Grimrock Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) @Sinfullyvannila for the scribes and Kairos, the rules in the spell lores are only referring to taking the spell at the army construction stage. They don't say anything about needing a keyword to cast, just to take them in the first place. Casting restrictions usually come on the spell itself. For example on the Lord of Change it says to refer to the damage table on its warscroll and since the scribes don't have that table they can't cast the spell. Also if the spell says something like 'a NURGLE wizard may attempt to cast this spell on a casting roll of a 7...' or something like that. The rule is explained a bit more on the designer commentary for the tzeentch book. Edited July 6, 2020 by Grimrock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 No realm artifacts hurt the chaos lord on Karkadrak quite a bit, now it is not quite as clear cut compared to the manticore lord, at least in damage output, considering Ravagers got no direct weapon artifacts at all, losing the -3 rend on the karkadrak axe really lowers the output, while the manticore lord got more innate punch. For example a general of khorne with eternal vendatta charging on a manticore is around 15 damage against a 4+ save, quite decent. A Karkadrak is around 10 but possibly the d3 mortal wounds on the charge. This is with a lance though and without a charge the difference is only around 12 dmg to 10 from the karkadrak. The Karkadrak got a better save, a 5+ MW ignore, 3 less wounds but no degrading profile, the manticore got more movement and fly, however the command ability is not as important on the warriors as the command for knights... Ultimately you probably still want the Karkadrak, even with the reduced output potential and as such also less chance of healing from killing with the axe, but it is tougher and if using any units of knights will probably have a more impactful command ability, it is also useable in the cav battalion. Any other thoughts and ideas? I know the manticore can get a facelift in the khorne allegiance, but my goal is to stick with StD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketPropelledGrenade Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Assuming those leaks are accurate, my interest in finishing my StD army just got dropped in the toilet. Damn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fufutif Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Hello guys, I saw the possible leaks on STD (point drop on chaos warrior/knight and lord on karadrak) I would have liked to know your opinion on a list that I want to build. It would be for 2vs2 or 1vs1 games at 1k. So what would you play at 1000 points including chaos knight, warriors and a lord on karadrak to make it as competitive as possible? Which legions ? Which allegence ? Thanks you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 On 7/7/2020 at 10:45 PM, RocketPropelledGrenade said: Assuming those leaks are accurate, my interest in finishing my StD army just got dropped in the toilet. Damn. Same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charleston Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Guys, why does it have to be repeated: Thoose "Leaks" are highly unreliable as they were spoted the same way in an wishlist thread that was some weeks older. GW doesn´t have any printed values for the latest books as theese were not in before printing due date. We will get a pdf file with changes tommorow I guess. As pdf´s are quite safe from leaks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurrilino Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 On 7/7/2020 at 2:45 PM, RocketPropelledGrenade said: Assuming those leaks are accurate, my interest in finishing my StD army just got dropped in the toilet. Damn. I'm with you here. I already had close to no hope for a change for the better. But this is still unplayable and i am convinced the points are not the main problem. Even is all units would have a 50% point drop it would still be no fun to play them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurrilino Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 On 7/5/2020 at 5:52 PM, Grimrock said: On the plus side, it looks like we can ally in the glottkin now. Not sure if it'll be worth it, but their command ability is extremely good since it's still not wholly within. Plus with the loss of additional save after saves the harbinger is less interesting now. Might be better to just play in Nurgle allegiance, but could be worth testing out. At this point it's way better to ally in the StD into Nurgle since they are regular troops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimrock Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 40 minutes ago, Kurrilino said: At this point it's way better to ally in the StD into Nurgle since they are regular troops. Yeah I won't argue with you there, it certainly seems like it would be better to go slaves in nurgle rather than the other way around. I am interested to see the actual changes via pdf though. Pretty much everything else I play is probably getting nerfed or not changing much so S2D and Nurgle are my best hopes for new and interesting list writing for the next few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketPropelledGrenade Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Kurrilino said: I'm with you here. I already had close to no hope for a change for the better. But this is still unplayable and i am convinced the points are not the main problem. Even is all units would have a 50% point drop it would still be no fun to play them Unfortunately, all too accurate. I wasn't after a top-tier army, or even a army I could bring to a tournament and place anywhere in the top half with. I was looking for an army that had a unique gimmick and could produce fun gameplay moments, even if it lost. Unfortunately, the closest we had to a gimmick was gutted with the removal of save-after-save stacking, and various other changes (removal of realm artefacts, cost increase of horsemen making the cavalry battalion even harder to pull off, etc) mean I don't foresee any really notable moments arising from my gameplay either. About the only thing still going for my army is that it looks cool, but that's not exclusive to StD, and doesn't make me want to take it off the shelf. I hate to be so negative in a thread about a fun hobby involving a setting I love, but I'm having difficulty coming up with a silver lining to offset it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blisterfeet Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Just to let you know I got my book this morning and StD have no points changes in this current released print. I cannot provide screenshots but those leaks aren't in the printed version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNCMD Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Hey all, Thinking of starting an S2D Army in the near future, but reading a lot of the posts here I don't see a lot of positivity with some of the Changes that are coming in GHB 2020 and from what I gather, everything seems to be Khorne orientated that is going to stand up in a competitive setting? Mostly I loved the new models, the chariots, and the Chaos Knights. I wanted to have an army to be able to stand up in both a casual and competitive setting, is that no longer the case for S2D? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaCapo Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 We have to wait the errata coming soon to know. We honestly can't say a thing before we see the errata. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonko Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, RUNCMD said: Hey all, Thinking of starting an S2D Army in the near future, but reading a lot of the posts here I don't see a lot of positivity with some of the Changes that are coming in GHB 2020 and from what I gather, everything seems to be Khorne orientated that is going to stand up in a competitive setting? Mostly I loved the new models, the chariots, and the Chaos Knights. I wanted to have an army to be able to stand up in both a casual and competitive setting, is that no longer the case for S2D? Hey man, i think STD is still a worthy candidate for competitive play. It'offers a big range of units but i feel like the most elite units need some point drops. If you just want a S Tier army that can cheese maybe you gotta look elsewhere tho, The biggest problem i'm having with STD is mortal wounds output, the only good way to get those is via a battalion forcing you into one IMO. At the moment i'm realy hoping/waiting for a FAQ at the GW site to see the new armies point changes. (i'm hoping this is today) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonko Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Does anyone if they will release a FAQ today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNCMD Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 @Jonko thanks for the reply! Nah not looking for an S tier army, more so one that just doesn't get tabled and can hold its own. Ill have to suss the tome and see if anything catches my eye then! I really love the chaos knight models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonko Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 28 minutes ago, RUNCMD said: @Jonko thanks for the reply! Nah not looking for an S tier army, more so one that just doesn't get tabled and can hold its own. Ill have to suss the tome and see if anything catches my eye then! I really love the chaos knight models. Np @RUNCMD ! Same here! If the leaks are true and they will be 160 points they are realy beast. Lets hope so. Anyway: STD has always been about heroes that buff the other units, if that's a playstyle you like you're good. With the new book they realy gave the new heroes allot better defense, i realy like this. If you want more shooty armies you have to go skaven imo (which is my other army) Slaves is pure punch and shields. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Alright. After seeing the changes made to Cities of Sigmar I highly doubt GE gets that Std are in trouble AT ALL. the two worst offenders of Cities remained untouched (Wizard on Griffon and Sorceress in Dragon) - wth? What will be the Point changes for Chaos then? -10 pts for a spawn and -10 pts for the chariots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonko Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 2 hours ago, JackStreicher said: Alright. After seeing the changes made to Cities of Sigmar I highly doubt GE gets that Std are in trouble AT ALL. the two worst offenders of Cities remained untouched (Wizard on Griffon and Sorceress in Dragon) - wth? What will be the Point changes for Chaos then? -10 pts for a spawn and -10 pts for the chariots? Where did you see changes being made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyx Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 6 hours ago, Jonko said: Hey man, i think STD is still a worthy candidate for competitive play. It'offers a big range of units but i feel like the most elite units need some point drops. If you just want a S Tier army that can cheese maybe you gotta look elsewhere tho, The biggest problem i'm having with STD is mortal wounds output, the only good way to get those is via a battalion forcing you into one IMO. At the moment i'm realy hoping/waiting for a FAQ at the GW site to see the new armies point changes. (i'm hoping this is today) If you are looking for Mortal Wounds, Chosen are your Pick. Generally, you can play any Mark, perhaps except Tzeentch, which does Not Provide much. Even undivided is pretty good because of Battleshock immunity. However, there are few competetive choice. Marauders, demon prince, Karkadrak, Belakor, Washrine. All the cool looking units like Chaos Warriors, Knights or Chariots are rather underwhelming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) My brother has been running the cavalry battalion with most of his army being mounted Slaanesh; 3 single chariots, 3 units of knights, Karkadrak etc, and it's been pretty effective. He can easily deal 16 mortal wounds in a charge phase. I think the chariots are a hidden gem, because it's pretty common for each to be dealing 5 mortal wounds a charge, and crossing the table in one turn to do it. The ability for all his chariots to reroll their charges lets them fish for higher numbers for the MW output. If the 'leak' is true and the cavalry is coming down in cost, I can see it being a more common strategy. It has some good alpha potential, and can pin a front line effectively, with just the chariots if they choose their targets well. Edit: his list is also sub-optimal because he's memeing on me with 2 Soulgrinders... If he tuned it and was more serious, I think there's potential. Edited July 11, 2020 by Dankboss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 7 hours ago, Jonko said: Does anyone if they will release a FAQ today? GW have sadly been quit about everything ghb related this week. So far as I know, no date on the faq. this is what they did say: Like in last year’s edition, we’ll be ensuring that armies released after the General’s Handbook went to print (that’s everything since Cities of Sigmar) will have their matched play profiles updated for free with a set of downloads in the very near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The World Tree Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 5 hours ago, JackStreicher said: Alright. After seeing the changes made to Cities of Sigmar I highly doubt GE gets that Std are in trouble AT ALL. the two worst offenders of Cities remained untouched (Wizard on Griffon and Sorceress in Dragon) - wth? What will be the Point changes for Chaos then? -10 pts for a spawn and -10 pts for the chariots? Umm, pretty sure neither of those are the killer unit in Cities... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth criminal Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 On 7/9/2020 at 6:15 PM, Fufutif said: Hello guys, I saw the possible leaks on STD (point drop on chaos warrior/knight and lord on karadrak) I would have liked to know your opinion on a list that I want to build. It would be for 2vs2 or 1vs1 games at 1k. So what would you play at 1000 points including chaos knight, warriors and a lord on karadrak to make it as competitive as possible? Which legions ? Which allegence ? Thanks you 2x5 knights 1x karkadrak 15x warriors 1x exalted Ravagers, summon marauders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fufutif Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Smooth criminal said: 2x5 knights 1x karkadrak 15x warriors 1x exalted Ravagers, summon marauders Thanks you very mutch !!! What mark would you take ? Khorne? Nurgle? Do you find the hero exalted worth it? And last question (sorry ^^) the spears or sword on the knight of chaos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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