AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

I have been running large blocks of warriors and while I do think they need a damage buff they are the most resilient unit I’ve ever run in my lists. 

I run the nurgle battalion normally, and 2 shrines for buffs to saves. With 3 up rerolling they are equal to bone reapers and with the mortals from the battalion they make up for their lack of damage a lot of the time. Had a block of 25 fight and kill archaon over the course of 4 fight phases. The enemy didn’t think I’d move from the objective and let me charge first lol, after a gruelling melee I finally knocked him down. I also had a funny moment where the khorne blood warriors (the ones that fight when they die) killed themselves like dominoes , since every one which died then took a few more with em. 

It should also be noted that they are cheaper per wound then mortek guard, Yet you have far more ways to buff your guys. Once you start attacking twice and adding battalions and marks we can grind out mortek. Shields help a lot vs nagash as well. But I also don’t see the need for more then one block of warriors in a list. Marauders are the best Calvary in the book (or at least they are as fast as Calvary lol) and do great damage. One block of warriors with roving bands of marauders plus some shrines sounds like it could work super well! I’ll be ordering 80 more marauders to get a set of 120 soon.

ive also been running a few marks so far. Slaanesh is the best when I’m not gunning for the generals version of then mark I’ve found. Nurgle is best only because of his awesome battalion. And undivided is absolutely incredible. Battle shock immunity is so much better then I thought it would be, and with shrines nearby the fnp becomes hilarious. With tzeentch buff the opponent will have to chew thru 4 saves lmao. The undivided buff also complements marauders super well, they go from reliable charges to never  failing a 12 inch charge once those rerolls start going. 

So far super satisfied with the book, I’ve fought the dreaded petrifax several times and felt on par with the right lists (not that bone reapers are even an issue compared to slaanesh and other armies) 

[Midjithero]

23 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

Yes, you 100% can. It's a bit of a "waste" since you are forced to run Undivided as your General's aura with him, and can take neither Trait nor Artefact with him, as you say.

 

Well, finally did a "real" 2k points game with StD against Ossiarch and I have to say that it was what I expected, mostly. Chaos Knights feel right, although I would never run them with lances unless you're 100% sure you can get at least 3 charges with them in the game. Warriors are... bland? Unreliable? As most people comment, they need to either be more resilient or, what would be 100% better, cost a bit more and have some rend on their basic weapons. Right now you pretty much must run a unit of 15+, they are slow, deal no damage, and will nevertheless die to anything with rend.

Daemon Princes (and Be'Lakor) and Marauders did some real work, though. Even playing against Ossiarch, the Marauders on charge are just great, and the DPs are great overall for whatever you might need them. My general was a DP with the amulet artefact, meaning he had a 3+ (ignore rend), followed with a 5+ FNP. It tanked a unit of 20 mortek guards (what's this stupid unit even) and Katakros the entire game.

I ended up winning thanks to points, but I certainly saw the army's main weaknesses, and why the most prominent complain is that we are sort of a jack of all trades army, but slightly below average. While I kinda disagree with the last, it is true that you need a very solid list. An unefficient StD list will fall through extremely fast.

So, I just started putting real thought into a despoilers list and I use Be’lakor as the general.  With a Warshrine, Be’lakor as Despoiler General gets the following saves: 4+ unmodified armor save, 5+ Despoilers General FNP, 6+ Undivided General FNP, 6+ Warshrine Aura!!  And, he heals d3 every hero phase and every time a unit fails a battle shock.  
I ran him with a 40block of marauders marked Undivided, and the rest of the army Slaanesh.  
also, Karkadrak Fs things so hard when you give it -3 rend on his main weapon.  I ran him in Godsworn and he’s awesome attacking potentially 3 times.  Although now I’m looking at Pleasurebound for the extra 3” pile in.

[Gistradagis]

2 minutes ago, Midjithero said:

So, I just started putting real thought into a despoilers list and I use Be’lakor as the general.  With a Warshrine, Be’lakor as Despoiler General gets the following saves: 4+ unmodified armor save, 5+ Despoilers General FNP, 6+ Undivided General FNP, 6+ Warshrine Aura!!  And, he heals d3 every hero phase and every time a unit fails a battle shock.  
I ran him with a 40block of marauders marked Undivided, and the rest of the army Slaanesh.  
also, Karkadrak Fs things so hard when you give it -3 rend on his main weapon.  I ran him in Godsworn and he’s awesome attacking potentially 3 times.  Although now I’m looking at Pleasurebound for the extra 3” pile in.

I had the same idea and I do believe it might have some potential, although only if you really dive super deep into Undivided. The only problem I see is this: StD is already a bit on the weaker side when it comes to damage. By running pure Undivided, you sacrifice the potential for strength for a 6+ FNP. Be'Lakor becomes nearly indestructible... but he's not THAT strong individually; he's great as a support unit, throwing and dispelling spells, using his Dark Master ability, etc. but he doesn't deal too much damage. I played a game of like 1.5k points of Undivided, and it felt very underwhelming.

I'd personally be interested in a Despoilers list that runs Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (he really does *** people up) with a bunch of DPs, Be'Lakor, and then some cavalry for a ruinbringers warband. A super aggressive list that looks to charge head-first into battle and destroy everything, or even more control-y with your troops' superior mobility.

[Midjithero]

7 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

I had the same idea and I do believe it might have some potential, although only if you really dive super deep into Undivided. The only problem I see is this: StD is already a bit on the weaker side when it comes to damage. By running pure Undivided, you sacrifice the potential for strength for a 6+ FNP. Be'Lakor becomes nearly indestructible... but he's not THAT strong individually; he's great as a support unit, throwing and dispelling spells, using his Dark Master ability, etc. but he doesn't deal too much damage. I played a game of like 1.5k points of Undivided, and it felt very underwhelming.

I'd personally be interested in a Despoilers list that runs Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (he really does *** people up) with a bunch of DPs, Be'Lakor, and then some cavalry for a ruinbringers warband. A super aggressive list that looks to charge head-first into battle and destroy everything, or even more control-y with your troops' superior mobility.

No, I only run Be’lakor and 1 unit of marauders as undivided, rest is Slaanesh.  I’ll add the potential Pleasurebound list, as I think it has play against cities, Tzeentch and shooty skaven because of the Spellportal/demon fire rift combo. 
my other thought is to drop the 40man marauders down to a 20man unit and add either palisades/balewind and 2nd Sorc Lord/great bray shaman for the Scorpian “Get over here!” Spell  

[Gistradagis]

3 minutes ago, Midjithero said:

No, I only run Be’lakor and 1 unit of marauders as undivided, rest is Slaanesh.  I’ll add the potential Pleasurebound list, as I think it has play against cities, Tzeentch and shooty skaven because of the Spellportal/demon fire rift combo. 
my other thought is to drop the 40man marauders down to a 20man unit and add either palisades/balewind and 2nd Sorc Lord/great bray shaman for the Scorpian “Get over here!” Spell  

I'd also run the Marauders as Slaanesh, then. They are a kamikaze unit, so I wouldn't recommend to try and give them the FNP aura, because it'll hardly be worth it. I'd also recommend against going down to 20. This would mean that losing a single unit already takes away their rend (for 20+ models), and the unit WILL lose a number of models every time anything targets them, FNP or no FNP. Just as an example, I ran them as Khorne and managed to cast Mask of Darkness, so I teleported them behind enemy lines and charged in a super-spread thin line. I hit a hero, a unit of stalkers, and some mortek guards. Killed the hero and some guards, and left a Stalker with 1 wound left (he had put them on the defensive). Then, on the counter, he killed like 14 Marauders. As I was running them as 40, however, that still gave me a really strong attack the following turn, while a unit of 20 would already be almost decimated and lose all their bonuses.

If you could get some points sacrificing stuff, it would be amazing to get a Daemon Prince in there. Put it as Slaanesh to get the full benefit of an 18" aura of an aggressive mark, and have him be a combat monster that kills a bunch of stuff and is difficult to bring down (with its 3+, 5+, heal on your turn). You could also give it a General Trait, then, such as Bolstered by Hate (+2 Wounds to model) or Paragon of Ruin (before first round, D3 of your units can move up to 5").

At least that's how I feel, but I haven't had that much experience with the army yet, so perhaps I'm missing something key and your idea's more solid than mine.

[Midjithero]

1 hour ago, Gistradagis said:

I'd also run the Marauders as Slaanesh, then. They are a kamikaze unit, so I wouldn't recommend to try and give them the FNP aura, because it'll hardly be worth it. I'd also recommend against going down to 20. This would mean that losing a single unit already takes away their rend (for 20+ models), and the unit WILL lose a number of models every time anything targets them, FNP or no FNP. Just as an example, I ran them as Khorne and managed to cast Mask of Darkness, so I teleported them behind enemy lines and charged in a super-spread thin line. I hit a hero, a unit of stalkers, and some mortek guards. Killed the hero and some guards, and left a Stalker with 1 wound left (he had put them on the defensive). Then, on the counter, he killed like 14 Marauders. As I was running them as 40, however, that still gave me a really strong attack the following turn, while a unit of 20 would already be almost decimated and lose all their bonuses.

If you could get some points sacrificing stuff, it would be amazing to get a Daemon Prince in there. Put it as Slaanesh to get the full benefit of an 18" aura of an aggressive mark, and have him be a combat monster that kills a bunch of stuff and is difficult to bring down (with its 3+, 5+, heal on your turn). You could also give it a General Trait, then, such as Bolstered by Hate (+2 Wounds to model) or Paragon of Ruin (before first round, D3 of your units can move up to 5").

At least that's how I feel, but I haven't had that much experience with the army yet, so perhaps I'm missing something key and your idea's more solid than mine.

So the reason I’m keeping them undivided (for a few more test games at least) is 2 fold...

1) as a kamikaze unit, if I buff them with the Warshrines undivided buff, they get reroll hits/wounds AND battle shock immunity, which I think battleshock immune is key when teleporting then away from a heroes aura,  even a generals.

2) if I go second against an alpha list, they’re deployed in both the Warshrines Aura range and Be’lakors range so they get 2 6+ FNP. 
 

ive only played 3 games with the list (different battallion not pleasurebound), but for me, it’s synergizing well.  I plan to play a lot of S2D this year, but am by no means a top player, just want to make the time work after all the scepticism (myself included) 

[Luke1705]

Has anyone had decent tournament success running the big guy under slaves allegiance? I keep making lists with him for slaanesh and tzeentch but I’m trying to craft one for slaves

[W1tchhunter]

3 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

I have been running large blocks of warriors and while I do think they need a damage buff they are the most resilient unit I’ve ever run in my lists. 

I run the nurgle battalion normally, and 2 shrines for buffs to saves. With 3 up rerolling they are equal to bone reapers and with the mortals from the battalion they make up for their lack of damage a lot of the time. Had a block of 25 fight and kill archaon over the course of 4 fight phases. The enemy didn’t think I’d move from the objective and let me charge first lol, after a gruelling melee I finally knocked him down. I also had a funny moment where the khorne blood warriors (the ones that fight when they die) killed themselves like dominoes , since every one which died then took a few more with em. 

It should also be noted that they are cheaper per wound then mortek guard, Yet you have far more ways to buff your guys. Once you start attacking twice and adding battalions and marks we can grind out mortek. Shields help a lot vs nagash as well. But I also don’t see the need for more then one block of warriors in a list. Marauders are the best Calvary in the book (or at least they are as fast as Calvary lol) and do great damage. One block of warriors with roving bands of marauders plus some shrines sounds like it could work super well! I’ll be ordering 80 more marauders to get a set of 120 soon.

ive also been running a few marks so far. Slaanesh is the best when I’m not gunning for the generals version of then mark I’ve found. Nurgle is best only because of his awesome battalion. And undivided is absolutely incredible. Battle shock immunity is so much better then I thought it would be, and with shrines nearby the fnp becomes hilarious. With tzeentch buff the opponent will have to chew thru 4 saves lmao. The undivided buff also complements marauders super well, they go from reliable charges to never  failing a 12 inch charge once those rerolls start going. 

So far super satisfied with the book, I’ve fought the dreaded petrifax several times and felt on par with the right lists (not that bone reapers are even an issue compared to slaanesh and other armies) 

Any chance you could show off your Chaos Warrior list? 

This is what I'm trying out tomorrow.

[Ellarr]

7 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Has anyone had decent tournament success running the big guy under slaves allegiance? I keep making lists with him for slaanesh and tzeentch but I’m trying to craft one for slaves

This is a list I'm planning on taking to EGGS at the end of the month - a sorc lord can be swapped for a chaos lord its just a matter of preference. Yes its low body count but you're basically banking on Archie and the V-guard acting as hammers while everything else plays area control.

[GeneralZero]

What do you think about the 2 big beasts we have (in the same kit) : the Mutalith and the Slaughterbrute ? The miniature is wonderful, the Mutalith can also be plaid in a 40K Thousand Sons army (and being not that bad as it is cheap in pts). So, how could we buff & play those big beasties?

Edited February 13, 2020 by GeneralZero

[CJPT]

30 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

What do you think about the 2 big beasts we have (in the same kit) : the Mutalith and the Slaughterbrute ? The miniature is wonderful, the Mutalith can also be plaid in a 40K Thousand Sons army (and being not that bad as it is cheap in pts). So, how could we buff & play those big beasties?

I can only speak to the Mutalith Vortex Beast, but I've found that it's an amazing model and an underwhelming presence in the game. It's about as useful as the Chaos Warshrine would be if you had to randomly select which prayer you got to cast each turn, but for the same amount of points.

I really like the concept of the unit, which is a debuffing/damaging aura beast that needs to be protected so that it gets to be a presence in as many hero phases as possible. But it doesn't feel quite right because while having a 1/3 chance to do D6 mortal wounds is pretty good, it's super swingy. And the rest of the debuffs it can put out are really mixed - two versions of -1" to move and -1 bravery. There'll probably be instances where one of those is perfect for the situation you find yourself in - but there's no way to set it up because it's so random.

Honestly, I wished it worked more like the 40K version - where you can either pick an effect or roll twice. And I wish the effects were more evenly balanced in terms of power - I'd be happy for it to lose the potential to do D6 mortal wounds in return for stronger debuffs at the other end of the scale, like -1 save or -1 to hit until your next hero phase.

[Bolek]

Hey guys got a question. For the purpose of batlions Nurgle Plaguetouched warband or other gods. Can i take only heroes in them? For example for nurgle could i take let's say 5 heroes and 3 units of marauder horesman? 

[Luke1705]

4 minutes ago, Bolek said:

Hey guys got a question. For the purpose of batlions Nurgle Plaguetouched warband or other gods. Can i take only heroes in them? For example for nurgle could i take let's say 5 heroes and 3 units of marauder horesman? 

Yes. A hero is still a unit

[Luke1705]

1 hour ago, Ellarr said:

This is a list I'm planning on taking to EGGS at the end of the month - a sorc lord can be swapped for a chaos lord its just a matter of preference. Yes its low body count but you're basically banking on Archie and the V-guard acting as hammers while everything else plays area control.

Interesting that you still prefer the plague touched. I’m not convinced it’s worthwhile still. I’d probably also drop the warshrine in favor of more bodies since the sorc lord can buff archaon anyhow and I’ve never passed a 6+ FNP a day in my life 😂

[Bolek]

2 minutes ago, Luke1705 said:

Yes. A hero is still a unit

Wow that is amaizingly strong batalion then.... crazy good! I was pretty sure unit refers to non hero since a hero is specificlay noted... 

[Luke1705]

Just now, Bolek said:

Wow that is amaizingly strong batalion then.... crazy good! I was pretty sure unit refers to non hero since a hero is specificlay noted... 

It definitely has a great deal of flexibility as far as which units you want to pick. I’m just not sure the effect, low drop count and extra relic are worth 180 points

[Bolek]

Just now, Luke1705 said:

It definitely has a great deal of flexibility as far as which units you want to pick. I’m just not sure the effect, low drop count and extra relic are worth 180 points

The effect is also really strong! Low drop is really good for StD the relic maybe not so much but command point again quite usefull.  1-2 drop army is something that always is a strong thing. 

[Ellarr]

4 minutes ago, Luke1705 said:

Interesting that you still prefer the plague touched. I’m not convinced it’s worthwhile still. I’d probably also drop the warshrine in favor of more bodies since the sorc lord can buff archaon anyhow and I’ve never passed a 6+ FNP a day in my life 😂

'Still prefer the plague touched'? It's not been nerfed like the DP command ability so its sitll a great effect to have on your warband. I like the idea of being 1 drop but I'm prepared to hear an alternative argument.

[Luke1705]

1 minute ago, Ellarr said:

'Still prefer the plague touched'? It's not been nerfed like the DP command ability so its sitll a great effect to have on your warband. I like the idea of being 1 drop but I'm prepared to hear an alternative argument.

I was comparing it to the old plaguetouched, which I liked quite a bit. 1 drop is assuredly very strong and really you’re only paying 130 since you get the extra command point. Without the warband, you get 20 more marauders, which is probably not worth it alone. But if my math is right you could drop the warband, warshrine, and a sorc lord for 60 marauders or 20 more marauders and 3 more varanguard.

At that point, of course, you’re probably going host of the everchosen and you have an inherently different list

[Luke1705]

The list I scratch built was:

Archaon

sorc lord

regular lord (or second sorc lord)

6 varanguard

40 marauders

Iron golems or cogs

[Gistradagis]

1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

What do you think about the 2 big beast we have (in the same kit) : the Mutalith and the Slaughterbrute ? The miniature is wonderful, the Mutalith can also be plaid in a 40K Thousand Sons army (and being not that bad as it is cheap in pts). So, how could we buff & play those big beasties?

The Mutalith is so-so. A bit too random to be considered reliable in combat. The Slaughterbrute is famous for being historically bad. As far as I know, it was bad in fantasy, was bad in AoS, and is still bad in the new StD. I'd rather get the Soul Grinder, although I have yet to try it in play to see if it's good enough.

In regards of how to buff them, I'd say you probably want to run a Despoilers list, if you wanna play monsters.

[Ellarr]

11 minutes ago, Luke1705 said:

I was comparing it to the old plaguetouched, which I liked quite a bit. 1 drop is assuredly very strong and really you’re only paying 130 since you get the extra command point. Without the warband, you get 20 more marauders, which is probably not worth it alone. But if my math is right you could drop the warband, warshrine, and a sorc lord for 60 marauders or 20 more marauders and 3 more varanguard.

At that point, of course, you’re probably going host of the everchosen and you have an inherently different list

I am host of the everchosen.

[Luke1705]

1 hour ago, Ellarr said:

I am host of the everchosen.

Sometimes, at 6 in the morning, I forget what subfactions are whoops

[PainfullyMediocre]

12 hours ago, Midjithero said:

So, I just started putting real thought into a despoilers list and I use Be’lakor as the general.  With a Warshrine, Be’lakor as Despoiler General gets the following saves: 4+ unmodified armor save, 5+ Despoilers General FNP, 6+ Undivided General FNP, 6+ Warshrine Aura!!  And, he heals d3 every hero phase and every time a unit fails a battle shock.

Be'lakor wouldn't get the Warshrine aura as it only affects Mortals sadly.

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

14 hours ago, Gistradagis said:

Well, finally did a "real" 2k points game with StD against Ossiarch and I have to say that it was what I expected, mostly. Chaos Knights feel right, although I would never run them with lances unless you're 100% sure you can get at least 3 charges with them in the game. Warriors are... bland? Unreliable? As most people comment, they need to either be more resilient or, what would be 100% better, cost a bit more and have some rend on their basic weapons. Right now you pretty much must run a unit of 15+, they are slow, deal no damage, and will nevertheless die to anything with rend.

I agree that Chaos Warriors are a bit bland, but I don't see that as being too bad.  They hold the line well enough, I would just want a little more damage coming out of them.  I think they are tough enough.  4+ Save with innate re-roll over 9 models can absorb a good deal of even Rend -1.  It is possible against OSR that the Mortek Guard double and then some damage output with Rend -1 makes Chaos Warriors seem more fragile. Even if it was something else, my expereince has been Bonereapers have a lot of stuff that is just as tough but hits noticeably harder.  I have had KO focus fire at my Warriors for an entire turn only removing 2-3 models.  You are right though, I would never run then at anything less than 15.  Most games I don't even bother look to get them in fights anymore.  Just run them to the part of the table I want to hold and if my opponent also wants that part of the table they have to go them my Warriors. 

 

13 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

It should also be noted that they are cheaper per wound then mortek guard, Yet you have far more ways to buff your guys. Once you start attacking twice and adding battalions and marks we can grind out mortek. Shields help a lot vs nagash as well. But I also don’t see the need for more then one block of warriors in a list. Marauders are the best Calvary in the book (or at least they are as fast as Calvary lol) and do great damage. One block of warriors with roving bands of marauders plus some shrines sounds like it could work super well! I’ll be ordering 80 more marauders to get a set of 120 soon.

You are right Chaos Warriors are  about 30% cheaper for the same number of Wounds.  Although, without help Warriors are going to lose more to Battleshock and have quite a bit less the damage output with no Rend.  If you factor in a Chaos Lord on foot, Chaos Warriors become more expensive for close to the same damage output still will no Rend compared to Mortek Guard.  I think it is a bad idea going head-to-head with a lot of the Bonereaper equivalents.  You might be able to pull a good hammer and anvil with Warriors and Marauders though.

 

I think both Chaos Warriors and the Stormcast equivalent could use a little more umpft.  I personally don't want them cheaper as I like the numbers I run them in.  I just want Chaos Warriors to be more than moving walls.