AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Kurrilino]

On 7/31/2020 at 5:52 PM, Orodhen said:

What do you guys think about the Anvil of Apotheosis? The +1 to saves ability from the champion archetype could work well with a block of warriors.

We think it's illegal to be used, so nobody cares about the anvil

[Kurrilino]

On 8/4/2020 at 5:15 PM, Khendall said:

Hi fellow Chosens, what do you think of this list ?

 

Damned Legion - Host of the Everchosen - Third Circle

Archaon The Everchosen - Whispers of Chaos - Mark of Nurgle : 800 pts

Harbinger of Decay - ally : 160 pts

Varanguard x3 - Deamonforged Blades - Mark of Nurgle: 280 pts

Varanguard x3 - Deamonforged Blades - Mark of Nurgle: 280 pts

Chaos Warriors x5 - Hand Weapon & Shield - Mark of Nurgle: 90 pts

Chaos Spawn - Mark of Nurgle: 50 pts

Chaos Spawn - Mark of Nurgle: 50 pts

Chaos Spawn - Mark of Nurgle: 50 pts

Chaos Spawn - Mark of Nurgle: 50 pts

Plaguetouched Warband : 180 pts

 87  LP -  1990 / 2000 pts

 

=> 2 drops, -1 hit (-2 on Varanguards) for missiles, 7'' not wholly within 5+ FnP Aura with the Haringer of Decay, the +1 dmg on 6s to wound + the 6s melee hits returning mortal damages with the battalion

This list will lose you every game since you can't get any objective and have zero firepower.

[Dressedspring1]

On 8/4/2020 at 7:15 PM, Khendall said:

Hi fellow Chosens, what do you think of this list ?

 

Damned Legion - Host of the Everchosen - Third Circle

Archaon The Everchosen - Whispers of Chaos - Mark of Nurgle : 800 pts

Harbinger of Decay - ally : 160 pts

Varanguard x3 - Deamonforged Blades - Mark of Nurgle: 280 pts

Varanguard x3 - Deamonforged Blades - Mark of Nurgle: 280 pts

Chaos Warriors x5 - Hand Weapon & Shield - Mark of Nurgle: 90 pts

Chaos Spawn - Mark of Nurgle: 50 pts

Chaos Spawn - Mark of Nurgle: 50 pts

Chaos Spawn - Mark of Nurgle: 50 pts

Chaos Spawn - Mark of Nurgle: 50 pts

Plaguetouched Warband : 180 pts

 87  LP -  1990 / 2000 pts

 

=> 2 drops, -1 hit (-2 on Varanguards) for missiles, 7'' not wholly within 5+ FnP Aura with the Haringer of Decay, the +1 dmg on 6s to wound + the 6s melee hits returning mortal damages with the battalion

If you’re taking varanguard you really want to take sixth circle, otherwise they struggle to be worth the points. 
 

 

other than that I think the spawns are not great. You can justify a single spawn to make a battalion work, but 4 spawns + the cost of the battalion means you’re paying 380 points for plaguetouched warband which just 100% is not worth it. 

[Eldarain]

Especially when Mr. 800 points is already in the list. I like the idea of trying a Max unit of Chaos Warriors with the Harbinger. I also always try and get at least one Sorceror in as Oracular is one of the best automatic abilities in game.

Archaon Nurgle

Sorceror

Harbinger

2x 3 Ensorcelled Varan Nurgle 6th Circle

20 Chaos Warriors Nurgle.

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Eldarain

[JackStreicher]

@JCar09 it‘s still pretty hard to make them all fight then. The bases are just too large.

[JCar09]

 

I think that the spears with knights make sense especially in carrying them in 10, otherwise the swords would be superior in most cases. With the 2 inches and its movement it is quite easy to hit with a large number of them. In this way we can greatly exploit the buffs that we can give them ... (oracle visions, daemonic power, karkadrak buff) and destroy 1 or two units without being touched.

[JackStreicher]

@JCar09 in my experience game boards tend to have terrain and the knights‘ bases are huge, so huge that in fact I never managed to strike with more than 7 due to Terrain it other units being in the way. I usually manage to get in 5-6 and even that barely.

[Kurrilino]

4 hours ago, JCar09 said:

 

I think that the spears with knights make sense especially in carrying them in 10, otherwise the swords would be superior in most cases. With the 2 inches and its movement it is quite easy to hit with a large number of them. In this way we can greatly exploit the buffs that we can give them ... (oracle visions, daemonic power, karkadrak buff) and destroy 1 or two units without being touched.

Yeah i don't know............. it's not that easy. This is just looking at stats.

The bases are just huge. And even if we have 10 knights we do 20 wounds at max and in reality our magic is shut down as well.

Every Army has now an auto dispell some even table wide and +4million to dispell

Doing 10 wounds would be more realistic.  A unit with 10 wounds would be way too small to get 10 knights in.

[Khendall]

15 hours ago, Eldarain said:

Especially when Mr. 800 points is already in the list. I like the idea of trying a Max unit of Chaos Warriors with the Harbinger. I also always try and get at least one Sorceror in as Oracular is one of the best automatic abilities in game.

Archaon Nurgle

Sorceror

Harbinger

2x 3 Ensorcelled Varan Nurgle 6th Circle

20 Chaos Warriors Nurgle.

 

Indeed you’re all right, was trying to get the best of the Mark of Nurgle, since the meta is all about shooting phase. Didn’t try the plaguetouched battalion just yet but i guess it’s no use.

 

Guess I’ll stick with my Archaonesh list 

6th Circle - Mark of Slaanesh

Archaon : 800

The Contorted Epitome : 210

Chaos Sorcerer : 110

Varanguard x3 : 280

Varanguard x3 : 280

Chaos Warriors x10 : 180

Mesmerising Mirror : 60

Wheels of Excruciation : 50

1970 / 2000

 

Let me know what is to improve on this one

[Eldarain]

I would definitely try a version of the Nurgle list with the anti ranged Circle. 6th isn't much use if you're full of arrows.

[Khendall]

 

7 minutes ago, Eldarain said:

I would definitely try a version of the Nurgle list with the anti ranged Circle. 6th isn't much use if you're full of arrows.

 

All right then

 

Host of the Everchosen - 3rd Circle - Mark of Nurgle

Archaon : 800

Harbinger of Decay : 160

Chaos Sorcerer : 110

Varanguard x3 : 280

Varanguard x3 : 280

Chaos Warriors x20 : 360

(Halberds or Greatblades ?)

1999 / 2000

[Eldarain]

I would think Halberds as Nurgle wants as many hits as possible for proccing the 6s to wound and their big bases makes getting volume in with Greatblades difficult.

[sharang2]

here is the beginning of my future plaguetouched warband

 

 

 

6 likes

[Kurrilino]

2 hours ago, Khendall said:

 

 

All right then

 

Host of the Everchosen - 3rd Circle - Mark of Nurgle

Archaon : 800

Harbinger of Decay : 160

Chaos Sorcerer : 110

Varanguard x3 : 280

Varanguard x3 : 280

Chaos Warriors x20 : 360

(Halberds or Greatblades ?)

1999 / 2000

At this point you we can take out Archaeon, switch to Nurgle book and include Glottkin.

We raise the warriors to 25 and include the Lord of Blight (-2 to hit 20+ models). I always end at that conclusion. The reroll 6's to hit artifact and the -to hit is too good to pass compared to the StD garbage.

But this is only my 2 cents.

 

 

 

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

@Jcar09

I run 10 man units of knights all the time.  I just like they way they look in big groups, and they can pull some double duty as brick units until my slower stuff gets there.  I also don't play super optimized.  That said, I can tell you it is incredibly rare when I can get more than 7 Knights into anything.  The 2" reach doesn't get much since the bases are so wide staggering them can create gaps more than 1" wide easy if your opponent has a choose which model to remove ability.  Not to mention any terrain or even the enemy unit footprint is going to stifle that pretty easy.  Knights also only have a 10" Move, so you're going to get charges that just don't connect as solid as you'd like a good portion of the time.

The spoiler is perhaps the best charge I ever managed.  It came after me getting a double turn allowing me to be 3" away plus rolling an 11 allowing me to completely encircle the missing KO unit.  Even pulling off the charge and getting 10 attacks was no guarantee that I would delete the unit so I wanted to make sure it couldn't get away easily.  Fortunately, my luck was good and my opponent's wasn't and cleared them to allow me to push to the center back of my opponent's forces.

The first photo is my Command phase and the second was end of turn. Note: the Altar of Skulls was there for decorative purposes and not an active terrain piece.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Saturmorn Carvilli

[shadowgra]

After a few months playing STD i do think that knights almost always must be taken in units of 5 unless you really want a mobile anvil.

And i like ENS weapons more for 2 reasons:

1) more consistent damage output

2) they do not rely on charge. This is pretty huge because in some scenarios you are not able to charge without disrupting your placement on objective. Also in the charging factor you are forgotting to include the opponent: if they get charged they are simply done.

That being said, i do think that at 160 they are pretty good. In my list i use almost always 2 units of 5, they add some rend, mobility and they are Battleline for objectives.

 

Edit: oh and regarding the mark, the only one that imho rewards taking lances is slaanesh. Khorne works for both and Nurgle absolutely wants ENS weapons.

Edited August 7, 2020 by shadowgra

[Khendall]

14 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

At this point you we can take out Archaeon, switch to Nurgle book and include Glottkin.

We raise the warriors to 25 and include the Lord of Blight (-2 to hit 20+ models). I always end at that conclusion. The reroll 6's to hit artifact and the -to hit is too good to pass compared to the StD garbage.

But this is only my 2 cents.

 

 

 

Indeed Nurgle is stronger in defense but still, Archaon and Varanguards as battlelines is what StD stands for. You can't ignore the damage output of those Everchosen. That is why I'm trying to find the best way to make the better use of these fellows.

Maybe the best StD will be something like :

 

Host of the Everchosen - 8th Circle

Archaon The Everchosen : 800 pts

Varanguards x3 : 280 pts

Varanguards x3 : 280 pts

Varanguards x3 : 280 pts

Varanguards x3 : 280 pts

Chronomantic Cogs : 80 pts

2000 / 2000

 

With only 4 drops, you got your 4 units of flying Varanguards 12'' move and +2 charge with cogs, double pile-in; Archaon with his Will of The Everchosen ability for rerolling 1's on hits and wounds and if Dark Prophecy gives you the 2nd turn you'll get triple strike.

Mark of Slaanesh if you play the Daemonforged Blades for 3 attacks 2+/3+/-1/D3 with exploding 6's on hits and mortal wounds with each 6's on wounds

Mark of Khorne if you play Felspears for 3 attacks 2+/2+/-2/2  rerolling 1's on hits when you charge

Mark of Nurgle if you play Ensorcelled Weapons  for 6 attacks 2+/3+/-1/1 with bonus damages on 6's to wound

I'm not sure about the Tzeentch or Undivided version.

[Kurrilino]

5 minutes ago, Khendall said:

Indeed Nurgle is stronger in defense but still, Archaon and Varanguards as battlelines is what StD stands for. You can't ignore the damage output of those Everchosen. That is why I'm trying to find the best way to make the better use of these fellows.

Maybe the best StD will be something like :

 

Host of the Everchosen - 8th Circle

Archaon The Everchosen : 800 pts

Varanguards x3 : 280 pts

Varanguards x3 : 280 pts

Varanguards x3 : 280 pts

Varanguards x3 : 280 pts

Chronomantic Cogs : 80 pts

2000 / 2000

 

With only 4 drops, you got your 4 units of flying Varanguards 12'' move and +2 charge with cogs, double pile-in; Archaon with his Will of The Everchosen ability for rerolling 1's on hits and wounds and if Dark Prophecy gives you the 2nd turn you'll get triple strike.

Mark of Slaanesh if you play the Daemonforged Blades for 3 attacks 2+/3+/-1/D3 with exploding 6's on hits and mortal wounds with each 6's on wounds

Mark of Khorne if you play Felspears for 3 attacks 2+/2+/-2/2  rerolling 1's on hits when you charge

Mark of Nurgle if you play Ensorcelled Weapons  for 6 attacks 2+/3+/-1/1 with bonus damages on 6's to wound

I'm not sure about the Tzeentch or Undivided version.

The problem with all that is we are not in WHF anymore where the target was to steamroll the opponent. On top we have now opponents who ignore rend.

Getting objectives needs numbers and this is where StD are on a loss. The meta right now are hordes and ignore battleshock because of this reason.

And there are lots of little cheap road block units available to hold Varanguards for a turn.

We have nothing beside Chaos Warriors that can hold objectives. Sadly this unit turned from one of the best to one of the worst battlelines.

 

I still hope someone can come up with a list that makes some sense and gives at least a little chance of not being wiped of the board.

But in my opinion StD are better played in the other books

 

[SleeperAgent]

Little late to this chaos party, if I take Host of the Everchosen can I just pick an artefact from any of the legions? (Ravagers/Despoilers/Cabalists?) Or do I have to use the realm artefacts?

Also, if my whole army is Slaves to Darkness units (Archaon, Varanguard, Chaos Knight, Chaos Warriors) can I just play them as any chaos god book since Warriors are generic chaos battleline? Like the whole army can be Khorne and use Khorne allegiance abilities and artefacts/command traits?

Edited August 9, 2020 by SleeperAgent

[Grimrock]

6 minutes ago, SleeperAgent said:

Little late to this chaos party, if I take Host of the Everchosen can I just pick an artefact from any of the legions? (Ravagers/Despoilers/Cabalists?) Or do I have to use the realm artefacts?

Also, if my whole army is Slaves to Darkness units (Archaon, Varanguard, Chaos Knight, Chaos Warriors) can I just play them as any chaos god book since Warriors are generic chaos battleline? Like the whole army can be Khorne and use Khorne allegiance abilities and artefacts/command traits?

1) You can only use realm artefacts. There was some discussion on if you could even take those for a while but there was never an official FAQ on the matter so it kind of settled on the most likely case that you're allowed.

2) Yes, as long as you mark them appropriately you can put them in whatever allegiance you want and choose to use that allegiance instead of Slaves to Darkness. Obvious limitations are Slaves units that can't take a mark (like cultists) would count as allies but could still be included up to the usual limits. One of the best parts of the faction in my opinion and a number of the units are absolutely stellar in the different allegiances.

[SleeperAgent]

I'm thinking something like this for S2D Tzeentch allegiance. This isn't for tournaments, just for fun but competitive games.

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Cult of a Thousand Eyes (Host of Chaos)
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (230)
- General
- Command Trait: Tzeentch is Pleased
- Artefact: Crown of Whispers
Archaon the Everchosen (800)
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch

Battleline
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield

Units
3 x Varanguard (280)
- 3x Fellspears
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Cursed Lance
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Cursed Lance

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114
 

[Eorek]

I put some colour on my be'lakor! Base soon to follow!

[Scurvydog]

Trying to look at a somewhat competetive StD list. I am aware this will not compete with the likes of top Tzeentch lists or some such, but what do you guys think about it?:

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Despoilers
Be'Lakor (240)
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- General
- Sword
- Command Trait: Paragon of Ruin
- Artefact: Diabolic Mantle
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (230)
- Artefact: Helm of Many Eyes
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
40 x Chaos Marauders (320)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
1 x Chaos Chariots (120)
- Greatblades
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (110)
- Axes & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Ruinbringer Warband (140)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 129

[shadowgra]

2 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Trying to look at a somewhat competetive StD list. I am aware this will not compete with the likes of top Tzeentch lists or some such, but what do you guys think about it?:

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Despoilers
Be'Lakor (240)
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- General
- Sword
- Command Trait: Paragon of Ruin
- Artefact: Diabolic Mantle
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (230)
- Artefact: Helm of Many Eyes
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
40 x Chaos Marauders (320)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
1 x Chaos Chariots (120)
- Greatblades
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (110)
- Axes & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Ruinbringer Warband (140)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 129

I would drop marauders horsemen, chariots and battalion in order to have more mass.

Also karkadrak is not that good without rend artefacts, expecially in khorne despoilers. I would drop him too.

This gains you 600 points if i am not mistaken.

40 more marauders are very much needed.

The last 280 are expedable between: chaos lord, manticore lord, chosens (10), allies.

[Deadkitten]

Looking for a casual funzies list.  Only looking to go 3-2 playing in the backyard during the Rona.

Allegiance: Chaos
Archaon the Everchosen (800)
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
3 x Varanguard (280)
3 x Varanguard (280)
1 x Mindstealer Sphiranx (100)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 98
 

Utter garbage?  I could combine all the Warriors into a block of 15 I figured a list like this needs some coverage?  15 Warriors at least give me a shot at an objective though.  But I didn't go for that 3rd Varanguard unit bc I didn't want to leave a 280 pt unit babysitting a back objective.....   270 isn't exactly an improvement on that front.  Anyway open to criticism.