AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[ChaosUndivided]

Yeah i was saying same thing earlier, that there is never enuff points to take all the stuff i wish i could. Its like you gotta skimp out in one area to be good in another. 

@Ravinsild If you're still assembling and painting army im gonna assume you don't have a huge collection of different models to change your list around much but it kinda becomes a necessity over time.

This is a list im considering. Its got 20× Warriors, with a Warshrine, but only 5x Knights used for screen, and 1x Cultist of choice to camp backfield objectives.

The Manticore follows the 6x Varanguard around for the Binding Damnation on turn that they attack twice and a constant 2 up save rerolling 1s to keep them alive until they killed as many heroes/monsters as possible.

The Warqueen cost as much as Marauders do wich she can summon for free and slingshot across field for a command, which she as well can be teleported by Sorc beforehand. Warqueen and the Purp Sun can be swapped for a Lord on Foot and Cogs tho.

I went EQ cuz of the big sink on Warriors and the Varanguard are not going to be fighting battleline units. The Purp Sun is just there for lols but im trying to pop that thing out of Manticore while down field to help the Varanguard.

 - Army Faction: Slaves to Darkness
     - Army Type: Ravagers
     - Grand Strategy: Defend What’s Ours
LEADERS
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (270)**
     - General
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
     - Command Traits: Master of Magic
     - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome
     - Spells: Binding Damnation
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (135)**
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
     - Command Traits: Bolstered by Hate
     - Spells: Mask of Darkness
Darkoath Warqueen (90)**
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
     - Command Traits: Unquestioned Resolve
BATTLELINE
Chaos Warriors (400)*
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
     - Chaos Hand Weapon and Chaos Runeshield
Iron Golems (75)*
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Chaos Knights (170)**
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
     - Ensorcelled Weapon and Chaos Runeshield
BEHEMOTH
Chaos Warshrine (215)**
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
     - Prayers: Curse
OTHER
Varanguard (560)**
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
     - Ensorcelled Weapon and Warpsteel Shield
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Purple Sun of Shyish (70)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Expert Conquerors
**Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1985/2000
 

[Latetotheparty]

My first battle against SBGL is upcoming. Would you say to bring all  casters, or none at all?

I’m struggling coming up with a 1500 points army. Especially in the new setting (with which I’m totally unfamiliar).

[Latetotheparty]

This is the list I came up with. It’s probably hot garbage. I tried finding a spot for both Be’Lakor and the Varanguard. 
 

Army Faction: Slaves to Darkness
    - Army Type: Despoilers
    - Grand Strategy: Demonstration of Strength
    - Triumphs: Indomitable

LEADER

1 x Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Paragon of Ruin
    - Daemonic Axe and Malefic Talons
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

1 x Chaos Lord (120)*
    - Reaperblade and Daemonbound Steel
    - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

1 x Chaos Sorcerer Lord (135)*
    - Artefacts: Arcane Tome
    - Spells: Binding Damnation
    - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

BATTLELINE

10 x Chaos Marauders (90)*
    - Icon Bearer
    - Barbarian Drummer
    - Marauder Chieftain
    - Barbarian Axe and Darkwood Shield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

5 x Chaos Knights (170)*
    - Standard Bearer
    - Hornblower
    - Doom Knight
    - Ensorcelled Weapon and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

20 x Chaos Warriors (400)*
    - Aspiring Champion
    - Standard Bearer
    - Hornblower
    - Chaos Halberd and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

OTHER

1 x Mindstealer Sphiranx (95)*

3 x Varanguard (280)*
    - Daemonforged Blade and Warpsteel Shield
    - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: (1500/2000)

What I hope it does is give me control options by reducing movement and dictating the order of fights, and allowing me to fight double at some stages. 
What are your thoughts?

[Salyx]

On 8/2/2022 at 11:20 PM, Latetotheparty said:

This is the list I came up with. It’s probably hot garbage. I tried finding a spot for both Be’Lakor and the Varanguard. 
 

Army Faction: Slaves to Darkness
    - Army Type: Despoilers
    - Grand Strategy: Demonstration of Strength
    - Triumphs: Indomitable

LEADER

1 x Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Paragon of Ruin
    - Daemonic Axe and Malefic Talons
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

1 x Chaos Lord (120)*
    - Reaperblade and Daemonbound Steel
    - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

1 x Chaos Sorcerer Lord (135)*
    - Artefacts: Arcane Tome
    - Spells: Binding Damnation
    - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

BATTLELINE

10 x Chaos Marauders (90)*
    - Icon Bearer
    - Barbarian Drummer
    - Marauder Chieftain
    - Barbarian Axe and Darkwood Shield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

5 x Chaos Knights (170)*
    - Standard Bearer
    - Hornblower
    - Doom Knight
    - Ensorcelled Weapon and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

20 x Chaos Warriors (400)*
    - Aspiring Champion
    - Standard Bearer
    - Hornblower
    - Chaos Halberd and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

OTHER

1 x Mindstealer Sphiranx (95)*

3 x Varanguard (280)*
    - Daemonforged Blade and Warpsteel Shield
    - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: (1500/2000)

What I hope it does is give me control options by reducing movement and dictating the order of fights, and allowing me to fight double at some stages. 
What are your thoughts?

In my opinion - or what I would do- you could drop the Sphiranx ( not very reliable strike last, no Combat Power) and the Chaos Lord ( too slow to Support the right units) and you have 215 points for shenanigans. 

How about another Demon Prince? Or just giving your Sorcerer a Manticor? Or you just throw out the Sorcerer and include Belakor as planned. Though for that you would have to downgrade the Marauders to Cultists. 

[Latetotheparty]

Thanks for the reply. With the match being tomorrow and we already sharing lists, I’m keeping it as is. But I’m sure I’ll run into those issues. I just really want to try those units out 😛 

I hope I can use bloodslick ground to delay his army enough that the lord can keep up with the Varanguard. 

[Latetotheparty]

Well it didn’t go super well. I goofed by charging first turn with my knights, out of reach of all the buffs. 
 

the Varanguard are super durable, but didn’t manage to kill the vampire-centaur. 
 

we came to turn three when I was out of time. It was really close up to this part, but if we would have gone on I would have withered away. 
 

Next time I’m going to try allot of dp’s and melee.

[ChaosUndivided]

The list i posted above morphed into this by game night:

 - Army Faction: Slaves to Darkness
     - Army Type: Ravagers
     - Grand Strategy: Defend What’s Ours
LEADERS
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (270)**
     - General
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
     - Command Traits: Master of Magic
     - Spells: Binding Damnation
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (135)**
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
     - Command Traits: Bolstered by Hate
     - Spells: Levitate
Chaos Lord (120)**
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
     - Command Traits: Skilled Leader
     - Reaperblade and Daemonbound Steel
     - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome
     - Spells: Mask of Darkness
BATTLELINE
Chaos Warriors (400)*
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
     - Chaos Hand Weapon and Chaos Runeshield
Iron Golems (150)*
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Untamed Beasts (70)**
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
BEHEMOTH
Chaos Warshrine (215)**
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
     - Prayers: Curse
OTHER
Varanguard (560)**
     - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
     - Ensorcelled Weapon and Warpsteel Shield
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Purple Sun of Shyish (70)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Expert Conquerors
**Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1990/2000

My opponent played Slaanesh but was super slow so we ran outta time before turn 3.

We played Prize of Gallet scenario, i choose to go second which gave him an 4 ez VP as he took the only objective and ez tactic. 

I had deployed tight so everything was in Warshrine bubble and the aura of my 3 heroes. He charged me head on with 2x 20 Demonets pinning my whole army in deployment zone.

I quickly realize a blob of 6 Varanguard are much better in Empty Throne as that 6 inch pile in lets them rotate around enemy units usually allowing them to fight on all sides vs multiple enemies. It took both rounds of combat to kill them all. The big blob of Iron Golems melee attacks are pitiful and it took a round of shooting on my turn to finish the other unit of Demonets off. The Varanguard proceed to evaporate his unit of Bounty Hunter Seekers.

He wins rolloff turn 2 and goes first again. By then my 2 big units of infantry had piled in different directions and left a opening in the middle where my Warshrine was. He gets a luck charge off with 10 Twin Souls who fought twice thanks to Keeper of Secrets and 30 damage 2 attacks x2 nuke the shrine.

...that took hours to get through so it was time to pack up. Had we kept playing im pretty sure the tables would have turned as his entire backfield was empty and my EQ warriors barely had a scratch on them. The Varanguard were free to pick a target to charge and double attack at that point. I woulda chewed thru his best units and swarmed from every direction with GV, altho he did have summoning i dont think it woulda helped much.

In conclusion im probably gonna try 2x 3Varanguard instead of a blob of 6 next time. Im glad i took the Lord on Foot over Warqueen as his command ability is just too good, but it was hard to position him where i needed with only 3 heroes i struggled to keep everyone within chaos aura. The army wide aura of tzeentch + Warshrine definitely amped up the staying power of everything but with only 3 heroes that aura is hard to maintain. The Iron Golems are good deck chair sitters but their dmg output is null regardless of how many there is, except in shooting phase where they were surprisingly efficient. The new battleplans and tactics result in some really hard calls to make and the right choice is not always the most obvious one now.

[Archion89]

Are chaos warhounds good screens?  10' movement and the 6" run seems to be quite fast.  Any reason not to use them that role?

Edited August 30, 2022 by Archion89

[Agent of Chaos]

A screen is pretty much what warhounds were made to be. Was better pre-coherency where they could really stretch out but you can still put a decent screen across. 80 points is about as cheap as it gets for 10 wounds and a 16" move so definitely dont see a reason not to use them that way.

[LordDave]

Seems to me hounds and untamed beasts pretty much do the same thing so that’s the choice.  Personally prefer hounds, but that’s mainly for fluffy reasons, in terms of other things…

- Hounds have a faster move built in (beasts get a pregame move but that’s a one off), so if by some miracle they are still alive later on they can be useful for grabbing unguarded objectives etc.

- beasts are StD so presumably synergise better with other buffs, but as both are there to soak up initial charges and probably die in the process not sure that matters much

- beasts are 10 points cheaper and can be battleline (which may or may not be good) 

- hounds have a bigger base so cover more board - which if the main role is to be a screen then for me this is the main thing

- hounds are allies so can impact on list building if you want tot ale other allies 

- from a hobby/practical perspective hounds are slightly cheaper models and potentially more versatile as can be used as coalition in god specific armies, on the other hand if playing ravagers you can recycle dead beasts as summoned units I suppose 

[Neverchosen]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/09/01/nova-open-reveals-bring-ruin-to-the-realms-with-this-slaves-to-darkness-launch-set/


Have we had any leaks for Chosen Statlines? I am much to tempted by this box but I feel like 2 units of Chosen feels overkill. Hopefully they have decent range on those axes!

[ibel]

17 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

Have we had any leaks for Chosen Statlines? I am much to tempted by this box but I feel like 2 units of Chosen feels overkill. Hopefully they have decent range on those axes!

Or they come in Unit of 10 with less Points for 5 and same Statline AND they can become batteline (#GalvanicVeterans)

I mean they Shows us 6 different Models so.... A Unit of 5 didnt make sense for me. A unit of 10 makes more for me.

Maybe a Unit of 10 with same Statline (Maybe with a save of 3+ would be nize) and this for mhmm 240 Points ?!

[ibel]

17 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

2 units of Chosen feels Overkill

PS: I would say i Maybe buy the Box 2 times i like the choosen. But i dont like the Ogroids, didt we know anything of them (moren than that they have 4 Wounds)

[Rors]

4 hours ago, ibel said:

Or they come in Unit of 10 with less Points for 5 and same Statline AND they can become batteline (#GalvanicVeterans)

I mean they Shows us 6 different Models so.... A Unit of 5 didnt make sense for me. A unit of 10 makes more for me.

Maybe a Unit of 10 with same Statline (Maybe with a save of 3+ would be nize) and this for mhmm 240 Points ?!

More likely the unit is now multiples of 6 in the soon to be released book and anyone who owned 5 or 10 will need to buy more.

[ChaosUndivided]

The Ogroid warscroll was already leaked they have 5 wounds, 6 move, 5+ save, and 2 weapon options a falchion and shield 3/3/-1/2 and +1 save or great axe 3/3/-2/3. They can pack a punch but seem a lil squishy to me.

Also the leaks from the up coming battletome appeared to show Chosen in units of 5 atill.

[Agent of Chaos]

Based off the 10 Chosen models in the box only coming with one standard and one musician would probably indicate a unit of 10. Then again perhaps there is a second set of standard/musician on the sprue but that would be unusual for a box release like this. Its not beyond GW to expect 2 units of 5 but only give one std/mus in the box (still better than none at all AKA knights/warriors).

If chaos warriors are to remain an anvil type unit in the new tome we can probably assume that chosen are a hammer unit, likely with the same or slightly improved stats and maybe a different special rule. 

Whatever the case Im pretty keen to add a unit of them plus the ogroids to my existing force so will be picking up this box. New DP warscroll seems a massive downgrade and I already have 3 so straight to market place he goes!

[Wraith]

Overall I am very excited about the upcoming releases. My greatest disappointment being that the Horns of Hashut are not actually Chaos Dwarves. Missed opportunity there, GW. My greatest worry about the releases is the impact this is going to have on my bank account.

How will the Legion of the First Prince work now that it has mortals? No more bringing in daemon all sorts? Enternus can get extra command points. Legionaries can prevent orders. Centurion can (occasionally) cause opponent to fight last. Furies give Enternus benefits, suggesting furies play a big part in the LotFP. So are we looking at a control focused sub-faction?

Thoughts anyone?

 

 

 

[Lord Krungharr]

I have no coherent emotional response to the new StD release.  The Chosen look pretty cool, the Theridons are okay but I might as well just use Bullgors (unless the Theridons get some good synergistic buffs with allegiance stuff).  Daemon Prince looks to be in the toilet now so that's not exciting.

If there's a way to use my 4 chariots as battleline, and Soul Grinder isn't trash, and mind-cats stay the same or better....just want a clear easy path to a complete army even if I have to use allies (like a One-Eyed Grunnock).  Mutalith spam would be fun so hopefully they still exist and are less crappy generally, and there's a StD monster helper subfaction.  That would be satisfactory.

[JackStreicher]

The new Chaos Models are fine, yet they're not hyping me.
I'm interested in the new Demon Prince, though not hyped as well.

However I like that the narrative moves away from Archaon the Ever-Plot-Armoured to a Civil War with Be'lakor.

I was thinking about puting some Chosen on Discs of Tzeentch, might look sick!

[Wraith]

On 9/7/2022 at 5:45 AM, Lord Krungharr said:

I have no coherent emotional response to the new StD release.  The Chosen look pretty cool, the Theridons are okay but I might as well just use Bullgors (unless the Theridons get some good synergistic buffs with allegiance stuff).  Daemon Prince looks to be in the toilet now so that's not exciting.

If there's a way to use my 4 chariots as battleline, and Soul Grinder isn't trash, and mind-cats stay the same or better....just want a clear easy path to a complete army even if I have to use allies (like a One-Eyed Grunnock).  Mutalith spam would be fun so hopefully they still exist and are less crappy generally, and there's a StD monster helper subfaction.  That would be satisfactory.

I am expecting to see a significant rework of the rules. We need to be positive and see it as a chance to explore new possibilities. Have to wait and see what they have done.

 

22 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

The new Chaos Models are fine, yet they're not hyping me.
I'm interested in the new Demon Prince, though not hyped as well.

However I like that the narrative moves away from Archaon the Ever-Plot-Armoured to a Civil War with Be'lakor.

I was thinking about puting some Chosen on Discs of Tzeentch, might look sick!

 

Yes, it seems the narrative of rivalry between Be'lakor and Archaon is going t be played up. That will be fun. I wonder if the Darkoath keyword will be given some rules? I have noticed that those Darkoath Savages have been selling out. Could be they get some attention from the designers in the new battletome?

[Koala]

Man, i sure would love a way to convincingly play a horde of barbarians (as opposed to the well armed and organised legions of Archaon/Belakor). 

Maybe instead of "Marks" have units bound to their "hero" on setup, as it was in the old realm of chaos book? 

[Grimrock]

I'm not really expecting any massive overhaul of the rules. Typically GW seems to keep the changes relatively small and focused to make things easier to test and not risk breaking things. It's not unheard of to get a big change, Nurgle for example got a huge rework, but those are usually the exception not the rule. With that being said, I'm hoping for/expecting a few changes:

1. Marauders getting nerfed heavily. Their abilities never really made much sense to begin with, and considering they're not getting a resculpt I'd expect them to get de-emphasized. Personally I'd be good with this, have them lose the rend and the charge rule and go down to like 75 points for 10 models. Then they can take their rightful place as cheap chaff.

2. Cultists getting a buff across the board with an associated price hike. The recent rotmire creed are actually a really solid unit, and if GW wants to start selling the cultist boxes to AoS exclusive players then that's going to have to be what they aim for.

3. Chaos warriors, chosen, and knights all get a buff to make them the rightful core of the army, if for no other reason than to sell the new models they're making.

4. Massively nerf/remove Daemonic Power, Oracular Vision, and the undivided prayer on the warshrine. These abilities are far too powerful and warp the faction heavily around them. You can't have good base stats when you have re-roll everything on a stick, but at the same time if those fail to go off or the buffs get sniped you're pretty much hosed in game. Not fun for either player and pretty much impossible to balance around, they gotta go.

5. Finally I don't expect it, but I'm really hoping the Slaughterbrute and Mutalith Vortex Beast get a huge buff. These models are far too cool to have had such absolute garbage rules for so long. I've wanted to pick one or two up for ages but I just couldn't justify it with how bad they were. Hopefully GW wises up and makes them solid centerpiece units. 

In the end though there's not much point in speculating. We won't see the book for at least a few more months and honestly GW is really hard to predict. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Grimrock

[JackStreicher]

I'd rejoin AoS for a second chance if they reworked S2D so they would work like Chaos Warriors (Be'lakor) works in Total War Warhammer III.
Everything else is just a miss to me. - Sadly the book hasn't leaked yet

[Lord Krungharr]

I mean, Skaven are a good reason to rejoin-rebuild your AoS no?!?!

But I do hope for more clear differences in subfactions, especially with Belakor doing more of his own thing these days.  I second the above notion of buffing the Slaughterbrute/Mutalith AND the Soul Grinder.  Really hoping for a Chaos Forge subfaction....with Dwarves!

[Latetotheparty]

Here’s to marauders staying good in the upcoming book. Just finished these fourty savages.