AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Rors]

Has anyone here ever tried vortec beasts? They don't look crash hot but they're only 175 points, seems plausible to spam. At which point they're random effects can all stack together to really nuke a unit or support character. The none damage debuffs last all game and as you stack them get fairly nasty although really you're just fishing for 6s.

I feel like I might just be convincing myself to embrace the congestive dissonance though.

[Lord Krungharr]

Yes YES spam the tentacles!  Definitely the most Chaotic monster there is.  I am sorely tempted to spam Soul Grinders (which if I ever want to play 40k again might come in hand?).  Here's what I'm thinking coming from a not-yet-StD-player standpoint (don't think this is what folks would call 'good' but perhaps a fun spoiler, or DEspoiler list   )

Khorne Daemon Prince (general/Amulet of Destiny)

4 Chaos Chariots (battleline)

2 Mindstealer Sphiranxes

3 Soul Grinders

One-Eyed Grunnock

2 Alpha Beasts Battalions, 1 Battle Regiment.  All the monsters besides Grunnock can get pregame moves, HUZZAH!

Edited March 1, 2022 by Lord Krungharr

[Agent of Chaos]

@Lord Krungharr hilarious list!

The Daemon Prince already gets a 5+ ward for being the despoiler general so no need for amulet of destiny.

 

[Lord Krungharr]

48 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@Lord Krungharr hilarious list!

The Daemon Prince already gets a 5+ ward for being the despoiler general so no need for amulet of destiny.

 

Whoa, AWESOME!  I don't the have tome yet.  Nor do I have the Soul Grinders and Chariots, but everything else I do.  

[Archion89]

Those that have used both weapon options for their Khorne prince.  Which just feels better to use?  I know mathematically they're similar but just wanted opinions on it.  I like the idea of high rolling with the sword but the axe is just very consistent with Khorne and getting the charge.

[readercolin]

3 hours ago, Archion89 said:

Those that have used both weapon options for their Khorne prince.  Which just feels better to use?  I know mathematically they're similar but just wanted opinions on it.  I like the idea of high rolling with the sword but the axe is just very consistent with Khorne and getting the charge.

Honestly, I keep the khorne daemon prince around for his aura - any combat utility is pretty negligable because I don't want him threatened so I can make sure to keep that aura around.  Mathematically, the two are the same, or close enough as to not be worth bothering about (as in, between .1 to .5 damage difference on average, and if you ignore 2+ saves it is basically .1 to .25 damage difference).  In either case though, unless you are that crazy person who ran a 5 daemon prince list, these guys aren't going to be adding much to your list beyond the khorne aura for the weapon choice to be making a big impact in your decision making.  So go with whichever seems cooler to you.

[Latetotheparty]

I’m real curious about that 5DP list I keep hearing about. I can’t seem to find it anywhere, can someone post a link or something?

[readercolin]

5 hours ago, Latetotheparty said:

I’m real curious about that 5DP list I keep hearing about. I can’t seem to find it anywhere, can someone post a link or something?

It appears I was slightly wrong - it was 4 Daemon Princes and Be'lakor.  This was run at "Bloodshed in the Shires 2022" by Simon Weakley, and I was able to find the list here:

Army Name: The Butchers of Blood-Blessed Flux
Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Despoilers
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
One-Eyed Grunnock (470)**
- Allies (Mega Gargant Mercenaries)

Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (360)*
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Spell: Call to Glory

Tretchomvar Cursecast - Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)*
- Hellforged Sword
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos
- Spell: Spite-tongue Curse

Maughaemon Gougefrenzy - Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)*
- General
- Hellforged Sword
- Command Trait: Paragon of Ruin 
- Artefact: Doombringer Blade 
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Ghak Scarfury - Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)**
- Hellforged Sword
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Tarkoth Goremaul - Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)**
- Hellforged Sword
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battleline
The Syndicate of the Sentient Forge - 8 x Iron Golems (75)*
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

The Iconoclasts of the Iron Messiah - 8 x Iron Golems (75)**
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

The Covenant of the Bronze Fiend - 8 x Iron Golems (75)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Endless Spells & Invocations
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
Prismatic Palisade (40)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Spell

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 470 / 400
Wounds: 111
Drops: 9

Edited March 3, 2022 by readercolin
added pilot

[Cambot1231]

Apparently Warhammer Weekly will be devoting a show to go over this list

[Archion89]

Sword seems to be the pick to fish for mortals I guess.

[Enoby]

Finished another Path to Glory character, this time with two models Queen Akhash as a Warqueen (Undivided) and her as an Aspiring Champion (Tzeentch) after making an unwitting pledge to a Lord of Change.

[Archion89]

What are some good tools against Lumineth?  I'm not facing anything crazy but something like Light of Eltharion, Cathallar, 20 Wardens, 20 Sentinels, 5 riders and 1 ballista.  It's a 1250 +/- 10 point game.

I was thinking despoilers mainly due to extra healing and ward saves built in on the general.  The LoS block will help some on the spells front and Khorne prince should help slow their charge movements down.  I'm thinking having speed is essential but this is about as far as I get with the list before not really knowing what to do with the final 250 points:

LEADERS

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210) - General - Command Trait: Radiance of Dark Glory - Sword - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (270) - Artefact: Arcane Tome - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch - Spell: Mask of Darkness

UNITS

5 x Chaos Knights (170) - Ensorcelled Weapons - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

5 x Chaos Knights (170) - Ensorcelled Weapons - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

20 x Chaos Marauders (180) - Axes & Shields - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

1000/1250

Battlalion would most likely be Battle Regiment for the 1 drop.

Any advice is appreciated as I never played against them.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Archion89
Format

[readercolin]

1 hour ago, Archion89 said:

What are some good tools against Lumineth?  I'm not facing anything crazy but something like Light of Eltharion, Cathallar, 20 Wardens, 20 Sentinels, 5 riders and 1 ballista.  It's a 1250 +/- 10 point game.

I was thinking despoilers mainly due to extra healing and ward saves built in on the general.  The LoS block will help some on the spells front and Khorne prince should help slow their charge movements down.  I'm thinking having speed is essential but this is about as far as I get with the list before not really knowing what to do with the final 250 points:

LEADERS

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210) - General - Command Trait: Radiance of Dark Glory - Sword - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (270) - Artefact: Arcane Tome - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch - Spell: Mask of Darkness

UNITS

5 x Chaos Knights (170) - Ensorcelled Weapons - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

5 x Chaos Knights (170) - Ensorcelled Weapons - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

20 x Chaos Marauders (180) - Axes & Shields - Mark of Chaos: Khorne

1000/1250

Battlalion would most likely be Battle Regiment for the 1 drop.

Any advice is appreciated as I never played against them.

Lumineth tends to be more about precision damage and mortal wounds.  They can't do a lot of damage, but they are going to be great at picking off support hero's.  As long as your opponent isn't going heavy on foxes, the best "hard counter" to lumineth is probably going to be throwing a wall of bodies at them.

Ex. 20 chaos warriors (with runeshields - halberds or hand weapons both work), chaos knights, varanguard, Karkadrak, etc.

2 example armies:

Knights of the Empty Throne
3 Varanguard
Karkadrak
20 Chaos Warriors
5 Knights
5 Knights

Just give everything the mark of Khorne, and you are throwing an army that has 94 wounds, everything has a 5+ ward vs mortal wounds, and everything is rocking a 3+ or 4+ save.  Give the Karkadrak an arcane tome and flaming weapon and go to town (or the varanguard the grasping plate for 6" pile in).

Ravagers
Karkadrak
Sorcerer Lord
Sorcerer Lord
20 Chaos Warriors
5 Knights
5 Knights

Give everything the mark of Tzeentch and you can save stack against any rend your opponent brings, and only your sorcerer lords will be weak vs mortal wounds.  Give them both the spell "Mask of Darkness" so you can teleport something around, and give one of your sorcerer lord's "Master of Magic" to reliably get that teleport off.  This army brings 89 wounds to the board and is a bit weaker vs the precision sniping, but again your opponent is going to struggle to get through the wall of iron you throw in their face.  On top of that, this army can bring cultists/marauders in on a board edge to attempt to get into their shooters and tie them up, potentially bringing another 30 wounds to the board.

Do note that slaves to darkness don't really have an answer to a "Fox Spam" build that attempts to block you off with foxes and move out of charge range at the end of the shooting phase.  It is basically a hard counter.  However, against most other lumineth lists, just drowning them in bodies is probably going to be the most effective answer.

[Archion89]

4 hours ago, readercolin said:

Lumineth tends to be more about precision damage and mortal wounds.  They can't do a lot of damage, but they are going to be great at picking off support hero's.  As long as your opponent isn't going heavy on foxes, the best "hard counter" to lumineth is probably going to be throwing a wall of bodies at them.

Ex. 20 chaos warriors (with runeshields - halberds or hand weapons both work), chaos knights, varanguard, Karkadrak, etc.

2 example armies:

Knights of the Empty Throne
3 Varanguard
Karkadrak
20 Chaos Warriors
5 Knights
5 Knights

Just give everything the mark of Khorne, and you are throwing an army that has 94 wounds, everything has a 5+ ward vs mortal wounds, and everything is rocking a 3+ or 4+ save.  Give the Karkadrak an arcane tome and flaming weapon and go to town (or the varanguard the grasping plate for 6" pile in).

Ravagers
Karkadrak
Sorcerer Lord
Sorcerer Lord
20 Chaos Warriors
5 Knights
5 Knights

Give everything the mark of Tzeentch and you can save stack against any rend your opponent brings, and only your sorcerer lords will be weak vs mortal wounds.  Give them both the spell "Mask of Darkness" so you can teleport something around, and give one of your sorcerer lord's "Master of Magic" to reliably get that teleport off.  This army brings 89 wounds to the board and is a bit weaker vs the precision sniping, but again your opponent is going to struggle to get through the wall of iron you throw in their face.  On top of that, this army can bring cultists/marauders in on a board edge to attempt to get into their shooters and tie them up, potentially bringing another 30 wounds to the board.

Do note that slaves to darkness don't really have an answer to a "Fox Spam" build that attempts to block you off with foxes and move out of charge range at the end of the shooting phase.  It is basically a hard counter.  However, against most other lumineth lists, just drowning them in bodies is probably going to be the most effective answer.

This is all great.  I was probably just overthinking and just throwing bodies will do.  He doesn't have any foxes as this is more casual so I will most likely go with the ravagers approach.  Thanks!

[Khendall]

On 2/23/2022 at 8:44 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

Wait, Bonesplitterz are only 27%, less than Beasts of Chaos AND Khorne?  Did I get ripped off?!

Now they are good with KRAIGNOS 

[Khendall]

On 2/22/2022 at 1:06 PM, JackStreicher said:

Archaon + Deamon Prince of Khorne.
The latter is simply toxic to the game, his CA is way too good with no counter play. It utterly demolishes armies with bad shooting.
The other lists are Knights of the Empty Throne + Be'lakor. 2x6 or 1x6 Varanguard (Tzeentch so also rerolling 1s to save with a 2+ save, ignoring X rend) with all the access to save stacking are a nightmare to beat. One unit of 6 demolished 80 Grave Guards within 3 Combat phases. 

So orverall I really dislike how our book plays. It has become the epitome of cheese:
Save stacking on big Elite Units (Varanguard) or Heroes (Archaoen), combined with outdated fight twice rules (Chaos Lord + Archaon is simply wtf), then punch your enemy to a bloody pulp by denying their charges and runs with the Khorne Deamon Prince (which actively stops combat, HE IS KHORNE and does WHAT?), while ping-ponging through the enemy's army with a perpetually fighting twice archaon. The amount of stats stacking is nothing but stupid at this point.
While the rest of the army is actually rather bad.
The whole army also crumbles to good shooting. (which not every faction has)


Do not take the win rate of a faction as measurement of wether that faction is good in general or not. It's usually 1-2 Lists that are good enough to achieve a 50%+ win rate
Example Stormcast: Overall rather meh, however they have 4 Warscrolls that carry that entire book out of 70+ Warscrolls.

Indeed but still

Archaon, Daemon Prince, Chaos alors

and then What ?

[Lord Krungharr]

At first I was going to say that the Khorne DP CA isn't that OP....but I just reread it and hmmm, that's pretty darn amazing!  Gotta get my 2 Fomoroid Crushers and Soulgrinder built, then I can give him some game time.  I expect it to be nerfed at some point, but the way Chaos tomes are going it won't be for quite a while.  Betting the next one will be a Skaven update.

[Agent of Chaos]

Its one of the best command abilities in the game and completely shuts down some armies while helping to ensure units like lance knights and chariots get the charges they need.

Of course thematically it makes zero sense that a khorne deamon prince would try to keep enemies out of combat, but that speaks to GW having no clue how to write Khorne rules (as seen in the latest white dwarf). 

[Lightbox]

I have almost finished work on my converted Idolator lord, pretty happy with how she's come out Need to focus on adding a little retinue to her chariot so I can also use her (on a bigger base) as a counts as Glutos for Slaanesh.

[Lord Krungharr]

Thinking upon allies for StD, guess it kinda depends on the Marks we use.  Generally I plan to go with Khorne, just as a legacy of my pure Khorne days (which are just dried stains upon the ground now), so thinking a Bloodsecrator for extra attack bubble and maybe a Slaughterpriest.  But do people use mixed Marks at all for various units?  

My battletome is still on order so I am not familiar with what each Mark does exactly...isn't it each hero has an aura bubble, and then if it's the General it's an additional effect?  Does seem perhaps different units would benefit better from different Marks.  And then to squeeze in a couple different allied heroes for different effects if possible might be advantageous.  Like a Fatemaster of Tzeentch for Tzeentch Soul Grinders

 

[Agent of Chaos]

Typically the hero aura is wholly within 12" for the basic buff with an extra buff if the hero is the General (there are a couple of ways to increase the general's aura to 18"):

Khorne = reroll 1's to hit / +1 to wound

Tzeentch = reroll 1's to save / 5+ spell ignore

Nurgle = wound roll os 6 give +1 dmg / -1 to hit with shooting (less valuable now that negative buffs are capped at 1)

Slaanesh = 6's to hit give 2 hits / reroll run & charge rolls

Undivided = immune to battleshock / 6+ ward save

Because of these effects, mixed mark armies are common and there is no real detriment to playing this way. 

Aspiring Deathbringer, Bloodsecrator and Bloodstoker are all solid allied hero choices for a khorne melee based force while a Fatemaster looks like a good way to give some punch to a defensively focused Tzeentch army. After their new tomes Im pretty sure all Nurgle and Slaanesh heroes are keyword locked to maggotkin and hedonite respectively. 

Keep in mind that while a warshrine takes it own mark, its 6+ ward applies to everyone and it can pray any of its prayers on any slaves unit; i.e. a shrine of nurgle can put the tzeentch prayer onto a lord of khorne.

[Archion89]

Saw this list through reddit, from the Ogre Cubb Age of Sigmar 2022 (Tournament?).  StD came in second with 4/1/0.  A Ravagers list using two warqueens.  With marks now perhaps they should be more utilized with marauders so something with a small foot print can provide them marks?  I know her ability is win more with the extra charge but could still be useful.

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Ravagers
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Darkoath Warqueen (90)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Battle-lust
Darkoath Warqueen (90)
- Artefact: Cloak of the Relentless Conqueror
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Eternal Vendetta
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (135)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Unquestioned Resolve
- Spell: Binding Damnation
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (135)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Chaos Lord (120)
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Artefact: Mark of the High-favoured
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate
Chaos Lord on Manticore (255)
- General
- Blade & Lance
- Command Trait: Master of Deception
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon

Battleline
30 x Chaos Marauders (270)*
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Reinforced x 2
5 x Chaos Knights (170)*
- Cursed Lance
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Knights (170)
- Cursed Lance
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

Units
10 x Chaos Chosen (290)*
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Reinforced x 1

Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (215)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Prayer1: Universal Prayer Scripture: Heal

Endless Spells & Invocations
Eightfold Doom-sigil (50)

Core Battalions
* Hunters of the Heartlands
Command Entourage - Magnificent
Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Artefact

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
Drops: 11

 

[Latetotheparty]

How are Mindstealer Sphiranx’ used on the tt? What’s their role? What do you combo them with?
 

I want to use one badly in a despoiler list.

[ChaosUndivided]

On 4/3/2022 at 6:29 AM, Latetotheparty said:

How are Mindstealer Sphiranx’ used on the tt? What’s their role? What do you combo them with?
 

I want to use one badly in a despoiler list.

I have yet to actually use the kitty but i think it can be very powerful when used in combination with the fight twice ability the varanguard have or the chaos lord can do.

The idea is to use the cats fight last ability on an enemy monster or anvil unit then one - two punch it before the enemy unit gets a chance to hit back.

The khorne deamon prince command ability can help you neutralize the opponent and give you a chance to move in position to set up the combo.

[Agent of Chaos]

On 4/3/2022 at 8:29 PM, Latetotheparty said:

How are Mindstealer Sphiranx’ used on the tt? What’s their role? What do you combo them with?
 

I want to use one badly in a despoiler list.

What ChaosUndivided said but its 12" range and the effect occuring in the hero phase (i.e. before movement) means you have to be careful with your positioning and plan a turn ahead to utilise it. It should sit behind the front line and if the enemy comes to you it can proc the 'fight last' in your turn. If you are rushing across the table it will be harder for it to keep up and use its ability. Its a really good candidate for Mask of Darkness as you can teleport it in range in the hero phase and then pop the fight last effect.

Dont forget its -2 bravery aura which when stacked with chaos knights and marauders can create a -4 bravery bomb. Its also a cheap monster for doing a battle tactic like Monstrous Takeover however is not hard to kill so is an easy 1VP for your opponent. In a pinch it could charge in and stomp or roar at the fight last target.