AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Jmason]

In the combat phase of my turn, I must attack with the demon prince first. Do I then get to immediately choose another one of my units to attack?

[CalZ]

Sadly no that would be good but it just forces you to uses him to attack first

[Dressedspring1]

I am under the impression he fights first and then normal fight turn order happens.  

Edited April 12, 2020 by Dressedspring1

[begleysm]

2 hours ago, Third said:

I have been dancing around the new Slaves to Darkness starter box for a little while now.. But I am a little bummed by the fact that there are no full command crew for the Warriors and Knights  

Does anyone have good ideas on how to mod the new models to have commands?

 

They look sooo cool 😍 So might get them even without it being possible to fix.

I ended up adding 5 old Warriors and 5 old Knights and using them for Musicians and Standard Bearers.

I wrote this little article showing how I did magnetization and command models.  I showed a few examples of conversions of the arriors to Musicians and Standard Bearers.

I'm still working on the Knights but I magnetized all their weapon hands too and you could easily make them instruments or banners.  The easiest would be to slap a pennant/banner on a vertical lance and glue a horn to the back or side of another model.  When I finish my Knights conversions I'll update the article and post back here.

https://steamforge.net/wiki/index.php/Age_of_Sigmar:_Slaves_to_Darkness:_Start_Collecting_Box_Magnetization_%26_Conversion

[Dressedspring1]

Just double checked because I thought I might have been mistaken. The demon prince fights at the start of the combat phase which is a separate part of the phase than when other units fight, and so things that happen at the start of the combat phase happen, then regular turn order fighting happens once all the start of combat phase is done.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/21/who-fights-first/

 

so unless there are other units that also fight at the start of the combat phase, you would get to fight with your demon prince and then chose another model to fight with afterwards 

 

[Jmason]

6 minutes ago, Dressedspring1 said:

Just double checked because I thought I might have been mistaken. The demon prince fights at the start of the combat phase which is a separate part of the phase than when other units fight, and so things that happen at the start of the combat phase happen, then regular turn order fighting happens once all the start of combat phase is done.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/21/who-fights-first/

 

so unless there are other units that also fight at the start of the combat phase, you would get to fight with your demon prince and then chose another model to fight with afterwards 

 

Thank you for clarifying, this makes that ability far better than how I was playing it!

[JackStreicher]

9 hours ago, Third said:

I have been dancing around the new Slaves to Darkness starter box for a little while now.. But I am a little bummed by the fact that there are no full command crew for the Warriors and Knights  

Does anyone have good ideas on how to mod the new models to have commands?

 

They look sooo cool 😍 So might get them even without it being possible to fix.

Add a witch Aelf banner to one of the lances and glue a war-Horn to the saddle of one knight =}

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by JackStreicher

[JackStreicher]

Delete pls

Edited April 12, 2020 by JackStreicher

[JackStreicher]

Delete pls

Edited April 12, 2020 by JackStreicher

[Da Bid Dabid]

20 hours ago, Third said:

I have been dancing around the new Slaves to Darkness starter box for a little while now.. But I am a little bummed by the fact that there are no full command crew for the Warriors and Knights  

Does anyone have good ideas on how to mod the new models to have commands?

 

They look sooo cool 😍 So might get them even without it being possible to fix.

They are pretty easy to convert. These were the two poses I chose but there are other ones too.

 

You could actually just use the guy with the skull on his head like I did and say he is the musician or bearer without even adding anything because none of the others have a helmet like that.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Da Bid Dabid
adding text

[Midjithero]

On 4/11/2020 at 8:04 PM, Jmason said:

Thank you for clarifying, this makes that ability far better than how I was playing it!

While This ruling is accurate (DP fights, then you choose) and it’s awesome...the DPs melee ability is still lack luster...if you give him an SoJ and hero hunt, it’s a GOD send ability  

I feel the DP is a total tease when it comes to melee output.  He wants to be good, but just kinda meh most of the time. 
 

edit**. Just wanted to add, the Khorne DPs ability is legit and totally fits the theme of S2D by denying your opponent opportunities to utilize their troops.  If I didn’t run all Slaanesh, I’d defiantly use it more often. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Midjithero
Clarification

[Hannibal]

Let´s discuss Chariots.

 

I own 5 of them stil unbuild and I´m going to build / paint them soon. I like chariots and will definetely field them no matter their competetiveness.

 

That being said, some questions to discuss the use of chariots:

 

1. Steeds or Gorebeast?

2. Which mark of chaos?

3. Any allied supporting piece of note?

 

The first thing I thought about was Chariots (steeds) in Ruinbringer warband to get the most out of the mortal wounds. Mark of Khorne with a Khorne Daemon Prince and an allied Bloodstoker or two.  These will increase the chances of mortal wounds due to +3" charging distance and the Khorne Daemon Prince will increase the chance to charge insted of being charged.

 

What are your thoughts on this subject?

[The World Tree]

Definitely NOT Gorebeasts!

I like Slaanesh for the free charge/run re-rolls. Especially in a list which has an 18 inch bubble for the mark of chaos.

Personally I don't think you need to overinvest to boost them up. Keep em cheap and in ruinbringers and pound them with mass mortal wounds.

One of the things I liked about chariots was how much space they take up - you get surprising levels of board presence.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

16 minutes ago, The World Tree said:

Definitely NOT Gorebeasts!

Care to elaborate on that? Is it just the points issue?

I have a few unassembled/partially assembled chariot kits, and am a fan of the Ruinbringer Warband already, but haven't done much testing of how the chariots actually do in game. I'm really hoping they get a bit of a points drop in the next review, as I'd love to throw some into my list but currently don't have room.

[Hannibal]

9 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

I have a few unassembled/partially assembled chariot kits, and am a fan of the Ruinbringer Warband already, but haven't done much testing of how the chariots actually do in game.

Maybe I will do the math on average damage soon.  On the other hand, the actual in game isn´t of much interest for me because I used to collect / build / paint what I like most. The second step is to look how I can get the best out of it.

9 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

I'm really hoping they get a bit of a points drop in the next review,

One thing I learned related to GW: never ever dream of point changes for YOUR stuff, it will always be the case for the opponents stuff.

 

[Grimrock]

I also tend to lean towards the horses instead of gorebeasts. The combat difference between the mounts is pretty insignificant (one damage on average rolls, slightly more if you roll the 8+ to charge for the gorebeast), but the horses are faster, can run and charge, and are cheaper. The mortal wounds are really the selling feature of either unit, and the horses average slightly more damage there (~2.3 mortal wounds for the horses vs. ~1.75 for the gorebeast). I also find the spike potential of the horse charge is also pretty appealing, even if the gorebeasts are a little more consistent, and ruinbringer helps level the horses out as well. Also just to state the obvious, never take them in a unit with multiple chariots. The mortal wounds work off unit instead of model, so the loss of damage there hurts far more than the bonus of a +1 to hit on the unit leader. 

From personal experience with a single chariot in ruinbringer I tend to do a good chunk of mortal wounds on the charge and then maaaybe one wound with combat after that. It's been a great missile for grabbing objectives or slamming into something important that needs to take some damage, but that's about it. I'm not sure if I'd really want to invest much to make them do more, those points would probably be better to use on other units like knights or marauders.  The bloodstoker for example would only add a single mortal wound to the charge on average. You do get to double down on the run and charge I suppose, and rerolling to wounds would help with base damage output, but still i think it would help other units out so much more.

[Jonko]

I use skulls to mark the flag/drummer 

[Jonko]

[Kramer]

Fellow darkness enthousiasts,

I have the book, a small mortal Slaanesh collection* that I keep adding to... but I have a hard time getting excited about the book. I keep returning to just building Slaanesh lists for it. 

so what am I missing? 

It starts with choosing a sub faction. we play mainly 1,5K so archaon is a bit much. The army is a  heavy conversion  (loose Greek mythology themed) project and de cultists/marauders are a bit of a hard fit. The sphiranx and mermidon do fit well though. So I kind of always get stuck on Despoilers.

*so far lords (on mount), sorcerer, warriors, chariots, spawn, daemonettes. On the horizon: knights, chosen, daemon prince, manticore lord, Gaunt summoner. 

[readercolin]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Fellow darkness enthousiasts,

I have the book, a small mortal Slaanesh collection* that I keep adding to... but I have a hard time getting excited about the book. I keep returning to just building Slaanesh lists for it. 

so what am I missing? 

It starts with choosing a sub faction. we play mainly 1,5K so archaon is a bit much. The army is a  heavy conversion  (loose Greek mythology themed) project and de cultists/marauders are a bit of a hard fit. The sphiranx and mermidon do fit well though. So I kind of always get stuck on Despoilers.

*so far lords (on mount), sorcerer, warriors, chariots, spawn, daemonettes. On the horizon: knights, chosen, daemon prince, manticore lord, Gaunt summoner. 

If you are dedicating it solely to slaanesh, I think you are going to struggle to get super excited about it.  Lets take a quick look at what StD gives a slannesh player:

Exploding 6's near a hero.  Lets take a quick look at the Slaanesh battletome.  What's this?  They already get exploding 6's?  And in large groups, double exploding 6's?  With no restrictions?  Clear win for the Slaanesh book.

StD Spells.  Slaanesh gets spells as well, but the only one that you would consider going StD for is Mask of Darkness (aka, the teleport).  While nice, it isn't exactly something that I'm specifically getting excited about, especially with how hard it is to get this spell off (goes off on a 7, and the only casting bonuses come from Cabalists or the Tzeentch Daemon Prince).

StD Endless Spells.  Bring a StD wizard.  Cast them in Slaanesh anyways.  Only real bonus is its a bit easier to bring Tzeentch spells into your StD list than your Slaanesh list.

Summoning (marauders/warbands).  How about instead of wasting command points (and your allegience ablity) to summon in 70 point bands of marauders once a turn, we summon in Daemon Princes.  Yeah... that sounds a Lot better.  Clear Slaanesh victory.

Casting Bonuses.  On a quick check, it looks like Slaanesh doesn't have any.  On the other hand, StD only gets this from Tzeentch Daemon Princes (which only affect Tzeentch hero's) or from Cabalists, which in addition to costing you models, only happens on a 3+ (aka, never when you need it).  You know... especially when you take a look at Hallowheart, you really have to wonder WHY they tied the Cabalist's casting bonus to a dice roll...

Daemon Prince Healing.  Cool, you can heal a d3 on a 4+.  This again isn't really attracting me to StD.  Especially when Slaanesh has sexier Daemon Princes.

Archaon w/ battleline varanguard.  Its a nice gimmic (that doesn't work at your points level).

Heroic Varanguard.  This is cool.  It isn't something that you are going to find elsewhere.  It also isn't particularly great, but you know what, its cool.

Non-Slannesh Units.  StD can take Khorne, Slaanesh, Nurgle, and Tzeentch units without even needing allies.  Now, this has proven rather ineffective (aside from Tzeentch Wizards in an otherwise Khorne list) due to needing hero's for the extra effect bubble, and needing some redundancy as well, but it is available.

Battalions.  The Slaanesh battalions don't contain mortals (except the White Dwarf ones), so if you want to run a battalion other than the Pleasurebound Warband, StD is better.  However, you do run into the issue that all the StD ones are rather overpriced, but hey, you can't have everything.

So you go through this list and  you ask yourself - am I actually gaining/losing something by going Slaanesh instead of StD or StD instead of Slaanesh?  Lets be honest - in most of these cases, Slaanesh allegience is better than StD allegience.  The real attraction to StD would probably actually be the ease with which you could play some Tzeentch or Khorne units alongside your slaanesh units.  But if you are specifically looking at it as a solely Slaanesh army, the Slaanesh battletome is probably going to win every time.

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, readercolin said:

So you go through this list and  you ask yourself - am I actually gaining/losing something by going Slaanesh instead of StD or StD instead of Slaanesh?  Lets be honest - in most of these cases, Slaanesh allegience is better than StD allegience.  The real attraction to StD would probably actually be the ease with which you could play some Tzeentch or Khorne units alongside your slaanesh units.  But if you are specifically looking at it as a solely Slaanesh army, the Slaanesh battletome is probably going to win every time.

True.

S2D should be mainly about undivided imo (which it is not). And it should open up interesting and cool abilities for marked units (which it does not)

So why should you play S2D? For the style and fun, if you want to win you should avoid fights and play the deny game however

[Charleston]

On the topic of Chariots:
I actually liked them quite a lot pre-BT because they were fast Objective Grabbers and a great way to fill a Battleline for cheap points. Now, after the Price bump, I don´t use them despite a theme Kavalery list. Impact damage can be nice but isn´t as reliable as it should be. Also the huge base is a huge disadvantage as the enemy will get a ton of units into the fight. MAke them 90-100pts and they are great again. 

[The World Tree]

4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

True.

S2D should be mainly about undivided imo (which it is not). And it should open up interesting and cool abilities for marked units (which it does not)

So why should you play S2D? For the style and fun, if you want to win you should avoid fights and play the deny game however

It is definitely a strange design choice for S2D book to encourage mono god armies!

[begleysm]

I was just getting excited about an all cavalry army and started wondering "why the heck don't they have a Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Demonic Mount" and then was even more disappointed to see that the pre-Battletome warscroll for the Chaos Sorcerer Lord allowed for a Demonic Mount!  Those dorks!



https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-chaos-sorcerer-lord-en.pdf

[begleysm]

I also just got excited about the Legion of Azgorh Forgeworld model Shar'tor the Executioner and just want to paint him because he's so cool! (reminds me of a Warcraft Pit Lord).

Started considering how I could use him and noticed we can't ally in Legion of Azgorh (but they can ally in StD!) (Edit: I learned that basically nobody can ally in LoA)  Lame (even though he probably wouldn't synergize that well).

I'm thinking about trying to mount him on a 120mm base and running him as a Slaughterbrute or putting him on a 120mm base and adding big wings and running him as a Chaos Lord on Manticore.  Maybe seeing it he'll fit on a 90mm base and running him as a Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (but I doubt he'll fit).

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Shartor-the-Executioner-FW

Edited April 18, 2020 by begleysm
fixed Karkadrak base size