Jump to content

AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion


Overread
 Share

Recommended Posts

The points changes will come with the new battletome.

Personally i only take Archaon out for local tournament games. I find most people dont enjoy playing against him. So i typically just stick to Varanguard for casual games. I like Empty Throne for obvious reasons but in this new season Ravagers will probably be my go to sub faction, because if the Varanguard are in Empty Throne they wont be eligible for Bounty Hunters. Also being able to summon Veterans on any board edge every round can be used to contest Proving Grounds. Also it gives me a chance to tie up any enemy Bounty Hunters prior to the Veterans appearing.

But i have been wondering what changes are coming with the new battletome. The Damned Legions leaked in the table of contents images appears to cover the lore of all the subfactions we currently have. Just going down the list we have...

Archaon the Everchosen aka Host of Everchosen

Belakore the Dark Master aka Legion of the First Prince (it really should just be folded into S2D proper)

Champions of the Chaos Tribes aka Ravagers

Masters of the Dark Arts aka Cabalist

Wrought in Iron and Hatred aka (presumably) Despoilers 

Ogeroids Unleashed, which is all new.

The Lost and the Damned aka Empty Throne (im kinda guessing here but this phrase usually refers to specifically Chaos Warriors and Knights)

And the final damned legion, Warbands of the Eight Points aka Idolaters.

Seems like everything is still intact and im not expecting any major shake ups rules wise here, however, even a tweak here or there could have a big impact on the competitive viability of any one of these subfactions.

The future of Cultist is unclear to me because their current points/rules seems ripe for a big change. 

The Deamon Prince change was quite large but also needed. The Khorne prince was a op npe. The always fights first was also jank and the real reason list with 5, even 6, DP where popping up. If all of them get to sink their sub-par attacks into the same unit/model before that unit gets to fight back its either dead or almost dead by then. Not very interactive or fun and probably not intended either.

The real burning question for me is what changes will occur to the Auras of Chaos. Tzeentch is my go to aura, rerolling ones in a save stacking meta is incredible. Just math wise its crazy powerful but i dont see this surviving the battletome update. If its a flat +1 to save rolls it wont be nearly as potent with all the +1 saves we already have to pass around.

I typically build my list around the auras to balance out between tankiness and offensive power. If they change the auras up theres a chance some units get shelved for the foreseeable future. Currently with the new GHB rules i think their is still play in most of the army in a casual sense but competitively the internal balance of the army will weigh heavily on the new battletome and could really swing things.

 

Edited by ChaosUndivided
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:

The real burning question for me is what changes will occur to the Auras of Chaos. Tzeentch is my go to aura, rerolling ones in a save stacking meta is incredible. Just math wise its crazy powerful but i dont see this surviving the battletome update. If its a flat +1 to save rolls it wont be nearly as potent with all the +1 saves we already have to pass around.

I typically build my list around the auras to balance out between tankiness and offensive power. If they change the auras up theres a chance some units get shelved for the foreseeable future. Currently with the new GHB rules i think their is still play in most of the army in a casual sense but competitively the internal balance of the army will weigh heavily on the new battletome and could really swing things

Yeah the million dollar question is how all the various buffs play out. I feel like a lot of players have been hoping for units that are strong on their own without needing to count on a spell that could fail or a hero that can be sniped out. I'd love to see better stats on the warriors and knights (like a base 3+ save, add a rend or two depending on the weapons) and have the buffs disappear entirely. Maybe a small bonus for their marks like in 40k at the most but no more auras or buffing spells. Let the sorcerer's and warhrines be selfish and only cast offensive spells/prayers like any glory seeking, power mad psychopath would. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Ravagers seems pretty potent in this new GHB.  The ability to march onto the edges with marauders in order to grab many of the battle tactics and objectives seems real strong. Endless spell horrorghast combined with all the -1 bravery debuff banners among our units seems like a good combo.  Expert conqueror chaos warriors seem good too.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has anyone tried chaos warriors with the new edition? I was about to try them but unfortunately had to cancel my game

I feel like they're probably in a better place than they've been in a long time. Attacking with two ranks makes them a lot less pillow fisted. In this edition I see a few synergy options to make them a great unit to grind out combats.

Any priest with curse makes all the extra attacks way better, and you can pump those numbers to the moon in khorne. With the right buffs there's probably no other unit in the game they can't tear apart, although it's such a slow deathstar that it will have the same problem Gotrek does. Still, there's probably a happy medium where they make a fantastic center for the battle line.

Tzeentch units are super durable and combo well with a purple sun to make up for their lack of rend.

Anyone's experience running them with the new rules would be appreciated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Rors said:

Anyone's experience running them with the new rules would be appreciated.

While GV gives them a bit of boost in terms of damage, they will often die twice as fast vs enemy Bounty Hunters, this is big. My brother's Saurus Warriors were actually winning atrition combat yesterday vs my Chaos Warriors, and they cost less. Tough I will note my play and list wasn't the best, and his was better optimised.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you guys know if darkoath warqueens can take a mark of chaos or not? Wahapedia doesnt list MARK OF CHAOS as a keyword, but the warscroll builder lets me add a mark. I tried to check the StD errata, but it says nothing about this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, JackOfBlades said:

Do you guys know if darkoath warqueens can take a mark of chaos or not? Wahapedia doesnt list MARK OF CHAOS as a keyword, but the warscroll builder lets me add a mark. I tried to check the StD errata, but it says nothing about this.

See the "Cultists of the Dark Gods" entry on the main page for S2D on Wahapedia. It describes it.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been trying to squeeze the Warqueen in Ravagers list myself. The +3 on charge command is impressive combo with the Marauders charge ability. If she is near edge of table she can summon on the field next to her and tag them in following phase. As it stands now you can choose to make summoned units GV or not depending on the Mark you give them which you can choose then. There is no caveat that they need to have her Mark or the Generals, this adds some nice flexibility if your going after a proving grounds or not.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fellow STDs, which one do you like the most =>

 

Tank The Everchosen

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Despoilers
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presenece
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Archaon the Everchosen (860)
- Aura of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Binding Damnation
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- General
- Axe
- Command Trait: Lightning Reflexes
- Artefact: Armour of Tortured Souls
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battleline

Units
8 x Iron Golems (75)*
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
8 x Iron Golems (75)*
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
8 x Iron Golems (75)*
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
3 x Varanguard (280)**
- Ensorcelled Weapon and Warpsteel Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
3 x Varanguard (280)**
- Ensorcelled Weapon and Warpsteel Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
1 x Slaves to Darkness Chaos Spawn (55)**
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Endless Spells & Invocations
Purple Sun of Shyish (70)

Core Battalions
*Expert Conquerors
**Bounty Hunters

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 87
Drops: 8
 

Or

 

Fear The Everchosen

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Despoilers
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presenece
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Archaon the Everchosen (860)
- Aura of Chaos: Khorne
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- General
- Axe
- Command Trait: Lord of Terror
- Artefact: Armour of Tortured Souls
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battleline
9 x The Unmade (75)*
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
9 x The Unmade (75)*
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
9 x The Unmade (75)*
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Units
3 x Varanguard (280)**
- Ensorcelled Weapon and Warpsteel Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
3 x Varanguard (280)**
- Ensorcelled Weapon and Warpsteel Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
1 x Mindstealer Sphiranx (95)**

Endless Spells & Invocations
Horrorghast (40)

Core Battalions
*Expert Conquerors
**Bounty Hunters

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 95
Drops: 8
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was running the Horrorghast in a bravery debuff list with Archaon and Brave debuff friends 2nd Circle Varangaurd.  PLus all the other -1 bravery banners.  Getting the horrorghast out is pivotal and against any spell dom army (my opponent was Thanqual) that tactic quickly crumbled.  But if you can make sure it goes off it could be good... just didnt happen for me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have yet to really play a full game with new GHB rules but im not sold on Expert Conq or Bounty Hunters.

I like to play list with Warriors and Knights casually as a "classic" S2D themed army but i will also play cheap skew stuff from time to time. I really dont see the point of putting a min size unit in either of these new battalions tho. If im taking 20 Warriors then i would consider EC but im also gonna be tempted to bring a Warshrine to negate some of that double damage. The more damage you're potentially gonna take the better a 6+ ward looks. Then for the second unit in EC im taking something fast like Untamed Beast or Marauders to play the back field to jump on any objective turned Proving Ground. 

I been making list with 10x Knights and 6x Varanguard as Bounty Hunters. The Knights with their mount attacks really add up. Sure their not great but the sheer number means something is gonna hit for double dmg. I shy away from 3x Varanguard units cuz as soon as you lose one dude they feel gimp, altho it makes a lot more sense in an Archaon list. The problem i see here is that a unit like Varanguard needs to kill the opponents biggest baddest threats not their battleline. If they get tied up fighting battleline then my opponent has essentially made a successful screen or otherwise just distracted me from using my units appropriately.

Right now it seems like there just isnt enuff space to squeeze everything i want into any list. Just about every unit in the faction needs to be babysat by multiple buff bots to crank it up enuff to actually do what its supposed to do, which is pretty much why all these "competitive" list just double down on a few clutch models and skimp out on everything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I played a game last knight against Slyvaneth and I don't see knights really having a place in lists. 4+ armor save just doesn't cut it for defense and you need to put so many buffs on them to make their output reliable that it's not points efficient.

Warriors make great anvils, a block of 20 held up Ariel for 3 turns, but they're really difficult to position. They're slow and while we have a teleport, they also need to stay in the auras of our heros.

Khorne DP was as always MVP.

This edition I've found that the weakness with the book is the same as last edition, a lack of rend and damage. I had hunter knights and it didn't really help them, perhaps in other match ups.

Outside of Archaon and or Varangaurd lists I don't think we have the tools for competitive play. With the new book around the corner I'm going to be putting mine on the self until it comes out to focus on my Night Haunt.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I stated right off the top it was casual list building. Knights never really been competitive but i still find them useful, your paying for mobility and if there Tzeentch marked they make good screens. Using a Khorne Dp as a crutch doesnt really add anything to the conversation. It seema any talk of strategy or tactics is stifled by parroting the same talking points over and over. I was more interested in opinions regarding the use of battalions cuz 1 drop seems better to me atm, or possibly leaning heavy into Conq or Bounty and going 3 drop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think StD have some of the best options for both bataillons. 

Marauders for Bounty Hunters and Chaos Warriors for Conquerors. 20 Warriors of Tzeentch can hold one point forever. Marauders can be teleported to assassinate another GV unit. 

Moreover, the GV rule makes Ravagers a very good faction since you can create Galletian Veterans every round, so no proving ground is save. 

I think the New bataillons just offer so many advantage that you should always take them. ImO it is worth more than 1-dropping.

However, you do not need both. Having a one-drop with two Chaos Warrior Conquerors is as a three-drop is a good compromise. 

  • Like 1
  • LOVE IT! 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Warriors is you are strongly encouraged to reinforce to keep stacking the armor. A unit of 20 is 400 points, two units of 20 is 800, then you want a sorcerer behind them. For half your points, you can hold two points on the battlefield pretty much for the whole game. This means they can't just objectives camp because the opponent will just ignore them and have an extra 1k of points to take the other objectives. So you need to push them up to challenge objectives at which point M5 is a really limiting factor.

Warriors are good but expenses units that lack power projection are always going to be challenging.

Ravager lists don't do one drop well because you need to spam heros. That said, I think Ravagers is a better subfaction for warriors because it shaws up their issue with board control. Since you can't one drop a ravager list anyway, the GV battalion makes sense for them.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what I’m hearing is that my list sucks?

Army Faction: Slaves to Darkness
    - Army Type: Ravagers
    - Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence

LEADER

1 x Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (225)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Bolstered by Hate
    - Artefacts: Cloak of the Relentless Conqueror
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

1 x Chaos Sorcerer Lord (135)*
    - Command Traits: Master of Magic
    - Artefacts: Arcane Tome
    - Spells: Whispers of Chaos
    - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

1 x Chaos Lord (120)*
    - Command Traits: Flames of Spite
    - Reaperblade and Daemonbound Steel
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

1 x Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)**
    - Daemonic Axe and Malefic Talons
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

BATTLELINE

20 x Chaos Warriors (400)**
    - Aspiring Champion
    - 2 x Hornblower
    - 4 x Standard Bearer
    - Chaos Hand Weapon and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

5 x Chaos Knights (170)**
    - Doom Knight
    - Standard Bearer
    - Hornblower
    - Cursed Lance and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

5 x Chaos Knights (170)**
    - Doom Knight
    - Standard Bearer
    - Hornblower
    - Cursed Lance and Chaos Runeshield
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

BEHEMOTH

1 x Chaos Warshrine (215)**
    - Prayers: Heal
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

OTHER

5 x Chosen (145)*
    - Exalted Champion
    - Icon Bearer
    - Skull Drummer
    - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

1 x Fomoroid Crusher (100)**

1 x Fomoroid Crusher (100)**

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Warlord
    - Magnificent

**Chaos Warband
    - Unified

TOTAL POINTS: (1990/2000)

Haven’t gotten to play with it quite yet sadly… but I’m in the middle of building and painting it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It doesn't suck at all!

At the local club you'll have a great time.

I've not used fomoroids but I think in this edition they'll be really interesting. Cheap access to roars and stomps that can't be stopped this edition.

When you pull off the combo and have your warriors fight twice into a unit the war shrine has cursed with chosen buff up you'll feel like a god.

Karkadraks struggle with a rend shortage but pump out crazy damage against stuff with medium to bad saves.

Knights are a bit overcosted for what they do but not so badly that you'll feel disadvantaged in most games.

Khorne DP are the strongest option in the book and probably one of the stronger options in all of AoS purely because of their command.

As you build your collection you'll want more mortal heros to summon units if you're interested in a ravager list. At the moment you might want to consider cabalist's for your subfaction. Sacrificing warriors isn't super efficient but they also get a unique spell that reduces movement. Combine with a Khorne DP  *chef kiss* suddenly that unit of dragons that your opponent put all those points into are sitting there unable to do anything.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ravinsild that looks a lot like the kind of lists i usually run but i use Manticore Sorc instead of DP and Varanguard instead of Fomoroid/Chosen. Right now your list lacks any real punch and the heroes are easy to snipe off.

The Lord on Foot is a favorite of mine. If you changed the Sorc Lord spell to Binding Damnation and the Warshrine prayer to Curse it makes nice combo. Cast Damnation and Curse on enemy target then Demon Power and Spurred by Gods command your unit. 

The enemy unit fights last after your unit fights twice rerolling all hit/wound doing mortals on 6 to hit. You could take out a monster with 20 Warriors otherwise bring its profile way down.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:

@Ravinsild that looks a lot like the kind of lists i usually run but i use Manticore Sorc instead of DP and Varanguard instead of Fomoroid/Chosen. Right now your list lacks any real punch and the heroes are easy to snipe off.

The Lord on Foot is a favorite of mine. If you changed the Sorc Lord spell to Binding Damnation and the Warshrine prayer to Curse it makes nice combo. Cast Damnation and Curse on enemy target then Demon Power and Spurred by Gods command your unit. 

The enemy unit fights last after your unit fights twice rerolling all hit/wound doing mortals on 6 to hit. You could take out a monster with 20 Warriors otherwise bring its profile way down.

Not to argue but using the mathhammer app to me, personally, it looked like Knights and Chosen had a punch. 

also idk if it’s punchy but Fomoroid look like they cause a bunch of mortal wounds. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Khorne Knights with lances are decent on the charge but usually that is only gonna happen once a game and maybe not at all.

I like Chosen but they gotta fight first and are very susceptible to ranged attacks.

Personally i haven't used Fomoroid. They seem ok but dicey. Could do a bunch of dmg or almost none.

Basically their ok but not very dependable. Varanguard are rock, paper, scissors as well but have only one weakness wich is non-magical mortal wounds and better rng chances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:

Khorne Knights with lances are decent on the charge but usually that is only gonna happen once a game and maybe not at all.

I like Chosen but they gotta fight first and are very susceptible to ranged attacks.

Personally i haven't used Fomoroid. They seem ok but dicey. Could do a bunch of dmg or almost none.

Basically their ok but not very dependable. Varanguard are rock, paper, scissors as well but have only one weakness wich is non-magical mortal wounds and better rng chances.

For me at least it would be that even if I dropped the knights and Fomoroid in order to take Varanguard I still don’t have the points (if only they were 270 but alas) and on top of that then I would have only 1 battleline and my list would be illegal :/ 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...