AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[JackStreicher]

37 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

To be honest though - any of the cultist units and Darkoath themes do not appear to be terribly competitive, as they completely miss out on the allegiance auras and Warshrine buffs, which are most of the army's allegiance.

I don‘t get it: why don‘t they all simply have the undivided mark?

as fun as this army is to play there‘re so many design decisions that (imo) make no sense and are a bummer if you recognize them. 
I hate having cool models that perform like a wet noodle that cost as much as a gold nugget.
 

anyway I‘ll just try hard to play every unit I like in a way that  might make it useful ^^

 

edit:

- Daemon princes (of Tzeentch) can‘t be Wizards

- Knights suffering from the rubber lance Syndrom and a „low“ armour save.

- Warriors being bland objective sitters

- Cultist Heroes and Units having no interaction whatsoever with the central rule of the Battletome (marks)

- badly needed model updates that did not happen

- generally overcosted „armoured“ units.

- Circleless Varanguard if they‘re used in a sub faction other than HotEc 

- The requirement of having a hero nearby so a mark OF A GOD has any effect.

Edited February 18, 2020 by JackStreicher

[Ravinsild]

30 minutes ago, readercolin said:

Chosen are... ok.  The biggest problem is that they are resin models and cost $45 for 5 of them, so they would have to be REALLY good to make that worth it for most people.  If they get a re-sculpt, I would expect to see a good bit more of them.  For 40 more points, you get about double the damage output as the same number of warriors against a save of -, and 3 times the damage output against a save of 4+, which makes them a lot killier than warriors are.  However, they have the same number of wounds, and they don't get a re-rollable save without a sorcerer nearby.  The other problem is that for 10 more points, you could instead run a block of 20 marauders which are going to deal about 50% more damage than they are - if you can get them all in range.  You might be noticing a trend here - marauders are just the best units to take in almost any situation.

Lord on Manticore is decent.  If you need a giant flying beatstick, well, he's a giant flying beatstick.  His command ability is utterly worthless however.  If you run a lance and blade, he is probably the strongest single unit that slaves have offensively (especially if you can get the charge off), while giving him a shield gives him a 5+ vs mortal wounds that helps against opposing sniping.  However, he has some solid competition in the Lord on Karkadrak, which does only a little less damage, but has a much better command ability, and more importantly, can't get bracketed by taking some damage.  The end result though is to go for whichever looks cooler to you unless you have a very specific build in mind.

As for going for more of a marauder build and being savage vikings - probably the best build in the book.  Marauders are probably the best unit in the book, and having a front line of them, maybe with a block of Chaos Knights to back them up is enough to take you pretty far.  Daemon Princes are also great units, especially in Despoilers lists.  However, the Darkoath Chieftain's, Warqueens, and the various cultist units have 1 major problem - they can't take marks.  If you read up above, you can see that the khorne mark with a general nearby can boost the damage of a block of knights by 50% without any other buffs.  Being unable to carry or benefit from these marks is a major blow to these model's playability.  

Was it a design oversight to just not have the Darkoath stuff and the Warcry stuff not interact with the rest of the army? 

Also are Chaos Trolls and Giants a thing anymore or is that just Total War: Warhammer? 

Seems like the beasts got mostly moved to beasts of chaos, the stand-alone manticores, and dragons (?) etc, and I'm not sure what happened to Trolls and Giants. Exalted Heroes also seem to be still resin, and I'm not sure if they've been catered to....same with Dragon Ogres if they're even still around?

For the most part I would do lines of chosen to hold, chaos knights and gorebeast chariots to flank with hellcannons for support and 1 sorcerer and my main hero (Archaon) but a lot of this stuff seems to be gone. 

I was hoping the bread and butter chaos warriors and knights was at least a thing though. I wonder what they plan on doing with chaos....so much still seems to be Resin and I'm worried it might get discontinued/deleted from the game

 

[deumosd]

Well I think I have been inspired to do a StD army- after reading here and loving some of the models.

Entered my first 2000pt tournament, at last been wanting to for 2years now. 
I am thinking of the following list.

Hopefully I might pull at least one win out the bag.

Host of the everchosen 6th circle

All marked Nurgle:

Archeon

Chaos sorcerer lord

Chaos warshrine

Varanguard x3

Varanguard x3

20x chaos marauders 

10x splinter fang

10x splinter fang

i know I should probably take 40x marauders but love the splinter fang models and am hoping I can have a few different units chasing objectives etc.

[PiotrW]

Hm. I think it's weak that the Darkoath people and the Warcry weirdos cannot take Marks... they are the most colourful units, IMHO.

Kind of makes me think StD aren't as interesting army as I hoped...

[Eldarain]

At the very least they should have undivided. Completely not interacting with the core allegiance ability is terrible.

[PiotrW]

I guess I'll be skipping on StD, then... unless there's a way of building a workable, sensible army around Darkoaths, Warcriers and the recently-released beasties (Fomoroid etc.)?

 

[Eldarain]

Ravagers built around Ruinbringer with 5man Knights and Chariots with a 32 strong Iron Golems Screen and additional Cultists/Maurauders being summoned in is my plan.

There is a really good Command Trait for getting extra mileage out of the Cultists.

[JackStreicher]

24 minutes ago, Eldarain said:

There is a really good Command Trait for getting extra mileage out of the Cultists.

My issue with cultists is that they focus too much on their sacrifice mechanic: wasting CTs for it etc. while it misses the point: we need more wizards with 2+ spellcasts. There‘s also no way to make a non mage a mage (you can only make them „unbinders“). Additionally the way I understand the endless spell movement mechanic you can‘t use it the turn you summon an endless spell since it happens at the start of the herophase. - honestly, WHY. So many cool ideas and then they don‘t build upon them at all. 
 

I get a similar feeling with Archaon and his Mark mess: 

why didn‘t they just make himself never benefit from any mark BUT always radiating every chaos mark? Now he has to awkwardly pick one while forgetting his other marks?

Daemon prince: it feels like these were meant to be wizards (points wise etc.) and then the designers thought „mhm who‘d ever pick a sorcerer now?“ so they Gave the sorcerer his awesome ability but forgot to add the wizard rules to DPs?

maybe it‘s just me but the book feels rushed?

Edited February 18, 2020 by JackStreicher

[NJohansson]

5 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

My issue with cultists is that they focus too much on their sacrifice mechanic: wasting CTs for it etc. while it misses the point: we need more wizards with 2+ spellcasts. There‘s also no way to make a non mage a mage (you can only make them „unbinders“). Additionally the way I understand the endless spell movement mechanic you can‘t use it the turn you summon an endless spell since it happens at the start of the herophase. - honestly, WHY. So many cool ideas and then they don‘t build upon them at all. 

You can actually build a strong cult army if you want lots of magic - 1-2 Gaunts, Be’lakor, Sorcerer Lord - the blue scribes. Easily 8+ spells a turn with +1-3 to cast. With the addition of endless spells you will really have a strong magic phase. 
 

Also - most predatory endless spells clearly state that you are allowed to move them upon summoning.

[JackStreicher]

5 minutes ago, NJohansson said:

Also - most predatory endless spells clearly state that you are allowed to move them upon summoning.

That‘s not the issue. Cabalists can move an endless Spell if the ritual succeeded at THE BEGINNING of the hero phase, that is BEFORE you have summoned any spells. You‘d really bank on a double turn for that to be useful.

yeah Gaunt summoner Spam is always good, yet S2D should not require gaunts  everytime if they want to cast...

Edited February 18, 2020 by JackStreicher

[NJohansson]

4 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

That‘s not the issue. Cabalists can move an endless Spell if the ritual succeeded at THE BEGINNING of the hero phase, that is BEFORE you have summoned any spells. You‘d really bank on a double turn for that to be useful.

yeah Gaunt summoner Spam is always good, yet S2D should not require gaunts  everytime if they want to cast...

AH - sorry even forgot that there were other rituals than the +d3 to cast. It is such a force multiplyer that it is a rare occasion that I would rather do something else.

As to casting - as said we definitely have other options, but since the gaunt is more or less just 40-60 points he is very hard to not take.

I actually find the cabal to be ok - it’s main problem is that if you want magic heavy you will most likely be better of going disciples of Tzeentch.

[Agent of Chaos]

Looking for advice on a Despoilers List I'm crafting; trying to maximise the benefits by taking 3 x DP (one being B'elakor).

Theory is Belakor and 20 warriors hold an objective, hopefully the centre, and should be really hard to shift with reroll saves, 6+ shrug and battleshock immunity (and if anyone wants to target Belakor he has 4+ ethereal, 5++, 6++ and Look Out Sir, plus two potential ways to heal!). Any unit that comes close to him risks being made to fight last with -1 to wound rolls. The Mask of Darkness sorcerer will be nearby in case someone needs teleporting and to give Belakor reroll saves.

Prince with sword of judgement goes hero/monster hunting with a screen of marauder horsemen. Before charging in I'll hopefully get the Call to Glory spell off on him (having observed that Daemonic Power only works on Mortals, I now see the point of the Call to Glory spell). This DP is the hero from the Godsworn battalion so he might even get to fight in my hero phase.

The other Prince will be screened by the knights and are there to generally make a nuisance of themselves. Both khorne princes will be popping their command ability at every opportunity to really frustrate my opponent. 

Chaos Lord and the marauders will hang back as a second wave / counter strike. Decided to go Undivided mark with these guys as I figured battleshock immunity and potential 6+ shrug would be more useful then rerolling 1's to hit, especially since they will hopefully be fighting twice. 

I know the battalion is average but as Diabolic Mantle is my second artifact its essentially giving 2 CP, possibly 3 or 4 CP.  and takes me from 10+ drops to 6. 

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Despoilers
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Be'Lakor (240)
- General
- Spell: Binding Damnation
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Axe
- Artefact: Diabolic Mantle
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Sword
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Call to Glory
Chaos Lord (110)
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

Battleline
20 x Chaos Warriors (400)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

Battalions
Godsworn Champions of Ruin (180)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 125

[W1tchhunter]

2 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Looking for advice on a Despoilers List I'm crafting; trying to maximise the benefits by taking 3 x DP (one being B'elakor).

Theory is Belakor and 20 warriors hold an objective, hopefully the centre, and should be really hard to shift with reroll saves, 6+ shrug and battleshock immunity (and if anyone wants to target Belakor he has 4+ ethereal, 5++, 6++ and Look Out Sir, plus two potential ways to heal!). Any unit that comes close to him risks being made to fight last with -1 to wound rolls. The Mask of Darkness sorcerer will be nearby in case someone needs teleporting and to give Belakor reroll saves.

Prince with sword of judgement goes hero/monster hunting with a screen of marauder horsemen. Before charging in I'll hopefully get the Call to Glory spell off on him (having observed that Daemonic Power only works on Mortals, I now see the point of the Call to Glory spell). This DP is the hero from the Godsworn battalion so he might even get to fight in my hero phase.

The other Prince will be screened by the knights and are there to generally make a nuisance of themselves. Both khorne princes will be popping their command ability at every opportunity to really frustrate my opponent. 

Chaos Lord and the marauders will hang back as a second wave / counter strike. Decided to go Undivided mark with these guys as I figured battleshock immunity and potential 6+ shrug would be more useful then rerolling 1's to hit, especially since they will hopefully be fighting twice. 

I know the battalion is average but as Diabolic Mantle is my second artifact its essentially giving 2 CP, possibly 3 or 4 CP.  and takes me from 10+ drops to 6. 

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Despoilers
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Be'Lakor (240)
- General
- Spell: Binding Damnation
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Axe
- Artefact: Diabolic Mantle
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Sword
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
- Spell: Call to Glory
Chaos Lord (110)
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

Battleline
20 x Chaos Warriors (400)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

Battalions
Godsworn Champions of Ruin (180)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 125

This looks really fun you got all the models to use it?

Edited February 19, 2020 by W1tchhunter

[Agent of Chaos]

1 hour ago, W1tchhunter said:

This looks really fun you got all the models to use it?

I do, although B'elakor would be a proxy but I'm not going to a tournament so wont be an issue.

[Inquisitorsz]

4 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Snip

I'm also pretty interested in a Despoilers list. 
Mine is built around

Be'lakor,
Khorne Demon Prince 
Sorcerer Lord on a Manticore
Sorcerer Lord 

Some Chaos Warrior and Knights for battleline 

And then some other monsters to fill out the points. 
I've been toying with the idea of a War Mammoth because that's bloody funny.  
But otherwise also slaughterbrutes and a Spiranx or two.  

 

The heros listed above, 20 warriors, 10 knights, a Mammoth and a Sphiranx is 2000pts exactly. Not sure how competitive that would be but sounds fun. 

[Kurrilino]

6 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

I get a similar feeling with Archaon and his Mark mess: 

why didn‘t they just make himself never benefit from any mark BUT always radiating every chaos mark? Now he has to awkwardly pick one while forgetting his other marks?

 

Yeah uhmm.... the chosen of all gods. Or the Marauders are way better fighters than their ascended brothers, the Warriors of Chaos. Not to mention how the last half of the model range even landed in our book.

I strongly believe the people who wrote this mess of a book had no idea what or who the StD are.

If i wouldn't know better i would guess JJ Abrahms wrote this book.

Like the Star Trekk universe of peace, diplomacy and exploration turned into Star Ship Rampage at a war zone.

[Nasnad]

If they release new marauders on 32mm bases, how much would that hurt the marauder damage output?

It does seems odd that a unit of 20 marauders can output twice the damage of 10 warriors, for less points. And that is without any buffs

[Eldarain]

It is a possibility as the game moves on. I'm starting to wonder if the two ranks with 1" weapons is unintended.

Especially with them introducing the just large enough to eliminate it bases with the Warcry gangs.

[Nasnad]

hard to tell, but the downside to marauders is that they do die quickly, and for the big units, it might be hard to keep them all wholly within the aura and buff ranges.

[Nasnad]

Someone got a comparison of marauders, warcry, mantic northern alliance clanmen and frostgrave models? .. looking for some alternative, better looking, Marauders.

Right now I am doing all I can to avoid using them, but it is hurting my army a little

[Eldarain]

I got Clansmen as all my armies/table are Ice themed. Will get you some pics in the next day or two.

[Snakeb1te]

11 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

 Additionally the way I understand the endless spell movement mechanic you can‘t use it the turn you summon an endless spell since it happens at the start of the herophase. - honestly, WHY. So many cool ideas and then they don‘t build upon them at all. 

Can you clarify what you're referring to here?

Also I've just realised the Doom Sigil is almost completely pointless. Here's an example

• You summon it in your hero phase. 
• At the end of your turn, you allocate attacks to your units.
• You roll priority and elect to double-turn.
• "Lasts until that player's next hero phase" means all the attacks you got in the previous turn are instantly removed.

What the heck? That seems pretty damn pointless - and I REALLY wanted this spell to work as there are a number of units which could benefit from +1 attack.

[begleysm]

I'm thinking about using Bloodreavers on 25mm bases with Gor/Ungor shields for count as Marauders.

Edited February 19, 2020 by begleysm

[Nasnad]

Also really tempted by bloodreavers and Kairic acolytes. But might just wait and hope that we will get new models, and just not use marauders with StD(except horsemen ofc). 

Good thing that i only play casual with friends, so i think it will be okay without them

[PainfullyMediocre]

1 hour ago, Eldarain said:

I got Clansmen as all my armies/table are Ice themed. Will get you some pics in the next day or two.

I've got the same, they scale well next to Chaos Warriors and Knights. They'll get replaced with a heavily converted mix of Bloodreavers, Kairic Acolytes and Witch Aelves eventually.

 

What does everyone think of the Fist of the Everchosen army? I know its not technically not a Slaves army, but it has the same base pool of units to draw from.

The reroll charge command trait as well as the 6" pile in artefact look very strong, is just the tradeoff to get them is massive.  You lose allies, the Marks, spells, battleline options and Archaon.