AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Eldarain]

11 hours ago, Charleston said:

I have to toy around if this is rather something for a Despoilers or Ravagers list, althrough I really like Despoilers for the access to LoS blockeing and the healing. Also, a Nurgle DP within 6" of the Harbringer of Decay having a 3+/5++/5++ and an additional 6+ within range of the Warshrine seems quite OBR levels of tanky to me.

Neither of those things work with a Daemon Prince unfortunately.

[Charleston]

1 minute ago, Eldarain said:

Neither of those things work with a Daemon Prince unfortunately.

Oh, you are right, he is not a mortal. Thanks for pointing out, I was a bit hyped yesterday so I forgot to check the Keywords!

[TaurielBlack]

Is it still possible to get the Chaos Marauders to hit and wound on a 2+?  Or is that the old stuff? Cause I've searched high and low, with the lowest I can get it, is hitting on 2's thanks to horde rule and a Slaanesh daemon prince CA (though not ideal as you have to lose models first and that isn't helpful when marauders die so easily), and wounding on 4's  So I'm just wondering if I'm missing something? The most consistent I can make them is hitting on 3's, rerolling ones (due to khorne) and wounding on 3's. With possibly rerolling all things due to Daemonic Power from a Sorcerer Lord.

Edited March 10, 2020 by TaurielBlack

[readercolin]

Weighing in on the Chaos Warrior argument:

I've been playing with 40 chaos warriors for the past 2 months, trying everything from 5 man units up to 25 man units.

A 5 man unit is... ok as a MSU unit that is sitting around to count as cheap battleline and sit back and hold objectives.  Run them similarly to Stormcast Sequitors/liberators, don't expect much out of them, and they'll do "fine".  Technically you could take units of marauder horsemen for 10 points less and still meet the battleline requirement, but if you don't have horsemen you aren't losing much by taking these guys instead.  If you are using them this way, I think that dual hand weapons is the best way to do so, as most people aren't going to be wasting mortal wounds on small squads of warriors, and the re-rolling attacks is a decent buff.  Also, you aren't likely to waste your buffs on a small unit like this.

A 10 man unit is a waste of time.  The added damage from adding 5 more isn't particularly great, and you only get the re-roll saves until you take 2+ wounds, and getting rid of that save does make them a strong target for tossing out a few mortal wounds.  They are also small enough that you usually wont wan't to be wasting your buffs on this unit.

A 15 man unit is the "sweet spot" for efficiency.  They have to take 12 wounds to lose their re-roll saves, you usually can get 10+ into combat, and the unit is large enough and can do enough that it is worth putting some buffs on them.  If I'm not trying to get minimum points for battleline, I will generally default to running a 15 man block of warriors.  But what loadout?  Here, shields can pay off as it makes the unit be a poor target for horde clearing spells.  If your opponent doesn't have horde clearing spells, then dual hand weapons is great, as now you can buff just their to-wound for good results.  This works well with a nurgle warshrine buff, or with the Khorne general aura (3+rr/2+/-/1 is a good array).  It is also really nice with a bloodstoker ally, because he can give +3" to run/charge, and full wound re-roll (meaning that they have a +4 to charge, and have full re-rolls on hits and wounds).

Finally, 20+ man units.  The only way that I've had success with really big units is to use them as a super-tanky screen.  Sit these guys in front, force your opponents to attack into them, and then when they inevitably die then you can countercharge with your unit behind.  A 20 man squad is really unwieldy, won't all get into combat, and anything that engages them is either going to be doing so just to lock them down, or does enough damage that a large unit doesn't bother them.  However, a 20 man squad is enough that they can basically cover the entire width of the board (if base to base, that's a minimum of 25"), which works great for absorbing an alpha strike.

As for weapons, I find large blocks want to run weapon and shield, specifically for the resistance to horde clearing spells.  Whether that weapon is a hand weapon or a halberd is more up to taste, but I find that the halberds tend to allow ~50% more models into combat, and allows you to deploy the units 2 ranks deep, which helps with damage application and keeping units in range for buffs.  That being said, they only really start to pay off when you run units of 20+, as at 15 the extra models in combat only really comes up until they are hit.

Smaller units tend to wield the dual weapons better, as their damage application is more notable.  However, an argument can be made for a 15 man block with great weapons, as that is a large enough block to be worth spending buffs on, while still being small enough that it doesn't reaaaally pay off to blast it with horde clearing spells.  I don't think it really pays off to use great weapons at any other numbers though, as they only get better damage than 2 weapons when you can buff them.

So to sum it up:

5 man squads: 2 weapons
10 man squads: don't bother running them
15 man squads: whatever floats your boat/looks coolest
20+ man squads: Either hand weapon + shield or halberd + shield

[Grimrock]

@readercolin thanks for taking the time to write that up! I've been planning to try out a 20 man unit in a plague touched battalion, I figured I could try to back them up with a harbinger of decay and screen/tank for the marauders. Plus the plague touched mortals might help mitigate their lack of damage. Good to know that I'm not totally off track.

[annarborhawk]

So I had pretty good success with a Knights of the Empty Throne list at a doubles tournament over the weekend. We went 4-1 (losing to the champions).

Anyway I had:

Varanguard (general) (khorne) (reroll charge trait) (6" pile in artefact) (deamonforged weapons)

Varanguard (khorne) (demonic weapons)

Sorcerer Lord (mask of darkness)

5x knights (khorne)

5x warriors (khorne)

[Partner had Gore Pilgrims and Blood Thirster]

Anyway, the 6" pile-in artifact (grasping plate), together with the once per game attack twice is REALLY effective. When that unit gets Oracular Vision'd and Demonic Powered - holy hell. The 6" pile in gives your general a 22" threat range. (And it was REALLY handy at avoiding the insane overwatch fire from CoS handgunners). That second pile in I was often able to use to get to some juicy prize behind a screen.

In the two tightest games we won, both units of varanguard were ultimately killed - which required a lot of resources to do - but in each game I got one of the 5-up's to bring on a new a unit of Varanguard from a table edge to secure an objective (and the win). (And as a new unit, it gets to attack twice).

I think that 2000 pt Pleasurebound Warband list above will probably be extremely good. Although, as I read the rules for that battalion, those other units of Varanguard will need to get that initial charge in b4 they can use the 6" pile in; whereas the general will be able to camp at 6" after a run, and then pile in 9" - twice).  I'm thinking maybe making the general a unit of 6x varanguard - 22" threat, followed by 2x 9" pile in's: talk about limiting your opponent's deployment/movement options.....

Another note, I ran the numbers b4 the tournament: W/O Archaon, Daemonforged Weapons and Mark of Khorne give you the best expected damage output vs. most defensive profiles, no matter the buffs. (They were reliably doing 10-14 damage vs. a 4+ target).  In Host of Everchosen, with 6th Circle, etc. - then enscorcelled weapons are the way to go....  

 

[PainfullyMediocre]

Thats good to see, that pile in artefact looks like its ripe for shenannigans.

[Midjithero]

On 3/7/2020 at 1:25 PM, Vestrial said:

After all the feedback and two post about my list I want to work on that one. Focusing more on the tanking nature of the Warriors and the Suicidal/dps of the marauders. Hopefully that's gonna work.

What you think ? 1990 points

Not sure if you’ve received feedback for this list or not, but the DP don’t have the mortal keyword and so wot fit into the battallion.  Could drop the 10 man warriors unit to make one of the 20 marauders a 40 man unit and include a spawn and that should work?

[Revan123]

I found one of a few ways to play Slaves to Darkness competatively, not putting them in Nurgle. Thanks to Poland. I won against 100 morteks with this and could win against Nagash, if I do everything right.

[cplhicks]

I'm kinda interested in dipping my toe into a small 1000pts tournament and was wondering if this list would be ok.

I plan on summoning Marauder cav as I own the models and I like their speed and ranged attack abilities plus hit and run.   I chose undivided because I wanted the immunity to BS it provides.  With such big blobs I know I'm going to need it.   Does it sound good or am I off base here? 

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Ravagers

Leaders
Exalted Hero of Chaos (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Flames of Spite
- Artefact: Mark of the High-favoured
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos
- Ravagers Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of Deception
Exalted Hero of Chaos (90)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Ravagers Command Trait: Eternal Vendetta

Battleline
40 x Chaos Marauders (300)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
40 x Chaos Marauders (300)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 100
 

[Snakeb1te]

44 minutes ago, cplhicks said:

I'm kinda interested in dipping my toe into a small 1000pts tournament and was wondering if this list would be ok.

I plan on summoning Marauder cav as I own the models and I like their speed and ranged attack abilities plus hit and run.   I chose undivided because I wanted the immunity to BS it provides.  With such big blobs I know I'm going to need it.   Does it sound good or am I off base here? 

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Ravagers

Leaders
Exalted Hero of Chaos (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Flames of Spite
- Artefact: Mark of the High-favoured
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos
- Ravagers Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of Deception
Exalted Hero of Chaos (90)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Ravagers Command Trait: Eternal Vendetta

Battleline
40 x Chaos Marauders (300)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
40 x Chaos Marauders (300)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 100
 

Not sure about your model availability but here would by my suggestions:

You don't need two Sorceror Lords, replace one with the Chaos Lord to allow one of the Marauder blobs to pile in twice and delete something!

If you do that, you won't need a second Exalted Hero in my opinion, as you will not be able to spend a command point every turn to summon in AND use the Chaos Lord fight twice. I'd replace the second Exalted Hero with one squad of Marauder Horsemen.

[cplhicks]

52 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

Not sure about your model availability but here would by my suggestions:

You don't need two Sorceror Lords, replace one with the Chaos Lord to allow one of the Marauder blobs to pile in twice and delete something!

If you do that, you won't need a second Exalted Hero in my opinion, as you will not be able to spend a command point every turn to summon in AND use the Chaos Lord fight twice. I'd replace the second Exalted Hero with one squad of Marauder Horsemen.

Thanks for the feedback!  I do have the models to make these changes so it's all good.  I was worried about CP and what you said makes a lot of sense. 

 

 

[begleysm]

2 minutes ago, cplhicks said:

Thanks for the feedback!  I do have the models to make these changes so it's all good.  I was worried about CP and what you said makes a lot of sense. 

 

 

Do remember that each Leader can only summon units once per game so 3 leaders means 3 turns of summoning (which might be fine).

[themortalgod]

3 hours ago, cplhicks said:

I'm kinda interested in dipping my toe into a small 1000pts tournament and was wondering if this list would be ok.

I plan on summoning Marauder cav as I own the models and I like their speed and ranged attack abilities plus hit and run.   I chose undivided because I wanted the immunity to BS it provides.  With such big blobs I know I'm going to need it.   Does it sound good or am I off base here? 

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Ravagers

Leaders
Exalted Hero of Chaos (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Flames of Spite
- Artefact: Mark of the High-favoured
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos
- Ravagers Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of Deception
Exalted Hero of Chaos (90)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Ravagers Command Trait: Eternal Vendetta

Battleline
40 x Chaos Marauders (300)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
40 x Chaos Marauders (300)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 100
 

Personally, I think you'd be better off with one of the other marks. If you need BS immunity at a certain moment, just spend a CP, meanwhile Khorne, Nurgle, or Slaanesh all reflect a significant increase in the offensive output of a unit of marauders.

Side note, imo, you are better off summoning marauders over marauder horsemen because the minimum 8 inch charge out of a 9 inch deep strike makes them very attractive to show up and cause havoc on the turn they arrive.

[Snakeb1te]

7 hours ago, Revan123 said:

I found one of a few ways to play Slaves to Darkness competatively, not putting them in Nurgle. Thanks to Poland. I won against 100 morteks with this and could win against Nagash, if I do everything right.

I really like this list - I have a similar one but without the beatsticks you have, do you mind critiquing it?

 

[cplhicks]

20 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

Personally, I think you'd be better off with one of the other marks. If you need BS immunity at a certain moment, just spend a CP, meanwhile Khorne, Nurgle, or Slaanesh all reflect a significant increase in the offensive output of a unit of marauders.

Side note, imo, you are better off summoning marauders over marauder horsemen because the minimum 8 inch charge out of a 9 inch deep strike makes them very attractive to show up and cause havoc on the turn they arrive.

 

It sucks to lose the offensive buffs for sure (Nurgle is my favorite chaos god!)but I'm pretty strapped for CP as it is, with the Lord's fight twice ability and summoning abilities of the list.  With the Undivided trait  it helps me to mange what little CP I have not having to worry about burning it for IP   Good point on the summoning foot marauders!  If get more marauder models I'm going to swap out the horsemen for the extra charge abilities . Thanks for the feedback!

[Charleston]

@Snakeb1te: I may not be him but I see some differences:

First of all, the Emerald Lifeswarm as defensive spell does not enough for it´s points. An CP spend for an morale check that keeps 10 marauders from running nets you already more value instead. The Palisade without an Umbral Spellportal has a much smaller area that can be denied. Also the Umbral Spellportal allows you to cast the spells right into where it hurts your opponent, f.e. into their backline. At the same time the auto-dispell of the Lord of Change allows you to close the Portal again so your opponent wont retailiate. Meanwhile it can be argued if the Gaunt Summoner or the Manticore is better, as the "free" Horrors that can be summoned by the GS provide the Daemonrift another +1 and allow some shooting.

His list is build with a lot more of controll in mind. Belakor is great at denying your opponent stuff, the Sorcerer on Manticore can either shred big blobs or halt them while providing -1 to hit so shooty lists can´t get rid of your chaff. In same manner the DP of Khorne can actively keep the enemy from charging you. I´ve already had several games in which my opponent didn´t get a single charge despite beeing in 4". There is also a lot of +1 to cast effects, thats why I see the LoC there, which leads to more consistency for the casting rolls and allows a supermacy in the magic phase. All this elements make his list viable for competetive play.

 

[Midjithero]

19 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

I really like this list - I have a similar one but without the beatsticks you have, do you mind critiquing it?

 

This is why I don’t like our 1 cast sorcerers...

you have 350ish points devoted to endless spells, but only able to cast 3.2 spells per round.  You either need more 2 cast casters (be’lakor/keeper/Epitome/Kairos/etc) or you are seriously wasting points in endless spells.  Effectively you have 13 choices of spells to cast, and only 3 attempts.
I do think Godswrath is key to a Cabalist list, so love your addition of that!  Could drop the 20 marauders for 10 more marauder horsemen.  Your 40 block will be your only real combat threat, but that’s fine because you are screening with horses and endless spells and blasting units with spells (double moving Daemonrift is potentially insane!!)

[Snakeb1te]

44 minutes ago, Midjithero said:

This is why I don’t like our 1 cast sorcerers...

you have 350ish points devoted to endless spells, but only able to cast 3.2 spells per round.  You either need more 2 cast casters (be’lakor/keeper/Epitome/Kairos/etc) or you are seriously wasting points in endless spells.  Effectively you have 13 choices of spells to cast, and only 3 attempts.
I do think Godswrath is key to a Cabalist list, so love your addition of that!  Could drop the 20 marauders for 10 more marauder horsemen.  Your 40 block will be your only real combat threat, but that’s fine because you are screening with horses and endless spells and blasting units with spells (double moving Daemonrift is potentially insane!!)

With the balewind doesn't the number of casts go to 4?

The x20 is there to act as a screen basically, both for the wizards and the x40 group. This is a turtle list, so I want to bunker up and just spam the spells around the board, compounded further by the pink horror summon the Gaunt.S will have.

The reason I'm fine with low casts is because we can comfortably put those endless spells out with the casting ritual, but the opponent should in theory have trouble dispelling them (none of my opponents are magic heavy). The idea then is to summon them and have them running around the board, with the opponent struggling to extinguish them. I feel like I have enough horde clearing between the Manticore Sorcerer and the Summoner, and I also have plenty of screening (prismatic palisade too). Question is whether I can kill elites and heroes with the spells available.

The question is whether people feel I have enough ability to take objectives and deal damage. I'm also wondering whether the spells I've chosen will be sufficient/efficient. The Emerald Lifeswarm for instance, doesn't seem worth 50 points, but the idea is to regenerate whatever bodies the ritual claims from the marauders, or even heal the Manticore/Horrors in a pinch

Edited March 11, 2020 by Snakeb1te

[Midjithero]

2 hours ago, Snakeb1te said:

With the balewind doesn't the number of casts go to 4?

The x20 is there to act as a screen basically, both for the wizards and the x40 group. This is a turtle list, so I want to bunker up and just spam the spells around the board, compounded further by the pink horror summon the Gaunt.S will have.

The reason I'm fine with low casts is because we can comfortably put those endless spells out with the casting ritual, but the opponent should in theory have trouble dispelling them (none of my opponents are magic heavy). The idea then is to summon them and have them running around the board, with the opponent struggling to extinguish them. I feel like I have enough horde clearing between the Manticore Sorcerer and the Summoner, and I also have plenty of screening (prismatic palisade too). Question is whether I can kill elites and heroes with the spells available.

The question is whether people feel I have enough ability to take objectives and deal damage. I'm also wondering whether the spells I've chosen will be sufficient/efficient. The Emerald Lifeswarm for instance, doesn't seem worth 50 points, but the idea is to regenerate whatever bodies the ritual claims from the marauders, or even heal the Manticore/Horrors in a pinch

So are you playing in competitive tourneys or just a local meta?  If you fight anything with a wizard or dispel inthe army you will be F’ed  

Yes, the balewind gives you an additional spell Apologies for not catching that part, but that’s still not enough for all of the spells you have available in all honesty.  You should drop it down to 3 max endless and bring in more wizards.  Cabalists want to cast spells  

I hope I’m wrong, but even only having 2 endless spells with Be’lakor, Manticore and Sorc Lord, I have trouble prioritizing between the base spell/endless spell/book spells...we have an amazing spell lore and warscroll spells 

[JackStreicher]

Changing topic

has anyone seem nice, clean Chaos Sorcerer Lord Conversions? 🙂

[begleysm]

22 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Changing topic

has anyone seem nice, clean Chaos Sorcerer Lord Conversions? 🙂

I haven't executed it yet, but I plan on replacing the horny head with a bald head and greenstuffing a hood/cowl onto it.  I don't care for the stock horns/nose/mouth.

Edited March 11, 2020 by begleysm

[Chaosoule]

Not sure if it meets your definition of nice and clean, but I'm quite happy with this one I did combining Gamesday model and gaunt. Severed heads resembling the  cabalist sacrifice rituals. I imagine that he eats them...

On subject of cabalist builds I've been assuming the way to go would be three gaunts and blue scribes for casting rerolls, screened against an alpha strike to get their pinks out, daemonrift and other endless spells, then whatever you want with the remaining points. But not played it. Is it too cheese?

 

[W1tchhunter]

50 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Changing topic

has anyone seem nice, clean Chaos Sorcerer Lord Conversions? 🙂

This is mine, used bits from a stormcast mage and the manticore sorcerer.

[Da Bid Dabid]

Here's mine. I've played one game thus far and this has been a great resource for getting into AoS. So thanks forum!