AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

10 hours ago, W1tchhunter said:

Any chance you could show off your Chaos Warrior list? 

This is what I'm trying out tomorrow.

Sure! This is from memory so i May have had slightly more or less warriors in each unit so I apologize for any inaccuracies but I ran this list:

allegiance: slaves to darkness

faction: ravagers

chaos lord: agnaxes scales, bolstered by hate trait

chaos lord: blasphemous cuirass, eternal vendetta trait

exalted hero of chaos: master of deception trait

chaos warshrine

chaos warshrine

20 chaos marauders w/ axes and shields

25 warriors w/shields

25 warriors w/great weapons

battalion:plague touched warband, so everything is marked nurgle

this list came to approx. 1970-1980/2000 if I remember correctly

few things I took away from this: one unit of warriors is enough, and with nurgle mark you only need 20 to succeed against the enemies hammers. Anything lacking rend is an utter joke, and even high rend opponents will find it difficult to pierce 40 wounds at 5 up rerollable followed by 6 up fnp from the shrines. I would run them in 30s only to keep the negative to hit bonus from that nurgle dude some people like to ally. 

In my local meta I’m either fighting Nagash or barely any wizards. This is the reason I run zero wizards in my list, I understand that the tp spell would help immensely but against nagash its hard to get it thru. And the chances I waste 110 points is lessened if I take a second chaos lord. The mortal wound protection is also linked to the nagash fear lol. In a true all comers list I’d drop the second lord for a caster. My lack of mobility actually lost me my last game. Although if I had planned properly ahead it wouldn’t have mattered. The tp spell is incredible but also not needed unless things go wrong in my lists. I’m sure with more marauders this opinion would change. Casting 7 is tough sometimes tho

next week I’m changing the list to include a unit of 40 marauders and drop both warrior blocks to 20. We will see how it fairs! I also tend to forget that the nurgle battalion has 2 abilities, the 3 up d3 wounds could’ve changed the outcome of some fights so I will keep it in mind next time.

after I get another 80 marauders I will be running an undivided list with despoilers and Be’lakor, I’ll post any failures or successes vs my dastardly foes next Wednesday for the revised nurgle list. I’ll also be heavily considering using a caster instead of the 2nd chaos lord for  access to the teleport spell.  Nagash has 18 inch effective range so honestly I think I’m being paranoid. I could easily just not go within 18 inches of him and still play effectively, while also threatening him with marauders and such if he decides to come to the frontline (which  prolly won’t happen lol) and if the enemy is petrifax then I’ll be ignoring him anyways so. And 30 inch dispell range isn’t a huge deal if I plan ahead

 

[GeneralZero]

22 minutes ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

  You are right though, I would never run then at anything less than 15.

What is the loadout of those warriors?

I'm am hesitating to buy the great blade kit to make them hit at rend -1. So, how to build the unit?

[Gistradagis]

1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

What is the loadout of those warriors?

I'm am hesitating to buy the great blade kit to make them hit at rend -1. So, how to build the unit?

The classic style is to just run them with hand weapon and shield. They'll hit for sht, but have a decent defence against MW.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Gistradagis

[GeneralZero]

For you, the great blades are useless? We can run them with a mix of weapons, so the shields serve the saving, and the greatblades serve the damaging?

[PainfullyMediocre]

1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

I'm am hesitating to buy the great blade kit to make them hit at rend -1. So, how to build the unit?

How comfortable are you with converting? You can make great blades from the regular kit by cutting the top/bottom off hand weapons and gluing them together.

 

edit: Not mine, but the ones on the left/right

Edited February 13, 2020 by PainfullyMediocre

[GeneralZero]

The problem is not buying/money (10 bucks or less and look nice 😉 ) the problem is battlefield efficiency. I read that our warriors are resilient but do zero damage.  If you run them for example:

Unit of 15 warriors

the boss/aspiring champion with a greatblade

1 standart+ 1hornblower (considered to have weapon+shield

7 (for example can be more can be less)  greatblades

5 shields

When attaking, your front has at least (lets say) 5 attakers = 5*2+1 = 11 attaks with rend -1 and still have shields/survivability in the unit? Am I right?

[W1tchhunter]

10 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

The problem is not buying/money (10 bucks or less and look nice 😉 ) the problem is battlefield efficiency. I read that our warriors are resilient but do zero damage.  If you run them for example:

Unit of 15 warriors

the boss/aspiring champion with a greatblade

1 standart+ 1hornblower (considered to have weapon+shield

7 (for example can be more can be less)  greatblades

5 shields

When attaking, your front has at least (lets say) 5 attakers = 5*2+1 = 11 attaks with rend -1 and still have shields/survivability in the unit? Am I right?

You can't mix weapons 

[GeneralZero]

6 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

You can't mix weapons 

Reading the latest warscroll: "A unit of Chaos Warriors has any number of
models, each armed with one of the following
weapon options: Chaos Hand Weapon and
Chaos Runeshield; Chaos Halberd and Chaos
Runeshield; Chaos Greatblade; or pair of Chaos
Hand Weapons "

:  you can mix them.

 

[edit] contrary to most of other units: "The unit is armed with one of the following weapon options"

Edited February 13, 2020 by GeneralZero

[W1tchhunter]

2 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Reading the latest warscroll: "A unit of Chaos Warriors has any number of
models, each armed with one of the following
weapon options: Chaos Hand Weapon and
Chaos Runeshield; Chaos Halberd and Chaos
Runeshield; Chaos Greatblade; or pair of Chaos
Hand Weapons "

:  you can mix them.

It was FAQ'd

 

You can't mix them

[JackStreicher]

Just now, W1tchhunter said:

It was FAQ'd

 

You can't mix them

sadly.

[GeneralZero]

fock 😞  Problem solved then. Which FAQ was that?

[W1tchhunter]

Just now, GeneralZero said:

fock 😞  Problem solved then. Which FAQ was that?

It was the latest one we had, just Google Slaves to Darkness FAQ, think it was January?

[Eldarain]

Same one that neutered the Nurgle CA (It was too powerful, now terrible)  and made the warshrine not stack.

[Snakeb1te]

41 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

For you, the great blades are useless? We can run them with a mix of weapons, so the shields serve the saving, and the greatblades serve the damaging?

With rerolling 1s for instance, they have the same output as hand weapons I believe. The MW5+ save is so much more valuable than even a little more damage that the greatblades provide.

The only argument for a loadout that isn't sword and board, is for double handed weapons at units of 15+ (rerolling hit rolls and rerolling saves without needing buffs), and halberds, for the truly massive brick of warriors in narrow spaces.

Unfortunately, I think greatblades are pointless without any way to make them +1 to hit.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Snakeb1te

[Gistradagis]

48 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

With rerolling 1s for instance, they have the same output as hand weapons I believe. The MW5+ save is so much more valuable than even a little more damage that the greatblades provide.

The only argument for a loadout that isn't sword and board, is for double handed weapons at units of 15+ (rerolling hit rolls and rerolling saves without needing buffs), and halberds, for the truly massive brick of warriors in narrow spaces.

Unfortunately, I think greatblades are pointless without any way to make them +1 to hit.

Well, I'm of a mind of trying a block of 15+ Warriors with greatblades and Khorne mark. That way we get the sort of weapon they need to have a chance to do something, re-roll 1s to hit and have +1 to wound ("close" to the general).

I honestly don't know to what point the shield for the 5+ against MW is good. I've played like 3-4 games and haven't used them a single time. There aren't that many things that deal MW directly, and the ones that do will usually target a more valuable unit than Chaos Warriors.

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

4 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

What is the loadout of those warriors?

I'm am hesitating to buy the great blade kit to make them hit at rend -1. So, how to build the unit?

My Undivided Ravagers army runs two groups of 15 Chaos Warriors with Hand Weapon and Shield.  The models were built slightly before the new Battletome, and I wasn't going to bother getting an upgrade kit for the weapons not already on the sprue.  Just the same, I am okay hand weapon and shield compared to double hand weapons.  At H:3+, W: 3+ it is pretty consistent at yielding me some 7-8 wounds (between losses and getting reach) most of the game.   My Warriors aren't my preferred target for Daemonic Power or other combat buffs, so I can't see Great Weapons doing much better anyways being harder to hit and Rend -1 being more situational in its effectiveness considering fewer attacks connecting.  Halberds are the same since mixed weapons aren't allowed, and I can get most, well enough, Warriors within reach most of the time.

 

I could see the shield being situational depending on a player's meta.  I am typically making 1-3 Runic Shield attempts every game and saving somewhere in the neighborhood of about 5 wounds throughout a game.  I don't know if that is worthwhile or not as I don't really think about it since I am am not going to change my Warriors loadout.  The shields do tend to have a player level psychological effect from my opponents that become a bit frustrated I have any sort of defense to Mortal Wounds.  I think their plans revolve around the idea of removing models without issue.  When even a 33% save interferes as they appear like they have to think on their feet more than they wanted to.  I think my Warriors get targeted a whole lot less because of this.  I do enjoy the schadenfreude that occurs when they also start trying to put Mortal Wounds on my knights which is followed by a run down of what units of mine don't have MW defense.  At least until I have played them a few times these opponents seem overly annoyed they can't just damage these units outright. 

 

I think there are arguments to be made for most Warrior loadouts.  I like sword and board since I see Warriors as purely a land control unit and want as much defense as possible since the unsuppoted offense is always going to be lacking regardless of weapon choice.  Plus, I like the fact that if I decide on Mark of Khorne I am not doubling up on the same special ability which I think happens way to much in Slaves to Darkness.  Finally, I have never found myself wanting extra reach or Rend to give up more consistent hitting or wounding.    My Warriors are also on the bottom of the pile of units I want to give combat buffs (such as Warshrine or Daemonic Power) this hasn't been as much on an issue for me.

[readercolin]

So I spent some time mathhammering the comparison between the different chaos warriors.  It gets annoyingly complicated due to seeing if there are differences between the different marks.  So I spent the time to see what the results were for a block of 5 warriors with each weapon and each mark, as well as what a difference full re-rolls gives you.

Here are some of the results:

Facing off against a save of -
To no ones great surprise, against a save of - dual hand weapons do the most damage wtihout any buffs, and dual weapons are the same as weapon + shield with full re-rolls.  More interestingly, having a Khorne General is the biggest buff to power without other buffs for every unit except dual weapons, in which case the khorne general adds as much as a nurgle hero does.  With full re-rolls, the nurgle hero provides the biggest buff, followed by the slannesh hero buff, with khorne providing the least bonus (ignoring undivided/unbuffed).

Against a save of 4+
Here is a bit more surprising.  Without full re-rolls, dual hand weapons deal the most damage across the board.  Additionally, hand weapon + shield does the same damage as greatblades with any buff other than slannesh, with slannesh slightly outdamaging sword + shield.  With full re-rolls, then greatblades do more damage across the board, with the Nurgle buff being the most damage.  Once again, without re-rolls the Khorne general buff gives the greatest benefit across the board except that dual hand weapons match that with a nurgle buff.  With full re-rolls, once again the Nurgle buff is the largest, and khorne the least (ignoring undivided/unbuffed).

The overall conclusion that I can draw from this is that if you are wanting to have a unit run around without getting full re-rolls, you would get the best damage out of a unit of nurgle warriors with dual weapons.  However, if you want a block of warriors and you are willing to stick some buffs on them, then Nurgle Greatblades are a valid option.

As far as the shields MW shrug goes, I've had some matchups where it is irrelevant, and others where it has been a big deal.  Playing vs Bonereapers, Deepkin, KO, Cities, Fyreslayers, etc. the Shields are fairly pointless, as those factions don't have a plethora of mortal wounds that they produce, and instead rely on rend or just a ton of attacks.  Vs Ironjaws, Ogres, etc. there are enough casual mortal wounds flowing that the shrug has occasionally been relevant.  Overall, I rate the shields as ok, but not vital in most matchups, because you are going to take more damage from rend weapons then you are MW most of the time, and damage is something that slaves are usually lacking in, so getting a bit more is always nice.

However, in basically every case, you would be better damage wise spending 300 points on 40 marauders than you would 15 warriors.

[Bernival]

Hey guys, unrelated question, but I figured this is the best place to ask. I have a huge StD army but rarely get to play the game- have just started getting some semi regular games in and I had a question regarding auras. Namely, do heroes casting out an aura benefit from its effect? From my reading it seems like that is not the case, but i just wanted to clarify since i couldn't really find any info online about it. Thank you.

[Gistradagis]

7 minutes ago, Bernival said:

Hey guys, unrelated question, but I figured this is the best place to ask. I have a huge StD army but rarely get to play the game- have just started getting some semi regular games in and I had a question regarding auras. Namely, do heroes casting out an aura benefit from its effect? From my reading it seems like that is not the case, but i just wanted to clarify since i couldn't really find any info online about it. Thank you.

All the aura effects say something such as "Do X for friendly StD within Y" of this model (the hero)." Now, is the hero within those Y"? Yes, they are within 0" of themselves, to be specific. Are they a friendly StD unit? Yes. Consequently, all heroes are obviously affected by their own auras.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Gistradagis

[Bernival]

17 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

All the aura effects say something such as "Do X for friendly StD within Y" of this model (the hero)." Now, is the hero within those Y"? Yes, they are within 0" of themselves, to be specific. Are they a friendly StD unit? Yes. Consequently, all heroes are obviously affected by their own auras.

Oh, that's awesome! Thank you. I dont know why but I kept reading into it as the aura was projecting out from the model to 12 inches and wasnt affecting the model itself. That's great news!

 

[Gistradagis]

Just now, Bernival said:

Oh, that's awesome! Thank you. I dont know why but I kept reading into it as the aura was projecting out from the model to 12 inches and wasnt affecting the model itself. That's great news!

 

No problem, I had the same question at first too! It's very typical of videogames and such that auras projected from heroes and the like affect other troops, but not themselves.

[Lord Krungharr]

On 2/7/2020 at 10:40 AM, whispersofblood said:

 

Blue Scribes 2+ Spell portal, from 30.1" cast daemonrift through portal, If I can tag the Sorcerer, every unit within 7" of the spell portal can take  d3+sorcerer/spell portal/potential Be'lakor MW. Lord of Change dispels spell portal.

 

You can't cast an endless spell through the portal.  

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/age_of_sigmar_malign_sorcery_designers_commmentary_en.pdf

[whispersofblood]

39 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

You can't cast an endless spell through the portal.  

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/age_of_sigmar_malign_sorcery_designers_commmentary_en.pdf

You cast the spell and end it's movement within 6", it can be removed and set up again within 6" of the other mirror. 

[Roark]

10 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

What is the loadout of those warriors?

I'm am hesitating to buy the great blade kit to make them hit at rend -1. So, how to build the unit?

For units of 15 or more, I would take halberds and shields to fight in two ranks - absolutely any day of the week.

[Lord Krungharr]

18 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

You cast the spell and end it's movement within 6", it can be removed and set up again within 6" of the other mirror. 

Whoa!  That's pretty neat.  Might also be good for the Purple Sun then?