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AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion


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1 minute ago, Rod said:

thanks man, my thoughts exactly, 

we don really have the stopping power and what is worse we don have staying power, 4+ ? ,  current age of sigmar is full o rend -1 or better

im going to try archaon + friends ( greater daemons).

its a shame bc  i really like chaos knights models  but is no use if they are wiped by everything in the game.

 

ALSO 4+ IGNORE WOUND SHOULD BE BANNED , WTF GW, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING

 

The Knights are not the problem. If you run 10 in one unit and have a demon mount hero and a regular Chaos Lord around they are deadly in a charge.

Problem with that is we have to play despoilers for that with the d3 command point per turn. It also excludes the demon princes because they are not contributing anything to that combo.

We are just back to square one, where we play Despoilers without Despoilers.

This is really no fun

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Just now, Kurrilino said:

The Knights are not the problem. If you run 10 in one unit and have a demon mount hero and a regular Chaos Lord around they are deadly in a charge.

Problem with that is we have to play despoilers for that with the d3 command point per turn. It also excludes the demon princes because they are not contributing anything to that combo.

We are just back to square one, where we play Despoilers without Despoilers.

This is really no fun

on charge with ensorcelled weapons 16 3+3+ rend1 d1 is not enough to fight same level units. 

sure they can wipe chaff but i want my knights on par with , lets say .... HEARTHGUARD

 

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4 minutes ago, Rod said:

on charge with ensorcelled weapons 16 3+3+ rend1 d1 is not enough to fight same level units. 

sure they can wipe chaff but i want my knights on par with , lets say .... HEARTHGUARD

 

Nah! Hearthguard are cheaper, knights can never be as good as them since 10“ movement seems to cost about 100points.

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Dang, we sure are bringing the mood down, guys 😛

Question for AoS veterans: to what degree can we expect/hope for GW to say "ok, STD came out barely standing by itself, so we're changing X unit/points"? Does it happen once in a while, once a year (with general's handbook) or practically never. Mostly, I wanna know if the money I put into an STD army is lost forever if I wanna win once in a while xD

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4 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

Dang, we sure are bringing the mood down, guys 😛

Question for AoS veterans: to what degree can we expect/hope for GW to say "ok, STD came out barely standing by itself, so we're changing X unit/points"? Does it happen once in a while, once a year (with general's handbook) or practically never. Mostly, I wanna know if the money I put into an STD army is lost forever if I wanna win once in a while xD

In half a year.

edit: Yet until GW finally gets the points right it will take 1-1,5 years, since the first changes usually don‘t help much (+-10 points here and there)

also we have a feedback threat

now let‘s stop ranting and get back to... positivity.

when will the sphiranx hit the shelves?

Edited by JackStreicher
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Well they are already on pre-order, aren't they? Sphiranx and the Crusher thingie. Both look pretty fun, although I fear running them into anything (10 wounds is nice, 4+ save not so sure).

5 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

In half a year.

edit: Yet until GW finally gets the points right it will take 1-1,5 years, since the first changes usually don‘t help much (+-10 points here and there)

I see. Well, "any" change will be welcome. STD armies being able to fit in something else might be surprisingly good. I do think the battletome has a number of cool/interesting units, but everything is kinda overcosted, so you always run into points problems.

I'm personally trying to create a DPs family Despoilers list, although I'm kinda lost. No idea if the list has any value/potential.

Edited by Gistradagis
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41 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I put my S2D on ice until they‘ll get new multipart kits for warriors and knights. Until then I am pretty sick of being wiped off the table by orruks 24/7.

maybe I‘ll change my mind but this book and the sheer lack of power frustrates me utterly.

😕

Well if that helps, there is something viable.

Ravagers with 4 Gaunt summoners, The rest filled out with Ruinbringer Battallion and Chariots and a mind stealer

The opponent will have to deal with 200 extra wounds from Pink Horrors and 50 extra models from Ravagers, preferable Golems.

While those guys just stay on objects the chariots run around and hit the entangled enemy units for d3 impact mortal wounds each. Mostly you don't even have to fight. And even if you have to, the mind stealer is your best friend making the enemy unit strike last.

I win lots of games playing like that but again all this has nothing to do with playing warhammer.

It looks like an overcrowded country fair and you watch the bumper cars.

Edited by Kurrilino
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1 minute ago, Kurrilino said:

Well if that helps, there is something viable.

Ravagers with 4 Gaunt summoners, The rest filled out with Ruinbringer Battallion and Chariots and a mind stealer

The opponent will have to deal with 200 extra wounds from Pink Horrors and 50 extra models from Ravagers, preferable Golems.

While those guys just stay on objects the chariots run around and hit the entangled enemy units for d3 impact mortal wounds each. Mostly you don't even have to fight. And even if you have to, the mind stealer is your best friend making the enemy unit strike last.

I win lots of games playing like that but again, all this has nothing to do with playing warhammer.

It looks like an overcrowded country fair and you watch the bumper cars.

Yes. Yet I would like to have nice games without being forced into cheesy lists... 😕

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A consensus from some of the top analysts (Vince, Honest Wargamer) is that STD are slightly over costed for what they do right now.  The June Generals Handbook could honestly open up a huge amount of units with some minor points tweaks downwards.  Once the sphinx drops we also get a massive boost for 100 points and that too can open up a few more options on the table.  They are definitely middle of the pack army but they aren't bad by any stretch of the imagination.  I would say the only real let down for me with the book so far is the ****** poor options for mixing chaos armies.  Much like beats these guys feel like they never really fit into any other chaos army and other chaos armies barely help them out (one or two character aside).

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11 minutes ago, Death1942 said:

A consensus from some of the top analysts (Vince, Honest Wargamer) is that STD are slightly over costed for what they do right now.  The June Generals Handbook could honestly open up a huge amount of units with some minor points tweaks downwards.  Once the sphinx drops we also get a massive boost for 100 points and that too can open up a few more options on the table.  They are definitely middle of the pack army but they aren't bad by any stretch of the imagination.  I would say the only real let down for me with the book so far is the ****** poor options for mixing chaos armies.  Much like beats these guys feel like they never really fit into any other chaos army and other chaos armies barely help them out (one or two character aside).

That's what I hear all the time, yeah. Most opinions on the warscrolls go something along the line of "this is pretty good/interesting... but in any list we're just running out of points so we can't afford it."

If STD received some much-needed points reduction, we would be able to bring more units, in bigger numbers. I'd feel much better about STD.

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i agree 100% about point reductions army wide,  

varanguard our most powerful unit is "ok-good"  with Archaon, a 800point character otherwise they suck.

thats awful given that we really need non-character high damage units.

 

anyway, my next project is going to be Archaon and friends

 

 

 

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Personally I don't think point reductions will solve all the problems. They need to be stronger. I know they want to sell as many minis as possible obviously but I think outside of Cultists and Marauders S2D should be an elite force on IJ level...

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Quick question; the Gaunt Summoner on foot (in the Tzeentch book) has the exact same keywords as the Gaunt Summoner on Disc, including the Slaves to Darkness keyword. In much the same way as running Tzeentch-marked Chaos Warriors/Knights/etc in a Tzeentch allegiance army, surely I can run the Gaunt Summoner on foot in a Slaves to Darkness allegiance army, right? I only ask because Warscroll Builder defaults to treating him as an ally (which I can change thankfully) and it prevents me from selecting him as a General, or to receive artefacts/spells/command traits/etc.

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12 hours ago, Gistradagis said:

That's what I hear all the time, yeah. Most opinions on the warscrolls go something along the line of "this is pretty good/interesting... but in any list we're just running out of points so we can't afford it."

If STD received some much-needed points reduction, we would be able to bring more units, in bigger numbers. I'd feel much better about STD.

Imo S2D fails in the regard that you are better off to play its units in one of the other Battletomes (Hedonites: You‘ll always get the exploding 6s and even double exploding 6s with 20+ models etc. Plus drpravity points plus synergies across the entire army).

I actually expected S2D to be more focused on the undivided allegiance, yet it‘s just worse than all the god allegiances.  Also all the Aura effects are too short

Edit: Cultists are badly implemented since they don‘t benefit from marks at all and are nothing but objective campers while having little to no useful command ability synergies.

units like the ogroid Myrmidon cry out „meh!“ while being overcosted and not having much use... well

it does not seem like we‘ll be getting a true multipart Knighrs and warriors kit... this whole army feels like it was half-way updated but not really.

 

yet I like the way the army plays and feels though it‘s just too weak except for a few cheesy builds.

Edited by JackStreicher
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11 hours ago, Jaskier said:

Quick question; the Gaunt Summoner on foot (in the Tzeentch book) has the exact same keywords as the Gaunt Summoner on Disc, including the Slaves to Darkness keyword. In much the same way as running Tzeentch-marked Chaos Warriors/Knights/etc in a Tzeentch allegiance army, surely I can run the Gaunt Summoner on foot in a Slaves to Darkness allegiance army, right? I only ask because Warscroll Builder defaults to treating him as an ally (which I can change thankfully) and it prevents me from selecting him as a General, or to receive artefacts/spells/command traits/etc.

The Gaunt Summoner on foot isn't part of STD's battletome, so the answer could be no (except as an ally). Only the Gaunt Summoner on Disc is in it. Edit: Appears to be keyword-based, so disregard it.

2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Imo S2D fails in the regard that you are better off to play its units in one of the other Battletomes (Hedonites: You‘ll always get the exploding 6s and even double exploding 6s with 20+ models etc. Plus drpravity points plus synergies across the entire army).

I actually expected S2D to be more focused on the undivided allegiance, yet it‘s just worse than all the god allegiances.  Also all the Aura effects are too short

Edit: Cultists are badly implemented since they don‘t benefit from marks at all and are nothing but objective campers while having little to no useful command ability synergies.

units like the ogroid Myrmidon cry out „meh!“ while being overcosted and not having much use... well

it does not seem like we‘ll be getting a true multipart Knighrs and warriors kit... this whole army feels like it was half-way updated but not really.

 

yet I like the way the army plays and feels though it‘s just too weak except for a few cheesy builds.

I feel similarly. I really like the whole STD deal, and am, perhaps a bit stubbornly, trying to make it work instead of just going back to my Nurgle army.

I do honestly not get what was the point of adding the cultists to the army and then make them so inefficient through and through. If at least they had a Mark... not even a choice between all the gods, but a forced one each, most would be playable. Just as you say, the update feels half-assed.

 

PD: Anyone has thoughts on the Soul Grinder? Some people tell me he's good, others say it's a waste of points. Kinda considering one for my Despoiler-monsters army.

Edited by Gistradagis
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8 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

The Gaunt Summoner on foot isn't part of STD's battletome, so the answer would be no (except as an ally). Only the Gaunt Summoner on Disc is in it.

Then why archaon can be taken in all four specific gods books without being in that battletome?

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12 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

The Gaunt Summoner on foot isn't part of STD's battletome, so the answer would be no (except as an ally). Only the Gaunt Summoner on Disc is in it.

My hold-up is that Slaves to Darkness units themselves aren't explicitly part of the Khorne/Nurgle/Slaanesh/Tzeentch battletomes, but you can run their units in those books as part of that army without being counted as allies (the same way it works for marked Beastmen) as long as the units have the appropriate Mark of Chaos. Are those books the exception rather than the norm?

I just checked the rules on allegiances for clarity and it is keyword based, so the Gaunt Summoner on foot should absolutely be usable in Slaves to Darkness allegiance without needing to count as an ally, unless I'm missing something that makes the god-marked books distinct in this area? I'm 99% sure I've got it right, I just find it weird that Warscroll Builder doesn't accommodate this when it works the other way for the Tzeentch/Slaanesh/etc books. Just means manually inserting extra info into the notes section, no big bother! Thanks for the answer!

As far as Soul Grinders are concerned, I will say this; I can say from personal experience that they are fantastic in the Daemonsteel Contingent, but sadly that's a Slaanesh-exclusive battalion. Outside of it, they seem like they're good all-rounders, and definitely combo well with the Despoilers traits.

Edited by Jaskier
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28 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

My hold-up is that Slaves to Darkness units themselves aren't explicitly part of the Khorne/Nurgle/Slaanesh/Tzeentch battletomes, but you can run their units in those books as part of that army without being counted as allies (the same way it works for marked Beastmen) as long as the units have the appropriate Mark of Chaos. Are those books the exception rather than the norm?

I just checked the rules on allegiances for clarity and it is keyword based, so the Gaunt Summoner on foot should absolutely be usable in Slaves to Darkness allegiance without needing to count as an ally, unless I'm missing something that makes the god-marked books distinct in this area? I'm 99% sure I've got it right, I just find it weird that Warscroll Builder doesn't accommodate this when it works the other way for the Tzeentch/Slaanesh/etc books. Just means manually inserting extra info into the notes section, no big bother! Thanks for the answer!

No idea honestly, I was mostly guessing after checking the STD battletome. I guessed it was about Marks/keywords like you said, so some units from STD can normally go to other armies, but not the other way around.

28 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

As far as Soul Grinders are concerned, I will say this; I can say from personal experience that they are fantastic in the Daemonsteel Contingent, but sadly that's a Slaanesh-exclusive battalion. Outside of it, they seem like they're good all-rounders, and definitely combo well with the Despoilers traits.

@Jaskier Ah, I see, thanks. Currently playing around with the list, thinking of running something like 3-4 DPs, Be'Lakor, a sorcerer, 40 marauders, 2 units of 5 knights, and a Soul Grinder, full Khorne (except sorcerer, duh). Considering sacrificing one of the DPs to make the sorcerer a Sorcerer on Manticore, since it looks cool as heck and also counts as a monster. Something like this, dunno if I'm going a bit too crazy or if this might surprise me in a good way O:

bc6deb13627d5304e67d960d12fb964d.png

Edited by Gistradagis
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1 hour ago, Gistradagis said:

The Gaunt Summoner on foot isn't part of STD's battletome, so the answer would be no (except as an ally). Only the Gaunt Summoner on Disc is in it.

This is wrong. It is keyword based, so the Gaunt summoner on foot can be taken with s2d allegiance, in the same way marked s2d units (and Archaon) can be taken as the 4 respective god allegiances.

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On 2/1/2020 at 4:42 PM, Rod said:

on charge with ensorcelled weapons 16 3+3+ rend1 d1 is not enough to fight same level units. 

sure they can wipe chaff but i want my knights on par with , lets say .... HEARTHGUARD

 

Actually i play lances and only on units that are already entangled

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