AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[JackStreicher]

They just look really cool...

 

[peasant]

6 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

They just look really cool...

 

 

  Hide contents

Lovely

[Drib]

Quote

On 3/29/2020 at 12:01 AM, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

Here you go.  He’s definitely smaller than a Daemon Prince.

 

I love your take on Be'lakor's wings! Could you post a close up of him and also a short description what colours you used?

[whispersofblood]

On 4/1/2020 at 11:25 AM, Kurrilino said:

The main reason for the bad review is that they are priced like an ultra elite army point wise but perform way below mediocre units.

Also the limited selections of units that are playable is very annoying. Either you play a blob of 40 marauders with your beam around gimmick or you go home. Having a huge chunk of the featured units unplayable is not well received.

That brings me to the next topic. Most of the even remotely useful skills are randomly applied or connected to very high casting values. If you meet a magic heavy army, you can forget about your one trick pony marauder beaming and you are toast.

And there are people who care about the lore and highly question the unit strength. By lore, the guys getting stronger as much they raise in the ranks. For any reason, Marauders are the strongest and as more you move up, as weaker the units get.

IMO they are perfect for non competitive, themed role play. If you create god sworn warbands rampaging the country you will love them.

 

Just to be clear 1 marauder is not the equal to 1 chaos warriors. A lot of the power of marauders has nothing to do with the strength or power of a marauder. They are just multi-attack models, with access to rend on a 25mm base, and 40 models for objective play. 

I think the biggest issue with CW is that for 300 pts you get 15 CW with your choice of weapons (shields or Great weapons probably) and for 60 more points you get 10 knights. So even when you want a unit with a little more durability than Marauders... CW aren't a good option. And, that's before we look at Chosen. 

[sabres1226]

Thanks for all of your guys comments and advice.

It definitely seems like marauders are a popular choice, but I have also heard good things about them in other armies too (Hedonites of Slaneesh)

Is there anything the STD book that buffs them in a similar/better way then these other cases?

PS. What I know about the marauders and HOS is from before they were changed around so maybe they are not that good in that type of army anymore, I am just not caught up.

 

[readercolin]

31 minutes ago, sabres1226 said:

Thanks for all of your guys comments and advice.

It definitely seems like marauders are a popular choice, but I have also heard good things about them in other armies too (Hedonites of Slaneesh)

Is there anything the STD book that buffs them in a similar/better way then these other cases?

PS. What I know about the marauders and HOS is from before they were changed around so maybe they are not that good in that type of army anymore, I am just not caught up.

The big thing for Hedonites is that they have a trait where 6's explode army wide.  However, if you bring a unit of 20+, they don't explode into 1 extra hit, they explode into 2.  Since the minimum size of a unit of marauder is 20... well, until they start dying, they always explode into 2 hits.  This is on top of having a generally good stat profile (2 attacks, 3+/4+/-1), which means about 1/3 of the attacks you make are going to hit on average, and you get a unit that can throw a lot of flack downrange.  On top of this, if you bring either the warshrine or a sorcerer, you can give them full re-roll hit and wound rolls.

So what makes them good in StD vs other tomes?

Std can give them a "bubble" of bonuses.  For slannesh... this is probably worse, as that bubble is exploding 6's to hit.  For Khorne, they can get re-roll 1's to hit, and if near your general +1 to wound, but if you are running them Khorne allegiance you can give them prayer effects (+1 save, +1 to hit, etc), as well as having easier access to +1 attacks.  For nurgle, StD gives +1 damage on wound rolls of 6, while the nurgle allegiance gives them various effects from the Cycle of Corruption, as well as access to some reasonable spells (blades of putrefaction look great with marauders...), and they can run + charge if they start their charge near(ish) a feculant gnarlmaw.  For tzeentch marked... StD gives nothing of note, while for Tzeentch allegiance, um, well, they can easily get the Reckless Abandon gifts of worship?

However, beyond just the bubble of bonuses, the other thing that StD really gives the marauder is a single spell - Mask of Darkness.  Why is this important?  It teleports them anywhere on the board more than 9" away from an enemy unit.  Remember, marauders are guaranteed a minimum 8" charge (lowest dice becomes a 6, and they get +1, so double 1's gives you 8").  This is the real reason why you want to be running marauders in Slaves to Darkness vs another faction.  However, it is a casting value of 7, so it isn't all that reliable (especially in the face of counter magic).  

Basically, if you have a pack of marauders, they will pull their weight in basically any battletome.  The "bubble" of bonuses + spells generally gives a little bit more power/flexibility in Slaves than in other factions.  However, if you want to run them in another faction, they will pull their weight pretty well.

[JackStreicher]

3 hours ago, sabres1226 said:

Is there anything the STD book that buffs them in a similar/better way then these other cases?

PS. What I know about the marauders and HOS is from before they were changed around so maybe they are not that good in that type of army anymore, I am just not caught up.

 

Short answer: Only one thing: The teleportation Spell of S2D. In pretty any other case you are better off playing S2D units in one of the mono god tomes.

Slaanesh ist still strong and nothing that would affect Marauders was nerfed =}
 

cheers

[CeleFAZE]

5 hours ago, sabres1226 said:

Thanks for all of your guys comments and advice.

It definitely seems like marauders are a popular choice, but I have also heard good things about them in other armies too (Hedonites of Slaneesh)

Is there anything the STD book that buffs them in a similar/better way then these other cases?

PS. What I know about the marauders and HOS is from before they were changed around so maybe they are not that good in that type of army anymore, I am just not caught up.

 

Mostly as others have pointed out the marauders benefit from the teleportation spell,  which is S2D only. However, if you're running Slaanesh allegiance you can use the Lurid Haze Invaders host, which gives you a guaranteed turn 1 setup 9 inches from the enemy at the end of your movement phase with d3 units, which is roughly equivalent, or better if you're facing tough anti-magic armies. I suppose it's worse in a total commitment battleplan, but you still get a +1 save command ability which is pretty incredible on its own.

The other thing to consider with Slaanesh marauders is that the allegiance has basically no buffing spells to speak of, so you're going to need to rely on other S2D pieces to support your dudes. Also nothing your marauders do will generate depravity (beyond being in enemy territory for Invaders, but that's a negligible amount). They'll do a lot of work though, and put a threat in your opponent's face on turn one that can lock down critical defenses so you can move into position and get where you need to go.

In short slaves to darkness doesn't really give slaanesh marauders bonuses you can't get some amount of elsewhere, and with seraphon in the meta it's probably not a safe bet to bank on a strategy that hinges on a single, difficult to cast spell.

[TribalFox]

Hello all,

 

I'm a new StD player, and i'm not a regular AoS' player,so i need your advices on my 1k list, which is based on the start co :

Allegiance: Nurgle
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)
- General
- Command Trait: Virulent Contagion
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike
Chaos Lord (110)
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Lore of Foulness: Cloying Quagmire

Battleline
5 x Chaos Warriors (100)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Axes & Shields

Units
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
6 x Furies (100)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 77

 

So, what do you think about it? Seems too cheesy? I play in a fair environement mostly (with friends, for fun) but i can be tempted to go to minor tournament, like the ones in the local gw store.

Do you see things really bad in it? Do you have ways to improve the list?

 

Thanks

[Agent of Chaos]

Nothing cheesy about it mate. Hard to be cheesy with Slaves, especially in 1K points.

However it looks like you are running it as Nurgle Allegiance, as opposed to Nurgle marked slaves allegiance... is that right?

[Kurrilino]

On 4/7/2020 at 7:01 AM, TribalFox said:

Hello all,

 

I'm a new StD player, and i'm not a regular AoS' player,so i need your advices on my 1k list, which is based on the start co :

Allegiance: Nurgle
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)
- General
- Command Trait: Virulent Contagion
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike
Chaos Lord (110)
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Lore of Foulness: Cloying Quagmire

Battleline
5 x Chaos Warriors (100)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Axes & Shields

Units
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
6 x Furies (100)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 77

 

So, what do you think about it? Seems too cheesy? I play in a fair environement mostly (with friends, for fun) but i can be tempted to go to minor tournament, like the ones in the local gw store.

Do you see things really bad in it? Do you have ways to improve the list?

 

Thanks

To play Nurgle, everything else has to be Nurgle. Furies can't be marked. Maybe declare them as allies if possible

[123lac]

On 3/31/2020 at 10:55 AM, readercolin said:

What do you want out of playing Slaves to Darkness?

Do you want a cool army of Chaos Warriors and Knights, lead by a demon prince or a big, beefy mounted leader, walking in and going toe to toe with your opponent? 

Yes!

On 3/31/2020 at 10:55 AM, readercolin said:

Do you want an army that includes a bunch of the warcry warbands making an impact on the battlefield? 

Yes!

On 3/31/2020 at 10:55 AM, readercolin said:

Do you want an army that  consists of big blocks of chaos marauders, teleporting around the board and then charging in to slaughter whatever they run into?

Eww, no. Old models are no bueno.

On 3/31/2020 at 10:55 AM, readercolin said:

Do you like Archaon, and want to see him lead his Varanguard to victory? 

Eh, no, not a fan of Dorghar's model and the Varanguard cost too much ($170 AUD for 3 horsemen).

On 3/31/2020 at 10:55 AM, readercolin said:

Personally, I bought in to slaves to darkness because I like the aesthetic of the heavily armored warriors and cavalry charging towards my opponents and fighting them Mano e Mano.  After 3 months of playing the army, I'm going to finish painting them and then set them aside, because their performance is so poor on the battlefield.

Well that saved me some money at least. I'll never understand why GW give good rules to goofy models and bad rules to awesome new models. What's so hard about achieving some kind of balance?

[readercolin]

1 hour ago, 123lac said:

Yes!

Yes!

Eww, no. Old models are no bueno.

Eh, no, not a fan of Dorghar's model and the Varanguard cost too much ($170 AUD for 3 horsemen).

Well that saved me some money at least. I'll never understand why GW give good rules to goofy models and bad rules to awesome new models. What's so hard about achieving some kind of balance?

If you like the look of the big chaos warriors and chaos knights, then keep an eye on StD when they come out with the points update this summer/next winter.  At 100 points per 5, chaos warriors are overpriced garbage.  At 80 points per 5, we are now looking at 20 of them being barely more than 40 marauders, and while the marauders are killier, the warriors will at least stand out as being the tankier option (unlike now, where 15 warriors take about the same number of wounds as 40 warriors do, even after taking saves into account).

Similarly, while at 180 points per 5 Knights are overpriced, if they drop to 150 points per 5, then they start becoming more interesting to look at.  Still not necessarily competitive compared to marauders, but I can already get Knights to do some work, and saving 120 points when running 20 of them opens up a good amount of space.

Lastly, if they FAQ the warbands either to give them a god keyword, or the undivided keyword, or the ability to take a keyword, they immediately become a good bit better than they currently are.  This might happen with the release of a new General's Handbook, though I would expect that this probably wouldn't happen this summer, but might happen the one afterwards.  Alternatively, if they just decide to update the warscrolls to be a bit more competitive in a generals handbook, then they might become playable.

Just some things to keep in mind if you like the look of the army but not the current playstyle.

Edited April 10, 2020 by readercolin
Math is hard

[Pompe]

Just giving knights the ability to choose to use use lances or ensorcelled weapons would help a lot. Aren't the new aelvs to do that? After all the knights in the new SC are equipped with both. 

[JackStreicher]

29 minutes ago, Pompe said:

Just giving knights the ability to choose to use use lances or ensorcelled weapons would help a lot. Aren't the new aelvs to do that? After all the knights in the new SC are equipped with both. 

Absolutely this.

[The World Tree]

Yes, it is absolutely a shame and is part of the reason you don't see the gorgeous new Knight models. 

Similarly, just give warriors rend 1 for god sake.

[Gistradagis]

7 hours ago, readercolin said:

If you like the look of the big chaos warriors and chaos knights, then keep an eye on StD when they come out with the points update this summer/next winter.  At 100 points per 5, chaos warriors are overpriced garbage.  At 80 points per 5, we are now looking at 20 of them being barely more than 40 marauders, and while the marauders are killier, the warriors will at least stand out as being the tankier option (unlike now, where 15 warriors take about the same number of wounds as 40 warriors do, even after taking saves into account).

Similarly, while at 180 points per 5 Knights are overpriced, if they drop to 150 points per 5, then they start becoming more interesting to look at.  Still not necessarily competitive compared to marauders, but I can already get Knights to do some work, and saving 120 points when running 20 of them opens up a good amount of space.

Lastly, if they FAQ the warbands either to give them a god keyword, or the undivided keyword, or the ability to take a keyword, they immediately become a good bit better than they currently are.  This might happen with the release of a new General's Handbook, though I would expect that this probably wouldn't happen this summer, but might happen the one afterwards.  Alternatively, if they just decide to update the warscrolls to be a bit more competitive in a generals handbook, then they might become playable.

Just some things to keep in mind if you like the look of the army but not the current playstyle.

Honestly, I think we're being too optimistic here. After the StD update, practically no one used Chaos Knights, and Chaos Warriors were usually in some lists because we have no other real option for an anvil (yes, Marauders have similar "total wounds" but don't resist MWs or re-roll saves) even if they themselves aren't that good, and yet the FAQ not only didn't change them but made Warriors worse (could no longer mix weapons).

Fingers crossed this summer we see points reduction across the board in the General's for StD, but I'm not gonna keep my hopes up.

If we like how StD generally plays, I'd say to keep looking for ways to make their current playstyle more efficient because help might not be on its way.

[JackStreicher]

Alright the gods of randomness have decided that today I‘ll play S2D VS Seraphon, wish me Luck!

We used the random army generator and then randomizes even the unit types and units we‘ll play.

 

I am playing:

2x5 Knights

1x Varanguard

1x Daemon Prince

1x Ogroid Myrmidon

2x5 Chaos Warriors

1x Chaos Nurgle Chosen

1x Warshrine

 

VS

1x Slann Starmaster

1x Skink on Stegadon

1x Skink Starpriest

1x 20 Skinks

1x Saurus Knights

1x Saurus Guard

1x Emerald Lifeswarm

 

This will be interesting. We‘ll also play a random open war scenario 😀

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by JackStreicher

[begleysm]

I know most smart people are going with Ensorcelled Weapons on their Knights.  Well I think Lances look cool hehe.  Does anyone have a spare set of Cursed Lances from the newer Age of Sigmar: Slaves to Darkness Start Collecting Box, Chaos Knights?

I have 5 "old" knights that I want to equip with matching Lances.

[JackStreicher]

13 minutes ago, begleysm said:

I know most smart people are going with Ensorcelled Weapons on their Knights.  Well I think Lances look cool hehe.  Does anyone have a spare set of Cursed Lances from the newer Age of Sigmar: Slaves to Darkness Start Collecting Box, Chaos Knights?

I have 5 "old" knights that I want to equip with matching Lances.

I might have 5, yet only the upper part

[begleysm]

6 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I might have 5, yet only the upper part

That's the important part! 😜  If you do have them, and you're willing to part with them please send me a PM.

[Pompe]

I played a 2 day tournament with 20+ ppl and came third a few weeks ago. STD ended up in 2nd place as well, with Tzeentch (changehost) taking first place. I ran Undivided with 0 marauders, 15 warriors, 3x5 knights and 5 marauders horsemen in a ruinbringer and some other stuff in ravagers. 

I don't think you can play STD like a conventional army e.g. you take a hammer that deletes whatever is in front of it and then start trading units with the opponent. Instead it is about control and not letting the opponent play his game. Since I like the challenge of not having a top tier army and prefer having a few tricks up my sleeve rather than a straight forward combat army STD has proven to be perfect for me. 

The reason I went for Undivided is the auto immune to battle shock which makes units invaluable roadblocks. It also frees up a few CP which are extremely valuable in STD. Furthermore, the combination of the generals 6++ with the warshrine 6++ and rr saves from 2 x orracular visions and 10+ warriors makes the army incredibly tough. However, for future tournaments I want to try to run half Khorne, half Undivided so I get the best of both worlds. This forces me to bring heroes of both marks and gives me a choice of being more offensive or defensive in ravagers.

Regarding the low dmg from our units I agree, it is too low to whipe any unit off of the table with certainty. But 5 fully buffed knights does enough dmg to cripple most units so they do not pose as much of a threat any more. As for the block of 40 mortek guard, don't charge them head on. Tag them with one model and render them useless. Maybe STD have to be played like onions /Shrek (not Ogors), with several layers that you let the opponent peel off one by one? 

Lastly, for me it is much more rewarding to end up in 3rd place with a 2nd tier army such as STD than winning the second largest tournament here in Sweden as I did with Skaventide last spring. It was just not fun to steamroll whatever unit was in front of my monks.

[TMS]

@Pompe I'm glad to hear something inspiring like that. I want to give StD a go because of those sweet models and if you can make it work I'm sure I can too. 👍

[Pompe]

1 hour ago, TMS said:

@Pompe I'm glad to hear something inspiring like that. I want to give StD a go because of those sweet models and if you can make it work I'm sure I can too. 👍

Of course you can! But don't think you can play them like any other army. It's more about not fighting/ blocking the enemy than actually making the opponent removing models. Only way to do that is probably through Archaon,  and that play style was not for me. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Pompe

[Third]

I have been dancing around the new Slaves to Darkness starter box for a little while now.. But I am a little bummed by the fact that there are no full command crew for the Warriors and Knights  

Does anyone have good ideas on how to mod the new models to have commands?

 

They look sooo cool 😍 So might get them even without it being possible to fix.