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AoS 2 .0 - Slaves to Darkness 2.0 Discussion!

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Is the STD start collecting arranged on sprues where they could split each part out?

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It would be different sprues.  They do everything in CAD these days so converting it to a pose able sprue (bigger sprue) wouldn't be too difficult.  It is more the fact that they would need to recall all the old warrior boxes, print new boxes (with the art on them), make enough sprues to get the product out to all the stores for an initial wave and then have enough in production to keep up with demand.  All the while competing with factory time for fresh kits for other factions (plus 40k)

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Hm. I really hoped they'd follow up the SC! box with new sets of Knights and Warriors (and Marauders!). If not, that's disappointing...

BTW. I'd really appreciate opinions on the army list I posted above :) I simply wonder if it makes any sense?

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6 hours ago, Death1942 said:

It would be different sprues.  They do everything in CAD these days so converting it to a pose able sprue (bigger sprue) wouldn't be too difficult. 

It would be utterly time consuming and they‘d have to Re-do all the models (depending on the way they create sculpts) to make them poseable.

@PiotrW I don‘t think you will fare well with the list: You Lack damage big time and you‘ve put too much points into units that won‘t do anything for you (cultists other than iron golems). You‘re also pretty heavy on the hero-side and your Army can‘t tank a lot of damage.

if you really want your cultists to take part in a battle then you should remove them from your list, switch your subfaction to ravagers and summon them in during the battle.

add some Marauders to your list and play 15 chaos warriors in one unit.

Edited by JackStreicher

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12 hours ago, PiotrW said:

I see. Is he in the StD battletome, I'm wondering?

Anyway - here's a quick StD army list I made, including Chaos units I find appealing for various reasons. Please tell me if it's a playable list, though?

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)
Darkoath Warqueen (90)
Darkoath Chieftain (90)
Theddra Skull-Scryer (70)
Ogroid Myrmidon (140)
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)

Battleline
5 x Chaos Warriors (100)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
5 x Chaos Warriors (100)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
5 x Chaos Warriors (100)
- Hand Weapon & Shield

Units
5 x Godsworn Hunt (60)
8 x Iron Golems (70)
8 x Cypher Lords (70)
9 x Corvus Cabal (70)
1 x Fomoroid Crusher (100)
1 x Mindstealer Sphiranx (100)
3 x Varanguard (300)

Total: 1950 / 2000

Even if this list is not so competitive is a pleasure for the eyes

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13 hours ago, PiotrW said:

I see. Is he in the StD battletome, I'm wondering?

Anyway - here's a quick StD army list I made, including Chaos units I find appealing for various reasons. Please tell me if it's a playable list, though?

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)
Darkoath Warqueen (90)
Darkoath Chieftain (90)
Theddra Skull-Scryer (70)
Ogroid Myrmidon (140)
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)

Battleline
5 x Chaos Warriors (100)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
5 x Chaos Warriors (100)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
5 x Chaos Warriors (100)
- Hand Weapon & Shield

Units
5 x Godsworn Hunt (60)
8 x Iron Golems (70)
8 x Cypher Lords (70)
9 x Corvus Cabal (70)
1 x Fomoroid Crusher (100)
1 x Mindstealer Sphiranx (100)
3 x Varanguard (300)

Total: 1950 / 2000

So I love the use of a thematic army and this will look great on the tabletop. I agree with @JackStreicher it lacks removal for big threats. I play alot of StD and Chaos, with Archaon, Varanguard etc. I would also recommend ravagers to utilise the cultists. I would try and jiggle around and fit in a battalion and some extra artefacts maybe godsworn champions of ruin or something like that. Warshrine and bigger units of marauders and warriors is also recommended if you want to go for board stall and obj sitting. 

Your lord on k and Varanguard will have to do some seriously heavy lifting though even with the Sphinx helping.

Hope that helps

 

 

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In case anyone else was considering spire tyrant marauders

20200221_121407.jpg

Edited by Spears
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Ok - well here's a fanciful but fluffy list. Not for tournaments, just casual club play but hopefully with some bite.  

Two Battalions - thematic list.

Legion: Ravagers

Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount (170)
5 x Chaos Knights (either weapon, counts as) (180)
5 x Chaos Knights (either weapon, counts as) (180)
5 x Chaos Knights (either weapon, counts as) (180)
1 x Chaos Chariots (120)
Ruinbringer Warband (140)


Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
5 x Chaos Chosen (140)
Godsworn Champions of Ruin (180)

Total: 1870 / 2000


 

Things to consider:

  1. This is a 3 drop army, with at least 3 CPs in turn one.
  2. Ruinbringer units have high armor and high health, which should allow them to  survive and get more charges off. Deliberately opted for MSU for more D3s.
  3. Everything in the Godsworn battalion is essentially expendable, as it revolves around the damage of the Karkadrak anyway. 
  4. For Ravager summons, I only have 20 x Marauder models waiting in the wings, though I guess one of the two Marauder Horsemen units would eventually die and be brought back on.
  5. I haven' t included Chaos Warriors because I find their warscroll doesn't reflect the badassery of the model - running them as Chosen instead.

 

Questions for y'all:

  1. Spend the 130 remaining points? If I don't take a 3rd hero I would lose a command trait, an artifact, and a ravagers summon.
  2. Which marks? Slaanesh seems the best to me what with the extra attacks and rerolling charges, but without a warshrine - maybe undivided or tzeentch for durability?
  3. Which artifacts? Chamon or Ulgu would be the realms of choice because of the -3 rend item that I would give the Karkadrak.
  4. Any other tips/changes?
Edited by Snakeb1te

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8 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

Ok - well here's a fanciful but fluffy list. Not for tournaments, just casual club play but with some bite.  

 

Two Battalions - thematic list.

Legion: Ravagers

Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount (170)
5 x Chaos Knights with lances (180)
5 x Chaos Knights with lances (180)
5 x Chaos Knights with lances (180)
1 x Chaos Chariots (120)
Ruinbringer Warband (140)


Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
5 x Chaos Chosen (140)
Godsworn Champions of Ruin (180)

Total: 1870 / 2000


 

Things to consider:

  1. This is a 3 drop army, with at least 3 CPs in turn one.
  2. Ruinbringer units have high armor and high health, which should allow them to  survive and get more charges off. Deliberately opted for MSU for more D3s.
  3. Everything in the Godsworn battalion is essentially expendable, as it revolves around the damage of the Karkadrak anyway. 
  4. For Ravager summons, I only have 20 x Chaos Marauders waiting in the wings, though I guess one of the two Marauder Horsemen units would eventually die and be brought back on.
  5. I haven' t included Chaos Warriors because I find their warscroll doesn't reflect the badassery of the model - running them as Chosen instead.

 

Questions for y'all:

  1. Spend the 130 remaining points? If I don't take a 3rd hero I would lose a command trait, an artifact, and a ravagers summon.
  2. Which marks? Slaanesh seems the best to me what with the extra attacks and rerolling charges, but without a warshrine - maybe undivided or tzeentch for durability?
  3. Which artifacts? Chamon or Ulgu would be the realms of choice because of the -3 rend item that I would give the Karkadrak.
  4. Any other tips/changes?

So I like the list I would go for a way to get the Lord on Mark hitting his hardest with a choice of Artefact that gives that (your preference).

I prefer consistent damage over burst damage so I would do the knights with Ensorcelled weapons. 

This then combined with Slaanesh would give you exploding 6s and alot of attacks on the charge or when you are stuck in combat. 

Personally I don't like chosen but I know the mathammer is quite good. I would use the 130 to get a sorcerer involved in the list.

Only thing to consider and this might not be prevalent in your scene is you could get pinned in your deployment by alpha striking armies or teleporting Tzeentch etc. So deployment will be a learning curve for you. Maurauders while very good in 40 blobs do die to a big hit of damage quite easily so holes could be formed by a well built list. 

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8 minutes ago, Blisterfeet said:

So I like the list I would go for a way to get the Lord on Mark hitting his hardest with a choice of Artefact that gives that (your preference).

I prefer consistent damage over burst damage so I would do the knights with Ensorcelled weapons. 

This then combined with Slaanesh would give you exploding 6s and alot of attacks on the charge or when you are stuck in combat. 

Personally I don't like chosen but I know the mathammer is quite good. I would use the 130 to get a sorcerer involved in the list.

Only thing to consider and this might not be prevalent in your scene is you could get pinned in your deployment by alpha striking armies or teleporting Tzeentch etc. So deployment will be a learning curve for you. Maurauders while very good in 40 blobs do die to a big hit of damage quite easily so holes could be formed by a well built list. 

Yes the idea is to have the two heroes getting stuck in as they're both relatively killy, helped further by a trait and artifact.

A Sorceror would be my bet as well, though I wondered whether some among you would prefer the Chaos Lord to make use of the extra CPs.

I mean, I could go the Ensorcelled - my friends would be kind enough to let me have the lances 'count as'. Just thought that as the list is living and dying on its charges, that I might as well go all in with that. With enough mounted units, I'd be looking to cycle charge the lance units.

I won't have cutting edge S-tier lists as my opponents - if I do I'll play my Daughters of Khaine. This list is for the average person who may have semi-optimised. That being said, the idea is that this army has a fair bit of damage, and if I get 'pinned' in my deployment zone on turn one, all that means is I'll be within charge range on turn one or two. Besides, with Ravagers, I'd have the option of summoning around the table, so in theory be in a position to claw back some ground.

Edited by Snakeb1te

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I'm not sure whether it's possible to have a unit in two battalions? But if so the Horsemen could also be part of the Ruinbringer Battalion. Anyone knows if this would be possible?

I'd add in a Chaos Sorcerer Lord with Mask of Darkness, too.

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42 minutes ago, Sneedlewoods said:

I'm not sure whether it's possible to have a unit in two battalions? But if so the Horsemen could also be part of the Ruinbringer Battalion. Anyone knows if this would be possible?

I'd add in a Chaos Sorcerer Lord with Mask of Darkness, too.

A unit can only belong to one battalion unfortunately. Which is why I like that the Karkadrak has the same charge ability as the ruinbringer, as he can still make use of it in godsworn ;)

Sorcerer with teleport - understood. What about the fights last spell? If I had another 100 points I would definitely include the Sphiranx, as I think some presence in the activation wars is a big deal. Plus the teleport seems really weird thematically... and I want the Marauders to be some kind of a screen.

Edited by Snakeb1te

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1 hour ago, Snakeb1te said:

A unit can only belong to one battalion unfortunately. Which is why I like that the Karkadrak has the same charge ability as the ruinbringer, as he can still make use of it in godsworn ;)

Sorcerer with teleport - understood. What about the fights last spell? If I had another 100 points I would definitely include the Sphiranx, as I think some presence in the activation wars is a big deal. Plus the teleport seems really weird thematically... and I want the Marauders to be some kind of a screen.

Seems you've thought about it I think a chaos lord double fight is a good CP ability but with a fast army the issue you have with him is the ability to keep up, where as the sorcerer does his work wherever.

I would get it on the tabletop get some games in and just analyse where you feel you are lacking. The amount of times I've drawn up lists and gone to the table top and been like Welp that didn't work 😂😂👍

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8 hours ago, HMB said:

Even if this list is not so competitive is a pleasure for the eyes

That was one of my goals! :D

8 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

It would be utterly time consuming and they‘d have to Re-do all the models (depending on the way they create sculpts) to make them poseable.

@PiotrW I don‘t think you will fare well with the list: You Lack damage big time and you‘ve put too much points into units that won‘t do anything for you (cultists other than iron golems). You‘re also pretty heavy on the hero-side and your Army can‘t tank a lot of damage.

if you really want your cultists to take part in a battle then you should remove them from your list, switch your subfaction to ravagers and summon them in during the battle.

add some Marauders to your list and play 15 chaos warriors in one unit.

So, questions!

1. What deals good damage in the StD army? I was considering a Mutalith Beast, but I didn't have enough points...

2. Are all cultists useless, then..?

3. Having too many heroes is bad, then?

7 hours ago, Blisterfeet said:

So I love the use of a thematic army and this will look great on the tabletop. I agree with @JackStreicher it lacks removal for big threats. I play alot of StD and Chaos, with Archaon, Varanguard etc. I would also recommend ravagers to utilise the cultists. I would try and jiggle around and fit in a battalion and some extra artefacts maybe godsworn champions of ruin or something like that. Warshrine and bigger units of marauders and warriors is also recommended if you want to go for board stall and obj sitting. 

Your lord on k and Varanguard will have to do some seriously heavy lifting though even with the Sphinx helping.

Hope that helps

What are Godsworn Champions of Ruin? Is it a battalion? What do I need for it? (I haven't read the battletome)

5 hours ago, Spears said:

In case anyone else was considering spire tyrant marauders

20200221_121407.jpg

Question: all in all, how many Marauders can you make out of a Spire Tyrants box? I don't have it yet...

Edited by PiotrW

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Does anyone think/have experience of converting up and using free guild guards as marauders?

just I have a box sitting around and thought I might try and make them Nurgle marauders.

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1 hour ago, PiotrW said:

1. What deals good damage in the StD army? I was considering a Mutalith Beast, but I didn't have enough points...

2. Are all cultists useless, then..?

3. Having too many heroes is bad, then?

1. Marauders, Daemon Princes, the Krakadrak with rend Artefact Lord, Buffed up Chaos War Mammoth, Archaon, Warshrine, Host of the Everchosen Varanguard. That’s pretty much it

2. I would not call them useless: for cabalist lists you get something out of „The fang“ and Iron golems Are in general good to hold objectives. Yet non of the warbands will ever deal any damage at all.

3. If you only have the heroes for the sake of it =} if your heroes don‘t fullfil a role on the battlefield then you are usually better off taking other units instead. Yet if you love those models then there‘s nothing wrong with using them =}
 

„Godsworn Champions of ruin“ is a battallion.

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41 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

1. Marauders, Daemon Princes, the Krakadrak with rend Artefact Lord, Buffed up Chaos War Mammoth, Archaon, Warshrine, Host of the Everchosen Varanguard. That’s pretty much it

How about the Warqueen and the Chieftain? Or the Fomoroid Crusher? He looks pretty formidable...

42 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

2. I would not call them useless: for cabalist lists you get something out of „The fang“ and Iron golems Are in general good to hold objectives. Yet non of the warbands will ever deal any damage at all.

No damage at all??? They are that weak? Even Clanrats deal damage! 😵😵😵

How about taking some Chaos-related allies? How does it work in general - StD can ally with any Chaos faction, but Khorne guys cannot ally with Slaanesh guys etc. So, can I have both Khorne and Slaanesh allied units in an StD army?

Also, what about Marks? Can I have some Slaanesh-Marked and some Khorne-Marked StD units in the same army?

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16 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

No damage at all??? They are that weak? Even Clanrats deal damage! 😵😵😵

How about taking some Chaos-related allies? How does it work in general - StD can ally with any Chaos faction, but Khorne guys cannot ally with Slaanesh guys etc. So, can I have both Khorne and Slaanesh allied units in an StD army?

Also, what about Marks? Can I have some Slaanesh-Marked and some Khorne-Marked StD units in the same army?

They only hit and wound on 4s with one attack each and no rend. That‘s nothing at least for me ^^
 

Yes you can.

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1 hour ago, PiotrW said:

How about the Warqueen and the Chieftain? Or the Fomoroid Crusher? He looks pretty formidable...

No damage at all??? They are that weak? Even Clanrats deal damage! 😵😵😵

How about taking some Chaos-related allies? How does it work in general - StD can ally with any Chaos faction, but Khorne guys cannot ally with Slaanesh guys etc. So, can I have both Khorne and Slaanesh allied units in an StD army?

Also, what about Marks? Can I have some Slaanesh-Marked and some Khorne-Marked StD units in the same army?

I think if you figure out what you want to achieve from the game. You want to lob some dice have a giggle and play your favourite looking units in a themed army. Then lob anything legal together and have some fun with friends.

If you want to be winning more than you lose on average then you know take a little of what we are saying and put those into practice into your list.

If you want to win nearly all of the time then you really need to have a firm grasp of what your game plan is and how to min-max your army to do it 😊 that's where @JackStreicher is talking from and myself when it comes to certain aspects. 

You can still be the first sort of player and go to tournaments even and there are narrative events which are such a blast. So figure out your goals and we as a community can help you accordingly get there 👍

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Hmmm. :) I'd say that my goal is somewhere between #1 and #2. Meaning, my main motivation for this StD army is to play and have fun - but, at the same time, I'd like to have a chance of actually winning battles. So, while I'm not looking for an super-optimized configuration, I'd want to build an army that makes a degree of sense. :)

You say the army I listed is lacking in damage-dealing capacity... well, I'm not going to field Marauders (unless GW releases some new updated models for them), but how about using allies to fix this problem? How about adding 20 Kairic Acolytes + making one big unit of 20 Chaos Warriors + adding 2 Chariots? Of course, some Warcry Cultists would have to be ditched...

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5 hours ago, PiotrW said:

Hmmm. :) I'd say that my goal is somewhere between #1 and #2. Meaning, my main motivation for this StD army is to play and have fun - but, at the same time, I'd like to have a chance of actually winning battles. So, while I'm not looking for an super-optimized configuration, I'd want to build an army that makes a degree of sense. :)

You say the army I listed is lacking in damage-dealing capacity... well, I'm not going to field Marauders (unless GW releases some new updated models for them), but how about using allies to fix this problem? How about adding 20 Kairic Acolytes + making one big unit of 20 Chaos Warriors + adding 2 Chariots? Of course, some Warcry Cultists would have to be ditched...

Honestly I think you'd have to drop all the cultists they are all awful, I don't think you can even take a mark of chaos on them, correct me if I'm wrong.

The only ones who might be able to do anything helpful are iron golems sitting on an objective cause if they don't move they reroll saves.

I would actually be impressed if you managed to get even 1 wound in against the enemy with any of the warcry guys.

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But the cultist just look cool... Hm.

Alright, here's my second attempt at a StD list:

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
Darkoath Warqueen / Darkoath Chieftain / Ogroid Myrmidon (90/140)
Theddra Skull-Scryer (70)

Battleline
10 x Chaos Warriors (200)
1 x Chaos Chariots (120)
1 x Chaos Chariots (120)

Units
5 x Godsworn Hunt (60)
3 x Varanguard (300)
1 x Mindstealer Sphiranx (100)
1 x Fomoroid Crusher (100)
8 x Iron Golems (70)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)

Total: 1920 to 1970 / 2000

Possible modifications: aside from the choice between the Warqueen, the Chieftain and the Ogroid Myrmidon as the barbarian-style leader already worked into the list, I could drop Iron Golems and have two of the "barbarians" heroes instead of one. Or, I could go the other way and put in another cultist units, if only for giggles :) There's also the possibility of dropping the Sphiranx or the Crusher and putting in the Mutalith Vortex Beast... Finally, there's the question of battalions, but I'm not getting into it, as I don't own the book, so I don't have the info on them.

Thoughts?

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18 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

But the cultist just look cool... Hm.

Alright, here's my second attempt at a StD list:

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
Darkoath Warqueen / Darkoath Chieftain / Ogroid Myrmidon (90/140)
Theddra Skull-Scryer (70)

Battleline
10 x Chaos Warriors (200)
1 x Chaos Chariots (120)
1 x Chaos Chariots (120)

Units
5 x Godsworn Hunt (60)
3 x Varanguard (300)
1 x Mindstealer Sphiranx (100)
1 x Fomoroid Crusher (100)
8 x Iron Golems (70)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)

Total: 1920 to 1970 / 2000

Possible modifications: aside from the choice between the Warqueen, the Chieftain and the Ogroid Myrmidon as the barbarian-style leader already worked into the list, I could drop Iron Golems and have two of the "barbarians" heroes instead of one. Or, I could go the other way and put in another cultist units, if only for giggles :) There's also the possibility of dropping the Sphiranx or the Crusher and putting in the Mutalith Vortex Beast... Finally, there's the question of battalions, but I'm not getting into it, as I don't own the book, so I don't have the info on them.

Thoughts?

I haven't played with the Darkoath people but I know they can't take auras either.

 

The mutalith beast is great fun however, it's so randomly cruel 😛 bring spare chaos spawn with you 😛

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8 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

But the cultist just look cool... Hm.

Alright, here's my second attempt at a StD list:

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
Darkoath Warqueen / Darkoath Chieftain / Ogroid Myrmidon (90/140)
Theddra Skull-Scryer (70)

Battleline
10 x Chaos Warriors (200)
1 x Chaos Chariots (120)
1 x Chaos Chariots (120)

Units
5 x Godsworn Hunt (60)
3 x Varanguard (300)
1 x Mindstealer Sphiranx (100)
1 x Fomoroid Crusher (100)
8 x Iron Golems (70)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)

Total: 1920 to 1970 / 2000

Possible modifications: aside from the choice between the Warqueen, the Chieftain and the Ogroid Myrmidon as the barbarian-style leader already worked into the list, I could drop Iron Golems and have two of the "barbarians" heroes instead of one. Or, I could go the other way and put in another cultist units, if only for giggles :) There's also the possibility of dropping the Sphiranx or the Crusher and putting in the Mutalith Vortex Beast... Finally, there's the question of battalions, but I'm not getting into it, as I don't own the book, so I don't have the info on them.

Thoughts?

All depends on the environment you are playing in. If people are going tournament/competitive builds then you will really struggle - if everyone uses just models they like then go ahead. Unfortunately if you want to go down the “tournament” route you really need to focus on the more point efficient units (Archeon, marauders, Be’lakor, sorcerer lord, Gaunt summoner, in some lists the Varanguard) and drop the less then stellar ones (pretty much all cultists, chaos warriors, chariots, fomoroid, most of the chosen heroes). 

Your army will look very good on the table but don’t expect it to have a positive win rate against any of the stronger builds floating around. Essentially - if you hate marauders and don’t want to use conversions then the army is tough to get to a competitive level without maybe going down Archeon/Varanguard route or building very strong synergy around warrior/knight blocks (IMHO).
 

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48 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

I haven't played with the Darkoath people but I know they can't take auras either.

The mutalith beast is great fun however, it's so randomly cruel 😛 bring spare chaos spawn with you 😛

It's a bit strange the Darkoath folk cannot take Marks... Nevertheless, I want to use them, because they are my favourite Chaos models (aside from the Skaven). I wish there was more of them!

The Mutalith Beast... yeah, it just seems too interesting not to use :)

48 minutes ago, NJohansson said:

All depends on the environment you are playing in. If people are going tournament/competitive builds then you will really struggle - if everyone uses just models they like then go ahead. Unfortunately if you want to go down the “tournament” route you really need to focus on the more point efficient units (Archeon, marauders, Be’lakor, sorcerer lord, Gaunt summoner, in some lists the Varanguard) and drop the less then stellar ones (pretty much all cultists, chaos warriors, chariots, fomoroid, most of the chosen heroes). 

Your army will look very good on the table but don’t expect it to have a positive win rate against any of the stronger builds floating around. Essentially - if you hate marauders and don’t want to use conversions then the army is tough to get to a competitive level without maybe going down Archeon/Varanguard route or building very strong synergy around warrior/knight blocks (IMHO).

I'm not really into tournaments, so maybe it won't be a problem...

And yeah - the Marauders issue. As I mentioned before, I really have a problem with how weak the minis are aesthetics-wise. Please tell me: is it common / acceptable among AoS players to use third-party proxies for their units? I might look around for similar models elsewhere...

BTW. Has it been explained somewhere in the fluff what's the difference between the Marauders and the Darkoath barbarians? I assume there should be one...

BTW 2. The Gaunt Summoner's once-per-battle summoning ability - is it something that works automatically, or does it involve rolls etc.?

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