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AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion


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9 minutes ago, BrocknerTheBear said:

I think the only reservation I have with this book is that there is no "chaos lord and warriors" type faction inside it. Despoilers is okay but you cant even take a command trait in that one if your not a daemon prince. Feels like a massive missed moment for this book.

Wait....damn, didn´t noticed that one. Wow, thats....bad. And I was actually quite happy as the one trait would have been otherwise a neat way to provide the shroud of a DP to a non-dp-hero...meh. This is really a restriction that sucks.

 

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28 minutes ago, Gibs said:

Host of the Everchosen is the faction you pick for the army just like Despoilers, Ravagers or Cabalists. That is how I am reading it anyway.

You can take anything in that army unless I am missing something and provided it’s all ‘Host of the Everchosen’ then Varanguard are Battleline as are Warriors etc.  you only start getting into trouble if you take allies that cannot be part of the ‘Host of the Everchosen’.

A big block of unmovable warriors anchoring the middle seems worth dropping one set of Varanguard? Also gives the place for the Sorc to hide after turn 1. 

That's not how I saw it.  I tought the battleline restriction for varanguards was about the everchosen keyword on warscroll.  I will look again un the book.  But if you are right, it's better that way! Haha!  

So Archaon, 2x3 varanguards, 1 gaunt summoner and 10 warriors would be 1600 pts for a Solid base.

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2 minutes ago, Charleston said:

Wait....damn, didn´t noticed that one. Wow, thats....bad. And I was actually quite happy as the one trait would have been otherwise a neat way to provide the shroud of a DP to a non-dp-hero...meh. This is really a restriction that sucks.

 

Yeah a few people were running potential lists in front if me today and I had to tell them to re read it....the look on their faces was exactly the same as mine when I first saw it. 

It almost feels like a faction specific to the "warriors of chaos" style units was just left out.

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1 hour ago, Patriarch said:

That's not how I saw it.  I tought the battleline restriction for varanguards was about the everchosen keyword on warscroll.  I will look again un the book.  But if you are right, it's better that way! Haha!  

So Archaon, 2x3 varanguards, 1 gaunt summoner and 10 warriors would be 1600 pts for a Solid base.

I have been wrong before and probably will be again haha. 

That said, I have re-read this three times now and have not spotted the part that says a unit must be 'Everchosen' to be part of 'The Host of the Everchosen'....if you can point that out that would be really helpful as that is quite a significant restriction?

On the warscroll entry for Varanguard it says if all units are from the 'Host of the Everchosen' then they become battleline.

The only  restriction I am seeing is that you cannot bring in allied units if you want your Varanguard to still be battleline.  Any unit listed in the Slaves to Darkness book is viable to be part of the list without restriction. Chas Warriors being batteline means you can meet the 3 unit restriction. 

The lists I am considering (assuming the above) has 3 batteline units.

Host of the Everchosen

  • Archaon
  • Chaos Sorcerer Lord / Chaos Lord / Gaunt Summoner
  • Varanguard x3
  • Varanguard x3
  • Chaos Warriors (20)

Leaving 90 points to play around with. You can drop the Sorcerer and slide in a Gaunt Summoner (2000pts ) or go more aggressive and take a Chaos Lord for the command ability that lets a unit attack twice! You could even drop the Warriors for a unit of 10 Knights but I am not sure how much better that is than running another unit of Varanguard and taking the Battalion with the second circle though?

The Chaos Warriors are giving the list 40 wounds with a 4+ re-roll save and if Archaon is Nurgle everyone is getting -1 to hit against shooting and a little extra damage from rolling 6's. The Chaos Sorcerer Lord can give Archaon a re-rollable 3+ save in the early rounds against shooting combined with the -1 from Nurgle and can support the Chaos Warriors by buffing their hit and wound rolls and making sure they can re-roll saves even when below 10 models. The second threat is  having a unit of 20 Warriors or Varanguard that can be teleported making our opponent re-think their deployment. 

 

If you are going less than 15 Chaos Warriors I would be taking Marauders instead. Chaos Warriors without their re-roll-able save are not worth the points IMO. Also teleported Marauders are more reliable when it comes time to charge.  With Warriors you take the minimum number of shields required to get the 5+ Mortal Wound save for the unit and then you mix and match the rest of the weapons so the unit can put a dent in anything it ends up in combat with. Halberds are great for ensuring everyone gets to fight. Great weapons are awesome as the -1 rend makes them threatening against 3/4+ saves and the Sorcerer can buff the unit with +1 to hit and wound. Finally duel weapons mulch low save models! While the unit will go down  it isn't likely to take all 40 wounds in one or even two rounds of combat in most scenarios and with immunity to battle-shock its probably going down to the last man. Therefore, it becomes the anvil Varanguard and Archaon can play around and its a big enough unit that it cannot be ignored forever. 

 

 

Edited by Gibs
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I think I made my dream list. What do you guys think?

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Be'Lakor (240)
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- General
- Sword
- Trait: Paragon of Ruin
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
- Artefact: Diabolic Mantle
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Axes
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Axes
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
Plaguetouched Warband (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127

 
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45 minutes ago, BrocknerTheBear said:

Yeah a few people were running potential lists in front if me today and I had to tell them to re read it....the look on their faces was exactly the same as mine when I first saw it. 

It almost feels like a faction specific to the "warriors of chaos" style units was just left out.

It’s ravagers. Your cultists and Marauders are auxiliaries.

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36 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

It’s ravagers. Your cultists and Marauders are auxiliaries.

Not wrong

37 minutes ago, grucha said:

I think I made my dream list. What do you guys think?

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Be'Lakor (240)
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- General
- Sword
- Trait: Paragon of Ruin
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
- Artefact: Diabolic Mantle
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Axes
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Axes
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
Plaguetouched Warband (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127

 

Make the knights a 10 man unit so all your knights benefit from the reroll saves and 1 use of the chaos Lord command ability.

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12 hours ago, Gibs said:

My biggest issue is that he does not have the Monster keyword and his command ability is the same as a Chaos Lord on Demonic Mount that is 80 points cheaper and funnily enough is classified as a Monster......

After running the numbers, the lord on Karkadrak actually looks okay; maybe not quite up to par for a really competitive list, but the bar is high there. He's about as strong as the manticore lord baseline for ~10% cheaper.

~10.1 damage from all the attacks baseline, not counting any bonuses from marks. Aura of Khorne pushes that to ~14.6ish (Over 18 with the extra attacks from a Bloodsecrator), Slaanesh to ~12.6ish. Nurgle adds less to the damage, but you get the -1 to be hit from shooting.

He puts out way more damage than a DP; ~60% more on the charge (~40% more from the attacks, but also d3 mortal wounds on a 2+), and close to double the rest of the time, and with innate wound recovery in combat and a 5+ mortal wound shrug, he's quite a bit tougher to take down. The Lord on Daemonic mount does less than half the damage the lord on Karkadrak does, and has a worse save, so the extra points you pay for the Karkadrak are probably worth it.

I don't think the monster keyword is particularly important, even in a despoilers list; it's a 4+ in your hero phases to heal d3 wounds, so average 1 per round, and there are downsides to the keyword as well, since some units get bonuses against monsters. The terrain will only hurt him 1/6 of the time, and he gets a 5+ save against it, and with no shooting attack, the line of sight restriction doesn't matter at all.

~3 Khorne DPs (because they have the best output) and a Karkadrak lord with Helm of many eyes might have some potential in a despoilers list for some kind of strike first monster mash + ruinbringer list (maybe a manticore lord without ruinbringer, but the Karkadrak might be better). Each DP is doing ~10 damage on the charge, and the Karkadrak is doing ~18 (with the extra d3 mortal wounds from ruinbringer). That's 46 damage before the opponent can attack back on average, and all of the battleline is also doing mortal wounds at the start of the combat phase when they charge, and everything in the list is fast except maybe some units to sit on objectives, like iron golems. We've seen what those sorts of lists can do with FEC and Khorne in the past, and the Khorne DP command ability making charges way less reliable for the opponent could work really well with it.

Edited by Asamu
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@Asamu I like your conciderations about that first strike Ruinbringer list. In this case Chariots are the optimal choice to fill the battalion. They are fast, with 120pts reasonable priced, can run and charge once per game and do also impact damage on their own, which nets you another 1-2(+d3 from ruinbringer) MW´s.

Also, when running Khorne, Mighty Skullcrushers might be worth concidering, as they do a solid charge damage when 6+ models.

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24 minutes ago, Asamu said:

After running the numbers, the lord on Karkadrak actually looks okay; maybe not quite up to par for a really competitive list, but the bar is high there. He's about as strong as the manticore lord baseline for ~10% cheaper.

~10.1 damage from all the attacks baseline, not counting any bonuses from marks. Aura of Khorne pushes that to ~14.6ish (Over 18 with the extra attacks from a Bloodsecrator), Slaanesh to ~12.6ish. Nurgle adds less to the damage, but you get the -1 to be hit from shooting.

He puts out way more damage than a DP; ~60% more on the charge (~40% more from the attacks, but also d3 mortal wounds on a 2+), and close to double the rest of the time, and with innate wound recovery in combat and a 5+ mortal wound shrug, he's quite a bit tougher to take down. The Lord on Daemonic mount does less than half the damage the lord on Karkadrak does, and has a worse save, so the extra points you pay for the Karkadrak are probably worth it.

I don't think the monster keyword is particularly important, even in a despoilers list; it's a 4+ in your hero phases to heal d3 wounds, so average 1 per round, and there are downsides to the keyword as well, since some units get bonuses against monsters. The terrain will only hurt him 1/6 of the time, and he gets a 5+ save against it, and with no shooting attack, the line of sight restriction doesn't matter at all.

~3 Khorne DPs (because they have the best output) and a Karkadrak lord with Helm of many eyes might have some potential in a despoilers list for some kind of strike first monster mash + ruinbringer list (maybe a manticore lord without ruinbringer, but the Karkadrak might be better). Each DP is doing ~10 damage on the charge, and the Karkadrak is doing ~18 (with the extra d3 mortal wounds from ruinbringer). That's 46 damage before the opponent can attack back on average, and all of the battleline is also doing mortal wounds at the start of the combat phase when they charge, and everything in the list is fast except maybe some units to sit on objectives, like iron golems. We've seen what those sorts of lists can do with FEC and Khorne in the past, and the Khorne DP command ability making charges way less reliable for the opponent could work really well with it.

I actually got it wrong and the Demonic Mount Lord does not have the Monster keyword so you don't even get the healing. Khorne with the Helm of Many eyes feels to me like the best combination in Ruinbringers as between the impact hits and attacking firsts you are relatively safe against when in combat. Still not convinced he is 250 points of awesome but he is certainly no slouch. 

What is your take on Chariots as a first strike weapon in Ruinbringers?

Edited by Gibs
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Maybe Im missing something but from the keywords and abilities the Warqueen, Myrmidon and Chieftain are pointless unless youre running a warcry army. Despite the allegience ability saying all heroes have the Aura of Chaos ability. Neither of those 3 heroes have a mark, neither undivided nor the option to be given a mark so they cannot provide an aura of chaos. I was really looking forward to making a marauder themed army led by a warqueen and chieftain but if they dont have an aura of chaos then why even use them?

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20 minutes ago, Gibs said:

I actually got it wrong and the Demonic Mount Lord does not have the Monster keyword so you don't even get the healing. Khorne with the Helm of Many eyes feels to me like the best combination in Ruinbringers as between the impact hits and attacking firsts you are relatively safe against when in combat. Still not convinced he is 250 points of awesome but he is certainly no slouch. 

What is your take on Chariots as a first strike weapon in Ruinbringers?

Hard to say. You can potentially get some turn 1 charges in, but chariots are super fragile for 120 points with only 7 wounds, and they don't do all that much damage. In a ruinbringer, you're looking at an average of 4 mortal wounds on the charge ~9 damage total after they attack, which is okay, but I find it really hard to justify over bringing knights or marauder cav, which get a lot more wounds for what you pay and can screen for the monsters. The chariots are going to die after they charge unless it's against chaff. If you can minimize what can swing back at them, then maybe they turn up. I think the best use will probably be clearing out screens for the Demon princes/Karkadrak lord so they can get onto something a bit more valuable, but Knights or marauder cav alongside the Karkadrak lord can do that as well in a ruinbringer warband, if not quite as well.

I think you run maybe 3 chariots at the most (probably 1 or 2, if any); any more than that, and you don't have enough bodies for capturing objectives and screening against alpha strikes.

2 minutes ago, Argonoch said:

Maybe Im missing something but from the keywords and abilities the Warqueen, Myrmidon and Chieftain are pointless unless youre running a warcry army. Despite the allegience ability saying all heroes have the Aura of Chaos ability. Neither of those 3 heroes have a mark, neither undivided nor the option to be given a mark so they cannot provide an aura of chaos. I was really looking forward to making a marauder themed army led by a warqueen and chieftain but if they dont have an aura of chaos then why even use them?

Correct, and a full warcry army does not look at all competitive.

I think one chieftain and/or warqueen in a ravagers list, just for the command ability, has some merit, but I find it hard to justify over bringing another chaos lord or sorcerer.

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24 minutes ago, Argonoch said:

Maybe Im missing something but from the keywords and abilities the Warqueen, Myrmidon and Chieftain are pointless unless youre running a warcry army. Despite the allegience ability saying all heroes have the Aura of Chaos ability. Neither of those 3 heroes have a mark, neither undivided nor the option to be given a mark so they cannot provide an aura of chaos. I was really looking forward to making a marauder themed army led by a warqueen and chieftain but if they dont have an aura of chaos then why even use them?

warqueen and chieftain still give buffs to marauders. Sure they can't give aura buffs, but you want a chaos lord following them anyways for double pile in. Also Warqueen is a good duelist as she fights first, and does 2 damage vs monsters and heroes. Give her blade of symmetry and she's doing 3 damage swings. Chieftain needs a bit of assistance in that he's 4/3's but 6 attacks still on the charge can help him bring some extra damage. 

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1 hour ago, Argonoch said:

Maybe Im missing something but from the keywords and abilities the Warqueen, Myrmidon and Chieftain are pointless unless youre running a warcry army. Despite the allegience ability saying all heroes have the Aura of Chaos ability. Neither of those 3 heroes have a mark, neither undivided nor the option to be given a mark so they cannot provide an aura of chaos. I was really looking forward to making a marauder themed army led by a warqueen and chieftain but if they dont have an aura of chaos then why even use them?

Warqueen gives all chaos marauders +3 to charge wholly within 12", which is easy to do. 

 

I'm doing a chaos Lance style army as follows that uses her:

Chaos Lord of nurgle

Sorcerer Lord of nurgle

Sorcerer Lord or nurgle general

Darkoath Warqueen

Chaos Lord on karkadrak of slannesh

 

6x5 marauders horsemen is slannesh

10x Chaos Knights of slannesh

 

9x untamed beast

9x untamed beast

9x untamed beast

 

+1 cp

 

1970/2000

 

All the marauders do a Lance style charge getting single models in base contact to spam d3 mortals, potantially getting the karkadrak for his 2d3 mortal wounds. 

 

The darkoath Warqueen gives them all +3 to charge and slannesh aura means when the karkadrak is general they all reroll charges.

 

Knights love sorcer lord's for rerolls, and chaos Lord with 10 knights is great. 

 

Most CP is spent on summoning warcry warbands like iron golems. 

 

Nurgle mark gives all the important buffing hero's -1 to be hit from shooting early on. 

 

One untamed beast squad can be dropped later for a mindstealer.

Edited by mmimzie
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3 hours ago, Argonoch said:

Maybe Im missing something but from the keywords and abilities the Warqueen, Myrmidon and Chieftain are pointless unless youre running a warcry army. Despite the allegience ability saying all heroes have the Aura of Chaos ability. Neither of those 3 heroes have a mark, neither undivided nor the option to be given a mark so they cannot provide an aura of chaos. I was really looking forward to making a marauder themed army led by a warqueen and chieftain but if they dont have an aura of chaos then why even use them?

Warqueen and chieftain CP abilities work on marauders and they are pretty strong and cheap. Just take separate source of aura.

I guess it makes sense in lore because they are random barbarians not infused with chaos powers yet and they use tribe shamans (who are represented by sorcerers in game) for chaos powers.

Edited by Smooth criminal
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32 minutes ago, TheVenerableBede said:

Hi all,

How do you guys and gals read the restrictions on the Plaguetouched Warband? Can the 7 mortal Nurgle units include heroes in addition to the one hero that is mandatory?

Yes, this has always been allowed, and it's been in the FAQs somewhere since very early in AoS.

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16 hours ago, Gibs said:

I have been wrong before and probably will be again haha. 

That said, I have re-read this three times now and have not spotted the part that says a unit must be 'Everchosen' to be part of 'The Host of the Everchosen'....if you can point that out that would be really helpful as that is quite a significant restriction?

On the warscroll entry for Varanguard it says if all units are from the 'Host of the Everchosen' then they become battleline.

The only  restriction I am seeing is that you cannot bring in allied units if you want your Varanguard to still be battleline.  Any unit listed in the Slaves to Darkness book is viable to be part of the list without restriction. Chas Warriors being batteline means you can meet the 3 unit restriction. 

The lists I am considering (assuming the above) has 3 batteline units.

Host of the Everchosen

  • Archaon
  • Chaos Sorcerer Lord / Chaos Lord / Gaunt Summoner
  • Varanguard x3
  • Varanguard x3
  • Chaos Warriors (20)

Leaving 90 points to play around with. You can drop the Sorcerer and slide in a Gaunt Summoner (2000pts ) or go more aggressive and take a Chaos Lord for the command ability that lets a unit attack twice! You could even drop the Warriors for a unit of 10 Knights but I am not sure how much better that is than running another unit of Varanguard and taking the Battalion with the second circle though?

The Chaos Warriors are giving the list 40 wounds with a 4+ re-roll save and if Archaon is Nurgle everyone is getting -1 to hit against shooting and a little extra damage from rolling 6's. The Chaos Sorcerer Lord can give Archaon a re-rollable 3+ save in the early rounds against shooting combined with the -1 from Nurgle and can support the Chaos Warriors by buffing their hit and wound rolls and making sure they can re-roll saves even when below 10 models. The second threat is  having a unit of 20 Warriors or Varanguard that can be teleported making our opponent re-think their deployment. 

 

If you are going less than 15 Chaos Warriors I would be taking Marauders instead. Chaos Warriors without their re-roll-able save are not worth the points IMO. Also teleported Marauders are more reliable when it comes time to charge.  With Warriors you take the minimum number of shields required to get the 5+ Mortal Wound save for the unit and then you mix and match the rest of the weapons so the unit can put a dent in anything it ends up in combat with. Halberds are great for ensuring everyone gets to fight. Great weapons are awesome as the -1 rend makes them threatening against 3/4+ saves and the Sorcerer can buff the unit with +1 to hit and wound. Finally duel weapons mulch low save models! While the unit will go down  it isn't likely to take all 40 wounds in one or even two rounds of combat in most scenarios and with immunity to battle-shock its probably going down to the last man. Therefore, it becomes the anvil Varanguard and Archaon can play around and its a big enough unit that it cannot be ignored forever. 

 

 

I looked at the book and i was wrong.  Varanguards are battlelines for host of the everchosen.  You were right.  I see many possibilities now!

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8 minutes ago, Forrix said:

How are people rating Iron Golems? 70 points for 10 wounds with a built in 4+ reroll save looks pretty good. Though no marks is a big draw back.

I like them. They might not get a mark, but that also means that there is nothing wasted when they are outside the aura of a hero. Combined with their cheap cost, +2 bravery and  high defence, there is really very little lost when they are just sitting on a backfield objective or screening som more valuable unit. Furthermore, their shooting attack (the best one of the cultist units), whilst very poor, it is just as good as their melee attack. So there is nothing lost when you move them up the board and shoot instead of charging. This way, there is very little risk of them ever being in a fight without their save reroll.

This gives Iron Golems their own niche, whilst most of the other cultist units do similar jobs to marauders, marauder horsemen or furies, which are all way better at it. Though I'm sure that you could find good use for the pre-game movement of Untamed Beasts  or possibly the (unreliable) debuff from Cypher Lords.

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I'm currently playing BoC but considering Slaves as allies and possibly a full second army. I went into GW to see which models have survived the new battletome but both the tome and warscroll cards and cling wrapped and nobody could provide me with a list of the units included in the warscroll cards set - please would any of you lovely StD people be able to help?

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5 minutes ago, Forehead said:

I'm currently playing BoC but considering Slaves as allies and possibly a full second army. I went into GW to see which models have survived the new battletome but both the tome and warscroll cards and cling wrapped and nobody could provide me with a list of the units included in the warscroll cards set - please would any of you lovely StD people be able to help?

You can see all the units on GW's homepage under 'age of sigmar > slaves to darkness' all the remaining units are there, except for the Warcry/slaves to darkness units that are released at the start of new year. (Ogroid Myrmidon, Sphiranx, Fomoroid Crusher and the Spire Tyrants).

I don't think anything has been removed, they have actually added a ton of models, like the Archaon, Varanguard, Be'lakor, Gaunt Summoner,  Soul Grinder, Vortex Beast, Slaughterbrute, Dark Oath heroes  and all the Warcry models.

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I'm looking at Cultist units to use alongside my armoured boys because I really do not like the marauder models (rip) but love the warcry models. Looking at the warscrolls I'm really considering unmade with the amount of attacks they can throw out (and the scythes on the blissful ones). My favourite looking warbands are the corvus cabal and the cypher lords but they just don't really look like they'll be able to do enough in terms of attacks unfortunately (though the fly on the corvus could warrant them as early objective grabbers) 

I know marauders are generally the go-to because they do the job better but is there much potential for something like the unmade to be able to throw down alongside an army? (rather than being the main focus etc)

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