AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Gistradagis]

1 hour ago, begleysm said:

A nice improvement to the Knights would be to simply let them use the Lance on the charge and the Ensorcelled Weapons afterwards.   That's how Knights would actually operate anyhow: charge in with the Lance, drop it, pull your Ensorcelled Sword and fight on.  Hell, the sculpts are even modeled that way with swords in scabbards and lances in hand.

 

Maybe if that was too strong you could charge with the Lance once per battle (then it breaks/is dropped)

You're nuts. That would make the Knights efficient or something!

2 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

This is because they are build to be charger and nothing else.

Entangle an enemy unit and charge in. Make sure you can defeat the unit first

I guess that's fair. Since I'm running them to annoy/hold a point for a while due to building a Despoilers list with monsters, I might stick with Ensorcelled Weapons for their stability, as it'll be a unit of 5 and can't be sure I'll run it together with enough stuff to obliterate a unit on the first round. Although, now that I'm writing this, it would also make sense to get a charge with both a DP and knights, fight first with DP and then finish it off with the Knights on lances...

[Roark]

15 hours ago, KoalaSnok said:

Try comparing them to Bestigors and Grimghast reapers or even Graveguard and you might see why.

The screenshot below assumes a frontage of 10, no buffs whatsoever for the Chosen, and favourable conditions for all the Chosen's rivals (Bestigors charge and face Order, Grimghasts face unit of 5 or more).

But with an Undivided Shrine blessing and a Bloodsecrator ally for the Chosen (and nearby Marauders), they are doing about 30 damage to a 4+ enemy.

I think Chosen are awesome, and I'm really confused as to why people don't seem to have cottoned on yet. They're reasonably fast infantry that do MWs, buff other units and have easy access to rerolls to fish for more MWs. What am I missing?

[Roark]

In fact, forget about the Bloodsecrator. You're always gonna have a Warshrine though. Here's the Chosen with just that one Undivided Warshrine buff:

[Rod]

Well, our staying power is also a problem, fighting first units or fight in the hero phase are more and more common,

I still have nightmares about hearthguard wiping my chaos Knights.

 

[Grimrock]

1 hour ago, Roark said:

I think Chosen are awesome, and I'm really confused as to why people don't seem to have cottoned on yet. They're reasonably fast infantry that do MWs, buff other units and have easy access to rerolls to fish for more MWs. What am I missing?

Well I can only speak for myself but the only real reason I haven't tried them is I don't want to pay that much for the resin models. I've seen a couple decent conversions but nothing that grabbed me hard enough to want to put the work in either. 

Actually I wonder if model bias isn't one of the bigger issues we have. So many good units that just have old or awkward sculpts.

[Lord Krungharr]

I made this custom Jabberslythe but after checking out the Karkadrak Lord I’m hankering for one.    If I based it on the proper base and replaced the wings with a saddle and lord and gave it hind legs  would it pass?  Or should I just bite the bullet and buy the nice new  model?   All my other StD guys are super old school though. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Lord Krungharr
Forgot to add pictures

[begleysm]

41 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Or should I just bite the bullet and buy the nice new  model?

If you do decide to buy the new model, they're pretty readily available on eBay from people who have taken apart the Start Collecting box.

[JangutzKhan]

5 hours ago, Roark said:

In fact, forget about the Bloodsecrator. You're always gonna have a Warshrine though. Here's the Chosen with just that one Undivided Warshrine buff:

I agree Chosen are awesome, just need new models for them that arent metal or finecast. 

[KoalaSnok]

6 hours ago, Roark said:

The screenshot below assumes a frontage of 10

10 Chosen cost nearly twice the points of 10 Grimghast, twice those of Graveguard, and more than twice the points of bestigors. All of which get horde discounts. If you factor that you will "always have a warshrine", you should also factor that you will always have a necromancer for dance macabre on the undead options, giving fight twice in a much more reliable way than our Chaos Lord. Oh, and they also resurrect. The bestigors as you said, are way faster and can often t1 charge, while the Chosen will be trudging slowly across the battlefield or get teleported away from their synergies, and most probably fail the charge.

That being said, I am still tempted by them, but what really kills them for me are indeed those resin models. Were they just 20 points cheaper i might have considered converting them from Blood Warriros or such. But then I feel I would have to make entirely different lists to really build around them, and probably ditch all ordinary warriors.

Edited February 4, 2020 by KoalaSnok

[Charlo]

Thoughts on the Be'lakor allegiance? 

It looks fun with the core max sized of each basic daemon but does it have legs?

[JackStreicher]

10 hours ago, Roark said:

What am I missing?

 

Very old resin models. That is all

I am realizing with this army that I don‘t buy most units (though they‘re good) due to their old models.

I am currently running lists with mostly new models (except the Warshrine, but that one is fine) ^^

[Roark]

5 hours ago, KoalaSnok said:

10 Chosen cost nearly twice the points of 10 Grimghast, twice those of Graveguard, and more than twice the points of bestigors. All of which get horde discounts.

FYI, I gave the Grims two ranks. They were the only ones with 2" weapons.

The main reason I posted the calcs was in response to the talk about poor StD damage-dealing. I confess I'm coming at it from a Khorne perspective (which  isn't super helpful for your context), but Chosen have become like discounted Skullreapers for me, and easily my main damage dealers, way ahead of anything else...

And yeah, mine are converted. And it was painful. 😞

[Vitch_EGS]

Im only realising that cultist units ain't even battleline for some reason too.. So half of my list ideas are sacked.

[PainfullyMediocre]

I've been running 15 Chosen with Mark of Khorne backed up by a Khorne Lord. They hit hard, but they aren't easy to reposition and i've struggled with going through screens, which means they normally get hit with whatever is behind. I've changed my army up, but kept 5 in to be backline objective holders that can swing back at any outflanking or teleporting shenannigans.

When I run them in the future, I think i'll run them undivided as they normally get targeted. They aren't very tanky so I tend to lose 4 to battleshock a game, I think rerolling 1s isn't worth having 140 points just run away when they could just be immune.

 

edit: Also sod Finecast Mine are a mix of Chaos Knights, Forsaken, miscellaneous bitz and a lot of Greenstuff.

Edited February 4, 2020 by PainfullyMediocre

[Hamartia]

I have seen convertions mixing chaos knight heads and shields with blood warriors and it looks pretty good, aside from their head options blood warriors work very nicely for any chaos god as they have little in the way of khorne iconography.

It looks pretty nice but it is expensive. Granted it means you arent using old resin models.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Hamartia

[begleysm]

How do the Bloodreaver helmeted heads compare (in size) to the new (Slaves to Darkness Start Collecting box) warrior/knight heads?

[Eldarain]

Making an Everchosen list of 

Archaon Khorne

Sorc on Manticore Tzeentch Aetherquartz

2x 3 Khorne Ensorcelled Varanguard

40 Marauders

8 fold Sigil.

Tempted to go 8th circle for the ability to hop over Marauders and enemy screens. 

Thoughts? Is 6th just too good to pass up?

Edited February 5, 2020 by Eldarain

[Neverchosen]

On 1/22/2020 at 9:13 AM, annarborhawk said:

I don't see why not. They are a StD hero. So on the turn they are the general they should be able to use the ability.  (And, yes, it seems to me that means that Gaunt Summoners are summoning a whooping 60 wounds of stuff for free! (summoning 10 pink horrors with their new war scroll ultimately turn into 50 wounds + 10 wounds of marauders).  

Sorry for the delayed response, I was moving and as such my battletome was packed away and I was only able to get to it today.

On page 67 it states "f a unit already has a Damned Legion on its warscroll different to the one you chose, it cannot gain another. You can still include that unit in your army, but you cannot use the allegiance abilities for its damned legion". I assumed that meant that the Gaunt Summoner could not use Rally the Tribes as it is one of the Ravager's allegiance abilities and it has Everchosen listed on it's warscroll?  

Edited February 5, 2020 by Neverchosen

[KoalaSnok]

4 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

Sorry for the delayed response, I was moving and as such my battletome was packed away and I was only able to get to it today.

On page 67 it states "f a unit already has a Damned Legion on its warscroll different to the one you chose, it cannot gain another. You can still include that unit in your army, but you cannot use the allegiance abilities for its damned legion". I assumed that meant that the Gaunt Summoner could not use Rally the Tribes as it is one of the Ravager's allegiance abilities and it has Everchosen listed on it's warscroll?  

Indeed, that is correct. Good catch! -Nevermind, as Drib points out below the legion is "Host of the Everchosen".. Does the "Everchosen" keyword even do anything?

Edited February 5, 2020 by KoalaSnok

[Drib]

2 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

Sorry for the delayed response, I was moving and as such my battletome was packed away and I was only able to get to it today.

On page 67 it states "f a unit already has a Damned Legion on its warscroll different to the one you chose, it cannot gain another. You can still include that unit in your army, but you cannot use the allegiance abilities for its damned legion". I assumed that meant that the Gaunt Summoner could not use Rally the Tribes as it is one of the Ravager's allegiance abilities and it has Everchosen listed on it's warscroll?  

The damend legion ist not "Everchosen" but "Host of the Everchosen". 

[Kirjava13]

I have to agree with @JackStreicherwhen it comes to Chosen- as someone who only picked up Slaves because of the gorgeous new models, I'm not really very interested in much of the older finecast stuff. This is Chosen's real flaw... they just ain't shiny and new enough compared to the lovely dynamic Warriors and Knights in the SC box. 

[Lord Krungharr]

On 2/4/2020 at 2:57 AM, Charlo said:

Thoughts on the Be'lakor allegiance? 

It looks fun with the core max sized of each basic daemon but does it have legs?

I just read the article about it on BoLS and while I'm still unclear if Belakor has to be included in it, the abilities are pretty solid.  A universal 6++ to wounds AND mortal wounds is very nice.  That negates 1/6th of enemy damage, not counting any armor saves.   And rolling a 10 on 3D6 is pretty easy generally; summoning is always a welcome ability to have (and yet I own no basic Daemon Troops anymore!).  

Not sure about the battalions but the Slaanesh and Khorne ones could be good.  Can we presume the battalions will have the associated god keywords though?

[Neverchosen]

On 2/5/2020 at 2:55 AM, Drib said:

The damend legion ist not "Everchosen" but "Host of the Everchosen". 

So does that mean the rule that I posted does not currently apply to any unit?  I cannot find a single unit that contains a damned legion in its warscroll.

Sorry for harping on this rule,  I just really want to run a Gaunt Summoner in my Ravager list.

[begleysm]

37 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

So does that mean the rule that I posted does not currently apply to any unit?  I cannot find a single unit that contains a damned legion in its warscroll.

Sorry for harping on this rule,  I just really want to run a Gaunt Summoner in my Ravager list.

You can have a Gaunt Summoner.  Ravagers, Cabalists, Despoilers, & Host of the Everchosen are all types of Damned Legions.  However "Everchosen" is not a Damned Legion.

Edited February 6, 2020 by begleysm

[Kurrilino]

On 2/3/2020 at 5:14 PM, Rod said:

Well, our staying power is also a problem, fighting first units or fight in the hero phase are more and more common,

I still have nightmares about hearthguard wiping my chaos Knights.

 

Mind Kitty is our friend here