AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Roark]

On 7/22/2020 at 6:41 PM, Jonko said:

Does anyone know when the app for the phone will be updated? i'm waiting for the right points to make a list

Dunno but FYI Warscroll Builder updated about an hour ago.

[Jonko]

2 hours ago, shadowgra said:

Because seraphon is in the meta with bastiladons and salamanders Nurgle becomes interesting as a mark of chaos. It will be almost impossible to snipe your herpes due to pitch black, -1 to hit from the general aura, -1 to hit from look out sir. From this after los check bastiladons are hitting herpes on 6s and everything else on 5s. Pretty useful.

The only thing that pushes Nurgle back is the nerfed daemon prince that right now is awful beyond imagination compared to the khorne one. In order to have paragon of ruin, aka the only despoilers trait you want, you need a prince that also becomes your general and the general aura in khorne/Nurgle is very important

Salamanders are out with 30 point increase lol. But jeh i agree on nurgle being best suited for the job.

I was doubting to go nurgle allegiance with a full slaves army + rogtigus for some extra mortal wounds. But i think there might be no point with +2 Dispell and unlimited dispell range from slannpriest in serphon. I might get 1 spell off, not worth it. So i will probely stick with our STD book and go for nurgle despoilers + plaguetouch warband.

 

[shadowgra]

9 minutes ago, Jonko said:

Salamanders are out with 30 point increase lol. But jeh i agree on nurgle being best suited for the job.

I was doubting to go nurgle allegiance with a full slaves army + rogtigus for some extra mortal wounds. But i think there might be no point with +2 Dispell and unlimited dispell range from slannpriest in serphon. I might get 1 spell off, not worth it. So i will probely stick with our STD book and go for nurgle despoilers + plaguetouch warband.

 

I do think that sallies are still in, they will not be spammed like before but they still rock.

I do not particularly like ptw tbh. Seems hard to fit everything in and you do not include DP or other things in it.

[Jonko]

1 hour ago, Roark said:

Dunno but FYI Warscroll Builder updated about an hour ago.

thanks! not the app on phone yet tho

[Jonko]

25 minutes ago, shadowgra said:

I do think that sallies are still in, they will not be spammed like before but they still rock.

I do not particularly like ptw tbh. Seems hard to fit everything in and you do not include DP or other things in it.

tbh PTW is thing that gives your army even a chance, whitout it i say GL againt dino's. The thing that makes it worth its 2 drop and the mortalwound output when defending. Seraphon has near nothing against MW. So if i get attack by a blop of saurusguards with a lot of attacks or a carno it might delete my unit, but i all those woundrolls of 6 bite back. + a extra artifact for your battelion and spray D3 mortals on a 3+ might be just that extra you needed.

Fitting everything in is no problem at, especially now with the point drops. I have yet to paint my 40 marauders so i will use chaos warriors and knights mainly.

[Jonko]

[shadowgra]

2 minutes ago, Jonko said:

tbh PTW is thing that gives your army even a chance, whitout it i say GL againt dino's. The thing that makes it worth its 2 drop and the mortalwound output when defending. Seraphon has near nothing against MW. So if i get attack by a blop of saurusguards with a lot of attacks or a carno it might delete my unit, but i all those woundrolls of 6 bite back. + a extra artifact for your battelion and spray D3 mortals on a 3+ might be just that extra you needed.

Fitting everything in is no problem at, especially now with the point drops. I have yet to paint my 40 marauders so i will use chaos warriors and knights mainly.

The ma in problem i have with ptw in STD is the following (i played half a dozen of games with it then dropped it):

You are paying 180 points in order to get:

-an extra artefact (since artefacts are not that great and realm artefact have been cut there isn't much to say, the only book artefact worth taking is diabolic mantle).

- an extra CP: all good there

- a bouncing MW on 6s to wound.

However you need to fill the 8 units requirements, you cannot include in it any Nurgle ally (Harbinger, lob) or STD daemon prince, warcry bands and such

The problem is that you come up with some min size unit that are nothing special.

 

I am not saying it is bad, i am saying that i think there is something better and more fun to play in this army.

Oh and btw it really is only good vs Saurus/Saurus guard, everything else in the Dino roster does not care about ptw.

The almost monodrop is nice tho. Is without a doubt the strongest marked battalion of the book

 

[Spears]

Did Demonrift go up? it still shows as 80 on warscroll builder

[Jonko]

55 minutes ago, shadowgra said:

The ma in problem i have with ptw in STD is the following (i played half a dozen of games with it then dropped it):

You are paying 180 points in order to get:

-an extra artefact (since artefacts are not that great and realm artefact have been cut there isn't much to say, the only book artefact worth taking is diabolic mantle).

- an extra CP: all good there

- a bouncing MW on 6s to wound.

However you need to fill the 8 units requirements, you cannot include in it any Nurgle ally (Harbinger, lob) or STD daemon prince, warcry bands and such

The problem is that you come up with some min size unit that are nothing special.

 

I am not saying it is bad, i am saying that i think there is something better and more fun to play in this army.

Oh and btw it really is only good vs Saurus/Saurus guard, everything else in the Dino roster does not care about ptw.

The almost monodrop is nice tho. Is without a doubt the strongest marked battalion of the book

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I guess we will see now. I absoluty hate playing versus serphon, i never liked it. I think they are a bit on the overpowered side with there shenanigans. Normaly i pick my skaven army to rip them apart with my own shenanigans, but i wanna play with my slaves and see how they do.

[cplhicks]

If you are looking for cheap ways to pad your Plague touched Warband look no further the humble Chaos Spawn.   They have the mortal keyword and be marked.

 

[Jonko]

12 minutes ago, cplhicks said:

If you are looking for cheap ways to pad your Plague touched Warband look no further the humble Chaos Spawn.   They have the mortal keyword and be marked.

 

yes i know this but thanks!

[sfe667]

7 hours ago, shadowgra said:

The ma in problem i have with ptw in STD is the following (i played half a dozen of games with it then dropped it):

You are paying 180 points in order to get:

-an extra artefact (since artefacts are not that great and realm artefact have been cut there isn't much to say, the only book artefact worth taking is diabolic mantle).

- an extra CP: all good there

- a bouncing MW on 6s to wound.

However you need to fill the 8 units requirements, you cannot include in it any Nurgle ally (Harbinger, lob) or STD daemon prince, warcry bands and such

The problem is that you come up with some min size unit that are nothing special.

 

I am not saying it is bad, i am saying that i think there is something better and more fun to play in this army.

Oh and btw it really is only good vs Saurus/Saurus guard, everything else in the Dino roster does not care about ptw.

The almost monodrop is nice tho. Is without a doubt the strongest marked battalion of the book

 

Has anyone tried PTW in an Archaon list? You essentially need to run MSU (though a couple of Spawns may change that), however you'd be taking the Sorc Lord, a Warshrine, and a few teleporting blocks of 20 suicidal Marauders which coupled with Archaon might be enough output to leave your MSU units to tie up objectives.

It's probably not viable, but would be interesting to know if anyone has tried it.

[Gistradagis]

8 hours ago, Spears said:

Did Demonrift go up? it still shows as 80 on warscroll builder

Yes.

[Vestrial]

I want to try something without Marauders. Focusing on Nurgle to get the easy MW and plus damage.

The list is suppose to work ;

1- Blob of Knight + Karkadrak trying with one CP to impact on charge some big unit. Making first turn Karkadrak General for summoning 10 marauder that will lockdown the unit to charge.

2- Following on the slow move 3 units of CW. Teleporting the units of 10 where they need to be, keeping the blob of 20 with the shrine (adding 6+ feel no pain to add tanking) where my ennemy has is bigger chuck of army.

3- Chaos Sorceror on Manticore ; releasing is big bad damage spell or teleporting. Trying to hunt with it, lonely ennemy hero.

 

Is'it bad idea/list ?

 

Quote

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Ravagers

Leaders
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Ravagers Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (230)
- Artefact: Cloak of the Relentless Conqueror
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
- Ravagers Command Trait: Eternal Vendetta
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
- Artefact: Blasphemous Cuirass
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Ravagers Command Trait: Flames of Spite

Battleline
10 x Chaos Knights (320)
- Cursed Lance
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
20 x Chaos Warriors (360)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Battalions
Plaguetouched Warband (180)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 148

 

[cplhicks]

On Warscroll builder it  is giving me the option to add a ravagers command trait to Archaon.  Clearly this is a mistake?  The ravagers rules just  say any Ravagers Hero can take one.  While Archaon  is technically a Ravagers Hero in that Dammed Legion there has to be rules else where stating that named characters can't take CT's?  Unless the Ravagers rules get around that because every hero can take one instead of just the general.

 

*EDIT* Looked it up and the specifically mentions Archaon   in the example as not being allowed CT. Boooo! But also understandable haha😆

Edited July 24, 2020 by cplhicks

[NJohansson]

9 hours ago, Jonko said:

yes i know this but thanks!

They certainly do but two spawn and the battalion is suddenly the cost of almost 40 marauders or a sorcerer on Maticore/Be’Lakor and I generally find StD needs the extra points for additional units - the army can handle going first or second reasonably well and the benefits of the battalions are rarely worth the extra points/restrictions. 

[Charleston]

Had yesterday a 1000pts game against warclans. I´ve learnt that Mawkrushas are really a paintrain, having a double movement + chage + High Damage Output.

The Krusha deleted my Sorcerer on Manticore and a half unit of Knights turn one. But then I got a sweet charge with another full squad of Khorne Lance Knights with LoCoDM Buff and I have to say that this is quite of a nice hammer unit. Havin a 3+/2+/-2/2 Profile with rr 1 to hit is damn satisfying, especially with like 11 attacks. I was a bit sad that there was no Bloodsecrator around for +1 Attack, or LoC for Double-Combat.

Also guys, you won´t belive it, I rolled on the Eye of Chaos table! Yeah, it really happened! First time since the book dropped. And it was a great feeling I got a useless protection against spells but hey, I got something from the gods! Next game it will be ascension!

Edited July 24, 2020 by Charleston

[decker_cky]

13 hours ago, shadowgra said:

The ma in problem i have with ptw in STD is the following (i played half a dozen of games with it then dropped it):

You are paying 180 points in order to get:

-an extra artefact (since artefacts are not that great and realm artefact have been cut there isn't much to say, the only book artefact worth taking is diabolic mantle).

- an extra CP: all good there

- a bouncing MW on 6s to wound.

However you need to fill the 8 units requirements, you cannot include in it any Nurgle ally (Harbinger, lob) or STD daemon prince, warcry bands and such

The problem is that you come up with some min size unit that are nothing special.

 

I am not saying it is bad, i am saying that i think there is something better and more fun to play in this army.

Oh and btw it really is only good vs Saurus/Saurus guard, everything else in the Dino roster does not care about ptw.

The almost monodrop is nice tho. Is without a doubt the strongest marked battalion of the book

 

If you want an army based on Plaguetouched, its great. Remember that you can fill out the 7 nurgle units requirement with additional characters (the non-marked battalions allow only one character). If going in nurgle, you want some knights, 3 battleline, a sorcerer or two, a warshrine, and maybe a karkadrak. You're already at 7-8 units on that list. 

[Eorek]

With all the teclises, nagashes and kroaks in the current meta I decided my army needed the dark master himself.

Still abit wip but I'd appreciate any c&c

[shadowgra]

8 hours ago, decker_cky said:

If you want an army based on Plaguetouched, its great. Remember that you can fill out the 7 nurgle units requirement with additional characters (the non-marked battalions allow only one character). If going in nurgle, you want some knights, 3 battleline, a sorcerer or two, a warshrine, and maybe a karkadrak. You're already at 7-8 units on that list. 

Oh i know, i played Nurgle for 5 years and i used ptw when it was bonkers.

Anyway i am not saying that it is terrible, i do say instead that there are choices in the army that i rate higher.

If you wanna play in Nurgle tho my thought is quite the opposite, it is a great way to reduce drops and Nurgle has some great sinergies with slaves

[begleysm]

Now that Gaunt Summoners only summon 5 Pink Horrors (instead of 10) I have a question.  Since the warscroll says 1 in 10 can be a Hornblower and 1 in 10 can be an Icon Bearer, does our unit of 5 get to contain those command models?

 

I've checked the Core Rules and Eratta.  It seems like a common scenario, but I'm having trouble finding commentary on it.

[readercolin]

9 hours ago, begleysm said:

Now that Gaunt Summoners only summon 5 Pink Horrors (instead of 10) I have a question.  Since the warscroll says 1 in 10 can be a Hornblower and 1 in 10 can be an Icon Bearer, does our unit of 5 get to contain those command models?

 

I've checked the Core Rules and Eratta.  It seems like a common scenario, but I'm having trouble finding commentary on it.

1 in 10 can be that model.  If you can't field 10, then you can't field the hornblower/icon bearer.

[begleysm]

55 minutes ago, readercolin said:

1 in 10 can be that model.  If you can't field 10, then you can't field the hornblower/icon bearer.

Roger.  Thanks.

[Jonko]

Dont be too harsh on my english please.

So i played my match vs seraphon yesterday.

I played with depsoilers and plaguetouch warband.

Mark all nurgle ofc

-Deamonprince- axe- armour of tortured souls/radiance of dark glory 
-Chaos lord on karkadrak - diabolic mantle
-Sorcerer lord- mask of darkness
-Sorcerer lord on manticore- Call to glory
-Chaos lord-Daemonbound s teel/reapersblade
-15 Chaos warriors 
-10 Knights
-5 Knights 
-5 Chaos chosen
-Plaguetouch warband.

Battleplan: i dunno what it's called it was a new one from the 2020 handbook with 3 objectives in the middle of the board where you roll every turn which objective whould give you 3 points instead of 1.

Becouse i had a 2 drop army i was fishing for a double turn (sadly this never happend) and let the seraphon start the first round.  When we started the game my hopes were realy low couse i know seraphon is just a **** to play against. My opponent played Kroak and had 2 skinkpriest, one of them on a troglodon. First turn he got 4 command points off his allegiance ability and had +2 to cast on his kroak and +1 on his skinkpriests. He started of with some spells to buff some units but also managed to get off comets call (every ****** turn) spraying mortal wounds over my army, trying to pick of DP general/wizards. Over the progress of the game, having mortal wounds saves on most of my army this realy helps but still is nasty. He got off his ravenak's gnashing jaws turn 1 and put it in the middle of the battlefield in case i had a double turn. When it was my turn i moved in my army and had a unit of 5 knights to flank him from the side on one of the objectives(the one with the extra 3 points). Over the  course of the game he had been so lucky with where the main objective whould be places and i had to struggle to get points becouse of this.
When it was round 2 and he starded he deceided to move his army in with mostly saurusses and cast another geminids of uhl-gysh (damn nasty -1 attack/-1 to hit on those who got hit) And becouse his endless spells are bound as seraphon, there was little i can do and he could always moved them to his liking (OP LOL). I had only 2 wizards with 1 spell/dispell so i did not even bother to try to get them of the field becouse i knew he whould just cast them again next turn with maybe even more horrible consequence. From this turn on he whould also cast celestrial  deliverance from his kroak on a balewind to his priest on a troglodon. (spraying more MW jeej) He used his CP to buff his sauruswarriors to get +1 to hit/+1to wound and -1 rend? i'm not sure anymore. This is where i got supriced by the power of plaguetouch, even tho he ate 4 of my knights (1left) that where flanking  and had a ****** ton of attacks on my warriors. only 1 warrior died becouse of the reroll save rolls (i also had ocular vision on both my knights) but i did some dazeling MW back from plaguetouch woundrolls of 6 he did. Shrinking his Sauruswarriors ghehe. As it was my turn i charged in most of my units and whould use my chosen later (standing behind the  warriors in 3'' to fill the gap when those warriors whould die giving me reroll wound rolls for units in 12'') and tried to get most damage out. I parked my DP on a edge of the fight hoping to lure his heroes in with bloated blessings on himself.
From turn 3 as he started he took the bait with his carnosaur (in the end his carno kiled himself and we even had a debate about him choosing to attack or not lol) and from that point on it was just attacking from both sides every round. Both suffered losses, but in the end despite the nasty debuffs he gave me i prevailed with most units alive and some finaly getting some objectives (he had more models in the start making it hard to take objectives)
We ended up in round 5 having the same points and called it the day with a draw becouse it was such a lovely battle.

So what are my thoughts?
-I think i did realy well overal with my first 2k army vs a verry skilled seraphon player.
- Plaguetouch warband realy gave me a chance, dealing massive MW back to the attackers (whitout i doubt i stood a chance  + my rerolls on saves) 
- I had allot of luck on those heals from despoilers
- I had low expectations of chaos warriors becouse of all talk people had about them ,but they did surprisingly well.
- I think seraphon is in a better tier then slaves becouse of several reasons: they get so many command points (i had to spread mine over turns and even get an artifact for a extra D3), spellcasting is no match against seraphon's dispell over the entire map+ bound spells (realy realy strong), the +1/2 to cast, casting with kroak through skinkpriest. But especialy spraying mortal wounds over the map.. , Oh and not to forget -1 damage from EVERY attack on ANY dino.
- I lost some units in the battleshockphase where my opponent just had command points ready for pretty much every battleshock test.
- I feel like bringing my list to a tourney you are in for some real struggle against heavy magic lists, i'm not sure how well cabalist whould do. Or heck maybe a plaguetouch cabalist list?
- I think bel'akor should maybe even be picked as general even if that makes you miss out a command trait, imagine using his puppet abilty on the turn you go into combat and use it on his kroak lol (or high value targets in other armies)

Ofcourse feel free to ask questions if you wanna know more

Edited July 27, 2020 by Jonko

[Charleston]

Spoiler

4 hours ago, Jonko said:

First turn he got 4 command points off his allegiance ability and had +2 to cast on his kroak and +1 on his skinkpriest

 

4 hours ago, Jonko said:

I think seraphon is in a better tier then slaves becouse of several reasons: they get so many command points (i had to spread mine over turns and even get an artifact for a extra D3), spellcasting is no match against seraphon's dispell over the entire map+ bound spells (realy realy strong), the +1/2 to cast, casting with kroak through skinkpriest. But especialy spraying mortal wounds over the map.. , Oh and not to forget -1 damage from EVERY attack on ANY dino.

This is a thing that really mades me mad at any single game against Seraphon. They have all of the mentioned at a reasonable point cost, have access to flat D5 Weapons on their lizzards, have shooting, chaff, mobility, morale sheningans. Short said: They are a jack of all trades, having no downside. StD are quite narrow in what they can do (mostly you are tied to a gameplan due to the sublegion you choose) and it feels like many units were paing a premium for...what exactly?

Nevertheless, it is great that you picked up the game and made the best out of it! Your army looks fabulous and the rep was a goof read!

4 hours ago, Jonko said:

- I think bel'akor should maybe even be picked as general even if that makes you miss out a command trait, imagine using his puppet abilty on the turn you go into combat and use it on his kroak lol (or high value targets in other armies)

I don´t get the point here. You can use the Puppeteer-Ability when he is not you general, so what would be the difference in making him a general? But yes, the Ability is awesome!