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AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion


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On 2/23/2021 at 2:59 PM, Agent of Chaos said:

Between chariots running and charging and teleporting marauders I do have some good reach and alpha strike potential which is nice. Rerolling saves and hits/wounds all over the place is nice too, although none of the attack profiles are heavy enough for it to really worry my opponents. The Khorne Idolator Lord and 5 x knights with lances make for a good power pair as they love his reroll hits prayer and +1 to wound aura and that is something I would look to expand on at 2K.

My list definitely lacked in several ways. Damage output and very little resilience was what I felt the most, especially in the two games against nurgle. I was able to put some hurt on them but they hit back just as hard and my units melted, especially with rend 1 or higher, whereas they still had plenty of bodies left and the option to summon if needed. I definitely missed some late game summoning Ravagers style. My first 2 games were more even but my opponents were not running OP lists by any stretch and lady luck was on my side at the right times. Being 9 drops meant I never had the choice of who went first which was definitely a disadvantage but the lack of command abilities and artifacts makes me feel that a battalion is wasted points in this legion. 

I feel like Idolators would be completely outclassed by most things at 2K. Apart from using a bunch of warcry units to fill out plague touched which is a very specific build, I just dont think they have enough tricks to match it with even mid-tier armies/lists. Reliable prayers are nice but hardly crucial. If the desecrate scenery rule was a bit more reasonable to pull off then they would have a better chance in some match ups where scenery is crucial (ahem, Nurgle) but in most games it wouldn't be a factor anyway. Warshrines gaining the Leader keyword is a tax in all but one or two battleplans where leaders score extra VP, otherwise it just steals a slot from a hero with an aura for no benefit.

That being said I've come up with a 2K list that expands on the power pair concept with a resilient core.

Big block of Nurgle warriors supported by Exalted Hero and Warshrine to hold the centre (3+ reroll saves, 6+ shrug, rerolling wounds and 6's doing 2 dmg), Flanking force consisting of Idolator Lord, Daemon Prince (to prevent counter charges), lance knights (all marked Khorne) with a Manticore Sorcerer for save rerolls and magic/melee support. Finally Belakor is there to slingshot the marauders when an opening presents itself and otherwise do Belakor things. Hoping to give this a try soon:

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Idolators
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Idolator Lord on Chaos Chariot (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Smite the Unbeliever
- Artefact: Trickster's Foil
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
- Prayer: Blessings of Khorne
Be'Lakor (240)
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
- Spell: Spite-tongue Curse
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Sword
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Exalted Hero of Chaos (90)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Battleline
30 x Chaos Warriors (540)
- Halberd & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
20 x Chaos Marauders (160)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

I feel you man...

The book is stuffed full with nonsense units without any connection to StD and the left over relevant units are underwhelming at best.

We don't have punch or any way to force critical magic. We don't have shooting and defnse units are overpriced doing exactly what other armies units do for way cheaper.

 

But kudos to you, keep on building lists and try your best. One day we will reign again

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1 hour ago, BaronBanana said:

Magic hopefully

You can just try to outscore. This list works the same is our lib bomb stormkeep list. Go on an objective and try to outscore before everything is killed. 
30 Chaos warrior are pretty hard to shift. Mayb even harder then my 30 liberators. Both units cannot fight back but could outlast.

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1 hour ago, Juicy said:

You can just try to outscore.

Not with 3 units it cant. 2 x 10 slow moving warriors won't last long or kill anything. 10 x Knights can do work in some circumstances but won't win the game on their own. Apart from the endless spells & Wind of Chaos, all of the offensive spells are 12" range meaning all of the squishy wizards need to get danger close to the enemy to cause damage. If it comes up against a strong anti-magic list its toast. Against an opponent with little to no anti-magic the spells might go off however the opponent will likely have mass bodies or FNP to whether the magic damage, shooting to pick off the wizards or enough speed to stay out of range and swoop in and take out the wizards. Unfortunately I feel Cabalists is a trap and probably the hardest legion to have success with. 

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6 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Not with 3 units it cant. 2 x 10 slow moving warriors won't last long or kill anything. 10 x Knights can do work in some circumstances but won't win the game on their own. Apart from the endless spells & Wind of Chaos, all of the offensive spells are 12" range meaning all of the squishy wizards need to get danger close to the enemy to cause damage. If it comes up against a strong anti-magic list its toast. Against an opponent with little to no anti-magic the spells might go off however the opponent will likely have mass bodies or FNP to whether the magic damage, shooting to pick off the wizards or enough speed to stay out of range and swoop in and take out the wizards. Unfortunately I feel Cabalists is a trap and probably the hardest legion to have success with. 

I think it can

Since broken realms i play a lot of stormkeep patrol lists of 30 liberators plus friends. Most of these lists have atleast 4 heroes and some judicators and gryphounds. No real killing power and besides that 1 block of 30 liberators there is no real staying power. Still against mid tier lists i seem to win more then i lose. Im pretty sure with a lists such as above people can make it work. Not to go 5-0 but a solid 3-2 should be possible. I feel like that list got more punch and more staying power then my list. And almost got the same amount of units. 

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@Juicy I like your optimism but you are comparing the staying power of 30 Liberators (60 wounds) with a 3+ save (probably 2+ with Castellant nearby) rerolling 1's, against 2 x 10 chaos warriors (2 x 20 wounds) with a 4+ save rerolling. Those warriors will get blown off objectives (or outnumbered) by just about any other battleline you can name, let alone if something elite looks at them.

The list might go OK in a casual game but in a tournament with lists tuned up to 11??? You will see a ton of Lumineth/Tzeentch/Nagash/Seraphon which  will shut down the magic (throw in Khorne as well), Kharadron/Cities/Lumineth/Seraphon lists will shoot the wizards off the table, Idoneth/FEC/Ogres/Iron Jaws/Giants/Fire Slayers will melee it off the table turn 2 or 3. That list has no speed, a single teleport that relies on a 9" charge, only 30 bodies for holding objectives, no summoning and very little melee power. That list (or any Cabalist list) would need incredible luck to win 1 tournament game let alone 3.

I don't enjoy being negative but call a spade a spade. There is a reason you don't see people on these forums often talking about Cabalists as well as not seeing them at tournaments. Maybe if spell lore had decent range so you could do magic damage from turn 1 it would have some play but as is you might have 2 turns at most to get the most out of your magic before the opponent is in your face hacking you to bits.  

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If you want to play Cabalists, in my opinion the best way to Do this is to play a lot of 20 man Marauders that you can throw around with Mask of Darkness and Charge. 

As Endless Spells I would use the Demonrift and Spell Portal so that you have a greater range and an Endless spell already nearby. 

The Pendulum is never a bad choice. 

What might be a good Pick as well is an allied Kairos Fateweaver who can pull off nasty magic on his own. He can re-roll one roll and auto-dispel an endless spell to cast it again. That will put some Real pressure on your enemie's unbinding choices.

I agree that having undivided will not save your Sorcerers, you should rather go Nurgle for that - 1 to Hit, which is - 2 near a friendly unit. 

For Cabalists, it is better to not to invest much more into Sorcerers than you would usually do. 900 points of Magic is an investment that must pay for itself on the Board. That is already an Archaon, who should be your benchmark for points effectiveness if you want to See how good your magic does. 

 

The Chaos Lord in Manticor is quite ok. However, he is better in any other God specific army than in Slaves to Darkness. Your Layout sounds quite good and could be your go to if you want to play him. Nevertheless, he is still better in other armies. 

Edited by Salyx
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49 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said:

So I've been meaning to come ask the community but kept forgetting; Idolators don't have an artifact table, right? I really want to have missed some detail where they get one and aren't limited to just realm artifacts.

Nope. Just realm artifacts. They came so close to actually making it a full subfaction.

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So what's the usual hero set up for ravagers? Seems like CL on foot, CL on Karkadrak, Chaos Sorc, and an Exalted hero of chaos. I was thinking about darkoath since they are fairly cheap and have good stat lines, but they can't have a mark, so having them in ravagers seems like an anti-synergy.  4 Heroes seems like the sweet spot, since there are two kinnda iffy command traits (Favored of the pantheon seems so so, and unquestioned resolve is a kinnda-sorta command point with a lot of strings attached).  

Also to see if I have my arms around how the faction works, I bounce warlord around to whomever is nearest the action, and summon units onto the board whenever I switch to someone who hasn't summoned units yet. Is that about the highlight? 

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On 3/1/2021 at 4:39 PM, Salyx said:

If you want to play Cabalists, in my opinion the best way to Do this is to play a lot of 20 man Marauders that you can throw around with Mask of Darkness and Charge. 

As Endless Spells I would use the Demonrift and Spell Portal so that you have a greater range and an Endless spell already nearby. 

The Pendulum is never a bad choice. 

What might be a good Pick as well is an allied Kairos Fateweaver who can pull off nasty magic on his own. He can re-roll one roll and auto-dispel an endless spell to cast it again. That will put some Real pressure on your enemie's unbinding choices.

I agree that having undivided will not save your Sorcerers, you should rather go Nurgle for that - 1 to Hit, which is - 2 near a friendly unit. 

For Cabalists, it is better to not to invest much more into Sorcerers than you would usually do. 900 points of Magic is an investment that must pay for itself on the Board. That is already an Archaon, who should be your benchmark for points effectiveness if you want to See how good your magic does. 

 

The Chaos Lord in Manticor is quite ok. However, he is better in any other God specific army than in Slaves to Darkness. Your Layout sounds quite good and could be your go to if you want to play him. Nevertheless, he is still better in other armies. 

image.png.b0567e04b466bf6a509e762658d4804b.pngSo something like this?  I also just really like Chaos Warriors

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@BaronBanana I think you are on the right track with this list. Its still 880 points of wizards but at least the marauders represent a true melee threat and 15 warriors can hold an objective. 

One issue is; which unit are you going to sacrifice for the ritual? You dont want to hit marauders and lose the -1 rend bonus for 20 models, and killing 1-3 chaos warriors hurts at 2 wounds each.

If you can find 10 points somewhere (maybe swap out the pendulum for a 40 point endless spell) then you can bring a warcry unit to sacrifice. 

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With Broken Realms Belakor on the way, what are peoples guesses on where he fits in? It looks like he is with demons again and the dead warrior on his base, might indicate him leading a demon force against Archaons mortals. If that is the case I fear we wont get to play with him in StD and he is more part of the Legion of Chaos Ascendant.

If nothing else we get a new model I guess, but even with a new warscroll that might not be for the StD book.

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Him losing access to mortals because he's campaigning against Archaon is asinine both mechanically and narratively. I think he's most likely going to be an updated warscroll an nothing more.  If I were a betting man I'd wager him spearheading a new wave of S2D bartleline kits.

Edited by Sinfullyvannila
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25 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Him losing access to mortals because he's campaigning against Archaon is asinine both mechanically and narratively. I think he's most likely going to be an updated warscroll an nothing more.  If I were a betting man I'd wager him spearheading a new wave of S2D bartleline kits.

I believe there is a very good chance of new chaos marauder miniatures being released with Be’lakor. The basis for my claim rests on the fact that I will have just finished building and painting the 40 old marauder models I am currently working on by that date. Support for this superstitious  view comes from the new Be’lakor being announced just after I bought the old model and also that it rains every time I put out the washing.

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I do think BR Be'lakor will bring with it some changes to how he can be run. I think it will be an expansion of the Legion of chaos ascendant shown in wrath of the everchosen. 

I dont think he will be pulled from slaves to darkness. The gaunt summoner has remained available to both slaves to darkness and tzeentch even after both got updated. Maybe theyll add a clause to him that he can't be taken in an army with archaon, if that is how the narrative is going in the new book. 

With a new model, I can see new rules being made. Especially if it is bigger. Do we know anything about his size? Honestly, I really like how he works and my preference would be for this to just be a model update, and the rules/points stay the same.

I'm with @Wraith on new marauders. I just finished painting 40 extensively converted marauders. So theyre bound to get sweet new models. Mostly hoping for multi part Knights though.

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On 3/1/2021 at 4:54 AM, Wraith said:

I try to send an email to the GW faq address to remind them of the need to give the Darkoath characters the Undivided keyword.  Which reminds me, I haven't pestered them about it this month yet.

I wonder what happen when you roll 9-10 or 11-12 on the EOTG table with a warqueen.

(Spoiler : no summonning and a markless Daemon Prince...DERP)

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13 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@grimgold you are pretty spot on with how it all works and the hero choices, although I would run a second sorcerer over an exalted hero. You would get far more out of extra magic, auto reroll saves as well as a hero aura. 

would it be worth running a sorc on chim? The spell seems really cool if you ever get it off.

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