AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Jonko]

On 7/11/2020 at 9:30 PM, Kramer said:

GW have sadly been quit about everything ghb related this week. So far as I know, no date on the faq. 
 

this is what they did say:

Like in last year’s edition, we’ll be ensuring that armies released after the General’s Handbook went to print (that’s everything since Cities of Sigmar) will have their matched play profiles updated for free with a set of downloads in the very near future. 

Thanks man, i guess we wait and see!

[Hannibal]

27 minutes ago, Jonko said:

Thanks man, i guess we wait and see!

Warscroll builder now has updated profiles.

 

EDIT: it seems to me that only the armies with points changes in GHB are updated. Sorry.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Hannibal

[Hounsou83]

Hello ! Is it possible in THE KNIGHTS OF THE EMPTY THRONE to run the varanguard as a 6 man unit as an hero ansia general ?? Thanks ! 

[Maserdom]

Hi guys!

Could you please lend me a hand for some list building? A friend of mine loves to play Slaves to Darkness and I'm currently coaching him in order to help him grow his AoS skills: what he really needs, at the moment, is a good list!

We only play at 1250 points due to time constraints and my inability to field more than 1500 points of squigs (I could bring out my Tzeentch army, but I'm not here to skin him alive). He has access to loads of old chaos models thanks to his past with WHFB and is willing to buy whatever is needed to field one or two mean lists for our future matches.

I understand that the new points are yet to come: what I really need now, is more of a direction and "proofreading" for the lists I have prepared

 

LIST 1

Spoiler

• Chaos Lord on Manticore (seems like a beast)
• Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (a dispel/unbind is always good)
• 10x Chaos Warrior (objectives and general screening)
• 10x Chaos Warrior
• 5x Chaos Knight (he loves them and they make for some great flankers)

Mark of SLAANESH for the extra damage

 

LIST 2

Spoiler

• Chaos Lord on Manticore
• Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (because his summoned units will help him adapt to whichever threat he has to fight, plus 2 spells)
• Chaos Sorcerer Lord (because more spells)
• 10x Chaos Warrior
• 10x Chaos Warrior
• 5x Chaos Knight

Mark of TZEENTCH

 

LIST 3

Spoiler

• Chaos Lord on Manticore
• 10x Chaos Warrior
• 10x Chaos Warrior
• 5x Chaos Knight (flanking)
• 3x Chaos Chariot (turbo charged and insanely good!)

Mark of SLAANESH because ****** magic I'm all for fighting

 

Any insight or help will be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

[Eldarain]

In general you'll want those warrior units at either 5, 15 or possibly 20 as their reroll saves kicks in at 10 and turns off at 9 or less.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Eldarain

[WHYGW]

19 hours ago, Hounsou83 said:

여보세요 ! 비어있는 왕좌에서 영웅 마니아 장군으로서 6 인 단위로 varanguard를 운영 할 수 있습니까? 감사 ! 

According to GW armmy builder, it's impossible.

[Utforskarn]

Hello! I have a question about the big guy. 
We all know Archaon got FAQ’d to only get the benefits from one aura of chaos ability. But what about the warshrine prayers?

Specificaly the secondary effect of the prayers all say that in addition to the first effect, if the target has the relevant keyword for whatever prayer being used you also apply the secondary effect. 

As far as I can understand Archaon has all of the god-keywords he just cant benefit from morse than one aura of chaos per battle. But the keywords are still on his warscroll and so he should be able to get the full benefit from warshrine prayers, correct? 

For example could a Khornemarked Archy get the +1 save from the secondary effect of the Nurgle prayer? 
 

[Maserdom]

7 hours ago, Eldarain said:

In general you'll want those warrior units at either 5, 15 or possibly 20 as their reroll saves kicks in at 10 and turns off at 9 or less.

Got it, thanks!

[Hannibal]

9 hours ago, Maserdom said:

Hi guys!

Could you please lend me a hand for some list building? A friend of mine loves to play Slaves to Darkness and I'm currently coaching him in order to help him grow his AoS skills: what he really needs, at the moment, is a good list!

We only play at 1250 points due to time constraints and my inability to field more than 1500 points of squigs (I could bring out my Tzeentch army, but I'm not here to skin him alive). He has access to loads of old chaos models thanks to his past with WHFB and is willing to buy whatever is needed to field one or two mean lists for our future matches.

I understand that the new points are yet to come: what I really need now, is more of a direction and "proofreading" for the lists I have prepared

 

LIST 1

  Hide contents

• Chaos Lord on Manticore (seems like a beast)
• Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (a dispel/unbind is always good)
• 10x Chaos Warrior (objectives and general screening)
• 10x Chaos Warrior
• 5x Chaos Knight (he loves them and they make for some great flankers)

Mark of SLAANESH for the extra damage

 

LIST 2

  Hide contents

• Chaos Lord on Manticore
• Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (because his summoned units will help him adapt to whichever threat he has to fight, plus 2 spells)
• Chaos Sorcerer Lord (because more spells)
• 10x Chaos Warrior
• 10x Chaos Warrior
• 5x Chaos Knight

Mark of TZEENTCH

 

LIST 3

  Hide contents

• Chaos Lord on Manticore
• 10x Chaos Warrior
• 10x Chaos Warrior
• 5x Chaos Knight (flanking)
• 3x Chaos Chariot (turbo charged and insanely good!)

Mark of SLAANESH because ****** magic I'm all for fighting

 

Any insight or help will be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

You don´t have to give your entire army the same mark. Just because you included a Gaunt Summoner doesn´t mean your army hast to be Tzeentch.

 

It all depends on the model pool of your friend.

• Does he own Marauders? Than the subfaction that allows for "summoning in" Marauders might be a good idea.
• Does he own Daemons? If not, the Gaunt Summoner is not that big of a deal.
• If he rely likes Knights, why not a full Knight army? Knights are battleline in StD and therefore you won´t need Warriors.
• Powerwise Marauders are the best unit in the book, therefore a Marauder heavy force could be a thing.

 

List building also depends on the internal synergies. For example, the Chaos Lord on Manticore has a command ability that only benefits Chaos Warriors.

 

My first advice would be to throw together every single model he likes to play, give everything the mark of Nurgle (it has two good effects, one offensive, one defensive) and just play some games. You´ll see what works for him and what not.

A Chaos Sorcerer Lord of any kind always is a good addition because of his rerolling saves ability that doesn´t need a command point nor a dice roll to work. It´s great! The one on Manticore has a good anti hordes spell and is more resilient, the one on foot has a very good support spell.

 

1 hour ago, Utforskarn said:

As far as I can understand Archaon has all of the god-keywords he just cant benefit from morse than one aura of chaos per battle. But the keywords are still on his warscroll and so he should be able to get the full benefit from warshrine prayers, correct?

In the StD battletome there is written that a model with more than one marks has to choose which mark are used for the battle. It´s on the page with the Allegiance ability, I think first column, maybe 3rd or 4th paragraph.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Hannibal

[Maserdom]

55 minutes ago, Hannibal said:

• Does he own Marauders? Than the subfaction that allows for "summoning in" Marauders might be a good idea.
• Does he own Daemons? If not, the Gaunt Summoner is not that big of a deal.
• If he rely likes Knights, why not a full Knight army? Knights are battleline in StD and therefore you won´t need Warriors.
• Powerwise Marauders are the best unit in the book, therefore a Marauder heavy force could be a thing.

 

A) unfortunately, he doesn't. He's extremely fond of Chaos Warriors and Knights, that he plays as Cabalists to fuel his wizard's spells.

B) I tried to make him buy some Greater Daemons, but he prefers the mortal side of things. How's a Gaunt Summoner just mediocre, though? 200 points of free Pink Horrors (50 wounds) and 60 points of Sorcerer with 2 spells seem glorious! The horrors will tie up an entire flank, preventing unwanted charges, while the rest of the army marches on.

C) How viable would it be? I tried to sell him the idea, since he reeeally likes knights and chariots, with the Battallion that gives a free D3 mortal wounds on a 2+ after a successful charge, but he isn't sure about fielding only knights .  On the other hand, for 1240 points he could field 20 knights, a Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore, an Exalted Hero of Chaos (free damage) and a Chaos lord on demonic mount to buff the knight.   It sounds quite good!

D) see point A.

[Hannibal]

1 hour ago, Maserdom said:

 

A) unfortunately, he doesn't. He's extremely fond of Chaos Warriors and Knights, that he plays as Cabalists to fuel his wizard's spells.

Then maybe some endless spells?

1 hour ago, Maserdom said:

B) I tried to make him buy some Greater Daemons, but he prefers the mortal side of things. How's a Gaunt Summoner just mediocre, though? 200 points of free Pink Horrors (50 wounds) and 60 points of Sorcerer with 2 spells seem glorious! The horrors will tie up an entire flank, preventing unwanted charges, while the rest of the army marches on.

Well, that´s what I meant. To get the most out of that Gaunt Summoner you need 50 models. If you don´t have that, it´s just an overcosted and squishy caster.

1 hour ago, Maserdom said:

C) How viable would it be? I tried to sell him the idea, since he reeeally likes knights and chariots, with the Battallion that gives a free D3 mortal wounds on a 2+ after a successful charge, but he isn't sure about fielding only knights .  On the other hand, for 1240 points he could field 20 knights, a Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore, an Exalted Hero of Chaos (free damage) and a Chaos lord on demonic mount to buff the knight.   It sounds quite good!

Once more, that´s what I meant: if you really like the idea of something, just go for it. As a beginner you have to learn the rules and the basics of tactics and strategies. IMO this can be done with every single army no matter how "competetive" it is.

If going Khorne, an allied Bloodstoker might be a good addition then. As well as a Daemon Prince of Khorne. Both enhance your chances for alpha strikes.

There is simply so much you can do with this book.

 

[Maserdom]

45 minutes ago, Hannibal said:

Well, that´s what I meant. To get the most out of that Gaunt Summoner you need 50 models.

 

That part is easily solved: my second army is Tzeentch and my horrors are ready to serve another master if needed for the match

He also has some daemonettes and bloodletters that he once used and can be summoned.

 

Truly, the StD battletome is quite unique. The more I read it, the more tactics and combos and lists I think of!

[Dressedspring1]

3 hours ago, Maserdom said:

A) unfortunately, he doesn't. He's extremely fond of Chaos Warriors and Knights, that he plays as Cabalists to fuel his wizard's spells

Definitely don’t sacrifice your warriors and knights to fuel cabalist  spells, if you’re trying to make cabalists work one of the warcry warbands is a really good source of cheap sac fodder. For me I liked iron golems because they also doubled as a fairly durable speed bump you could use for screening, however the snake guys are also a good choice since the snake can regenerate and provide repeatable sacrifice fodder

[Smooth criminal]

On 7/14/2020 at 5:09 PM, Fufutif said:

Thanks you very mutch !!!

What mark would you take ? Khorne? Nurgle?

Do you find the hero exalted worth it?

And last question (sorry ^^) the spears or sword on the knight of chaos?

Mark doesn't matter much as long as it's khorne/nurgle/slaanesh. I guess khorne hits a bit harder.

Ensorcelled for knights.

Exalted is pretty bad but you need the aura bubble to go with warriors. Should be chaos lord, but I don't see how to do that without downgrading karkadrak to mounted lord.

[Grimrock]

7 hours ago, Utforskarn said:

Hello! I have a question about the big guy. 
We all know Archaon got FAQ’d to only get the benefits from one aura of chaos ability. But what about the warshrine prayers?

Specificaly the secondary effect of the prayers all say that in addition to the first effect, if the target has the relevant keyword for whatever prayer being used you also apply the secondary effect. 

As far as I can understand Archaon has all of the god-keywords he just cant benefit from morse than one aura of chaos per battle. But the keywords are still on his warscroll and so he should be able to get the full benefit from warshrine prayers, correct? 

For example could a Khornemarked Archy get the +1 save from the secondary effect of the Nurgle prayer? 
 

Yeah, the FAQ was only for the Aura of Chaos battle trait. He still has all of the marks on his warscroll so he'll still get all the benefits that entails, he just only emits one type of aura. He can also benefit from ally abilities like the Nurgle bell, Blue Scribes rerolls, or the Khorne Bloodstoker.  

[Utforskarn]

13 hours ago, Hannibal said:

In the StD battletome there is written that a model with more than one marks has to choose which mark are used for the battle. It´s on the page with the Allegiance ability, I think first column, maybe 3rd or 4th paragraph.

 

7 hours ago, Grimrock said:

Yeah, the FAQ was only for the Aura of Chaos battle trait. He still has all of the marks on his warscroll so he'll still get all the benefits that entails, he just only emits one type of aura. He can also benefit from ally abilities like the Nurgle bell, Blue Scribes rerolls, or the Khorne Bloodstoker.

Two very conflicting answers. Anyone else care to weigh in?  

[Grimrock]

1 hour ago, Utforskarn said:

 

Two very conflicting answers. Anyone else care to weigh in?  

I may be wrong, reading the book again it does seem to suggest he has to pick a mark. There's still a little room that it might be referring to a mark for the purposes of the rule, not that he loses the other marks for the duration of the game, but it's a bit of a stretch. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Grimrock

[Salyx]

2 hours ago, Utforskarn said:

 

Two very conflicting answers. Anyone else care to weigh in?  

Regarding Archaon: He has all the Mark Keywords, so he will Profit fron all buffs that are limited to one Mark. This means, he could benefit from the buffs of Bloodsecrator, Slaughterpriests, Glottkin and all warshrine prayers will have both effects on Archaon. 

However, in a Slaves to Darkness army, he only emits one Mark for other units, which you have to choose before. So you could push his attack with an allied Bloodsecrator, let him re-rolls to Hit with an allied fatemaster and at the same time give all Nurgle units exploding 6s to wound and - 1 to Hit from shooting, but nothing more. Other units with another Mark will not benefit from his aura. 

[Eldarain]

In a Slaves army Archaon only has one. In the Allegiance section it says he has to pick one Mark of Chaos keyword to apply for the game. Not just what aura he is projecting.

It's possibly a more interesting question in the other armies without that restriction.

[The World Tree]

8 hours ago, Eldarain said:

In a Slaves army Archaon only has one. In the Allegiance section it says he has to pick one Mark of Chaos keyword to apply for the game. Not just what aura he is projecting.

It's possibly a more interesting question in the other armies without that restriction.

It is very silly isn't it. But this is my understanding.

[Utforskarn]

29 minutes ago, The World Tree said:

It is very silly isn't it. But this is my understanding.

Yea so much for being the everchosen and favoured by the four gods of chaos I suppose

but it does look very much like it of you read the rules. Too bad. 

[Kurrilino]

18 hours ago, Utforskarn said:

 

Two very conflicting answers. Anyone else care to weigh in?  

Page 60 of the StD book

If a model has more than one mark of Chaos, you can only choose one and it lasts for the duration of the battle. 

That means it's not only Archi, is also applies to all items or abilities that grant more than one mark.

So we have rules that grant more than 1 mark but those rules are not applying to the army.

I he plays anywhere else than StD, he has all his marks back.

Whoever wrote that book, needs to rethink their career choice.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Kurrilino

[Tizianolol]

On 5/22/2020 at 7:36 AM, JackStreicher said:

I have a general question:

assuming it’s the opponent’s turn to pick a units to fight but there‘s none left. Then it‘s my turn to pick a unit  and I decide to pile in with a unit that has  a 6“ pile in into an enemy unit that hasn‘t fought yet: is the enemy allowed to hit me back after I have attacked?

I was reading past diacussions. Immagine in this scenario. If you got a unit that can pile in 6" ( varguard of empty throne) if opponent has not unit that can pile to fight 3" , you pile in 6", you attack that unit but im pretty sure opponent cant strike back. I think opponent unit "lost" his pile in opportunity and when you pile 6 it cant attack anymore! This discussion is interesting!

[Eldarain]

1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

I was reading past diacussions. Immagine in this scenario. If you got a unit that can pile in 6" ( varguard of empty throne) if opponent has not unit that can pile to fight 3" , you pile in 6", you attack that unit but im pretty sure opponent cant strike back. I think opponent unit "lost" his pile in opportunity and when you pile 6 it cant attack anymore! This discussion is interesting!

They only lose the ability to choose if you both pass. By piling in your Varanguard they can choose a unit to activate if the Guard moving makes any of their units a valid choice.

It's mostly useful for not being denied their second pile in through casualty removal or being able to reach normally out of reach units.

 

[The World Tree]

Played another game with the Slaves to Darkness last night. Great fun as always on the Blade's Edge. I do think we have a really fun book with a huge variety of effective army archetypes. It is just weird that the most iconic units are a bit rubbish.

Warshrines are so annoying - rolled a 1 every time for their blessing...