mmimzie Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 9 hours ago, Mcthew said: As you say it's odd. Either this is badly worded or the choice to run mixed units is wrong. They're incompatible rules. FAQ here we come! (Seriously, GW are the Apple of tabletop games! So many bugs and so many updates, but the stuff sure is pretty!) no need for an FAQ answer because it already exist. Q: Some units can carry different weapon options, like spears or swords – can I build my unit (and my models) with different weapons? For example, 8 spears and 12 swords? A: It depends on the description; if the description says that the unit can be armed with different weapon options, you can only use one of the weapon options. If the description instead states that models from the unit can be armed with different weapon options, you can choose a mix of weapon options. 2 hours ago, Seraphina of the Seraphim said: I've been thinking about a Undivided based list, any ideas/critiques from the more tactically minded people here? RAVAGERS(2500) Heroes: Lord on Kardadrak(250) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband -Flames of Spite -Sword of Judgements(Ulgu) Chaos Sorcerer Lord(110) -Chaos Undivided -Bolstered by Hate Chaos Sorcerer Lord(110) -Chaos Undivided -Unquestioned Resolve Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore(260) -Chaos Undivided -Master of Deception Darkoath Warqueen(90) -Chaos Undivided -Favoured of the Pantheon Darkoath Chieftain(90) -Chaos Undivided -Eternal Vendetta Battleline: 40x Marauders(300) -Chaos Undivided 40x Marauders(300) -Chaos Undivided 20x Marauder Horsemen(360) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband 5x Chaos Knights(180) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband 5x Chaos Knights(180) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband 1x Chaos Chariot(120) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband Battalions: Ruinbringer Warband(140) I think i'd run the marauder horsemen as 5 man units. as you can charge with each unit and get d3 mortal wounds with each successful charge. Run them in lines, and they'll be like an old fashion bretonian style lance. From there i'd personally merge the two knight units into one 10 man squad as that one they can all swing at once to smash threw units. A chaos lord would not be out of place here as your knights are going to be rerolling saves and at a 3 wounds, and you undivided buff they are really durable. So they can take the double pile in both and survive what ever remains from your first activation, and then swing again with powered up lances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphina of the Seraphim Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, mmimzie said: I think i'd run the marauder horsemen as 5 man units. as you can charge with each unit and get d3 mortal wounds with each successful charge. Run them in lines, and they'll be like an old fashion bretonian style lance. From there i'd personally merge the two knight units into one 10 man squad as that one they can all swing at once to smash threw units. A chaos lord would not be out of place here as your knights are going to be rerolling saves and at a 3 wounds, and you undivided buff they are really durable. So they can take the double pile in both and survive what ever remains from your first activation, and then swing again with powered up lances. Right, everything you said about the Marauder Horsemen and Knights makes sense, but about that Lord. Wouldn't it be hard for a footslogging Lord to keep up with the Knights? Also, if it does make sense and I'm just being a dummy, what would you drop for the Lord? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Just now, Seraphina of the Seraphim said: Right, everything you said about the Marauder Horsemen and Knights makes sense, but about that Lord. Wouldn't it be hard for a footslogging Lord to keep up with the Knights? Also, if it does make sense and I'm just being a dummy, what would you drop for the Lord? The knights are definitly fast and i won't say there won't be times when you're going to struggle to keep him in position. that said you use the ability after the charge, so you just have to make sure the chaos lord is within ~12" from your target, and just don't charge the unit all the way in and save that for the pile in. However, having played similar armys it's few and far between that the foot sloggin general is struggling to keep up. For drops you have a few options: I would drop the chariot, it's abit lack luster. That said chariots are really cool. I like the 2 wizards as it gives you insurance for the powerful buff, most our spells are tough to cast (at a 7) from our lore. I think 7 is unreliable so maybe you could drop one. coooould drop the manticore. She's not bad, but you have lots of threats, and they want love and support. So she is weird as while she's not bad, she's also not going to be a one lady army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Host of the Everchosen Plaugetouched Warband (Nurgle) Hero = Archaon Unit 1: Chaos Lord Unit 2: Chaos Sorcerer Lord Unit 3: Varanguard Unit 4: Chaos Warriors (10) Unit 5: Chaos Warriors (5) Unit 6: Chaos Warriors (5) Unit 7: Chaos Warriors (5) Total: 2000 points Key points: - Lord can use ‘Spurred by the Gods’ to make a unit fight twice (incl Archaon) - Sorc Lord gives re-rolls to saves - Small units don’t have to take battle-shock tests due to Archaon’s rule. This combines well with Plaugetouched. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphina of the Seraphim Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 hours ago, mmimzie said: The knights are definitly fast and i won't say there won't be times when you're going to struggle to keep him in position. that said you use the ability after the charge, so you just have to make sure the chaos lord is within ~12" from your target, and just don't charge the unit all the way in and save that for the pile in. However, having played similar armys it's few and far between that the foot sloggin general is struggling to keep up. For drops you have a few options: I would drop the chariot, it's abit lack luster. That said chariots are really cool. I like the 2 wizards as it gives you insurance for the powerful buff, most our spells are tough to cast (at a 7) from our lore. I think 7 is unreliable so maybe you could drop one. coooould drop the manticore. She's not bad, but you have lots of threats, and they want love and support. So she is weird as while she's not bad, she's also not going to be a one lady army. What about something like this? RAVAGERS(2480) 1 CP Heroes: Lord on Kardadrak(250) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband -Flames of Spite -Sword of Judgements(Ulgu) Chaos Lord(110) -Chaos Undivided -Bolstered by Hate Chaos Sorcerer Lord(110) -Chaos Undivided -Mask of Darkness Chaos Sorcerer Lord(110) -Chaos Undivided -Unquestioned Resolve -Whispers of Chaos Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore(260) -Chaos Undivided -Master of Deception -Binding Damnation Darkoath Warqueen(90) -Chaos Undivided -Favoured of the Pantheon -Dimensional Blade(Ulgu) Darkoath Chieftain(90) -Chaos Undivided -Eternal Vendetta Battleline: 40x Marauders(300) -Chaos Undivided 40x Marauders(300) -Chaos Undivided 5x Marauder Horsemen(90) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband 5x Marauder Horsemen(90) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband 5x Marauder Horsemen(90) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband 5x Marauder Horsemen(90) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband 10x Chaos Knights(360) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband Battalions: Ruinbringer Warband(140) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizara Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 hey nice list. I only got to bring up one issue. Unquestionable resolve that you have on one of your Sorcerer lords, it can only be used by cultists. you dont have any in your list, granted you can summon them in for free as a ravager if you use the command ability but I just wanted to point that out. It lets you use a few different command abilities but only on cultists that are within range. So its kind of limited. Also i know everyone is praising these large 40 man blocks of Mauraders, however all these aura's that they can hand out require you to be "WHOLLY" within 12 inches. That is really hard to do for a large 40 man block, even more so the larger the bases. I think Mauraders are still fortunate to be on 25mm bases which helps, but I am going to tell you from experience (playing Blades of Khorne), that 12 inches is really hard to keep units completely in range. If one model of that unit is outside of the 12 inches, they can't benefit from the aura at all. Also I keep reading about khorne lists bring secrators and wrathmongers, again the secrators aren't a bad choice but wrathmongers have to baby sit the said small unit they want to give their buff to, its also wholly within and 12 inch range, so its hard to buff units especially larger units. So just trying to keep everyone mindful of this change. Some abilities say within range, other abilties wholly in. The aura's are rather limiting on large units, even units of 10 knights due to their large bases are going to be hard pressed to keep the entire unit in range of a mounted Lord. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeleFAZE Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 What weapon choice are people taking for their soulgrinders? The sword seems powerful, but the claw could have potential too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth criminal Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 12 hours ago, Patriarch said: I'm looking to build a pure everchosen liste. Archaon,3x3 varanguards, 1 guant summoner and maybe 1 endless spell. What cercle would be better? +1 dmg or "fly" to counter tarpit units? +1 damage because you hit very weak otherwise. You will have to use teleport and gaunt horde killing spell to counter screens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spears Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Looking at the fight again abilities on the lord and varanguard it seems that to use them the unit must be withing 3' of an enemy before they pile in a second time, is this also true for other factions double fight mechanics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blisterfeet Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 5 hours ago, Gibs said: Host of the Everchosen Plaugetouched Warband (Nurgle) Hero = Archaon Unit 1: Chaos Lord Unit 2: Chaos Sorcerer Lord Unit 3: Varanguard Unit 4: Chaos Warriors (10) Unit 5: Chaos Warriors (5) Unit 6: Chaos Warriors (5) Unit 7: Chaos Warriors (5) Total: 2000 points Key points: - Lord can use ‘Spurred by the Gods’ to make a unit fight twice (incl Archaon) - Sorc Lord gives re-rolls to saves - Small units don’t have to take battle-shock tests due to Archaon’s rule. This combines well with Plaugetouched. Thoughts? I've been looking at something similar @Gibs I've also been looking at the buff Khorne list idea mentioned earlier in this thread. Going to playtest them moving forward under both ravagers banner and host of everchosen. I also think that a cavalry centric army might also have some legs with or without Archaon I am not sure yet. I feel like having Archaon is a must but maybe the ability to have more cavalry/units might be stronger. Either way I am not committing to any list for definite yet as we have an FAQ coming and what looks good on paper and what's good on the table top are two different things 😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midjithero Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Spears said: Looking at the fight again abilities on the lord and varanguard it seems that to use them the unit must be withing 3' of an enemy before they pile in a second time, is this also true for other factions double fight mechanics? Yes, the Keeper of Secrets ability is 12” within KoS and 3” of enemy model. Not sure on other attack twice mechanics like the FEC or Grave Guard abilities though, but I’m certain it’s similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midjithero Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Smooth criminal said: +1 damage because you hit very weak otherwise. You will have to use teleport and gaunt horde killing spell to counter screens. Just be careful on the teleport...you want to be sure you stay within range of Archaon’s Aura as well...luckily he has such a huge base and an extended aura (18”) though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 7 hours ago, Seraphina of the Seraphim said: What about something like this? RAVAGERS(2480) 1 CP Heroes: Lord on Kardadrak(250) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband -Flames of Spite -Sword of Judgements(Ulgu) Chaos Lord(110) -Chaos Undivided -Bolstered by Hate Chaos Sorcerer Lord(110) -Chaos Undivided -Mask of Darkness Chaos Sorcerer Lord(110) -Chaos Undivided -Unquestioned Resolve -Whispers of Chaos Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore(260) -Chaos Undivided -Master of Deception -Binding Damnation Darkoath Warqueen(90) -Chaos Undivided -Favoured of the Pantheon -Dimensional Blade(Ulgu) Darkoath Chieftain(90) -Chaos Undivided -Eternal Vendetta Battleline: 40x Marauders(300) -Chaos Undivided 40x Marauders(300) -Chaos Undivided 5x Marauder Horsemen(90) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband 5x Marauder Horsemen(90) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband 5x Marauder Horsemen(90) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband 5x Marauder Horsemen(90) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband 10x Chaos Knights(360) -Chaos Undivided -Ruinbringer Warband Battalions: Ruinbringer Warband(140) This looks great. I do agree alittle with @Rizara, but I have played skaven where my battleshick immunity around my bells is 13" with little issue. It does change how you move your models and how you recover casualties. It just makes you have to think a but more about model plavement. Either way I think the list looks awesome. 7 hours ago, Gibs said: Host of the Everchosen Plaugetouched Warband (Nurgle) Hero = Archaon Unit 1: Chaos Lord Unit 2: Chaos Sorcerer Lord Unit 3: Varanguard Unit 4: Chaos Warriors (10) Unit 5: Chaos Warriors (5) Unit 6: Chaos Warriors (5) Unit 7: Chaos Warriors (5) Total: 2000 points Key points: - Lord can use ‘Spurred by the Gods’ to make a unit fight twice (incl Archaon) - Sorc Lord gives re-rolls to saves - Small units don’t have to take battle-shock tests due to Archaon’s rule. This combines well with Plaugetouched. Thoughts? Only concern might be the warrior seem like units with out a purpose? Warriors wanna be Inna big 20 block mixing weapons. This way they benefit from buffs better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Any idea to do/kitbash a Chaos Lord that stands out a bit vs a chaos warrior? The one at GW is meh and I don't want to buy another failcast... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, GeneralZero said: Any idea to do/kitbash a Chaos Lord that stands out a bit vs a chaos warrior? The one at GW is meh and I don't want to buy another failcast... The one on the GW site is a plastic kit, and I think looks quite great. You could also modify the chaos space Marine chaos Lord that came out this year. You can check if models are plastic or fine cast in the product description a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccconner777 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) On 12/15/2019 at 5:16 AM, Graftonianman said: “Each” references “a unit” and not “models”. Not the best choice of wording, but this is GW. Units get one weapon option. Grammatically speaking your claim is incorrect, "a unit" is singular, that and the sentence structure suggests that "each" refers to "models". But more pertinent i think is that they specifically word it in a different way than wording on other warscrolls that force you to take all the same weapons. So i see no reason to believe you cant mix weapons unless they specify that in the faq. Edited December 16, 2019 by ccconner777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcthew Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) So the GW warscroll builder has finally been updated for Slaves to Darkness. Yay. But Chaos Warriors do not give you a choice of mixed units or a per model choice, as Tzangors do. Only a unit choice. Boo! So either the warscroll is wrong (or some players' interpretations are), or the builder is wrong. Place your bets everyone! Edited December 16, 2019 by Mcthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccconner777 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, Benkei said: Do you guys think running Chosen is decent now with all the rerolls? I want to give them a try. I thought they were redundant with the warshrine buffs available and cause warriors got stronger. I played 3 games over the weekend and my chaos warriors just didnt hit as hard as I'd like. Lack of rend really holds them back despite the rerolls and offensive buffs. I think im going to try to fit some chosen in next time to take advantage of 1 rend and mortals on 6's. They wont be as survivable, but hopefully whatever they hit will take good damage and die quicker, instead of getting the chance to keep hitting back for 2 or 3 turns of combat. Plus combining with warriors or could give your opponent an interesting choice. If you hit first with chosen and they buff your warriors your opponent then has to decide whether they attack your squishier more valuable chosen, or your tankier warriors who are now rerolling hits baseline and rerolling wounds from the chosen buff and havent attacked yet in the combat phase. Also should be noted that chosen move 6", not 5", so they do maneuver a bit easier than warriors too. And you can always just get chosen up to warrior survivability by giving them the save rerolls from a sorceror lord. Edited December 16, 2019 by ccconner777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizara Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 my bet is that the Chaos warriors are like they always have been, all using the same type of weapon. meaning you either go with sword and board, double swords, great weapons, or halberds. Mixxing them would be sweet but they have never been like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The World Tree Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 40 minutes ago, Mcthew said: So the GW warscroll builder has finally been updated for Slaves to Darkness. Yay. But Chaos Warriors do not give you a choice of mixed units or a per model choice, as Tzangors do. Only a unit choice. Boo! So either the warscroll is wrong (or some players' interpretations are), or the builder is wrong. Place your bets everyone! Scroll builder is not a reliable rules source. It is fantastic but it is not the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midjithero Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 So, one thing I haven’t seen in either thread (unless I missed it).... What spell do people think will benefit Archaon the most? My list is Archy, Varanguard, Sorc, Warshrine and Warriors. I was thinking either the Teleport or Attack last spells, but not sure which will be more beneficial. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charleston Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Reading some Nurgle Lists around the Web, I wonder why noone wants to include a Harbringer of Decay. The CA gives the Nurgle 5++ in a 7" Aura. Seems to me quite desireble, especially as with all that damage reflection we want to tank as much as possible. With the Rune Shields we effectivly get rid of about a half of all mortals with it. Also, I wonder that I haven´t see people concider 20-40 Marauders to teleport for a turn 1 teleport. Against Armies that have to protect their backline Supporters, this allows to do some harm and in best case delay the opponents movement as he has to deal with the marauders before loosing any heroes. If the spells fails, or the opponents conciders this tactic during deployment, there is still a wall of chaff left. The teleport spell can also become handy and yet it is no shame to not use it as both our sorcerer warscrolls have great signature spells. This whole thing is also independent to marks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcthew Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, The World Tree said: Scroll builder is not a reliable rules source. It is fantastic but it is not the rules. Agreed - it is not. However in the absence of an FAQ to an interpreted warscroll, it is a qualifier. The default then is no mixed units until either an FAQ comes out or the builder is changed, whichever comes first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The World Tree Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 It is not a qualifier. The only source of context are the written rules. Personally I think as written it is mixed, but intent is not mixed. You can only go by your interpretation of the rules on the page (Sadly!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcthew Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, The World Tree said: It is not a qualifier. The only source of context are the written rules. Personally I think as written it is mixed, but intent is not mixed. You can only go by your interpretation of the rules on the page (Sadly!) The warscroll builder is as much a GW product as the warscroll itself. Yes it can be flawed but no more than warscrolls. The rules over unit variations can be interpreted on the warscroll while the variations in the builder can not. If the builder is wrong, it will be changed. If it is not, without an FAQ you can read it is as no unit variations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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