AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Charleston]

3 hours ago, W1tchhunter said:

If I was to take any khorne units, bloodthirster, khorne dawgs, blood warriors etc. Will they receive the aura of khorne buffs from a nearby khorne hero? And in a despoilers list would the bloodthirster gain the D3 healing, due to the monster keyword?

I suggest you reread page 67 of the Battletome. In both cases: No. You simply do not have access to the Keywords required.

Aura of Chaos is only provided to Units with the Slaves to Darkness Keyword, which units from the Khorne book do not have.

Also, only Slaves to Darkness units can gain the Despoilers Keyword needed for the Despoilers Monster healing ability. 

Also, iirc the ally rules prevent allied forced to use the alligience ability of their host anyway. 

[LordPrometheus]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:05 PM, DJJazzyFred said:

No, varanguard don't have the eye of the gods keyword, which is required to roll on the table.

Thanks, I totally forgot about that keyword lol

[Charleston]

Had a quite tense game against Soulblight today which we both used to test our tournament lists. First and foremost: I had the joy to play with a really awesome fella and enjoyed the game and the relaxed atmosphere during the whole time! It was a close game we used to discuss many possible turns and tactics and therefore rather "open". He played 2x20 Graveguards, 30 Skeletton Warriors, Manfred, Vyrkos Wolf Lady, VL, Necromancer, 5 Blood Knights. I played the list posted before. We went with the Vierce (?), a mission in which the objectives moved from the corners to the middle. I managed to win 27 to 23 after 5 turns but the game felt really close. As I have no pictured and a rep without them is always exhausting, here is a brief recap: I had less drops, let him go first. He mostly buffed up his units but remained quite stationary, using only minor repositioning. I used the chance to push out and had end of turn 2 many units spread wide so he could not summon his 2x20 graveguards. This gave me quite an advantage together with the battletactics that provide additional VP when scored by monsters which in the end led to the victory. His Grave Guard was devastating: Neither Warrior nor Knights can survive anything with that many -1 rend D2 attacks. The 25mm base is a huge advantage that should not be frowned upon as I had to learn the hard way. The Khorne DP Command Ability ruined many charges and left his units in vulnerable spots, mostly far enough away from objectives which secured me the objective when needed in the last turn.

Toughts about units and lists:

• Despoilers are squirrel: Ward 5 on a Warlord is nuts. Healing Monsters on 4+ is nuts. 18" command Aura is nuts. Warlord Ability to heal on a 3+ is nuts, artifact for full rerolls on a target is nuts, artifact for fight first after charge is nuts. Blocking LOS is at least on paper nuts.
  • Demon Princes on Tzeentch are great along Belakor and are great warlords. The CA works well with Belakors 2 casts. Having the ability to buff your Warlord to 2+/5++ with save rerolls and ignoring spells is just what you need, especially with the ability to use Look-Out-Sir. Not being a monster is nice here, too, as your opponent won't chase for the "Slay the Warlord" that much.
  • DP of Khorne with their CA are pinnacle of control abilities. StD plays damn good the control train, but that CA is bonkers. 18" reach is just a nightmare for each opponent once you plant that sweet red gory 60mm base somewhere close the middle of the board. 
  • While I see why people want to play Belakor as Warlord for the 5++, I see much more potential to make the mentioned DP of Tzeentch the Warlord. I used him as Belakors Supporter and was able to get massive heal, cast bonuses as well as a 18" save-reroll-aura that is worth more than ever for my Tzeentch units.
  • Using pitch black to shut down shooting is still a thing that depends on the board and therefore is not reliable at all. I still have to get some games in to check if this works at all or is just neat on paper.
• Heal. Heal is just sick. Belakor dropped down to 4-5 wounds in that game twice and I got him up to full health within mere moments.
  • Biggest player is the Emerald Lifeswarm. For 60pts you get 2D3 burst heal the turn you summon it. And trust me, so far no one bothered dispelling this thing as people always weight their own buff and damage spells far more important than dispelling a little endless spell that doesn't seem harmful anyway. And if they take it serious they still have to sacrifice a cast attempt to dispel it. Beeing able to command it as we desire with the new rules makes it really worth playing. 
  • The Radiance of Dark Glory and Despoilers heal work also very good. I see potential for an allied Slaughterpriest to use the generic heal prayer as well. 
• Sorcerer Lord on Manticore is something I see to get a bit of discussion in the future:
  • It has access to one of our 3 anti-horde spells and I assume one of the best ones that is attached to the best platform (Gaunt Summoners are too fragile and the generic spell is great for the immobilizing effect) and a free mystic shield which are nice upsides. The mount and Staff do also reasonable damage.
  • The damage output is meanwhile smaller than from the Lord on Manticore with Lance and Sword which became the cheaper option with recent GHB changes. This is why I am considering giving the Lord a chance over the Sorcerer Lord in future lists. Both options are reasonably pointed and fullfill roles that are different enough to see both be played again.
• Belakor may be quite a bit overrated. Now I said it. The shutdown is awesome, the 2 Casts/Spells are also great but for this list he also has to do damage and during the last 2 game he really failed at it. I mean, 6-8 attacks at rend -2 D2 is not bad, but damn I wish I could just up him with the flaming blade spell. He is also useless against all forms of "Reduce Damage by 1" sheningans which I expect that we will see more often with Seraphon, Daughters Invocation and so on. Still he works more than fine against many targets, is a great distraction carnifex and a nice control and magic model. But while he is an autoinclude in many competetive lists I see, I am sure he won't see that much play in 3-4 months. 
• Knights are nothing to write home about. With the new generic CA's the Enscrolled Weapons lost impact, Lances were always a huge issue to land a good charge with, and their durability is also rather okaish. It might be that I am biased as I had to compare them against Blood Knights during the game.
• Warriors...well, I shouldn't judge. I used 10 to teleport them on an Objective so I can score 1-2 additional VP. No wonder they got obliterated by Blood Knights, Grave Guards and a VL while they had no buffs on them. So they did a good job but were only sacrificial pawns. Cruel are the ways of the Dark Gods I guess
• Soul Grinders feel somehow bad. Without All-Out-Attack they don't perform at all due to 4+ to hit. They are also not as durable as they shine on the first glance. I am afraid mine won't be used much in the future until I find a good way of using them. Another DP it is instead, or a Slaughterpriest ally with Heal and a Mindcat. Or maybe I give that sweet Varanguard a try. 
• StD are a great control army. Whispering Madness, Fight Order Sheningans, Denying stuff with Khorne DP and Belakor. It can be really frustrating for the opponent and simply shut down plays they need to win the game. With rerolls and mechanics I see them as the clear winners of AoS 3.0 transition.
• Throwing all of your monsters in a huge pile at your opponents sounds stupid, but it somehow worked our very well for me. You do not have to be afraid of 20 buffed grave guard when you can fight with 2 DP's, a Manticore and Belakor before they get their first activation. 

[Praecautus]

On 8/19/2021 at 4:46 PM, W1tchhunter said:

Well that is sad, another question kinda spit balling ideas around and noone else in my circle plays slaves.

If I was to take any khorne units, bloodthirster, khorne dawgs, blood warriors etc. Will they receive the aura of khorne buffs from a nearby khorne hero? And in a despoilers list would the bloodthirster gain the D3 healing, due to the monster keyword?

The blades if Khorne  allies won’t receive benefit of the slaves buffs. But your Khorne slave units can take advantage of the BoK buffs brought by the allies, some of which are pretty tasty. For example bloodstoker at 85 pts w a 3 to run / charge and reroll wounds buff on a Khorne mortal unit is great value. Bloodsecrator with +1 attack and reroll all magic in 16 (careful with your mages). Wrathmongers get MW on death and +1 attack aura plus pile in after death w Skarr.

[Doomham]

On 8/22/2021 at 5:37 AM, Charleston said:

Throwing all of your monsters in a huge pile at your opponents sounds stupid, but it somehow worked our very well for me. You do not have to be afraid of 20 buffed grave guard when you can fight with 2 DP's, a Manticore and Belakor before they get their first activation. 

Belakor doesn´t have Strike First, does he?

i like the list but wonder how it can dislodge a tough unit that sits on an objective, sounds hard to find the space/make all charges to get all 4 characters to attack one unit?

[Charleston]

40 minutes ago, Doomham said:

Belakor doesn´t have Strike First, does he?

i like the list but wonder how it can dislodge a tough unit that sits on an objective, sounds hard to find the space/make all charges to get all 4 characters to attack one unit?

Belakor does not have first strike, you are right. The quotet line was written with my list in mind where the Manticore gets the Helm of Many eyes which allows it to have Strike First on charge leading to 3/4 units having strike first and Belakor beeing the first unit to activate in regular activation.

As for your concern with getting them all in range: Yes, this is a major challange in the list. Charging order and positioning has to be planned well, especially as opponents can remove models to try to prevent activations, althrough you still have 3" to pile in.

Getting them all in base contact with Teclis, Nagash, Allarielle? Should work fine, 12-14" move on most units does help here to position in a good way. 30 Skelletons? You will fit all your units nicely. Smaller units of 3-5 models are an issue here, but I would assume that hitting a unit of 3-5 models with the 4 big monsters would be over-commitment anyway so you can split up to hit different targets

 

Edit:

Considering the mentioned aspects I would change the list into the following for the next iteration.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Despoilers
- Grand Strategy: None Chosen
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (360)*
- Spell: Call to Glory
Chaos Lord on Manticore (255)**
- Blade & Lance
- Artefact: Helm of Many Eyes
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)*
- Sword
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (115)**
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)*
- General
- Sword
- Command Trait: Radiance of Dark Glory
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos
Slaughterpriest (110)**
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Heal
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Chaos Knights (170)*
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Warriors (200)**
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Warriors (200)**
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

Units
1 x Mindstealer Sphiranx (95)**

Endless Spells & Invocations
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Battle Regiment

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 110 / 400
Wounds: 118
Drops: 5
 

Althrough I am not 100% confident about the Lord on Manticore and the Arcane Tome on the Warlord instead of the Despoilers-Blade, those are two major changes I'd like to test. Sphiranx is there as cheap 3rd Monster (Having the additional VP's for monsters doing stuff is a huge edge as long as you can keep them alive long enough). The -2 to bravery goes well with Knights -1 and Belakors self-heal. Slaughterpriest for Boil, Heal and Unbind a Spell or an Invication is just a good addon.

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Charleston

[Qoolin]

Slaves to Darkness KOtET question. For the sake of Battalions how do we count 3xVaranguard Unit in KOtET? 15W commander only or 5W sub-commander possible?

[Doomham]

18 hours ago, Charleston said:

Battleline
5 x Chaos Knights (170)*
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Warriors (200)**
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Warriors (200)**
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

on paper i don´t see 10 warriors as much better than 10 marauders actually. changes when it´s 20 warriors as then they are a very difficult to block to shift. if you didn´t have good experiences with knights, maybe it´s interesting to reshuffle here to get that 20 CW block in?

[BabaYaga667]

Can someone explain to me how the marks of Chaos works. I am coming from cities of sigmar. So i plan to use undivided for the stacks if Marauders I am planning to use. So if I put the undevided mark on the Chaos Mauraders does that mean that they will always be immume to battleshock even if there isn't a general around? I was also planning on giving my Chaos warriors and knights the mark of Khorne. Any tips would be great. I'm playing the ravengers sub faction. 

[W1tchhunter]

I'm just awful at list building, but I'm trying not to rely to much on using online lists as it's all I've ever really used when I play. I know this isn't probably competitive in anyway (dunno if it's even legal :p) I've made the list mostly using units I really like (except the exalted hero, what a genuine piece of ****** hero he his but I needed a 6th). Anything that could be improved without changing the whole list? Mostly wanting to know if the traits and artefacts are good choices. 

[Bibob45]

15 hours ago, BabaYaga667 said:

Can someone explain to me how the marks of Chaos works. I am coming from cities of sigmar. So i plan to use undivided for the stacks if Marauders I am planning to use. So if I put the undevided mark on the Chaos Mauraders does that mean that they will always be immume to battleshock even if there isn't a general around? I was also planning on giving my Chaos warriors and knights the mark of Khorne. Any tips would be great. I'm playing the ravengers sub faction. 

Most units in S2D can be given a Mark of Chaos. Every S2D hero with a Mark of Chaos Keyword has an aura around him buffing others S2D units with the same keyword. The general has a better aura than other heroes, but non-hero units have to be close to a hero in order to benefit from the Aura. Non-hero units do not have any Aura of Chaos by themselves and that the Aura of Chaos from S2D heroes are only buffing S2D units.

Other than the Aura of Chaos, giving a Mark a Chaos to a unit will give them one of the Chaos god keywords (or undivided). This can make the unit eligible to receive buffs from other sources ( like a Blades of Khorne Bloodsecrator will buff S2D units with a Khorne Mark of Chaos) and allow units with the appropriate Mark to be taken as Coalition units in other armies.

You can have Undivided Marauders with Khorne Warriors and Knights, but many players choose to give the same mark of chaos to all their units as it is much easier to track which unit can receive which buff.

[Charleston]

12 hours ago, W1tchhunter said:

Anything that could be improved without changing the whole list?

Hi,

so I would encourage you to read some of the rules about listbuilding and restrictions. Best source for this is the first section of the GHB, or the core rulebook. I am afraid there are some misconceptions. The Warscroll-Builder provides you with most important information. Check out the bottom summary. It informs you about how many artifacts, allies and so on you are allowed to take for the selected battle size. You currently have 6/5 heroes and 3/2 artifacts (althrough it is worth noting that for some weird reason the app shows 3/1, most propably because you didn't selected Artifact as your additional Enchancement).

As for the List: Lord on Manticore looks fine, I played it in a similar fashion. From my experience you might consider another spell because the Warscroll one and the Whispers are quite similar (althrough both have differnt purpose, one beeing pure damage and the other more utility). Your footslogging CSL looks like a bit of an Overkill. A 5 wounds hero with Arcane Tome may attract more shooting than you'd like to. Also keep in mind that the Spiketounge Curse can easily kill your own hero in many cases. I am not 100% sure about bloodhounds outside of Khorne but as I never played them I might underestimate them. DP of Khorne is always nice. I have to check out the other Ravagers Stuff tbh because I don't remember all the Artifact Rules here. 

Btw it is way easier for us to comment on your list when you copypaste it as plain text. Screenshots are harder to comment/edit.

[W1tchhunter]

15 minutes ago, Charleston said:

Hi,

so I would encourage you to read some of the rules about listbuilding and restrictions. Best source for this is the first section of the GHB, or the core rulebook. I am afraid there are some misconceptions. The Warscroll-Builder provides you with most important information. Check out the bottom summary. It informs you about how many artifacts, allies and so on you are allowed to take for the selected battle size. You currently have 6/5 heroes and 3/2 artifacts (althrough it is worth noting that for some weird reason the app shows 3/1, most propably because you didn't selected Artifact as your additional Enchancement).

As for the List: Lord on Manticore looks fine, I played it in a similar fashion. From my experience you might consider another spell because the Warscroll one and the Whispers are quite similar (althrough both have differnt purpose, one beeing pure damage and the other more utility). Your footslogging CSL looks like a bit of an Overkill. A 5 wounds hero with Arcane Tome may attract more shooting than you'd like to. Also keep in mind that the Spiketounge Curse can easily kill your own hero in many cases. I am not 100% sure about bloodhounds outside of Khorne but as I never played them I might underestimate them. DP of Khorne is always nice. I have to check out the other Ravagers Stuff tbh because I don't remember all the Artifact Rules here. 

Btw it is way easier for us to comment on your list when you copypaste it as plain text. Screenshots are harder to comment/edit.

I've come to learn that the app is very unreliable when it comes to the rules haha. The GHB states in a 2000 point game you can have 1-6 heroes. The reason I have 3 artefacts is 1 just because, 2 for the Warlord battalion and 3 for the Command entourage.

 

I know having the Arcane tome on lil wiz is risky, but my thought process behind it is, if I'm facing a shooting army as slaves I've probably lost anyway 😛 also the artefacts in general for Ravagers are pretty terrible, I thought with having the endless spell it could be helpful casting 2 spells because due to his Command Trait he can reroll a failed cast role once per phase. Spike tongue curse was just a random pick really, if the enemies close enough for him to use it, he's probably in trouble anyway and if he does fail his cast I can reroll it cause of his Trait. 

[LordPrometheus]

6 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

I know having the Arcane tome on lil wiz is risky, but my thought process behind it is, if I'm facing a shooting army as slaves I've probably lost anyway 😛 

Not if you're playing Despoilers  I beat KO and Lumineth with them in a tournament before. Pitch Black is a fantastic rule.

IMO, Despoilers are extremely underrated right now, especially with new Belakor. Use him as a distraction carnifex, do some monster actions, and juice up one or two other DPs of Khorne with artifacts and spells and a 5+ ward and have them go ham. 

No idea how this would fare against gargants though.

[LordPrometheus]

Varanguard are elite now!

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/ct1LAEqXRcVkGiLl.pdf

[W1tchhunter]

Please ignore, apparently I really cant read..

Edited August 27, 2021 by W1tchhunter

[LordPrometheus]

Archy took a big hit... no more forcing everyone to re-roll sixes. Now it's a "once per game" -1 to hit. Whoopdee doo... Should have been a permanent -1 to hit.

[annarborhawk]

So we got even more defensive? Warriors now get a 5+ and a 6+ vs. mortals if backed by a shrine. 

[annarborhawk]

25 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:

Archy took a big hit... no more forcing everyone to re-roll sixes. Now it's a "once per game" -1 to hit. Whoopdee doo... Should have been a permanent -1 to hit.

I suspect it was a choice of either nerfing the eye of shereen or raising his points.  I'd rather have it this way than a 900+ point Archaon.

[KoganStyle]

1 hour ago, W1tchhunter said:

We can use all the monsterous arcanum stuff again now too warpfire dragon and mammoths are back

 

Mammoth gets aura of chaos also 😮

Where are you seeing the Mammoth? I just downloaded the Errata for Monstrous and no Mammoth in that file??!

[W1tchhunter]

Edited August 27, 2021 by W1tchhunter
Picture quality is trash for some reason

[Charlo]

Yeah, the War Mammoth isn't in the PDF?

[W1tchhunter]

9 minutes ago, Charlo said:

Yeah, the War Mammoth isn't in the PDF?

Warhammer legends, monstrous arcanum page 6

[Charlo]

Oh, its in legends

I guess not viable at a lot of events anymore then!

[W1tchhunter]

12 minutes ago, Charlo said:

Oh, its in legends

I guess not viable at a lot of events anymore then!

Oh what really? So there's two monster arcanums?

 

Found it, deeply depressed. Sorry for everyone who's hopes I got up 😢 

Edited August 27, 2021 by W1tchhunter