has his CP ability, which is kinda bonkers (18" bubble that reduces to 1/2 run and charge rolls for enemy units until your next hero phase), and with the Sword of Judgement you can smite heroes in a single turn while the Chaos Lord on Karkadrak obliterates units of chaff.

I already count on having the Chaos Lord on Karkadrak be the one in the battalion, so fighting twice in my turn. Meanwhile, the DP will either stop the enemy with his CP or fly over enemy lines, charge a support hero and destroy it with a single attack (4 attacks, each 5+ thanks to charging is D6+2 mortal wounds).

The sword's regular mortal wounds on 6s is unmodified tho. But yeah D6 MW on a 5+ is tasty. I'll keep this in mind!

YVE4409.png

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I don't get it why on earth GW didn't do the warscroll for the mutalith vortex beast like in 40K when you chose the effect or roll twice for 2 random effects.

Why GW? Why? I love the miniature but as is, it is just not usable. And too expensive (point wise) btw. Foc, another missed opportunity. 🤬

(Could have been ok at 140 pts and same effect as in 40K: you chose the efeect etc.., plus, you can add it in a tzeentch army (it should have been in the DoT book!! grrrr))

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I might switch the marauders for another 15 chaos warriors though. In my local meta people keep things very spread out. Also a lot easier to transport 30 CWs than 15 + 40. We'll see. Casual list so I'm not trying to go for super nasty.

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1 hour ago, Vesper said:

I might switch the marauders for another 15 chaos warriors though. In my local meta people keep things very spread out. Also a lot easier to transport 30 CWs than 15 + 40. We'll see. Casual list so I'm not trying to go for super nasty.

Marauders are soooooooooo good, though.

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3 hours ago, Vesper said:

I might switch the marauders for another 15 chaos warriors though. In my local meta people keep things very spread out. Also a lot easier to transport 30 CWs than 15 + 40. We'll see. Casual list so I'm not trying to go for super nasty.

I am playing 30 warriors in my list right now. 20 with sword and shield and two units of five with two hand weapons. It is fun and makes them feel unique, as I have a nice defensive core and two choppy units. They make a fun little hammer and anvil.

I also play casually and doubt this is the most efficient use of my warriors.

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10 hours ago, Vesper said:

Ravagers! Despoilers seems interesting. Can I only give a warlord trait to a daemon prince if I go despoilers? Curious as to what to give a daemon prince from that list. 

Actually yes, check in the Table with the Despoilers General Traits, there is the line that limits it on top!

10 hours ago, Gistradagis said:

You can give the trait to anyone, but if you make a DP your general, his aura goes from 12" to 18" and he gets a FNP of 5+.

See as stated above: Despoiler Lists can only have Traits for DP Generals. Others can´t receive them. Same goes for Cabalists which needs their General to be a Sorcerer to get access to a trait.

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Next week I will go for tournament with this list. Do you have any idea or tips for it? :) THX

 

Leader:

Archaon - Mask of darkens, Aura of slaanesh

Chaos Sorcerer - Binding Damnation, Aura and mark of Slaanesh

Battleline:

3x Varanguards - Encelsorcelled weapons, Mark of Slaanesh

3x Varanguards - Encelsorcelled weapons, Mark of Slaanesh

40x Marauders - Mark of Slaanesh

20x Marauders - Mark of Slaanesh

Endless Spell:

Eightfold Doom-sigil

 

Idea behind it is that 20 marauders will work as a screen for alpha striking enemmy. 40x Marauders with archaons "By my will" and Sorcerers spell for rerolls and teleport can kill lot of stuff. Sorcerer will also buff Archaon for reroll saves.

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Hey all, new here, and hoping to take a relatively competitive list to a tourney in maybe june, definitely october, and so was looking for folks opinions on the below list:

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Ravagers
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Darkoath Warqueen (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Favoured of the Pantheon
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
- Ravagers Command Trait: Flames of Spite
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Artefact: Mark of the High-favoured
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of Deception

Battleline
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Flails
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Flails
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Units
3 x Varanguard (300)
- 3x Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Slaughterbrute (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battalions
Godsworn Champions of Ruin (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Eightfold Doom-sigil (40)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

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9 hours ago, TaurielBlack said:

Hey all, new here, and hoping to take a relatively competitive list to a tourney in maybe june, definitely october, and so was looking for folks opinions on the below list:

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Ravagers
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Darkoath Warqueen (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Favoured of the Pantheon
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
- Ravagers Command Trait: Flames of Spite
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Artefact: Mark of the High-favoured
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of Deception

Battleline
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Flails
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Flails
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Units
3 x Varanguard (300)
- 3x Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Slaughterbrute (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battalions
Godsworn Champions of Ruin (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Eightfold Doom-sigil (40)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

Hi, looks like a fun list to play that is going to look great on the table top! I do however think you’re going to have some problems w it depending on how competitive the tournament is. Unfortunately mostly because it’s not very “points efficient”, and the synergies that you have in there is a bit too weak imho.

The boring take-outs:

— Warqueen is a bit meh with low armour and doesn’t hit that hard. 

— Chaos Sorc lord is likely an auto include regardless of list. 

— Marauders are ofc great, and I know people do differently, but most people prefer units of 40 to really delete what they go up against. 

— Knights are a bit too expensive as they are, but since they have great sculpts I understand why used! I’ve tried using units of 5, but haven’t had any luck finding their role then. Low staying power and they need a few buffs to really be killy even on charge and only buffing a unit of 5 is quite “expensive”. 

— I love Varanguards, but w/o actually building a list around them (damned legion of choice) I think they’re quite expensive. However, because they’re fun to play and looks great I use mine regularly in casual games, but maybe not in competitive games. 

— With the Slaughterbrute I don’t have any experience. I’d use a Khorne DP if I’d want something killy monster-ish though.

— Warshrine loves buffing large units and you have gone more MSU but I guess it’s still an auto include. 

— Chaos lord on Karkadrak seems to be a nice choice w the battalion you have chosen. It’s a bit on the expensive side but w right artefact it hits amazingly hard, and SoJ is absolutely one of those 🙂

— Godsworn Champions of ruin, I don’t have any experience using. I think it’s quite an investment points-wise and I’m not sure you have the right heroes for it? I’d say a DP would be a good complement (even though you use Ravagers) 🙂 

— Ravagers I’m a bit thorn on, I used it a lot in the beginning w mixed results, good for upping ability for capturing objectives which I think STD need etc. but I didn’t manage to really utilise the rotation of general in a meaningful way! 

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10 hours ago, misthv said:

Hi, looks like a fun list to play that is going to look great on the table top! I do however think you’re going to have some problems w it depending on how competitive the tournament is. Unfortunately mostly because it’s not very “points efficient”, and the synergies that you have in there is a bit too weak imho.

The boring take-outs:

— Warqueen is a bit meh with low armour and doesn’t hit that hard. 

— Chaos Sorc lord is likely an auto include regardless of list. 

— Marauders are ofc great, and I know people do differently, but most people prefer units of 40 to really delete what they go up against. 

— Knights are a bit too expensive as they are, but since they have great sculpts I understand why used! I’ve tried using units of 5, but haven’t had any luck finding their role then. Low staying power and they need a few buffs to really be killy even on charge and only buffing a unit of 5 is quite “expensive”. 

— I love Varanguards, but w/o actually building a list around them (damned legion of choice) I think they’re quite expensive. However, because they’re fun to play and looks great I use mine regularly in casual games, but maybe not in competitive games. 

— With the Slaughterbrute I don’t have any experience. I’d use a Khorne DP if I’d want something killy monster-ish though.

— Warshrine loves buffing large units and you have gone more MSU but I guess it’s still an auto include. 

— Chaos lord on Karkadrak seems to be a nice choice w the battalion you have chosen. It’s a bit on the expensive side but w right artefact it hits amazingly hard, and SoJ is absolutely one of those 🙂

— Godsworn Champions of ruin, I don’t have any experience using. I think it’s quite an investment points-wise and I’m not sure you have the right heroes for it? I’d say a DP would be a good complement (even though you use Ravagers) 🙂 

— Ravagers I’m a bit thorn on, I used it a lot in the beginning w mixed results, good for upping ability for capturing objectives which I think STD need etc. but I didn’t manage to really utilise the rotation of general in a meaningful way! 

Thanks for the comprehensive reply  :) 

I'm personally running the warqueen cause I love the model, so I'm reluctant to remove her >.< but I'll think on it some more.

As to the marauders? I'm still not still not sure on how to boost the marauders properly, and I can see why folks think 40 is best, so any advice on that would be greatly appreciated >.<;

I'm looking to condense the knight units to a unit of 10, cause I just love the models, and buffed right, can hit hard so I'll look at making them pretty good so I can surprise folks.

was going to run the varanguard purely for theme/less models to paint  plus i can kinda make them hit hard'ish

I've been working on a conversion for the karkadrak lord, so kinda have to run her and yeah, she's going to hit hard, specially as on 6's to wound she'll be doing D6+1 mortal wounds to the target, plus 1 mortal wound for every 6 to hit and D3 on the turn she charges.... so just a few mortal wounds O.e , the warshrine I'll have to see, but I'm leaning toward using it cause I'm thinking of a pretty sweet conversion.

The slaughterbrute literally was just cause it's cool, but a  daemon prince could work, and can go in the battalion making him a lot scarier. The champions of ruin warband is so that the karkadrak can hit a ton of times in 1 turn, but if I add the daemon prince and give him a sneaky combat relic, could give me a couple of beaters to wail on the enemy more. It was also so I could essentially turn the army into a 1-2 drop, pending on what I take as extras.

As to Ravagers? I'm liking them mainly due to being able to bring in free troopers to contest objectives etc, which could prove suuuper handy later in the game, when a lot is dead, that and I've always been a sucker for the human side of  Slaves.

I'll post an updated list once I've had time to mull it over.

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Updated list with more compacted units and no battalion for now, may add it back, not sure yet. may drop the shrine for the battalion :3

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Ravagers
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Darkoath Warqueen (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Favoured of the Pantheon
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
- Ravagers Command Trait: Flames of Spite
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Sword
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of Deception

Battleline
40 x Chaos Marauders (300)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
10 x Chaos Knights (360)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
15 x Chaos Warriors (300)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Eightfold Doom-sigil (40)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0

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Finally tried a more infantery heavy list yesterday. So far I always tried some Despoilers + Monsters + Cavalery sheningans, but yesterday was the Day for 15 Chaos 'Warriors + Chaos Lord + Chaos Sorcerer Lord, all Nurgle, and it was great what Chaos Warriors are able to do right now. Despite the fact that I always got the Nurgle-Rule wrong (tought it gets +1D on a 6+ to hit, not to wound) which I noticed midgame, it was quite a blast. Warriors dish out a load of attacks, having full rerolls to hit and wound and save around is really awesome and the damage-doubling on sixes feels really nice against low-save-targets.

For the next games I will toy around with the following core for my lists:

Spoiler

Leaders
Chaos Lord (110)
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
Harbinger of Decay (160)

- Ally

Battleline
15 x Chaos Warriors (300)
- Pair of Hand Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Total: 850 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 60

The redundacy of buffs in the army is something I see currently more of an upside. F.e. I can first try to get the nurgle prayer on the Warriors, if they are at full size I have the full rerolls already due to unit size + Hand weapons. If the unit is under full unit size I can try Daemonic Powers first before giving out the Oracular visions, otherwise I still have a save reroll to give, f.e., on the Warshrine and so on. The Harbringer of Decay can easily make up for the missing Shields and is actually providing protection to everything around, so it becomes harder for my opponent to snipe certain targets.

I have to toy around if this is rather something for a Despoilers or Ravagers list, althrough I really like Despoilers for the access to LoS blockeing and the healing. Also, a Nurgle DP within 6" of the Harbringer of Decay having a 3+/5++/5++ and an additional 6+ within range of the Warshrine seems quite OBR levels of tanky to me.

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What would people say is the best default load-out for Chaos Warriors? 

I'm thinking shields and hand weapon, as you can get rerolls fairly easily in the list, but anyone have experience with other options?

Are great blades worth it for example?

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5 hours ago, Charlo said:

What would people say is the best default load-out for Chaos Warriors? 

I'm thinking shields and hand weapon, as you can get rerolls fairly easily in the list, but anyone have experience with other options?

Are great blades worth it for example?

I think Shields are the best, followed closely by the twin weapons.

 

5 Chaos Warriors with Greatblades vs 5 Chaos Warriors with Twin weapons (11 attacks):

Default - Twin weapons more damage against save of 3+ or less

Khorne General aura - Twin weapons more damage against save of 3+ or less

Khorne Hero aura - Equal damage at 4+ save, Twin weapons better at 5+ or less

Full rerolls to hit AND wound - Greatblades are better

 

That's just a short summary. There are obviously quite a few other permutations  that we could go with. In most situations our twin weapons are better, with the exception being the expenditure of Daemonic power or Undivided Warshrine buff - but if you think of those as resources, then you are having to 'spend' more to make the greatblades better. 

The main point is that we shouldn't be relying on Chaos Warriors to deal damage anyway. They are a unit designed to hold the line, given by the fact they have two wounds, a good save, option to deny mortal wounds, reroll saves at higher numbers,  and their 32mm base size which inhibits good pile-ins and and are limited by weapon reach. Otherwise, you would take them at minimum size simply to use as battleline, meet battalion requirements, or act as a mini screen. 

I think most people would agree with me that your best bet is to buff some other unit more able pile-in to combat which has more damage.

But to your question - between twin weapons and shields? Either one is fine but I'd prefer the shields. The damage is never going to be mindblowing with this unit, so you might as well make them that bit harder to remove. 

 

If you want the beefy rend attacks I'd just take Chosen, who have an extra attack, a better hit roll and a little mortal wound output, along with an aura buff if they kill a model. In my gaming circle, I just run them as Chosen, alongside Chaos Knights, and the occasional Varanguard unit. Marauders fill up battleline. I want my Start Collecting Chaos Warriors to be as scary as they look!

Edited by Snakeb1te
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That is excellent, thank you!

It's a shame they don't deal major damage but like you say buffs are what change that. In truth it feels like a bit of a disconnect that Marauders are probably the best killers in the book but it's a dice game and numbers win out!

How about Halberds? Are they worth it if you're going for a large unit to ensure maximum combatants? Or are you better off keeping the 3+/3+ of a single hand weapon and having the second ranks not hit and just be there to take casualties. I suppose they become better when you start getting re-rolls.

For reference I'll 90% be going with Undivided Marks across the army, I'm just not too into the other marks from a modelling perspective.

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1 hour ago, Charlo said:

How about Halberds? Are they worth it if you're going for a large unit to ensure maximum combatants? Or are you better off keeping the 3+/3+ of a single hand weapon and having the second ranks not hit and just be there to take casualties. I suppose they become better when you start getting re-rolls.

For reference I'll 90% be going with Undivided Marks across the army, I'm just not too into the other marks from a modelling perspective.

My more than 20 years of experience in wargaming told me one thing several times: rule of cool is better than anything else. If you like the look or imagination of halberd wielding Chaos Warriors, go for it!

To be honest, mathhammer and too much search of competetiveness in list building killed ALL gaming groups I ever was part of. If one player starts to run the "most competetive" stuff it will be the end of your gaming group. It´s just a matter of time then.

So use rule of cool und you will have fun. ;)

 

Edited by Hannibal
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1 minute ago, Hannibal said:

My more than 20 years of experience in wargaming told me one thing several times: rule of cool is better than anything else. If you like the look or imagination of halberd wielding Chaos Warriors, go for it!

To be honest, mathhammer and too much search of competetiveness in list building killed ALL gaming groups I ever was part of. If one player starts to run the "most competetive" stuff it will be the end of your gaming group. It´s just a matter of time then.

So use rule of cool und you will have fun. ;)

 

Hallelujah!  I haven't war gamed in 15 years and am just getting back into the hobby.  The internet didn't really exists when I was playing before.  I bought what was cool, I equipped it with the cool guns, I tried to follow a bit of a theme and I had a blast.  I also painted to make some cool squads and didn't know enough to get hung up on a bunch of advanced techniques.

As I got back into it a few months ago I started try to "think" competitively and I also started to obsess over figuring out everything (painting/modeling wise) before I started my 1st guy.  It kinda drove me crazy and I had to relearn "the rule of cool" (that I had never heard of as a 15 year old but innately understood).  I think I'm back on the right side of the coin.  I'm building an army that is based on my understanding of the rules and effective synergies, but I'm focusing on what's cool.

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2 hours ago, Charlo said:

That is excellent, thank you!

It's a shame they don't deal major damage but like you say buffs are what change that. In truth it feels like a bit of a disconnect that Marauders are probably the best killers in the book but it's a dice game and numbers win out!

How about Halberds? Are they worth it if you're going for a large unit to ensure maximum combatants? Or are you better off keeping the 3+/3+ of a single hand weapon and having the second ranks not hit and just be there to take casualties. I suppose they become better when you start getting re-rolls.

For reference I'll 90% be going with Undivided Marks across the army, I'm just not too into the other marks from a modelling perspective.

Buffs are what make the difference but unless you're running 15+ I don't see them being worth the buffs as I doubt you'd manage to get all 15 into combat, and there are other units that can deliver more with these buffs. Marauders as you say- are the way to go. I agree with you about the disconnect, which is why I'm running Warrior models as Chosen - that way I get to see the Armoured doing some damage alongside the Unwashed masses!

Marks

I would suggest reconsidering the Undivided Mark. From a rules perspective - I think it is generally accepted that most of the units in this book aren't terribly points efficient and lack for damage aside from a few particular combos.  What this means is that you  might have trouble displacing well entrenched enemy units from objectives, which is a problem considering we also have a low model count and will generally have our objectives contested. Khorne, Nurgle and Slaanesh marks have the potential to help you with that. That's not to say Undivided doesn't have its place, but when it comes to units with low damage output relative to their points (Warriors, Knights, Varanguard) you want to try to get the most out of them with mark buffs that'll give them more bite. Battleshock immunity is tremendous, but do you think it does enough? Playtesting will give you that answer.

From an aesthetics perspective - I also prefer the Undivided look. But in my mind, if I give them the marks they are just rules to help the unit fight better. Just because my unit can reroll 1s and do extra damage near a general doesn't mean I have to paint them Khornate. Take the rule you like and you can generally justify it (within reason). 

 

Halberds

I don't have such a conclusive answer on Halberds. Again I think most people would advise you to avoid, but I would argue that they do have  a place. 

As I mentioned before, Warriors are an anvil unit so you really want those higher numbers and shields, in order to activate the defensive buffs. Once you hit a certain number of models (arguably 15+) it gets pretty difficult to make sure they all fight during the combat phase - using halberds resolves that.

Using halberds comes with the 4+ to wound however. That is not good at all, and without reroll to wounds you're looking at a significant damage drop off. This is why I mentioned before that marking your units to assist with damage output is important. A Khorne general near that 20+ Halberd unit is going to give them 2 attacks at 3+ (rerolling 1s) 3+, which if you can get all 20 models to fight is quite powerful. Slaanesh wouldn't be too bad either, but you'd need to give that unit one of the many reroll hits/wounds that you have available. Then if you can afford to add +1 attack in Bloodsecrator, or Khorne Battalion - then you're going to add a lot of value to a unit that is attacking in multiple ranks.

But much of this advice depends massively on your opponent. If you have more details about that we can tailor our responses further.

 

EDIT: Totally agree with the guy saying go with what you think is cool ;). That is what I am doing, with some 'counts as' with regard to Warriors as Chosen, and Undivided colour scheme on units which will always be marked. As a poster above said, if you like the look of greatblade warriors, or twin weapons, or halberds, go for it! They aren't all THAT different from each other, and with supporting elements they can all work.

Edited by Snakeb1te
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