AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, ColsBols said:

where did you get that mammoth he's lovely

Mierce Miniatures: Maatmäk, Giant Mammox

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

What do you think about the new guy in our army? (rule wise please, because miniature wise it is a superb addition to the StD range).

My 2cts: I think that we have already many good characters, that are expensive (in pts). So, it'll be difficult to add  this one especially compared to lords, wizzards and princes...(Even worse if you add a gaunt lol)

As mentioned by s.o. Else:

nice Daemon Prince.

ruleswise he is expensive and buffs rather useless units (cultists) with an insignificant buff... if his attacks dealt 2 damage each he‘d have a place in the army but right now our entire roaster is too expensive and one can barely fit in another 140 pts (that don‘t serve a purpose and die too quickly).

my 2ct =}

[GeneralZero]

41 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

Give him wings call it a Daemon Prince.

Many people already do that with the ogroid, mostly for 40K because he fits so well in a TS army 😉

 

[GeneralZero]

sorry double post

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by GeneralZero

[GeneralZero]

double post, something has gone superbad 😞

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by GeneralZero

[MitGas]

37 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Many people already do that with the ogroid, mostly for 40K because he fits so well in a TS army 😉

 

He's a bit too small for a DP I guess but he's such a fantastic model that nobody should mind. And unlike the thaumaturge this one has pretty meh rules IMO.

[NJohansson]

42 minutes ago, MitGas said:

He's a bit too small for a DP I guess but he's such a fantastic model that nobody should mind. And unlike the thaumaturge this one has pretty meh rules IMO.

The Thaumaturge seems to be strictly better at everything for just 20 points more and is a wizard with a good spell. So I do not see any reason to use the mundane Ogroid as anything else but a count as Thaumaturge (if one really likes and want to use the particular model).

[MitGas]

56 minutes ago, NJohansson said:

The Thaumaturge seems to be strictly better at everything for just 20 points more and is a wizard with a good spell. So I do not see any reason to use the mundane Ogroid as anything else but a count as Thaumaturge (if one really likes and want to use the particular model).

Yeah, no idea why they gave him such bad rules. It's a beautiful model that deserved much more!

[Bloodmoon]

If its spear was just 2 damage, it might have a place somewhere. Yet here we are

 

[Sinfullyvannila]

7 hours ago, NJohansson said:

The Thaumaturge seems to be strictly better at everything for just 20 points more and is a wizard with a good spell. So I do not see any reason to use the mundane Ogroid as anything else but a count as Thaumaturge (if one really likes and want to use the particular model).

Eh, I’ve used the Thaumaturge a lot and he dies really quickly with his 5+ save and no shrug.

[Mikeymajq]

I really like the model and will get it just too have it. And I'll try him out in my ravagers lists I think, but that command ability will go unused which is a shame.

[Vitch_EGS]

So I finally have fired together a 1000pt themed list for my Bloodpox Raiders of Chamon.  A nurgle/khorne mono based force.

Ravager Legion - 1000pts

Leaders

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak [250pts]: General, Khorne

Chaos Sorcerer Lord [110pts]: 1. Binding Damnation, Nurgle

Ogroid Myrmidon [140pts]

Battleline

Chaos Knights [180pts]: 5 Chaos Knights, Cursed Lance, Khorne

Chaos Warriors [100pts]: 5 Chaos Warriors, Chaos Hand Weapons and Chaos Runeshields, Nurgle

Chaos Warriors [100pts]: 5 Chaos Warriors, Chaos Hand Weapons and Chaos Runeshields, Nurgle

Other

Furies [100pts]: 6 Furies

So general idea is that it's an Iron Golem based force and throughout the battle will call apon their hordes. (3 squads of cultists) Starting general will be the Sorcerer who is nurgle to prevent sniping a little bit. Then depending if Lord is in position him or the Ogroid take over. 

Iron golems then fill in where needed either camping or narking with petty shooting attacks and furies stick to knights and Lord to clog up counter attacks somewhat. Yet to actually read book proper to select artifacts and such so suggestions welcome, and all going well done painting soon to post it too (Bar Sorcerer and Ogroid).

Edited January 24, 2020 by Vitch_EGS
Mistake in roster sorry and bad typos

[MitGas]

1 hour ago, Vitch_EGS said:

 A nurgle/khorne mono based force.

"You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means"

That's not a mono list. Always go for mono lists to earn the favor of either Nurgle or Khorne, unless you can go for Tzeentch. Then always go for Tzeentch. Might not be the strongest but Tzeentch is the best. YAY for change! Especially spare change - this campaign runs on donations so open your hearts and purses to the Changer of Ways.

Sorry, I'll see myself out now...

Regarding your list: the ogroid is a handsome gentleman but those points could be used more efficiently IMO.

[Vitch_EGS]

That's right.. I'm so used to normally doing mono god stuff I don't know why I said that at all.

Yeah reading up a bit it does seem like theirs better bang for my buck in the book but the model is so cracker and a must get for my Warcry side of things. Just be a shame not to use it.

[MitGas]

7 minutes ago, Vitch_EGS said:

That's right.. I'm so used to normally doing mono god stuff I don't know why I said that at all.

Yeah reading up a bit it does seem like theirs better bang for my buck in the book but the model is so cracker and a must get for my Warcry side of things. Just be a shame not to use it.

Ah, don't mind me, I just didn't have enough sleep and thought I'd be funny. Yeah, the Myrmidon is a wasted opportunity although it's likely he'll sooner or later will get an updated (and better) warscroll. He's a prime candidate.

[Spears]

.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Spears

[ColsBols]

ok gonna try out this list tonight against nighthaunt, any thoughts?

RAVAGERS

Chaos Lord on Chungus Dragon - Master of Deception, Mark of Khorne, Aura of Khorne, Ethereal Amulet

Chaos Lord on Foot - Mark of the High-Favored, Reaperblade + Daemonboundsteel, Khorne marks

Bloodsecrator

Be'lakor

Chaos Warriors x15 shields

Chaos Knights, Ensorcelled Weps

Chaos Marauder Horse 10x

Chaos Warriors 5x

Bloodmarked Warband

Chaos Chosen 5x, Khorne

Command point 

2000/2000

--------------------

Got 40 marauders to summon in and surprise charge his backline....but just realized they only summon in ten.

Should I drop the 5x warriors and CP for a unit of marauders (axes)?

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

@ColsBols

It seems light on the Mortal Heroes to me to really make use of Ravagers, but I am guessing that is more a case of the army you have more than anything. 

I assume Chungus Dragon is the Karkadrak which you will probably keep close to your knights.  Which I think works well.  Be careful with your Chaos Lord on foot, he can feel rather fragile compared to a group of 10+, or 5 for that matter, Chaos Warriors.   The other Leaders I can't comment too much on.

I don't think 5 Warriors does much of anything beyond being a speed bump, and even Slaves to Darkness have cheaper speed bumps (I like Furies if that if I want a speed bump).  Given what you have I would consider going with two groups of 10 Warriors.  Still not great (I really like groups of 15), but you also don't have much in the way of support and against Nighthaunts, so Battleshock is going to be a thing.  Probably a real thing since you are going to be Command Point starved.  I don't have experience with Marauder stuff, but I prefer your Plan B of getting a unit of Marauders more as they have better movement and more damage and are just as likely to have as much staying power.

Things to watch out for with Nighthaunts is they are way faster than you and Battleshock is going to happen on your units.  Fortunately, you don't have much Rend so it isn't like you are losing out much there. 

[ColsBols]

21 minutes ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

@ColsBols

It seems light on the Mortal Heroes to me to really make use of Ravagers, but I am guessing that is more a case of the army you have more than anything. 

I assume Chungus Dragon is the Karkadrak which you will probably keep close to your knights.  Which I think works well.  Be careful with your Chaos Lord on foot, he can feel rather fragile compared to a group of 10+, or 5 for that matter, Chaos Warriors.   The other Leaders I can't comment too much on.

I don't think 5 Warriors does much of anything beyond being a speed bump, and even Slaves to Darkness have cheaper speed bumps (I like Furies if that if I want a speed bump).  Given what you have I would consider going with two groups of 10 Warriors.  Still not great (I really like groups of 15), but you also don't have much in the way of support and against Nighthaunts, so Battleshock is going to be a thing.  Probably a real thing since you are going to be Command Point starved.  I don't have experience with Marauder stuff, but I prefer your Plan B of getting a unit of Marauders more as they have better movement and more damage and are just as likely to have as much staying power.

Things to watch out for with Nighthaunts is they are way faster than you and Battleshock is going to happen on your units.  Fortunately, you don't have much Rend so it isn't like you are losing out much there. 

I have a WarQueen to throw in but i want Bellykor to lock down the block of 30 reapers I know i'm going to be facing and the Bloodsecrator for +attacks...and yeah I have just 20 warriors...should I take out 5 maruader horse and summon them instead?

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

8 minutes ago, ColsBols said:

I have a WarQueen to throw in but i want Bellykor to lock down the block of 30 reapers I know i'm going to be facing and the Bloodsecrator for +attacks...and yeah I have just 20 warriors...should I take out 5 maruader horse and summon them instead?

Like I said, I don't have any experience with Marauders.  I can say with out the bought Command Point you may have to make a choice between Rally the Tribes or the Chaos Lord's Spurred by the Gods early game and/or not auto-passing Battleshock.   Granted, you only have two Mortal Heroes to use Ralley the Tribes but by then its possible good portion of the game is over.  Plus, while I have only used Warcry Cultists,  and I have only had limited success with them in.

So, I can't really say.  It is largely up to what you want your units to do.  I like to plan on trying to control 2/3rd the table and have a couple of units of 15 Warriors to hold ground while my Knights/Varanguard get into fights.  I try to use my Warcry Cultists as skirmishers to annoy/separate my opponent's army, or if they leave something isolated near edge of the table for easy pickings. I try to have my Heroes supporting these big blocks of Battleline units as best they can while not exposing them to harm too much except the Karkadrak Lord which I view more as a combat hero than support.  It really does matter how you plan you use the units in your army.  And I think support units are key.

I think Marauder Horsemen will give you some speed to keep up with Nighthaunts.  At the same time, I think they are going to struggle to stay on the table especially without support or if they get cutoff.  Things that are kinda easy for Nighthaunts to accomplish.  Normally I would say build bigger units, but again; Battleshock is not going to be your friend and you should expect loses anytime you have to roll.  That's not to say you can't feed the woodchipper and drown an area in bodies to hold it.  I just don't know how well that works since I heavily favor tough as boots units that my opponent has to spend quite a bit of time chipping them down.

[NJohansson]

17 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Eh, I’ve used the Thaumaturge a lot and he dies really quickly with his 5+ save and no shrug.

And the Std one has a 4+ no shrug - in my experience both die to anything remotely dedicated to killing them. But the Thaumaturge does (surprisingly) more damage in melee, has a d6 mortal wound spell which also heals for the same amount and it can dispel and cast spells for 20 points more. I am not saying that either is a great model (I rarely use any Ogroid in an army) but if taking one the Thaumaturge wins out hands down every time (IMHO).

[Gistradagis]

Seeing some Despoiler lists but people are running them with only 1 DP? Isn't that a bit of a waste? I was trying to make a list using the new StC as a core, and got something like this (not sure if Undivided, or a combination of Nurgle on infantry and Slaanesh on Cavalry):

Leaders

Be'Lakor

DP (general)

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak

Chaos Sorcerer Lord

Units

5 x Chaos Knights

1 x Chaos Chariots

15 x Chaos Warriors

40 x Chaos Marauders

15 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen

1980/2000

I wonder  if I'm running too many random units and should sacrifice something for a warshrine or what. Never really done lists before @_@

[begleysm]

14 hours ago, Gistradagis said:

Seeing some Despoiler lists but people are running them with only 1 DP? Isn't that a bit of a waste? I was trying to make a list using the new StC as a core, and got something like this

I'm new to AoS but am building an StD army and this is what I've come up with so far.  It's similar to your list but fits a Warshrine in.  I'd love some feedback.

2000/2000
122 Wounds
5 drop
Despoilers

Godsworn Champions of Ruin Battalion - 180
- Chaos Lord on Karkadrak is the Hero to be able to fight in the Hero phase

Daemon Prince - 210
General
Paragon of Ruin
Hellforged Sword
Diabolic Mantle (D3 Command Points at start of game)
Khorne (for Bloodslick Ground)

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak - 250
Battalion Hero
Helm of Many Eyes (attack first)
Slaanesh

Be'Lakor - 240
Undivided (obviously)
Whispers of Chaos

Chaos Sorcerer Lord - 110
Nurgle
Mask of Darkness

5 Chaos Knights - 180
Travel with Chaos Lord on Karkadrak
Ensorcelled Weapons
Slaanesh

5 Chaos Knights - 180
Travel with Daemon Prince
Cursed Lances
Khorne

15 Chaos Warriors - 300
Hand Weapons & Shields
Nurgle

10 Marauder Horsemen - 180
Javelins & Shields
Undivided

Chaos Warshrine - 170
Undivided

Here's the plan

SETUP
- Be'Lakor takes the Marauder Horsemen
- The Chaos Sorcerer Lord takes the Chaos Warriors
- The Daemon Prince takes a block of knights
- The Chaos Lord on Karkadrak takes a block of knights

MORE OR LESS FIXED BUFFS
- The Sorcerer Lord buffs the Warriors with Daemonic Power & the Nurgle Aura
- The DP's Knights get to re-roll 1's on hit and get +1 to wound from the DP's Khorne Aura
- The Karkadrak's Knights get exploding 6's (and re-roll charge and get +1 to hit from Karkadrak's CA)
- The Marauder Horsemen & Be'Lakor don't have to worry about Battleshock from Be'Lakor's Undivided Aura
- Almost everyone hopefully gets the 6+ W/MW FNP Save from the Warshrine

MOVEMENT CONTROL
- DP uses Bloodslick Ground every turn
- Be'Lakor locks down a nasty enemy at a key time with his The Dark Master ability
- Be'Lakor slows down some horde unit with Whispers of Chaos

FLEXIBLE BUFFS
- Chaos Sorcerer lord is free to pass around Oracular Vision if anyone is in range (otherwise he can cast it on himself or use it on the Warriors if they drop below 10 models)
- Warshrine will typically cast the Undivided Prayer on the Karkadrak, Knights, Warriors, or Marauder Horsemen (depending on who needs a little umph)

GAMEPLAN
- The Warriors anchor some central objective
- Karkadrak, DP, & Be'Lakor (along with their retinues) are 3 fast, mobile, prongs
- Karkadrak team and DP team should be able to do some damage, especially Karkadrak on the charge
- Be'Lakor team should be able to harry enemies with Javelins and Feigned Flight rule

CONCERNS
- No Endless Spells (could get Darkfire Daemonrift if I pulled 5 Marauder Horsemen)
- Maybe not enough "good" Command Abilities to warrant the Diabolic Mantle?

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by begleysm

[Kurrilino]

2 hours ago, begleysm said:

I'm new to AoS but am building an StD army and this is what I've come up with so far.  It's similar to your list but fits a Warshrine in.  I'd love some feedback.

2000/2000
122 Wounds
5 drop
Despoilers

Godsworn Champions of Ruin Battalion - 180
- Chaos Lord on Karkadrak is the Hero to be able to fight in the Hero phase

Daemon Prince - 210
General
Paragon of Ruin
Hellforged Sword
Diabolic Mantle (D3 Command Points at start of game)
Khorne (for Bloodslick Ground)

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak - 250
Battalion Hero
Helm of Many Eyes (attack first)
Khorne

Be'Lakor - 240
Undivided (obviously)
Whispers of Chaos

Chaos Sorcerer Lord - 110
Nurgle
Mask of Darkness

5 Chaos Knights - 180
Travel with Chaos Lord on Karkadrak
Cursed Lances
Khorne

5 Chaos Knights - 180
Travel with Daemon Prince
Ensorcelled Weapons
Khorne

15 Chaos Warriors - 300
Hand Weapons & Shields
Nurgle

10 Marauder Horsemen - 180
Javelins & Shields
Undivided

Chaos Warshrine - 170
Undivided

Here's the plan

SETUP
- Be'Lakor takes the Marauder Horsemen
- The Chaos Sorcerer Lord takes the Chaos Warriors
- The Daemon Prince takes a block of knights
- The Chaos Lord on Karkadrak takes a block of knights

MORE OR LESS FIXED BUFFS
- The Sorcerer Lord buffs the Warriors with Daemonic Power & the Nurgle Aura
- The DP's Knights get to re-roll 1's on hit and get +1 to wound from the DP's Khorne Aura
- The Karkadrak's Knights get to re-roll 1's on hit (and re-roll charge and get +1 to hit from Karkadrak's CA)
- The Marauder Horsemen & Be'Lakor don't have to worry about Battleshock from Be'Lakor's Undivided Aura
- Almost everyone hopefully gets the 6+ W/MW FNP Save from the Warshrine

MOVEMENT CONTROL
- DP uses Bloodslick Ground every turn
- Be'Lakor locks down a nasty enemy at a key time with his The Dark Master ability
- Be'Lakor slows down some horde unit with Whispers of Chaos

FLEXIBLE BUFFS
- Chaos Sorcerer lord is free to pass around Oracular Vision if anyone is in range (otherwise he can cast it on himself or use it on the Warriors if they drop below 10 models)
- Warshrine will typically cast the Undivided Prayer on the Karkadrak, Knights, Warriors, or Marauder Horsemen (depending on who needs a little umph)

GAMEPLAN
- The Warriors anchor some central objective
- Karkadrak, DP, & Be'Lakor (along with their retinues) are 3 fast, mobile, prongs
- Karkadrak team and DP team should be able to do some damage, especially Karkadrak on the charge
- Be'Lakor team should be able to harry enemies with Javelins and Feigned Flight rule

CONCERNS
- No Endless Spells (could get Darkfire Daemonrift if I pulled 5 Marauder Horsemen)
- Maybe not enough "good" Command Abilities to warrant the Diabolic Mantle?

 

 

 

My 2 cents if you are interested and this is only my opinion.

DP and Belakor are useless as it gets.  Especially Belakor with his random roll 1 time per game ability.  We are talking 450 points here.

For any reason Despoiler are played more efficient without their "core pieces" The only reason to play Despoilers is the Diabolic Mantle.

You also invested in Ruinbringer without maximizing the return for the investment.

If we trade the DP and Belakor for Knights or Chariots we get a way better return.

As example we could get 10 Knights and a Chaos Lord who has by far the best command ability. Charging  10 Lances Knights with "Knights of Chaos"

and "Spurred by the Gods" means 40 attacks -2 rend and max 80 wounds plus charging mortal wounds. Now the Sorcerer with reroll hits and wounds says "Hi"

This will steamroll any unit in this game.

And while we are Nurgle, why not bringing the Harbinger and Lord of Flies to make the warriors really annoying but hey we have command points to spend.

And all that guaranteed without random shenanigans.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

 

[NJohansson]

19 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:

DP and Belakor are useless as it gets.  Especially Belakor with his random roll 1 time per game ability.  We are talking 450 points here.

 

I think you have a lot of valid reasoning in you answer but you are being to harsh on the princes. With the despoiler rules and command ability/ethereal amulet the DP gets really tanky (especially if you throw in a sorcerer with the Reroll ability). If Khorne it will also have an insane command ability for control. Be’lakor is a beast - depending on the right build. 2 cast/dispel, goodish attack profile, build in ethereal amulet, great spell and possibly game changing ability (put it on the Heavy hitter of the enemy) and activate it in a turn when it is about to engage - succeeding with 5+ to move, 5+ to charge and 5+ to attack is more or less a fail every time.
A DP, Be’lakor and a sorcerer (preferably on a manticore - but the points do not alleyways allow for it) is certainly a staple in a Despoiler army from my point of view.