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AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion


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2 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

I'm trying to line up my next list for when I finish painting my Giants (I find having a list I'm excited for helps me be motivated to paint). I'm eyeing slaves to darkness and I was wondering what people's thoughts on Idolators and/or Tzeentch marked units are. Both of these look pretty questionable to me but I don't have much experience with STD.

Idolators... just terrible.

Its nice to have +1 to prayers but most of the time you will only have 2 priests, warshrine and the Idolator chariot lord. The lord's prayer options arent great and locked to his mark. The Lord gets no bonus wounds and fights like an exalted charioteer... i.e. not great

Warcry warbands as battleline with charge bonus is pointless because we already have knights, warriors, marauders and marauder horsemen as battleline who are all better options. Warcry units hit like pool noodles and as they still cant take marks, you cant put prayers on them anyway, making the priest prayer bonus redundant to them. 

The legion has no artifacts which makes the terrible battalion even more redundant. 

I really cant see any reason to run Idolators over any of the other legions.

Meanwhile Tzeentch is the weakest of all the slaves marks and you would get far more out of just running Tzeencth allegiance. There are probably some techy slaves Tzeentch builds with allies such as Blue Scribes and Gaunt Summoner but they are rare and not recommended as a starting slaves army. 

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24 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Meanwhile Tzeentch is the weakest of all the slaves marks and you would get far more out of just running Tzeencth allegiance.

I would second this. Currently, short of few specific builds (like Varanguard), you are better off just taking your favorite slaves units and running them in your preferred god allegiance.

I can run an entire slaves army, Lord on Manticore or Krakadrak, Sorcerer, Knights, Warriors, Marauders, Warshrine, the works... as Hedonites, and while far from optimal Hedonites list, it is much much better than Slaanesh marked StD list.

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Ive got a 1K campaign game tomorrow night against Kharadron Overlords. It will be battle for the pass which really plays into his hands given his movement capabilities. Im expecting the usual Grundstock Escort Wing with Frigate, 2 x Gun Haulers, 1-2 units of Thunderers and a hero.

Usually my go to against KO, or any shooty army, is Nurgle Despoilers for that sweet -1 to hit shooting bubble and line of sight blocking terrain. Ive come up with the following list which I think will be able to hold my home and the 2 middle objectives. Im not expecting to have a play at his objective so the aim is to force him to come to mine and beat him up in melee. Belakor will neuter the Frigate for a turn or two and should be unopposed with his 2 spells per turn (3 once I get him on the Balewind). 

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Despoilers

Leaders
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- General
- Sword
- Command Trait: Lightning Reflexes
- Artefact: Armour of Tortured Souls
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
Be'Lakor (240)
- Spell: Spite-tongue Curse

Battleline
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1000 / 1000

I considered Mask of Darkness for Belakor's spell in case he leaves his home objective open however I find it very unreliable and given he is unlikely to have any unbinds, the near guaranteed 3 mortals from Spite Tongue Curse could be crucial. 

I also thought about warriors for camping the home objective but dont have points for 10 and 5 would be easy pickings. The general will position himself such that all 3 knight units get the -1 to hit aura and if he targets my general he will be at -3 to hit with shooting, I ignore rend -1 on my 3+ save and have a 5+ FNP with a chance to heal D3 at the start of each turn.

Anyone got any thoughts? Otherwise wish me luck!

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If you want to go Despoilers that may be a way to go. However, I do Not think that is a good idea. You got very few models that get easily shot. And I am Not talking about your general, the Chaos Knights are few in numbers, Belakor--from my experience-dies to a stiff breeze and you can Not play the Objective game if you have so few Minis. I think, KO would even outnumber you. If you want to try this list, I would still miss the Karkadrak or Demonic Mount General command trait. 

What I would suggest is Ravagers, because they can summon units on the Board, which can be a Real pain for the KO as they have a hard time covering the Board. On smaller game sized, summon are generally more powerful. So just use Ravagers, 2-3 small heroes, screen the Board with bodies, teleport around and summon in some more. 

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So my game plan is fairly simple; one unit of knights for each of the 3 objectives (ignoring the one in his territory as its too far away). My General will position himself near one of the middle objectives while keeping all of the knights within his -1 to shoot aura. The knights have 15 wounds at a 4+ save, hopefully with some mystic shield. The game is being played with Hysh realm rules so there is a bonus mystic shield spell I can use on a second unit as well. 

Both the general and belakor will turn some terrain pitch black (potentially protecting the knights from shooting completely), belakor can throw out the pallisade for further line of sight blocking and will get look out sir from one of the knight units, plus has a chance to heal D3 each turn if he does fail his ethereal 4+ save.

Basically Im making it as frustrating as possible for him to shoot me with the boats (if he even has a shot at all through the terrain and endless spell), forcing him to come closer with the shorter ranged thunderers etc at which point I catch him in melee and slaughter him.

@Salyx I totally get what you are saying and its definitely a high risk game plan. However my concern with 2-3 heroes in a Ravagers build is that if he shoots those heroes before I summon (which he could easily do) then the game plan is instantly in tatters. Also not sure I agree that KO have a hard time covering the board; OK they dont have the units to screen but the 3 boats can literally redeploy anywhere on the table, reduce a unit of marauders to nothing in a single shooting phase and then relocate to the next threat. 

Either way its a tough match up...

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10 hours ago, Shaquilleoheal said:

Guys a question: The size models of new chaos warriors start collecting set is the same of the "old" ones (the box of 16)?

Very similar, the proportions are a bit differently though - the boots and hands are sleeker, the helmets a bit smaller. The new ones look quite a bit better IMO but from a distance they mix and match together just fine.

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Crushed my KO opponent by bottom of round 4 without losing a single unit.

My knights were able to sit in terrain capping the middle objectives so I turned it all pitch black. Belakor turned off the Frigate bottom of round 1 so when he won priority into round 2 he gave me the turn. He wasted whole turns of shooting at my general as he had no other targets and failed to cause a single wound. Once he charged me on objectives I just wore him down and counter charged to finish him off. 

Nurgle despoilers with Belakor is such a hard counter to KO I cant recommend it enough. 

Love it when a plan comes together!

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On 11/23/2020 at 3:53 PM, Agent of Chaos said:

Idolators... just terrible.

Its nice to have +1 to prayers but most of the time you will only have 2 priests, warshrine and the Idolator chariot lord. The lord's prayer options arent great and locked to his mark. The Lord gets no bonus wounds and fights like an exalted charioteer... i.e. not great

 

Yeah, the regular lazy Warriors of Chaos garbage treatment.

Idolators shouldn't be even be a thing. The right way to create an interesting faction is, using their fluff.

If they would have created the Warshrine battalion with the +1 to prayers rule instead a lightning on roll of 6,

everyone would be happy and we wouldn't have a need for this garbage.

It is not that difficult to create schemed factions.

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I think the war shrine business is kind of not the point of the idolators faction though. I interpret the faction as more a "we are sorry" aimed at people who wanted to be able to run cultists as battle line. Now obviously cultists are not very good rules-wise, but they are really cool looking models and provide a lot of opportunities for realm-themed forces and conversion themes for character models too. I for one mainly didn't start an S2D army when the book came out because of the lack of battle line for cultists.

Would I have preferred better written rules to go along with battle line cultists? Yes, of course, but I will take what I can get.

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Considering you can't use prayers on cultists, why bother with that prayer rule at all? Why not some more abilities that make up for no marks and improve cultists generally?

If the whole point is to make cultists battleline because GW felt bad then why not just make that change in the next GHB and make it for all legions instead of forcing cultist players into this rubbish legion?

What does a 2K Idolators army look like and does it not include at least 3 units of chariots/knights/warriors/marauders/marauder horsemen filling the battleline role anyway?

Its just a massive misfire when it could have been so much more interesting and viable.

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Played a 3 game tournament with Knights of the Empty Throne Plaguetouched and ended 2-1 losing to Teclic Lumineth in the final round 25-26.

My list was: 

6x Varanguard grasping plate/magic armor

3x Varanguard nullstone

Sorcerer Lord mask of darkness 

Chaos Lord

15x Warriors sword/board

5x Knights ensorcelled

5x Knights ensorcelled

Warhshrine

Plaguetouched battalion 

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On 11/28/2020 at 4:31 AM, herohammer said:

I think the war shrine business is kind of not the point of the idolators faction though. I interpret the faction as more a "we are sorry" aimed at people who wanted to be able to run cultists as battle line. Now obviously cultists are not very good rules-wise, but they are really cool looking models and provide a lot of opportunities for realm-themed forces and conversion themes for character models too. I for one mainly didn't start an S2D army when the book came out because of the lack of battle line for cultists.

Would I have preferred better written rules to go along with battle line cultists? Yes, of course, but I will take what I can get.

Even if cultists were battleline, marauders would still outshine them rules-wise. Marauder models, on the other hand, are horrible.

That is why I run my beautiful cultist models as marauders. At the end of the day, that is exactly what cultists are - bunch of tribes and groups that are affiliated with one or more chaos gods.

I am honestly surprised that the GW went to such lengths to write janky and largely inconsequential rules for each individual cultist group (this model has two wounds! this model has a week ranged attack! this model has a special hat!). It takes all this extra effort in writing all these warscrolls and it just introduces unnecessary complexity in a tiny part of the army without actually giving more options to the player because they are all terrible.

I would really like to hear the reasoning behind the design decisions that went into cultist rules. Someone had to have had the idea and someone made the call to approve it. What were they thinking? I am really puzzled...

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6 hours ago, broverpowerd said:

Played a 3 game tournament with Knights of the Empty Throne Plaguetouched and ended 2-1 losing to Teclic Lumineth in the final round 25-26.

My list was: 

6x Varanguard grasping plate/magic armor

3x Varanguard nullstone

Sorcerer Lord mask of darkness 

Chaos Lord

15x Warriors sword/board

5x Knights ensorcelled

5x Knights ensorcelled

Warhshrine

Plaguetouched battalion 

Would you mind explaining how this works? Seems to good to be true 😛

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I’ve just ordered two Daemon Princes as I work through painting my first 1,000pts of Slaves and it got me wondering, how often will I need them for an Eye of the Gods of 11 or 12? 
 

So my question to those experienced generals, how often has it happened to you? And any memorable stories when it did?

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48 minutes ago, The Nameless One said:

I’ve just ordered two Daemon Princes as I work through painting my first 1,000pts of Slaves and it got me wondering, how often will I need them for an Eye of the Gods of 11 or 12? 
 

So my question to those experienced generals, how often has it happened to you? And any memorable stories when it did?

I recall my regular opponent pulling it off once in a year. Problem is, StoD heroes aren't really going to be in a position to kill enemy Heroes. Maybe the Karkadrak and Manticore lord, assuming they have it?

In fact, the most notable time for Eye of the Gods was when it was late game, and my Troggboss was on like 1 wound left minding his own business, and this chaos lord jumps him from behind a wall. He turned into a spawn for his trouble.

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On 11/29/2020 at 2:01 PM, The Nameless One said:

I’ve just ordered two Daemon Princes as I work through painting my first 1,000pts of Slaves and it got me wondering, how often will I need them for an Eye of the Gods of 11 or 12? 
 

So my question to those experienced generals, how often has it happened to you? And any memorable stories when it did?

The problem with that is, that you have to hop through so many hoops to even get to the EOtG table,

that it's very unlikely to happen.  Usuall, people keep their heroes away from close combat with StD

and StD players usually do the same because the heroes are the only source of buffs.

Since the new book i had to roll like 3 times on that table and also never got a 11-12.

I wouldn't include that into any game plan

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On 11/30/2020 at 8:01 AM, The Nameless One said:

I’ve just ordered two Daemon Princes as I work through painting my first 1,000pts of Slaves and it got me wondering, how often will I need them for an Eye of the Gods of 11 or 12? 
 

So my question to those experienced generals, how often has it happened to you? And any memorable stories when it did?

I've rolled on the table once since the book dropped and got an 8 I think. Pretty much the only heroes likely to have a chance is lord on karkadrak/Manticore and its pretty doubtful if you even want one of them turning into a DP, especially if they are at or near full health. 

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Game 2 of the campaign I'm in is up and its 1250 points Focal Points against Gloomspite Gitz (Squigs) in the Realm of Ulgu. An additional special rule applies; Pick a non general hero and if within 6" of an objective gain a bonus VP, bonus 2 VP if its the centre objective. 

Having played my opponent before I'm pretty sure he will run Jaws of Mork tribe with a Loonboss on Mangler Squig, Boss on Cave Squig, Fungoid Shaman, 10 x Bounders, a few units of hoppers, some sneaky snufflers, a squig herd and the battalion or just more squigs/a second mangler. 

I've had great success against the squigs with a Daemon Prince of Khorne's command ability to halve run & charges and a khorne allegiance ability should serve me well given there wont be any shooting. I'll definitely want Belakor again to shut down the mangler squid for a turn of 2 and to answer the magic of his shaman so this again leads me to take Despoilers (I also really like the 18" aura on the general and my CP will be needed for his CA so dont think ravagers is viable here).

Given the scenario I'm thinking 2 units to babysit my home objectives (with mortal wound protection against the squig hoppers) with some melee power in the centre to take care of the mangler and bounders after which it should be no issue to mop up the rest.  I would love to get the warshrine in there for the extra VP however I dont know where to fit it in the list. 

Also not sure on best spell for Belakor; Spite Tongue Curse (useful but too easy for the cave shaman to dispel) / Mask of Darkness (could be handy) / Call to Glory (so my general can reroll hits & wounds against the mangler squigs- pretty tempting)

Also not sure on Command Trait/Artifact: Bolstered by Hate (very tempting as I expect him to be a big target), Lord of Terror (tempting but pretty sure he will be swimming in CP to ignore any meaningful battleshock), Radiance of Dark Glory (tempting). Dont think I would get much out of the other 3.

Diabolic Mantle is tempting but Ive bought a CP so should have enough, leaning towards Armour of Tortured Souls for added survivability (combos well with Bolstered by Hate or goes great on the Karkadrak) however Doombringer Blade is also tempting so I dont have to rely on a spell for rerolling hits and wounds against the Mangler, plus it benefits my whole army.

Here is the list so far;

The General and Karkadrak hold the centre, knights hold back to counter-charge the biggest threat, warriors sit on each side objective and Belakor does what he can to be annoying. 

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Despoilers

Leaders
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- General, Sword, Mark of Chaos: Khorne
- Command Trait?
- Artifact?
Be'Lakor (240)
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (230)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battleline
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield, Mark of Chaos: Khorne
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield, Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Cursed Lance, Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1250 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 1

Thoughts?

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10 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

The problem with that is, that you have to hop through so many hoops to even get to the EOtG table,

that it's very unlikely to happen.  Usuall, people keep their heroes away from close combat with StD

and StD players usually do the same because the heroes are the only source of buffs.

Since the new book i had to roll like 3 times on that table and also never got a 11-12.

I wouldn't include that into any game plan

Oh, I agree. I’m in no doubt that it’s not the best thing that could happen, and I’m certainly not expecting it to occur. I was just curious in those times when a roll of 11 or 12 had happened.

As a narrative player, I’ll certainly have a Daemon Prince ready and, on those very rare occasions when a hero does ascend, I’ll be ready!😍

 

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@Agent of Chaos

Still totally new, but looking at what you're going for, and knowing what you used in your other list...how about something like this?  Pump the knights to 10 with the ability to double fight with the chaos lord (which should be safe since no shooting) to hold the middle? Diabolic Mantle to add more command points to throw around more fight twice.  Alternatively, drop 5 knights if you really want that warshrine?

Leaders
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- General, Sword, Mark of Chaos: Khorne
- Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate
- Artifact: Diabolic Mantle
Be'Lakor (240)
Chaos Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battleline
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield, Mark of Chaos: Khorne
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield, Mark of Chaos: Khorne
10 x Chaos Knights (320)
- Ensorcelled Weapons, Mark of Chaos: Khorne

1240/1250

Edit: spelling

Edited by Archion89
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8 hours ago, The Nameless One said:

Oh, I agree. I’m in no doubt that it’s not the best thing that could happen, and I’m certainly not expecting it to occur. I was just curious in those times when a roll of 11 or 12 had happened.

As a narrative player, I’ll certainly have a Daemon Prince ready and, on those very rare occasions when a hero does ascend, I’ll be ready!😍

 

I've had characters ascend twice so far. I believe one time was fighting another chaos army and once was after killing an ogre tyrant. The worst part is that I don't think it really had any impact on the game after the ascension, it was already late enough and enough had died that the newly created prince had nothing to do but gloat in a corner while sitting on an objective. Kind of a sad commentary on the nature of chaos... finally get what they desire and it turns out to be purely selfish and worthless in the end.

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