AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Graftonianman]

45 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Ooh is that Despoiler or Ravager?

You’d need to run despoilers for the helm. It makes him always strike first on a charge. 
 

fun note, chariots get +1 to hit for the unit champion, khorne gets +1 to wound around the general. Not bad!

[Skavelynn]

I'm thinking about playing something like this. I think marauders are the real winners of this battletome, with Archaon's command ability, the teleporting spell, and all the tasty reroll buffs they have access to. Varanguard in sixth circle are very killy on the charge, especially if you give them slaanesh mark and a reroll buff. I might replace them with something else though

Host of The Everchosen

Sixth Circle

Archaon (800) General - Slaanesh Aura

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110) 

40x Marauders (300) Axes

40x Marauders (300) Axes

3x Varanguard (300) Ensorcelled Weapon

Chaos War Shrine (170)

[Asamu]

6 hours ago, Graftonianman said:

New chaos stuff says “a unit [has] models, each armed...“ This is the first instance of a warscroll being worded this way. Dragon Ogors and tzaangors which allow a mix say, “...each model is armed...” Other units, such as liberators, state specific numbers of models that may be armed with special options. 

Although it can be interpreted either way, prior to this new book, you couldn’t mix armament nor does the wording in the rest of the warscroll support mixed armament. Until GW releases a FAQ, I will assume that you can’t mix. 

Varanguard, which are using the exact same wording, could mix armaments before, and there are examples in the book and in the game played on the WHTV stream showing units running mixed equipment.

6 hours ago, zedatkinszed said:

In English this means all models in the unit are armed in the same way. 

No, it means you pick weapons per model. In that sentence, each is referring to models, not "A unit". There is no ambiguity in the sentence.

"A unit has any number of models, each armed with one of the following weapon options: Chaos Hand Weapon and Chaos Runeshield..." The only plural in the sentence that each could be applied to is "models", so it must be referring to "models".  

If the sentence said: "Units of Chaos warriors have any number of models, each armed with..." There would still be no ambiguity, because the syntax means "each" is referring to models - it cannot refer to "units". If the weapon options were then listed in plural forms, the sentence would be grammatically wrong.

In order to make "each" apply to "units", without removing the word "models" from its position, the sentence would need to be structured something like "Units of chaos warrior models are each..." - which is close to the standard sort of wording for units that cannot mix equipment.

 

The part that's weird is the runeshields rule, which, as currently worded, doesn't care whether an individual model has a runeshield. If more than 1 model in the unit has a runeshield, the unit is carrying runeshields, and all models get the benefit, but if 1 model that has a shield is remaining, it would not get the benefit of its shield. Obviously that needs some kind of errata, or a requirement that models with shields be removed first, because otherwise, the optimal unit set up is two hand weapons with 2 shield models, which you always remove last (maybe more halberds in particularly large units).

Edited December 15, 2019 by Asamu

[JonnyTheKing]

I’m still stuck on whether I should run my marauders in 20s or 40s, what do you guys think?

[Benkei]

Do you guys think running Chosen is decent now with all the rerolls?

[Grimrock]

23 minutes ago, JonnyTheKing said:

I’m still stuck on whether I should run my marauders in 20s or 40s, what do you guys think?

Depends on what you're planning really, 20 man units will work for screening and quick alpha strikes but 40 man units have some staying power while also needing hero babysitting for inspiring presence. They take targeted buffs better and they have the numbers to take a hit and still have their bonuses. I'm planning on 40s personally.

[Skavelynn]

56 minutes ago, JonnyTheKing said:

I’m still stuck on whether I should run my marauders in 20s or 40s, what do you guys think?

40s most of the time. There's not many reasons to take units of 20, if you want screening take iron golems instead. 40s are better for buffing and will last longer, gain nice bonuses from their warscroll, and have higher bravery (this army struggles with battleshock and cp generation without archaon, and you'll often wanna be using other CA and buffs over inspiring presence and battleshock immunities)

31 minutes ago, Benkei said:

Do you guys think running Chosen is decent now with all the rerolls?

They're not awful, but you have to think "Why use these over marauders? Why buff these instead my other units?". I think nurgle chosen could be fun with all the on hit rolls of 6 abilities nurgle mark can get. I wish they were 20 points cheaper, because they do look cool 😣

[Mcthew]

1 hour ago, Asamu said:

 The part that's weird is the runeshields rule, which, as currently worded, doesn't care whether an individual model has a runeshield. If more than 1 model in the unit has a runeshield, the unit is carrying runeshields, and all models get the benefit, but if 1 model that has a shield is remaining, it would not get the benefit of its shield. Obviously that needs some kind of errata, or a requirement that models with shields be removed first, because otherwise, the optimal unit set up is two hand weapons with 2 shield models, which you always remove last (maybe more halberds in particularly large units).

As you say it's odd. Either this is badly worded or the choice to run mixed units is wrong. They're incompatible rules. 

FAQ here we come!

(Seriously, GW are the Apple of tabletop games! So many bugs and so many updates, but the stuff sure is pretty!)

[Asamu]

15 minutes ago, Mcthew said:

As you say it's odd. Either this is badly worded or the choice to run mixed units is wrong. They're incompatible rules. 

FAQ here we come!

(Seriously, GW are the Apple of tabletop games! So many bugs and so many updates, but the stuff sure is pretty!)

Actually, the shield rule is poorly worded either way. Even if you can't run mixed units, once there's 1 model left with a shield, it stops working by RAW, because the rule as written requires more than 1 shield to be carried by the unit to get the effect... That's obviously not the intention, but it's how it's currently written.

[Sinfullyvannila]

36 minutes ago, Mcthew said:

As you say it's odd. Either this is badly worded or the choice to run mixed units is wrong. They're incompatible rules. 

FAQ here we come!

(Seriously, GW are the Apple of tabletop games! So many bugs and so many updates, but the stuff sure is pretty!)

I honestly don’t see any problem with it only working on units with 2 or more models with shields. That’s honestly a better rule than how Tzaangors work(where it’s just 1 model you need). The wording is compatible, it’s just a rule you aren’t comfortable with.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Sinfullyvannila

[Hannibal]

2 hours ago, Graftonianman said:

fun note, chariots get +1 to hit for the unit champion, khorne gets +1 to wound around the general. Not bad!

In addition: have a look at the Bloodstoker warscroll! As I read it, it also buffs the steeds...

[BrocknerTheBear]

@JonnyTheKing I've been thinking of a fun casual list of

Lord on karkadrak

2x knights 

2x chariots 

Ruinbringer warband

990 - single drop and nice theme

[Gibs]

Khorne

 Re-roll hit rolls of 1 and +1 to wound if its the generals aura

Bloodmarked Warband

If a hero slays a single model you can pick a unit within 12" to gain +1 attack.

Khorne DP

Mess with opponents charges and give your units LoS when close to terrain and has a bigger bubble

Helm of Many Eyes

Ensures you get to attack first

Allied

Bloodsecrator (Blades of Khorne)

+1 attack for Khorne melee weapons within 16" aura

Bloodstoker (Blades of Khorne)

Re-roll wounds and +3 charge (must be within 8" to use ability)

 

That is a serious amount of damage potential if you can set it up well on a large unit! Marauders are a good pick but even a large unit of Chaos Warriors with duel hand weapons in the front and Halberds in the back would punch a hole through almost anything!

Edited December 16, 2019 by Gibs

[Smooth criminal]

17 hours ago, Seraphina of the Seraphim said:

It seems Nurgle and/or Khorne are the standouts for the book, but as a mainly narrative player(who has no idea how math hammer or tactics work) Is there anyway to make a viable Undivided list? Doesn't need to be all Undivided, just a bulk of it. Thanks in advance! 

Personally I think undivided is the strongest mark because of the ignore battleshock effect that saves you CPs to spam your abilities.

If you ever played against rats you how strong ignore battleshock+death frenzy+lots of bodies is.

[The World Tree]

9 minutes ago, Smooth criminal said:

Personally I think undivided is the strongest mark because of the ignore battleshock effect that saves you CPs to spam your abilities.

If you ever played against rats you how strong ignore battleshock+death frenzy+lots of bodies is.

Agreed, except with Archaon as general. Which annoys me as I wanted to stay undivided. Nevertheless, the great thing is there aare so any options that seem useful.

[Smooth criminal]

6 hours ago, Filie said:

What weapons do you guys think are the best on Chaos Knights?

The swords seem superior if the combat lasts more than one round, but i'm unsure if I should be planning for longer engagements with the knights. I'm also curious if  the flail is worth it.

Ensorcelled for me. I'll take an all-purpouse unit over a unit with terrible output without charge.

Flail is interesting because it allows the champion to snipe characters with 2" range. Not sure which setup is good for it, the default statline surely isn't. It will need a rend or +damage from somewhere.

[Kirjava13]

Taken the dive and picked up the Start Collecting. Any advice on how I should arm my Chaos lads vis-a-vis attacks vs rend vs damage etc? I haven't been able to look at the battletome yet, probably won't for the immediate future.

[Smooth criminal]

8 hours ago, The Cranky Dwarf said:

What is people's read on chaos chosen? To me they seem like marginally better warriors. Am I missing something?

Consider them a buffer unit that gives out rerolls because you can't sorc buff everyone.

[Patriarch]

I'm looking to build a pure everchosen liste.  Archaon,3x3 varanguards, 1 guant summoner and maybe 1 endless spell.  What cercle would be better?  +1 dmg or "fly" to counter tarpit units?

[Gibs]

40 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Taken the dive and picked up the Start Collecting. Any advice on how I should arm my Chaos lads vis-a-vis attacks vs rend vs damage etc? I haven't been able to look at the battletome yet, probably won't for the immediate future.

We all got the book only a few days ago and are in the same boat haha

If you accept the fact you can mix and match weapons the optimal setups probably won't be cracked for sometime yet.

Chaos Knights my gut feeling is lances because you should be able to land your charges and if you are not why take knights? Its also unlikely many players will be creating Deathstar units with them so prolonged combats are not the goal for these lads. The models should be big enough that you can magnetize weapons though, that way you don't have to make a guess?

Chaos Warriors on the other-hand all comes down to the optimal unit size. If you are running 10 or fewer models then a few with Shields and the rest with duel hand-weapons feels best. When you start getting to 15+ then mixing in Halberds become relevant as the 2" range means everyone is probably getting a swing in.

Most people haven't even played the army yet so take all advice including mine with a bucket of salt 😝

Edited December 16, 2019 by Gibs

[Skavelynn]

18 minutes ago, Patriarch said:

I'm looking to build a pure everchosen liste.  Archaon,3x3 varanguards, 1 guant summoner and maybe 1 endless spell.  What cercle would be better?  +1 dmg or "fly" to counter tarpit units?

+1 damage for sure. Your varanguard will honestly be cutting down anything they charge in the first place with that. You could also use the overlords of chaos battalion which gets you both of those circles, if you'd like. 

[AverageBoss]

6 hours ago, Asamu said:

The part that's weird is the runeshields rule, which, as currently worded, doesn't care whether an individual model has a runeshield. If more than 1 model in the unit has a runeshield, the unit is carrying runeshields, and all models get the benefit, but if 1 model that has a shield is remaining, it would not get the benefit of its shield. Obviously that needs some kind of errata, or a requirement that models with shields be removed first, because otherwise, the optimal unit set up is two hand weapons with 2 shield models, which you always remove last (maybe more halberds in particularly large units).

At least on the shield affecting a whole unit, and not actually needing to be removed to use its effects, this is nothing new. Liberators have worked like that since launch, and Sequitors work like that now. Tzaangors began working like that when BoC changed their warscroll.

[Sinfullyvannila]

1 hour ago, Gibs said:

We all got the book only a few days ago and are in the same boat haha

If you accept the fact you can mix and match weapons the optimal setups probably won't be cracked for sometime yet.

Chaos Knights my gut feeling is lances because you should be able to land your charges and if you are not why take knights? Its also unlikely many players will be creating Deathstar units with them so prolonged combats are not the goal for these lads. The models should be big enough that you can magnetize weapons though, that way you don't have to make a guess?

Chaos Warriors on the other-hand all comes down to the optimal unit size. If you are running 10 or fewer models then a few with Shields and the rest with duel hand-weapons feels best. When you start getting to 15+ then mixing in Halberds become relevant as the 2" range means everyone is probably getting a swing in.

Most people haven't even played the army yet so take all advice including mine with a bucket of salt 😝

It depends on what else you’re putting in your army and what you’re doing with them.

10 Chaos Knights with lances and a Khorne General or Slaanesh leader should be able to delete Heroes and MSUs <20 wounds; but Ensorcled weapons will perform better against massive groups. Both are legitimate uses; I’d be inclined to use lances as well since I’m probably always going to be using Winds of Chaos or Mask of Darkness along with them.

 

Chaos Warriors dual wielding is better up until you start buffing Great Weapons to reroll all hits. An MSU of Warriors with hand weapons and shields is a decent option for battleline tax too; especially considering the points expense in this faction.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Sinfullyvannila

[Seraphina of the Seraphim]

How's this Undivided based list?

RAVAGERS(2490) 
1 CP
Heroes:
Lord on Kardadrak(250)
-Chaos Undivided
-Ruinbringer Warband
-Flames of Spite
-Sword of Judgements(Ulgu) 
Chaos Sorcerer Lord(110)
-Chaos Undivided
-Bolstered by Hate
Chaos Sorcerer Lord(110)
-Chaos Undivided
-Unquestioned Resolve
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore(260)
-Chaos Undivided
-Master of Deception
Darkoath Warqueen(90)
-Chaos Undivided
-Favoured of the Pantheon
-Mark of the High Favoured
Darkoath Chieftain(90)
-Chaos Undivided
-Eternal Vendetta
Battleline:
40x Marauders(300)
-Chaos Undivided 
40x Marauders(300)
-Chaos Undivided 
20x Marauder Horsemen(360)
-Chaos Undivided
-Ruinbringer Warband
5x Chaos Knights(180)
-Chaos Undivided 
-Ruinbringer Warband
5x Chaos Knights(180)
-Chaos Undivided 
-Ruinbringer Warband
1x Chaos Chariot(120) 
-Chaos Undivided
-Ruinbringer Warband
Battalions:
Ruinbringer Warband(140)

 

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Seraphina of the Seraphim

[Charleston]

10 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Why the Lord on Manticore? Isnt it arguably the worst option now?

Well, while building the list I felt that the offensive Output seemed quite okay, especially within the generals aura. Also, the Lord on Manticore has the "StD Mortal" Keyword, which qualifies him to fight twice, and the "Monster" Keyword to benefit from Despoilers-Rules. Well, in the End it wasn´t close to beeing worth the 280 pts, therefore my plan to switch him for the 20pts cheaper Wizard on Manticore for fututre games.

9 hours ago, PALFORLIFE said:

Can I ask what or how you played the grinder? To me it's easily one of the best units in the book? Mark of Khorne and make sure it's in the aura for melee profit? 

Hi, for sure! Played him with the Mark of Khorne and Daemonbone talon. I wasn´t able to place him within the 18" bubble of the general, but he got the normal Aura of Khorne. In the End he felt underwhelming due to the low hit value which I didn´t found a way to improve it. Khorne Aura is great as he wounds on a 2+, but while hitting on 4+ with a rerollable 1 there is a lot of attacks missing. His point value enforces a direct comparsion with Deamon Princes, which are insane as their Output is great, who fight first, don´t get lower with decreasing stats and have neat CA´s. Althrough the Grinder has still some nice shooting output, the 4+ save  with 16 wounds is not bad, especially when supported by Oracular Visions. Also, this thing is fast! Maybe another thing is, that he didn´t shine in terms of damage in this game, as he had to attack OBR stuff and wasn´t able to kill even one of thoose battleline-riders.

I see still use for him, but I belive that he profits more from Khorne Alligience as there are more nice buffs for him.