readercolin Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 On 1/19/2022 at 7:47 AM, ChaosUndivided said: I would like to see the god armies become coalition in a S2D list instead of the other way around. This makes more sense thematically as all chaos is under one banner (undivided) but would also make things like running slaughter priest in idolaters an interesting choice or tzeentch wizards in cabalist more interesting. I would really like this in the next StD book. Especially if it is treated more like Coalition in the Cities of Sigmar rather than the crappy coalition rules for the various gods. What I mean by this is that in the cities, if I coalition in some stormcast, they gain the cities keyword AND they gain the specific city keyword. So I can give a block of judicators the buffs from a hurricanum (which affects the cities keyword), and also tempest eye specific effects. However, with they way they structured coalition in the chaos gods... its terrible. Yes, I can technically bring a block of chaos warriors/knights/whatever in Nurgle, and they will have the nurgle keyword. However, the 5+ ward and disease effects aren't locked to nurgle, they are locked to Maggotkin of Nurgle, which is not a keyword that the Slaves would get when they get coalitioned in. This is honestly my biggest gripe with Slaves to Darkness at the moment. I bought into them originally specifically because by doing so I was actually buying in to all 5 god armies. Yes, they generally weren't the best in those armies, but if I bought the KO vs Tzeentch box, I could always go ahead and run all of the Tzeentch units from that box and back it up with my blocks of chaos warriors/knights and hero's as a tzeentch army. Or if I bought the Khorne start collecting, I can run the hero's from that and fill out my army with chaos warriors and test Khorne out. The whole purpose of all of this was to be able to purchase the cool units from the various gods and not have to spend time purchasing all the units that I don't like, or the repetative battleline units, etc. Making StD the coalition army fulfills my goals. I want to run the Skyfires that I have. I want an excuse to buy and run a Bloodthirster. I want to run that cool slannesh unit. But I don't want to have to go purchase a whole 2k army. Eventually I might build out enough to be able to run a full army for those factions - that is what happened to my cities armies. But I want an excuse to buy selected cool models and run them without having to purchase whole new armies. To give an example, I have just finished out a full 2k Kharadron Overlords army. It started as me getting some endrinriggers to run in tempest eye, and then later getting a set of thunderers + ironclad to run in that tempest eye army. Because those models seemed cool to me. But getting those 2 sets of units to run as coalition led to me having 1500 points of KO, and it was pretty trivial to go from that to a full 2k list, so I decided to do that. I want to have a list that I can run and bring in some fun units from various factions. If I can do that with slaves to darkness, I might go ahead and buy a Tzzangor shaman to go with my skyfires, and now I have 555 points of Tzeentch. If I decide in the future that I want to build a bunch of flamers, suddenly I have another 700 points of tzeentch (2 squads of 6). Combine the 2 and I have 1200 points - get a lord of change and some pinks and suddenly I have a full tzeentch army. Heck, I would prefer that to the 2.0 rules, as I can do all of this without needing to buy the other books. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 The new coalition rules were a gut punch to the god armies, especially Khorne which is in a real bad place right now. OK Archaon was a bit OP in Tzeentch with the destiny dice and spell buffs, maybe khorne too with the fight twice CA, but why did GW have to punish everyone when they could have just fixed Archy? First they stopped coalition units being the General or battleline and now they dont benefit from the allegiance abilities. Slaves units could fill a nice hole in the Khorne list, bring a tanky mortal hero or battleline (something the army completely lacks) or some cost effective fast damage dealers like knights or marauders, warshrine getting a khorne prayer or attempting a judgement etc. Now that you cant use blood tithe on slaves units, give the warshrine a khorne prayer, etc it makes you really reconsider if its worth bringing them at all. I just love how slaanesh marked chaos knights in STD get exploding 6's to hit, but put the same unit in a Hedonites of Slaanesh army and they forget how to do that. This change killed any chance of me running a slaanesh army as I wanted to run my knights & chariots there for the speed buffs. Way to lose sales GW... Meanwhile i dont know if it hurts STD as much. For example you can still bring a bloodsecrator for bonus attacks to your khorne marked units and he never benefited from the STD allegiance abilities but you dont need him to. The examples of stormcast in cities armies has lead to some really OP stuff (Fulminators in Living Cities anyone; come on from board edge, shoot then spend a CP to move before charging???) but apparently thats fine. Meanwhile chaos knights can reroll wounds of 1 when near an objective in the goretide slaughterhost and we have to put a stop to that! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosUndivided Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Agent of Chaos said: Meanwhile i dont know if it hurts STD as much. For example you can still bring a bloodsecrator for bonus attacks to your khorne marked units and he never benefited from the STD allegiance abilities but you dont need him to. This is precisely why i feel the new coalition rules didn't hurt khorne as bad as many make it out to be. All the good khorne buffs are from their heroes and target khorne marked things still. My S2D collection started as a khorne army where i would self impose mortal only list. Which made things like manticore, slaughterbrute, and warshrines great additions but they never benefited from much other than the buffs khorne heroes passed out. The warshrine lost the its protection aura (outside S2D) awhile back, and 2 prayer cast when 3.0 came out, so thats been out the window long before coalition rules. Plus generic prayers are quite good. I never really summoned deamons with blood tithe, the boons are great and still works on thirsters, but truth be told manticore has never been that good outside of sorcerer spell. Archaon losing them is a shame but now skarbrand gets to fight on death? Oh man do you know how many mortals that guy pumps out? Plus anything at all dies it generates blood tithe so arc can still rack those up. Most of the time many khorne players are spamming auto unbind or waiting to summon something so not much changed. Really blood tithe should not reset when used or the boons need improvement, ideally both. The same applies to tzeentch fate mechanic, it doesnt matter who cast a spell so long as a spell is cast you gain fate points. The destiny dice + slayer of kings was truly problematic. Slaanesh on the other hand probably did suffer the most from new coalition rule. S2D cant generate depravity points any more and some of their buffs did come from allegiance abilities. All this separation from the god armies is ultimately good for S2D own balance if their points/warscrolls can improve without being broken in other armies. But hurts for players like @readercolin, @Agent of Chaos, (and myself) who want to dabble in all the chaos armies by supplementing troops with Slaves. I think the problem of balancing between all the possibilities is to switch it around and make the god armies coalition inside S2D, then we can play with our favorite toys and much of the balancing issues can be remedied by tweeking the subfaction bonuses within S2D (which would have their own restrictions). Edit: Btw archaon still gets to fight twice (possibly every turn) in a khorne army if you bring chaos lord. Edited January 20, 2022 by ChaosUndivided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Archy giving fight on death to skarbrand is great for sure. Im coming from a place where I dont play archy. I just wanted to run my chaos knights etc and not feel like im being punished for doing so. Its true that secrator, wrathmonger and bloodstoker buffs all target 'khorne' keyword but not being able to spend blood tithe on those units hurts. Quite often it was the move or fight in the hero phase ability for 3 or 4 tithe that was game winning and there will come a time when you need to use that on a STD unit and you cant. Dont get me started on blood tithe though. Only army in the game that has to choose between summoning or getting an allegiance ability buff as well as the only one that resets to zero when points are spent. This on top of very little power projection and only one way in the whole army to generate it outside of destroying units, often meaning several turns have to pass before any tithe is generated to spend and youa re effectively playing without any allegiance abilities. By the time you have 8 to summon a thirster or activate exploding 6's to hit (i.e. the thing that Hedonites just do for free), most of the time you have already won or lost and its irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Kim Woof-Woof Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) . Edited January 21, 2022 by Big Kim Woof-Woof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latetotheparty Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Hey peeps, I finished a colorscheme test model, what do you think? I enjoyed painting this one so much that I’m tempted to get the dominion SC’s and slap them all on 32mm bases and call them a single unit of warriors. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latetotheparty Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Couldn’t help myself and now I’m chaosifying the dominion stormcasts. Here’s the first one. Not sure yet what to do with the shield. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Quick noob question about the Ravagers' Rally the Tribes battle trait...does the unit rallied (10 marauders, 5 horsemen or 10 cultists) have to be one that was originally part of your army and has been wiped or can it be a completely different unit? In the second case does the unit need to be included in the list and count to the points total or is it a free bonus unit? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimrock Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 3 hours ago, Mako said: Quick noob question about the Ravagers' Rally the Tribes battle trait...does the unit rallied (10 marauders, 5 horsemen or 10 cultists) have to be one that was originally part of your army and has been wiped or can it be a completely different unit? In the second case does the unit need to be included in the list and count to the points total or is it a free bonus unit? Thanks! Totally new unit, and no you don't need to bank points for it or include it in the list beforehand. All summoning in AoS is free points wise, you generally only need to expend some sort of in game resource for it (like a command point for Ravagers or Contagion Points in Maggotkin). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos spawn Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 On 2/2/2022 at 11:00 PM, Latetotheparty said: Couldn’t help myself and now I’m chaosifying the dominion stormcasts. Here’s the first one. Not sure yet what to do with the shield. Use a chaos knight shield, put spikes on the shoulder pads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khendall Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 How ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, Khendall said: How ? It is from just 27 matches tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khendall Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 6 hours ago, Boar said: It is from just 27 matches tough. Still, how ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 21 minutes ago, Khendall said: Still, how ? Almost certainly involves Archaon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khendall Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 15 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said: Almost certainly involves Archaon. And Be’lakor with Splintered Fangs Battlelines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holy_Diver Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Hi, fellow pernicious brothers! An hobby question about our army: converting chaos chosen. My idea is to buy 10 bestigors and use they as chosen, maybe as they are "bestigor destroyers" (actually bestigor from Spyre Tyrants, for ones who doesn't remember). Now, do you think it can visually work? PS: Plan B is to use bestigors with chaos knights heads, to simulate "mutated chosen", cause then they maintain goat legs, but I prefer the first idea. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 7 hours ago, Holy_Diver said: An hobby question about our army: converting chaos chosen. My idea is to buy 10 bestigors and use they as chosen, maybe as they are "bestigor destroyers" (actually bestigor from Spyre Tyrants, for ones who doesn't remember). Now, do you think it can visually work? Sounds like a cool proxy to me. Some things to consider: - do you have any other beasts of chaos conversions/proxies in your army? - any beasts of chaos allies? - basically any way your chosen could be confused with other similar looking units? Just be really clear with your opponent at the start of the game (and remind them during the game if necessary) and if going to a tournament, check in with the TO first that your proxy is OK. Otherwise good to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holy_Diver Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 12 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said: Sounds like a cool proxy to me. Some things to consider: - do you have any other beasts of chaos conversions/proxies in your army? - any beasts of chaos allies? - basically any way your chosen could be confused with other similar looking units? Just be really clear with your opponent at the start of the game (and remind them during the game if necessary) and if going to a tournament, check in with the TO first that your proxy is OK. Otherwise good to go! Well then first of all in my army they would be the only ones to have beastmen traits, therefore recognizable from everything else, but there is one aspect in fact that I had not considered: the tournament infopack. Where I come from, they could make a fuss about such a proxy (although I used to kitbash to reinforce the armors). So the alternative for stay sure is apply chaos knights heads, getting "mutated warriors". Anyone had the same issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) On 2/14/2022 at 1:11 AM, Khendall said: Still, how ? Archaon + Deamon Prince of Khorne. The latter is simply toxic to the game, his CA is way too good with no counter play. It utterly demolishes armies with bad shooting. The other lists are Knights of the Empty Throne + Be'lakor. 2x6 or 1x6 Varanguard (Tzeentch so also rerolling 1s to save with a 2+ save, ignoring X rend) with all the access to save stacking are a nightmare to beat. One unit of 6 demolished 80 Grave Guards within 3 Combat phases. So orverall I really dislike how our book plays. It has become the epitome of cheese: Save stacking on big Elite Units (Varanguard) or Heroes (Archaoen), combined with outdated fight twice rules (Chaos Lord + Archaon is simply wtf), then punch your enemy to a bloody pulp by denying their charges and runs with the Khorne Deamon Prince (which actively stops combat, HE IS KHORNE and does WHAT?), while ping-ponging through the enemy's army with a perpetually fighting twice archaon. The amount of stats stacking is nothing but stupid at this point. While the rest of the army is actually rather bad. The whole army also crumbles to good shooting. (which not every faction has) Do not take the win rate of a faction as measurement of wether that faction is good in general or not. It's usually 1-2 Lists that are good enough to achieve a 50%+ win rate Example Stormcast: Overall rather meh, however they have 4 Warscrolls that carry that entire book out of 70+ Warscrolls. Edited February 22, 2022 by JackStreicher 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 I've been playing a lot more Slaves to Darkness in narrative play, and I can say that (fittingly) S2D is a really good army for Path to Glory. There are a wide selection of models that come under "decent stats but not too strong", meaning you can bring pretty experimental lists safely. In a way it's made me appreciate the warscrolls a bit more from a casual perspective, but it has caused a problem competitively. The current P2G has made me aware of how much of a 'narrative' book S2D seems to be. Don't get me wrong, there are loads of units that don't fit their lore, but by 'narrative' I mean there are lots of Warscrolls that just exist and perform fine. I think SCE perform like this too - their competitive winrate is carried by a tiny fraction of their warscrolls, but the others do just fine in a casual sense. This extends to allegiance abilities, especially the Eye of the Gods. In Path to Glory, the Eye is carried over on heroes and it's actually really cool to see your hero grow stronger. But in a normal matched play game it seems close to useless, with only the Krakadrak and Manticore Lord having the chance to benefit. In P2G, people are using on foot heroes as actual combatants so you can challenge them. In matched play, foot heroes are at the back buffing and you're going to struggle to kill a 2+ save Mawkrusha unless you're Archaon (who gets now Eye). Then for units, looking at Chaos Knights as an example, while I don't think they fit their lore, they are 'fair' units in that they are never overwhelming and can be countered, but if played well they can dish out respectable damage. They do also act like cavalry, which gives them a niche. In P2G, this means you can take a unit of them and have them feel pretty useful. In matched play, the opponent can probably shoot them to death, or just charge something useless into them to keep them tied up all game (also possible in P2G, but there are fewer alpha strikes or teleports from experience). So on one hand, it's been nice trying a wide array of units that perform to a satisfying standard. This contrasts against a unit like Slaangors or Black Knights which don't fit any role and are just bad. I feel I can add most things and have them do well enough that I don't regret taking them against other casual lists. On the other hand, in a competitive sense, it only feels as if there are a small number of stand out units - Archaon, Chaos Sorcerer Lord, Chaos Lord, Khorne DP, Marauders, Varanguard (in certain circumstances), and Belakor. Everything else feels a bit overbalanced when it comes across another powerful unit. This may be a criticism more against AoS than the S2D book, but most S2D units feel as if they've had the breaks put on them to make sure they don't get out of hand. If everything was designed like that, it'd be fine (better, even), but when taking the army competitively, anything but our creme of the crop crumbles. In a strange way, some of the design harkens back to AoS 0 where, without points, most things were reigned in. I know this is a bit rambly, but the more I play in P2G, the more I'm pleasantly surprised how well some of my more disliked units do. However, when I move over to matched play, it tends to fall apart unless I bring our strongest stuff. In a way, I think this is the case for 90% of AoS armies, but S2D does feel like it's more overbalanced than average with the number of restrictions that crop up (especially the Aura of Chaos allegiance ability). I'd recommend trying P2G *if* you have a group that won't just treat it like Mini Matched Play. There are a tonne of decent units that we have access to which are fun to play but would never see a matched play table, and you don't have to resort to Archaon to kill something. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 10 hours ago, Enoby said: I'd recommend trying P2G *if* you have a group that won't just treat it like Mini Matched Play. Indeed. It’s just the best format! (Worst Missions though) ^^ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: Indeed. It’s just the best format! (Worst Missions though) ^^ I really hope they release a P2G book soon with better missions, more territory, outposts (still not sure what they do), and hero customisation. It's a really great format, but it could use more love. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Just now, Enoby said: I really hope they release a P2G book soon with better missions, more territory, outposts (still not sure what they do), and hero customisation. It's a really great format, but it could use more love. Absolutely! I‘d also love some kind of tie in to a map campaign! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 On 2/13/2022 at 11:24 AM, Khendall said: How ? Wait, Bonesplitterz are only 27%, less than Beasts of Chaos AND Khorne? Did I get ripped off?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramig Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/21/2022 at 3:31 PM, Holy_Diver said: Hi, fellow pernicious brothers! An hobby question about our army: converting chaos chosen. My idea is to buy 10 bestigors and use they as chosen, maybe as they are "bestigor destroyers" (actually bestigor from Spyre Tyrants, for ones who doesn't remember). Now, do you think it can visually work? PS: Plan B is to use bestigors with chaos knights heads, to simulate "mutated chosen", cause then they maintain goat legs, but I prefer the first idea. I have seen some conversion made using blood warriors armor and bestigor head, arms, legs. It was good, try looking on Google 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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