AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[NJohansson]

1 hour ago, Grimrock said:

Yeah I ran through it again and the axe is about the same against 4+ and 5+ saves, but the sword is better against the rest. It's all rough head math but I did it by taking 6 princes of each type and just running through the averages against a given save. Honestly they're close enough that you could take whatever though.

This is basic math:

Axe 3*2/3*2/3*2 will be 2.6 wounds before saves

Sword 4*2/4*2/3*2 will also be 2.6 wounds before saves

The Axe has a better rend while the sword has a higher spike for damage. Really up to your preference and what you will be facing.

[Gistradagis]

17 minutes ago, NJohansson said:

This is basic math:

Axe 3*2/3*2/3*2 will be 2.6 wounds before saves

Sword 4*2/4*2/3*2 will also be 2.6 wounds before saves

The Axe has a better rend while the sword has a higher spike for damage. Really up to your preference and what you will be facing.

Not really. if you're counting the +1 to hit with charge (which you shouldn't), Sword would be 4*3, and I'm not sure what do you mean with the 3*2 at the end. You're also forgetting that each attack has a 1/6 chance of doing 0 dmg but 2 MWs, which makes the equation a bit more difficult.

[begleysm]

No need to reinvent the wheel... this is what AoS Statshammer is for... https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/

 

Pure averages show that the sword outperforms the axe regardless of save.  But, as everyone is saying, the axe is more consistent damage and the sword is swingier.

You can tell the sword is swingier because the axe does maximum 6 damage (3 attacks * 2 wounds per attack) and the sword does maximum 12 damage (4 attacks * 3 wounds per attack) aka double or 100% more max damage.  Therefore to have averages as close as they are (the sword does 17.7% more average damage than the axe assuming you fight an equal distribution of save values) with double the maximum damage it must be doing less than damage than the axe on many occasions.

Edited March 2, 2020 by begleysm

[readercolin]

3 hours ago, Gistradagis said:

Well, guess I'll have to check it again, then. Since I remember discussing it shortly after the tome release and people agreeing that the sword only made sense if coupled with smth such as the Sword of Judgement due to slightly lower damage across the table.

 

3 hours ago, Grimrock said:

Yeah I ran through it again and the axe is about the same against 4+ and 5+ saves, but the sword is better against the rest. It's all rough head math but I did it by taking 6 princes of each type and just running through the averages against a given save. Honestly they're close enough that you could take whatever though.

Running the actual numbers:

The sword is better - barely.  Taking it blank off the warscroll without any other buffs, the ax does an average of 2.67 damage (against a 5+ or worse save), while the sword does an average of 3.11 against a 6+ or worse save.  Against a 5+ save, the sword does 2.81 damage on average.  Then as saves get better, the sword gets better, just because of the 2 mortal's on 6's to hit pushing through more damage and ignoring the rend.

If we modify this to look at charging damage, the ax goes up to 3.33 damage, while the sword goes up to 4.  Again, they get closer at a 5+ save, but once saves get better than the sword wins again due to the mortal's on 6's.

Charging while being a Khorne general, we see the one and only area where the ax wins against the sword - it deals 4.86 damage to a 5+ save, while the sword deals 4.8 damage.  Once again, all other saves favor the sword.

Is there a case where through other buffs we can get the ax to be better than the sword?  Yes, but it involves getting outside of pure StD.  Here, we need to bring in allies (or switch to another faction) that can give us +attack.  +1 attack makes the Ax better vs 4+ and 5+ saves, and about equal vs 6+'s.  +2 attacks bumps the numbers some more, but doesn't change the overall result.

Are any of these numbers significant enough to actually care about though?  Not really.  We are talking about something like a 5% difference in damage output.  While this could be significant if we could have say, a unit of 5 princes, on individual ones it is rather mediocre.  We are also talking about a unit that is going to be dealing 4-5 wounds on average when it attacks, 5-7 if it charges, before taking into account mark buff's or artefacts/command traits.  It is also a daemon unit, and can't carry many of the StD buffs (like chaos lord pile in and attack twice, or Daemonic Power full re-rolls) because they target only mortals.

[Praecautus]

The other decision For the prince is artefacts, if taking blade of judgement then sword is the way to go. The MW of both stack and you have more chances to roll for the blade.

[misthv]

Looking into alternative builds—anyone have any ideas on fun/semi-competitive lists w a Cabalist build? I’m not looking into doing a Gaunt spam (but I’d happily use the one I’ve got)! What have you guys played around with?

[NJohansson]

5 hours ago, Gistradagis said:

Not really. if you're counting the +1 to hit with charge (which you shouldn't), Sword would be 4*3, and I'm not sure what do you mean with the 3*2 at the end. You're also forgetting that each attack has a 1/6 chance of doing 0 dmg but 2 MWs, which makes the equation a bit more difficult.

An average of 2 wounds per attack - but the illustration is that the two weapons are fairly equal. Yes the sword will be slightly better a majority of times but on average - take what you like from fluff/model point of view and it will affect your gaming once in a blue moon.

[Agent of Chaos]

3 hours ago, misthv said:

Looking into alternative builds—anyone have any ideas on fun/semi-competitive lists w a Cabalist build? I’m not looking into doing a Gaunt spam (but I’d happily use the one I’ve got)! What have you guys played around with?

Many on here have suggested Cabalists might be our strongest build but its a tough nut to crack. I watched a battle report last night; Slaves (Ravagers) vs Gloomspite and saw the power of the Darkfire Daemonrift. Even if your opponent doesnt have wizards and/or isnt throwing endless spells, if you throw enough of your own endless spells out there along with a few of your own wizards then the Daemonrift can be ridiculous. With this in mind I had a stab at a Cabalist list using the Fatesworn Warband, giving me another spell with decent range and making the army 2 drops. I've got 5 endless spells in there and the sorcerer general has the trait to make the casting ritual succeed on 2+ (I imagine the marauders will be the sacrificial unit). The army lacks melee power but will hopefully make up for it with a deluge of mortal wounds from endless spells. It also aims to frustrate the opponent's movement with things like Be'lakor, Binding Damnation & Realmscourge Rupture, not to mention a screen of endless spells to get through.  Mark of Tzeentch will help my units survive any endless spells that get turned back against me.  

No idea what artifacts would be good for this list. None of the Cabalist ones were particularly appetizing except maybe the auto unbind one.  Not sold on the battalion but I do think this army wants to go first and get all its endless spells out early- or is it better to let the opponent come to you and then smash em with spells, maybe even get the double turn (obviously no good against alpha striking armies). Dropping the battalion allows another caster and maybe a unit of cultists for sacrificing. Thoughts?

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Cabalists

Leaders
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- General
- Command Trait: Mighty Ritualist
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Binding Damnation
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Ruinous Vigour
Be'Lakor (240)
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Command Trait: Mighty Ritualist
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos

Battleline
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
15 x Chaos Warriors (300)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Flails
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Flails
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

Battalions
Fatesworn Warband (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Darkfire Daemonrift (50)
Realmscourge Rupture (60)
Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (30)
Prismatic Palisade (30)
The Burning Head (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

[Gistradagis]

1 hour ago, NJohansson said:

An average of 2 wounds per attack - but the illustration is that the two weapons are fairly equal. Yes the sword will be slightly better a majority of times but on average - take what you like from fluff/model point of view and it will affect your gaming once in a blue moon.

Honestly, if I have to run him with a sword, it'll probably be to do the hero-hunting strat with Sword of Judgement, which is a list I'm considering. It might be a bit suicidal since he'd be my general, and I'd be giving him an aggressive artefact, but that would give him the chance to make enemy heroes explode. Plus, I can always wait to engage the enemy mainline before going kamikaze.

[Praecautus]

7 hours ago, Gistradagis said:

Honestly, if I have to run him with a sword, it'll probably be to do the hero-hunting strat with Sword of Judgement, which is a list I'm considering. It might be a bit suicidal since he'd be my general, and I'd be giving him an aggressive artefact, but that would give him the chance to make enemy heroes explode. Plus, I can always wait to engage the enemy mainline before going kamikaze.

I do a similar tactic in a mortal blades of Khorne. The  Daemon prince general w blade is very useful for many reasons

Khorne prince naturally messes up run and charge, great for the first couple of turns to support board control.

He can not be ignored, I have found my opponent will dedicate a lot of resources to stop and take him out. Usually more than his points value. That makes it easier for the rest of the army to have a numerical advantage for a turn or two.

If he is ignored, then my opponent will almost certainly lose something important. And then try to take him out.

In slaves there is a spell which allows the target to reroll all hits. Casting value is 5 I think (away from books right now) and target does not have to be mortal. This synergises really well w blade as you can fish for the 5+s for the MW. It also gives you a counter to any reroll abilities your opponent has. You do have to be within 12 inch. But a spell like that has a lot of utility for front line troops in addition to the prince.

Personally o think sword is better than axe for this as you get to swing the blade more often.

[PainfullyMediocre]

10 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Many on here have suggested Cabalists might be our strongest build but its a tough nut to crack. I watched a battle report last night; Slaves (Ravagers) vs Gloomspite and saw the power of the Darkfire Daemonrift. Even if your opponent doesnt have wizards and/or isnt throwing endless spells, if you throw enough of your own endless spells out there along with a few of your own wizards then the Daemonrift can be ridiculous. With this in mind I had a stab at a Cabalist list using the Fatesworn Warband, giving me another spell with decent range and making the army 2 drops. I've got 5 endless spells in there and the sorcerer general has the trait to make the casting ritual succeed on 2+ (I imagine the marauders will be the sacrificial unit). The army lacks melee power but will hopefully make up for it with a deluge of mortal wounds from endless spells. It also aims to frustrate the opponent's movement with things like Be'lakor, Binding Damnation & Realmscourge Rupture, not to mention a screen of endless spells to get through.  Mark of Tzeentch will help my units survive any endless spells that get turned back against me.  

No idea what artifacts would be good for this list. None of the Cabalist ones were particularly appetizing except maybe the auto unbind one.  Not sold on the battalion but I do think this army wants to go first and get all its endless spells out early- or is it better to let the opponent come to you and then smash em with spells, maybe even get the double turn (obviously no good against alpha striking armies). Dropping the battalion allows another caster and maybe a unit of cultists for sacrificing. Thoughts?

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Cabalists

Leaders
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- General
- Command Trait: Mighty Ritualist
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Binding Damnation
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Ruinous Vigour
Be'Lakor (240)
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Command Trait: Mighty Ritualist
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos

Battleline
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
15 x Chaos Warriors (300)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Flails
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Flails
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

Battalions
Fatesworn Warband (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Darkfire Daemonrift (50)
Realmscourge Rupture (60)
Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (30)
Prismatic Palisade (30)
The Burning Head (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

Have you considered dropping one unit of Horsemen for the Snake Warband? You do d3 mortal wounds, but the unit summons a snake once per turn so you can sustain it a bit longer.

[Holy_Diver]

Why complain so much, when you can a have 6 varanguard that can be the general of your army (so double aura buff), that can obliterate things, that can pile in multiple times 6 inches and stop enemy units to retreat? And if it's not enough for a merely CP they can remove enemy models from an objective on 3+.

 

[PainfullyMediocre]

1 hour ago, Holy_Diver said:

Why complain so much, when you can a have 6 varanguard that can be the general of your army (so double aura buff), that can obliterate things, that can pile in multiple times 6 inches and stop enemy units to retreat? And if it's not enough for a merely CP they can remove enemy models from an objective on 3+.

 

Is this Fist of the Everchosen? I've got 9 Varanguard, but that list needs an FAQ damn fast I hope they actually let you have a Varanguard as a general and if you get to use Slaves to Darkness alleigance traits as well.

 

edit: FAQ went up, problem  solved!

 

I was thinking of this:

 

Knights of the Empty Throne:

 

3 Varanguard: General, Ensorcelled Weapons, Wall of Cursed Iron, MoS

3 Varanguard: Ensorcelled Weapons, Grasping Plate, MoS

3 Varanguard: Ensorcelled Weapons, Corrupted Nullstone, MoS

Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore: MoS, Whispers of Chaos

5 Chaos Knights: MoS, Ensorcelled Weapons

5 Chaos Knights: MoS, Ensorcelled Weapons

5 Marauder Horsemen: Javelins, MoS

9 Untamed Beasts

9 Untamed Beasts

Pleasurebound Warband

 

=1910 points.  3 Drops, screen with the beasts, second screen of Javelin Marauder Horsemen. Bubble up for spell protection, run forwards as fast as possible, charge with the Marauder Horsemen, keep the Varanguard 4" away. Marauders die, everything piles in 6" apart from one unit of Varanguard that gets a 9" pile in.

 

I figure thats enough potential to go through screens and get to the sweet stuff inside. Also I own everything for this aside from the Untamed Beasts.

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by PainfullyMediocre

[Snakeb1te]

1 hour ago, PainfullyMediocre said:

Is this Fist of the Everchosen? I've got 9 Varanguard, but that list needs an FAQ damn fast I hope they actually let you have a Varanguard as a general and if you get to use Slaves to Darkness alleigance traits as well.

 

edit: FAQ went up, problem  solved!

 

I was thinking of this:

 

Knights of the Empty Throne:

 

3 Varanguard: General, Ensorcelled Weapons, Wall of Cursed Iron, MoS

3 Varanguard: Ensorcelled Weapons, Grasping Plate, MoS

3 Varanguard: Ensorcelled Weapons, Corrupted Nullstone, MoS

Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore: MoS, Whispers of Chaos

5 Chaos Knights: MoS, Ensorcelled Weapons

5 Chaos Knights: MoS, Ensorcelled Weapons

5 Marauder Horsemen: Javelins, MoS

9 Untamed Beasts

9 Untamed Beasts

Pleasurebound Warband

 

=1910 points.  3 Drops, screen with the beasts, second screen of Javelin Marauder Horsemen. Bubble up for spell protection, run forwards as fast as possible, charge with the Marauder Horsemen, keep the Varanguard 4" away. Marauders die, everything piles in 6" apart from one unit of Varanguard that gets a 9" pile in.

 

I figure thats enough potential to go through screens and get to the sweet stuff inside. Also I own everything for this aside from the Untamed Beasts.

 

Wait wait - so the FAQ means we're finally getting to use the three S2D allegiances as a of our book at last?

How did you get three artifacts - shouldn't you only have two?

Does the whole unit of Varanguard make use of the artifacts?

 

Also that is a very very cool thematic list. Making use of the Untamed beasts for early game screening is something Rob has been harping on about for ages now. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Snakeb1te

[PainfullyMediocre]

10 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

Wait wait - so the FAQ means we're finally getting to use the three S2D allegiances as a of our book at last?

How did you get three artifacts - shouldn't you only have two?

Does the whole unit of Varanguard make use of the artifacts?

 

Also that is a very very cool thematic list. Making use of the Untamed beasts for early game screening is something Rob has been harping on about for ages now. 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/c7769110.pdf

The Varanguard list is just a Damned Legion now, not its own army :O. There are two artefacts and one command ability in the list. No idea about the artefacts, it raises other questions. Do 3 Varanguard all become Spawn/Daemon Princes/summon 10 Daemons each?

 

Thanks, I love the idea of a hyper elite army that just does some facepunching.

Edited March 3, 2020 by PainfullyMediocre

[Snakeb1te]

3 minutes ago, PainfullyMediocre said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/c7769110.pdf

The Varanguard list is just a Damned Legion now, not its own army :O. There are two artefacts and one command ability in the list. No idea about the artefacts, it raises other questions. Do 3 Varanguard all become Spawn/Daemon Princes/summon 10 Daemons each?

 

Thanks, I love the idea of a hyper elite army that just does some facepunching.

So Legion of Chaos Ascendant, and Legion of the First Prince - are both separate allegiances to S2D.

Only Knights of the Empty Throne are a sub-allegiance of the overall S2D then?

[PainfullyMediocre]

5 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

So Legion of Chaos Ascendant, and Legion of the First Prince - are both separate allegiances to S2D.

Only Knights of the Empty Throne are a sub-allegiance of the overall S2D then?

Yeah it looks like they're their own army.

[Holy_Diver]

51 minutes ago, PainfullyMediocre said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/c7769110.pdf

The Varanguard list is just a Damned Legion now, not its own army :O. There are two artefacts and one command ability in the list. No idea about the artefacts, it raises other questions. Do 3 Varanguard all become Spawn/Daemon Princes/summon 10 Daemons each?

 

Thanks, I love the idea of a hyper elite army that just does some facepunching.

BINGO!!

The other day I saw a list of the empty throne combined with the bloodmarked warband. Very terrifying in melee.

[PainfullyMediocre]

2 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

BINGO!!

The other day I saw a list of the empty throne combined with the bloodmarked warband. Very terrifying in melee.

Oh damn, I just read what that does. That looks brutal.

[themortalgod]

When StD first dropped I was initially on the Nurgle bandwagon but have since felt that while Nurgle is super tough, it has a complete lack of significant damage threats so I have been moving towards toying with the idea of Khorne/Nurgle build and was wondering what everyone thinks of it? (Yes I know that dropping the knights to spam more marauders is stronger but I don't particularly want to run a horde army and I love my knight models)

Despoilers

Daemon Prince - General, Khorne, Radiance of Dark Glory, Ethereal Amulet - 210pts

Daemon Prince - Nurgle - 210pts

Be'Lakor - Whispers of Chaos - 240pts

Chaos Sorcerer Lord - Nurgle, Mask of Darkness - 110pts

 

40 Chaos Marauders - Khorne, Axe/Shield - 300pts

10 Chaos Knights - Nurgle, Ensorcelled Weapons - 360pts

10 Chaos Knights - Khorne, Lances - 360pts

1 Chaos Warshrine - Nurgle - 170pts

Total: 1960pts.

Basically the idea is for the Khorne DP, Marauders, and Lance knights to make up a hammer that is (somewhat) protected from counter attacks thanks to the DP's command ability.

Meanwhile the Nurgle contingent (Shrine, Nurgle DP, Sorcerer, and Sword Knights) form a tarpit that can bog down threats and hold objectives.

I'm 50/50 on Be'lakor, his disruption ability is game altering, but beyond that he hits like a wet noodle and isn't a great caster so may feel like dead-weight in many matches.

 

[Midjithero]

11 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

When StD first dropped I was initially on the Nurgle bandwagon but have since felt that while Nurgle is super tough, it has a complete lack of significant damage threats so I have been moving towards toying with the idea of Khorne/Nurgle build and was wondering what everyone thinks of it? (Yes I know that dropping the knights to spam more marauders is stronger but I don't particularly want to run a horde army and I love my knight models)

Despoilers

Daemon Prince - General, Khorne, Radiance of Dark Glory, Ethereal Amulet - 210pts

Daemon Prince - Nurgle - 210pts

Be'Lakor - Whispers of Chaos - 240pts

Chaos Sorcerer Lord - Nurgle, Mask of Darkness - 110pts

 

40 Chaos Marauders - Khorne, Axe/Shield - 300pts

10 Chaos Knights - Nurgle, Ensorcelled Weapons - 360pts

10 Chaos Knights - Khorne, Lances - 360pts

1 Chaos Warshrine - Nurgle - 170pts

Total: 1960pts.

Basically the idea is for the Khorne DP, Marauders, and Lance knights to make up a hammer that is (somewhat) protected from counter attacks thanks to the DP's command ability.

Meanwhile the Nurgle contingent (Shrine, Nurgle DP, Sorcerer, and Sword Knights) form a tarpit that can bog down threats and hold objectives.

I'm 50/50 on Be'lakor, his disruption ability is game altering, but beyond that he hits like a wet noodle and isn't a great caster so may feel like dead-weight in many matches.

 

I think it’s math’d out that fully stacked Nurgle buffs outshine Khorne.  So I would just swap the general to Nurgle DP and the marauders to Nurgle.  Maybe drop one of the 10 knights to 5 knights and bring in the Daemonrift or Rupture spells and Iron Golems or Untamed Beasts for more shenanigans 
 

Otherwise, could be a fun FU list to your opponent.  

[themortalgod]

14 minutes ago, Midjithero said:

I think it’s math’d out that fully stacked Nurgle buffs outshine Khorne.  So I would just swap the general to Nurgle DP and the marauders to Nurgle.  Maybe drop one of the 10 knights to 5 knights and bring in the Daemonrift or Rupture spells and Iron Golems or Untamed Beasts for more shenanigans 
 

Otherwise, could be a fun FU list to your opponent.  

It depends on how much you buff. The Khorne aura from the general compared to the Nurgle one has Khorne ahead, but once you start adding in other buffs like this get a bit more muddled, though, I find being able to stack theoretical maximums on a real world game is fairly rare. I've been running the list as all Nurgle since launch but I find the unreliability of the Lances makes them super problematic with Nurgle.

(It is worth noting that the Nurgle aura is stronger on units with lots of low damage attacks where as the Khorne aura is stronger in situations of fewer high damage attacks)

That said, the biggest factor is I really want that Khorne DP command ability but feel pretty dirty running just a lone Khorne DP thematically speaking.  Regardless though, neither army has any true big threats. Marauders are probably our best threat as an army but we don't have anything that is truly scary. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by themortalgod

[Midjithero]

1 hour ago, themortalgod said:

It depends on how much you buff. The Khorne aura from the general compared to the Nurgle one has Khorne ahead, but once you start adding in other buffs like this get a bit more muddled, though, I find being able to stack theoretical maximums on a real world game is fairly rare. I've been running the list as all Nurgle since launch but I find the unreliability of the Lances makes them super problematic with Nurgle.

(It is worth noting that the Nurgle aura is stronger on units with lots of low damage attacks where as the Khorne aura is stronger in situations of fewer high damage attacks)

That said, the biggest factor is I really want that Khorne DP command ability but feel pretty dirty running just a lone Khorne DP thematically speaking.  Regardless though, neither army has any true big threats. Marauders are probably our best threat as an army but we don't have anything that is truly scary. 

Khorne DP CA is like Slaanesh in a brothel...ITS SO GUD, nom nom nom!!  I keep trying to find a way to add a Khorne DP to my list for his Ca alone and can’t   makes me sad panda 

[themortalgod]

2 minutes ago, Midjithero said:

Khorne DP CA is like Slaanesh in a brothel...ITS SO GUD, nom nom nom!!  I keep trying to find a way to add a Khorne DP to my list for his Ca alone and can’t   makes me sad panda 

Yeah, like, really, its the most un-thematic Khorne CA ever created, but it is sooooo good. It really should have the Tzeentch CA imo. 

[misthv]

On 3/2/2020 at 11:36 PM, Agent of Chaos said:

Many on here have suggested Cabalists might be our strongest build but its a tough nut to crack. I watched a battle report last night; Slaves (Ravagers) vs Gloomspite and saw the power of the Darkfire Daemonrift. Even if your opponent doesnt have wizards and/or isnt throwing endless spells, if you throw enough of your own endless spells out there along with a few of your own wizards then the Daemonrift can be ridiculous. With this in mind I had a stab at a Cabalist list using the Fatesworn Warband, giving me another spell with decent range and making the army 2 drops. I've got 5 endless spells in there and the sorcerer general has the trait to make the casting ritual succeed on 2+ (I imagine the marauders will be the sacrificial unit). The army lacks melee power but will hopefully make up for it with a deluge of mortal wounds from endless spells. It also aims to frustrate the opponent's movement with things like Be'lakor, Binding Damnation & Realmscourge Rupture, not to mention a screen of endless spells to get through.  Mark of Tzeentch will help my units survive any endless spells that get turned back against me.  

No idea what artifacts would be good for this list. None of the Cabalist ones were particularly appetizing except maybe the auto unbind one.  Not sold on the battalion but I do think this army wants to go first and get all its endless spells out early- or is it better to let the opponent come to you and then smash em with spells, maybe even get the double turn (obviously no good against alpha striking armies). Dropping the battalion allows another caster and maybe a unit of cultists for sacrificing. Thoughts?

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Cabalists

Leaders
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- General
- Command Trait: Mighty Ritualist
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Binding Damnation
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Ruinous Vigour
Be'Lakor (240)
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Command Trait: Mighty Ritualist
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos

Battleline
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
15 x Chaos Warriors (300)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Flails
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Flails
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

Battalions
Fatesworn Warband (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Darkfire Daemonrift (50)
Realmscourge Rupture (60)
Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (30)
Prismatic Palisade (30)
The Burning Head (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

Thanks—many interesting ideas. Endless spell board control seems to be a thing, and I quite like the synergy w the Daemonrift. I’ve been trying to include even more MW generating spells (e.g. purple sun). Also,  building the army on paper I’ve been trying to include a Gaunt summoner (2 spells is nice). In rgd to battleline choices I’ve been less focused on MSU. I guess it’s a matter of taste and available models not sure what is better, and ofc having to fill out Fatesworn or not... Maybe, especially including two Sorc Lords I would have gone for larger units since they really like large units to buff. Must admit I have not tried building this from a Fatesworn, but agree w you importance of going first. I think it goes well w a Gaunt that you really don’t want to lose before summoning a horror unit. Maybe I would add an additional unit of marauders to keep one as screen while the other gets Mask of Darkness 🙂 Look forward to if someone manages to build a semi-competitive build w/o finding anything apparently broken. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by misthv