JackStreicher Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, decker_cky said: They look great. Are those 25mm or 32mm bases? Marauders should be on 25s. It‘s 25mm. 32mm looks like this (Way more space): Edited March 25, 2020 by JackStreicher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 +++ Mod Hat On +++ @Kurrilino You have made your thoughts clear on Slaves to Darkness in previous posts but I’m going to ask you this; in this time where many people are restricted to where they can go and worried about what is happening, the last thing we want to see is negative posts just moaning. You are not being constructive, so can you leave the subject alone now. If you carry on, we will issue a temporary ban. @Everybody Else: this also applies to you. Please continue as you have been but if we see you doing similar behaviour, we will look at points and a temporary ban if it’s needed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
begleysm Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Could someone help me out with the dimensions on the Disc of Tzeentch that comes with the Gaunt Summoner on Disc? I'd love to get the diameter of the disc with and without the blades. Check out the image below for clarification. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaquilleoheal Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Any suggestions for alternative models for marauders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
begleysm Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Just now, Shaquilleoheal said: Any suggestions for alternative models for marauders? This has been covered a few times in this thread. I'd go back and search for more detail. But there are some minis from other manufacturers that have been mentioned. As for GW: Bloodreavers and Kairic Acolytes are common suggestions. I personally like Bloodreavers the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurrilino Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 10 hours ago, NJohansson said: But this is your main problem - it is not the same game as it was 10+ years ago. The world is new, the setting is new, the system is new - the fluff is vastly different. On a related note - I started playing chaos in the nineties and I don’t recall warriors ever being on the competitive side of things. They have always been overpriced and underperforming. Great lords, monsters, magic - but the big warrior units were seldom what dominated. Not sure we are playing the same game here. I won tournaments with Warriors of Chaos. And yes i used the heavy armored units. Giving every unit a mark and pay with points was the best thing in that army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaquilleoheal Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, begleysm said: This has been covered a few times in this thread. I'd go back and search for more detail. But there are some minis from other manufacturers that have been mentioned. As for GW: Bloodreavers and Kairic Acolytes are common suggestions. I personally like Bloodreavers the best. The probs using miniatures of other manufactures its on tournaments ( in my country only original models from GW are accepted at tournaments)and im looking some different conversion (different from kayric and bloodrevears) Edited March 25, 2020 by Shaquilleoheal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowgra Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 16 hours ago, Kurrilino said: Well, StD are supposed to be that heavy armored forces. If i like bunch of naked guys i play Khorne, if i want strong magic, i play Tzeench. So yes, people want to play warriors, knights and chariots. It's like telling a Tzeench player, your army is stronger without magic and treachery and if you don't like it play another army. This is you guys only and ever repeating argument. Go play another army. But you know what? People play the warriors since 10+ years and don't want to play another army, they want their gaming experience, they had since forever. So please spare me this, go play another army. If i want to ignore facts and look away if something is wrong, i would join a church. But i want to play warhammer like i used to the last 10+ years. And yes, this book sucks epic, doesn't matter how you look at it. while we are not a t1 book i managed to do pretty well with std so far. i am 3-0 with despoilers (that i still think it's the strongest of the subfactions) and am right now trying a knight of the empty throne list, i am 6-1 so far. in both list i rarely played more than 40 marauders, maybe once or twice in the despoiler one, in which i regularly play also chosens/knights. just my 2 cents anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurrilino Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 29 minutes ago, shadowgra said: while we are not a t1 book i managed to do pretty well with std so far. i am 3-0 with despoilers (that i still think it's the strongest of the subfactions) and am right now trying a knight of the empty throne list, i am 6-1 so far. in both list i rarely played more than 40 marauders, maybe once or twice in the despoiler one, in which i regularly play also chosens/knights. just my 2 cents anyway I am not too concerned about being a T1 book. It's more that newcomers and some regulars are just swept off the table if the opponents knows what he/she is doing. I am able to win as well but mostly because my opponents are not used to StD in their current state. My concern is if i play against StD with all 3 of my other armies i table the StD guys in my club in round 3 and people already refuse to play me when they bring StD. It's not that i am the 2nd coming, i just know the army well and if you deny their already sparse shenanigans, it's like baby seal clubbing. I just wish, 90% of the book weren't useless and it would stick more to the lore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readercolin Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I've been playing Slaves to Darkness for the past 3 months. My store was doing a league where we started at 1000 points, then went up to 1500 points, though I got a few 2k games in as well. From playing in this league, I would say that Ravagers are fun, but not worth playing at a competitive level. You are basically locking yourself into having to take the artifact that gives you an 18" bubble for your aura's, or your aura's aren't going to be covering enough units. Otherwise you end up with things like "I can make this charge, but then I'm not wholly within 12" waaaaaay too often. And lets be completely honest here - without either the slannesh, nurgle, or khorne buffs, most StD units just aren't really worth their points. Battalions are unplayable at 1000 points or 1500 points, and only really become worth playing with at 2k points. Chaos warriors are barely playable, and only really useful either as a MSU unit because you ran out of marauder horsemen for battleline requirements, or as a single big unit to act as a tough screen and prevent your opponent from charging into your jucier units behind. Of course, even though they are tough (ish), they still fold to most competitive(ish) forces because everyone is running around with rend or just an extraordinary number of high damage attacks. Chaos Knights are... fine, but only really playable with ensorcelled weapons because they are slow enough that you can't reliably charge with them in most matchups. Plenty of people will say "Just give it some re-roll buffs". Sure, we'll use our 1 spell that gives re-rolls (on a 7, so... 50% of the time we can get it), or use the warshrine buffs, which are on a 3+, meaning 1/3 of the time they won't go off. These are too unreliable in practice to actually be effective at buffing our units, simply because outside of marauders teleporting Slaves are too slow to actually dictate engagements. And when you can't dictate engagements, your opponent will be able to ignore the unit that you threw buffs onto and take out the rest of your army, or just engage that buffed unit at range and neuter its power. So what actually works? Archaon + varanguard + marauders lists. People have been able to make these work competitively and have some results to show for it. Of course, you can't run Varanguard outside of the 6th circle just because that circle + aura + buffs is enough to triple their damage output, which means that they can actually do respectable damage. Of course, without those buffs, they are far too pillowfisted to be worth 300 points a pop. Marauder Heavy lists work, because marauders are basically the one unit that is actually worth their points in the book. To the point that they are almost twice as efficient as the next best unit in the book. This means that they are actually near the same level competitively as some of the other top books. Gamey lists utilizing multiple Gaunt Summoner's work, though generally more because Pink Horrors are so pushed at the moment than because the gaunt summoner's themselves are that great. Finally, the Nurgle Battalion works when paired with tanky units. Notably here, some armies will kill themselves faster to the mortal wounds from this than from your own units hitting them... which says more bad things about how abysmal the damage output of slaves are than about how good the battalion is to be honest. Are people right to be upset with this book? Yeah, I would say so. Especially if you are wanting to play a "traditional" StD army utilizing warriors and knights. Or if you are wanting to play with your warcry warbands and have them be remotely useful. Are others right to say that you can play StD competitively? Yes, they are. Are both sides of the argument talking past each other because of their different expectations? Absolutely. Can the problems be fixed with points adjustments? To an extent, yes. Some of the problems are integral to how the book was written, namely the aura bubbles around the hero's, and issues relating to that. If someone's biggest issue is this, then StD is probably not the book for them. Other issues like Chaos Knights not being worth their points though is a much different issue, as dropping them from 180 points to 150 points suddenly makes them much more appealing. Chaos Warriors dropping to 80 points for 5 makes them an interesting option over marauders if you are looking for something tankier. And FAQ giving the warcry warbands the ability to take marks (or even just giving them the undivided keyword) can give them options that they don't currently have. These are all things that could be changed with GHB2020, and providing that feedback is important to some of us here. 5 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j0lt Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Just want to ask, has anyone used a War Mammoth yet? Or is 320 too big of a sink? I'd love to have a list to use some shiny Warriors and a War Mammoth, with 40 Mauraders. So I've come up with this (very WIP) I'm happy to drop the Knights if the more experienced players can make some suggestions, I'd like to avoid Maurader Horsemen because I'm not overly fond of the models. I'm thinking of going Despoilers and dropping some cheaper heroes in, Any thoughts would be great! ++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Chaos - Slaves to Darkness) [1,630pts] ++ + Leader + Chaos Lord on Karkadrak [250pts]: 5. Dimensional Blade, General, Khorne + Behemoth + Chaos War Mammoth [320pts]: Chaos Marauder Chieftain, CREW (Treated as a mount), Khorne + Battleline + Chaos Knights [360pts]: 2x 5 Chaos Knights, Cursed Lance, Hornblower, Khorne, Standard Bearer Chaos Marauders [300pts]: 2x 20 Chaos Marauders, Barbarian Axes and Darkwood Shields, Drummer, Khorne Chaos Warriors [200pts]: 2x 5 Chaos Warriors, Chaos Hand Weapons and Chaos Runeshields, Hornblower, Khorne, Standard Bearer Chaos Warriors [200pts]: 2x 5 Chaos Warriors, Chaos Hand Weapons and Chaos Runeshields, Hornblower, Khorne, Standard Bearer + Allegiance + Allegiance . Slaves to Darkness: Despoilers + Game Options + Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost + Realm of Origin + Realm of Origin: Origin: Ulgu ++ Total: [1,630pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 @j0lt yes we have, there‘s even a separate thread for it. It can work (and it has for me!) yet you‘d better use it in a Ravager list to get the 18“ aura from the artefact on your karkadrak. =} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midjithero Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 6 hours ago, Shaquilleoheal said: The probs using miniatures of other manufactures its on tournaments ( in my country only original models from GW are accepted at tournaments)and im looking some different conversion (different from kayric and bloodrevears) So in all honestly, you could use almost anything as a base if you are converting things. But everything needs to be cohesive, Needs to fit on a 25mm base, and it cannot be confusing for your opponent. Kairic acolytes and blood reavers are the most obvious choices when maki g marauder conversions, but I REALLY wanted to use Witch Aelves, just couldn’t afford to spend almost $60 for 10 models (which would be $480 for the 80 models I needed). also, it depends on the God marks (if any) you want yours to be. You could plop some human heads onto pink horrors with some shields for some Tzeentch marauders. the new Warcry sets make excellent bases for marauders for both conversions and counts-as. there are lots of options, your imagination is the key...well maybe a sufficient bitz box too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themortalgod Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 17 hours ago, j0lt said: Just want to ask, has anyone used a War Mammoth yet? Or is 320 too big of a sink? I'd love to have a list to use some shiny Warriors and a War Mammoth, with 40 Mauraders. I haven't run mine recently, but my general feeling about the Mammoth is that he is decent for his pts but he is simply too big to be practical in game. That 260x210 base just doesn't fit anywhere on the field which means you are perma bogged down climbing over every piece of terrain which more or less stops him from going anywhere because of his slow movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themortalgod Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 23 hours ago, Shaquilleoheal said: The probs using miniatures of other manufactures its on tournaments ( in my country only original models from GW are accepted at tournaments)and im looking some different conversion (different from kayric and bloodrevears) Is this really a problem for most people? Most third party tournaments don't care, just official GW ones. I imagine that the vast vast vast majority of players never play at a GW event. Personally I haven't been at one in like 20 years. I think for most using altnerative minis is not at all a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaquilleoheal Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 32 minutes ago, themortalgod said: Is this really a problem for most people? Most third party tournaments don't care, just official GW ones. I imagine that the vast vast vast majority of players never play at a GW event. Personally I haven't been at one in like 20 years. I think for most using altnerative minis is not at all a problem. In my country ( Italy) on official league yes, conversion from gw models are accepted,using models from different franchise like Artel,etc etc no..If u play 9th is another thing,but on AoS official torunament just gw models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) In Germany I've never heard of a tournament (except those taking place in a GW store) that forces you to take GW miniatures. Edited March 26, 2020 by JackStreicher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Is it me or Bel'akor daemon prince miniature (failcast) seems really tiny compared to a classic daemon prince (plastic)? Any picture for a comparison? I can't find one. I don't like that a nice char/hero badass is so little on the battlefield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 On 3/25/2020 at 1:33 PM, readercolin said: I've been playing Slaves to Darkness for the past 3 months. My store was doing a league where we started at 1000 points, then went up to 1500 points, though I got a few 2k games in as well. From playing in this league, I would say that Ravagers are fun, but not worth playing at a competitive level. Hahaha here's my version, almost exactly the same. I've been playing Slaves to Darkness for the past 3 months. My store was doing a league where we started at 1000 points, then went up to 1500 points, though I got a few 2k games in as well. From playing in this league, I would say that Ravagers Warrior-heavy Cabalists are fun, but not worth playing at a competitive level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_moo Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 On 3/25/2020 at 4:35 PM, shadowgra said: while we are not a t1 book i managed to do pretty well with std so far. i am 3-0 with despoilers (that i still think it's the strongest of the subfactions) and am right now trying a knight of the empty throne list, i am 6-1 so far. in both list i rarely played more than 40 marauders, maybe once or twice in the despoiler one, in which i regularly play also chosens/knights. just my 2 cents anyway Hey! Would you be willing to share the two lists? I'm splitting my head open trying to figure out what a competitive slaves army would look like where I could fit in a demon prince, chaos warriors and chaos knights. I can live with mandatory 20 to 40 marauders and 5 horsemen to zip around. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzalyn Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 On 3/25/2020 at 11:50 AM, Shaquilleoheal said: The probs using miniatures of other manufactures its on tournaments ( in my country only original models from GW are accepted at tournaments)and im looking some different conversion (different from kayric and bloodrevears) Just an ideia, the spite tyrants look like good altenatives If you dont have a problem using some nohumann models (or using models from a unit as another one). They have a 9 models in a box (18 when de get ter Aos box version), which mean you would need 4 models to round a 40 models unit. The Scion of the flame come with 8 models, 4 of them could make good alternatives for a chaos lord/exalted hero of chaos, 2 chaos sorcerer and a darkoath chieftain. The remaining 4 could be used with the spire tyrants to complet a 40 unit of marauders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer & Pretzels Gamer Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 On 3/27/2020 at 9:21 AM, GeneralZero said: Is it me or Bel'akor daemon prince miniature (failcast) seems really tiny compared to a classic daemon prince (plastic)? Any picture for a comparison? I can't find one. I don't like that a nice char/hero badass is so little on the battlefield. Here you go. He’s definitely smaller than a Daemon Prince. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystischer Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Hi , have some one some 1500 point list's for me. We have a new slaves player in ower group , all the models but no idea of list building. Thanks for the help And she loves her Archaon 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 3 hours ago, Mystischer said: And she loves her Archaon 😅 Playing Archaon in a 1500 pts party is not good....for the other players. I advice not to include him in a less than 2k pts army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaquilleoheal Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 17 hours ago, Arzalyn said: Just an ideia, the spite tyrants look like good altenatives If you dont have a problem using some nohumann models (or using models from a unit as another one). They have a 9 models in a box (18 when de get ter Aos box version), which mean you would need 4 models to round a 40 models unit. The Scion of the flame come with 8 models, 4 of them could make good alternatives for a chaos lord/exalted hero of chaos, 2 chaos sorcerer and a darkoath chieftain. The remaining 4 could be used with the spire tyrants to complet a 40 unit of marauders. Y bro thx..nice idea! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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