AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Gibs]

26 minutes ago, CJPT said:

Earlier today I posted a comparison of the old and new chaos warrior sculpts in the previous thread. I've since painted both of those models and I figured people might be curious to see how the two sculpts look next to each other. The main change I made, as I wrote previously, was to use one of the new spare heads on the old model - the old helmets are much bigger than the new ones, which makes the proportions look pretty inconsistent. Otherwise, they're about the same size.

Nice!

Any chance of the same shot from the rear? 

[Charleston]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Enough of this nurgle chat! Khorne list ideas! Go!

The more I look into the book, the more I have the feeling that gameplaywise each god has his own tactical advantages. Khorne is quite about output reliability. While the "Reroll 1's to hit" looks bad, especially when using Chaos Warriors with 2 Hand Weapons, it is actually a quite good when you go the elite path with less models.

Especially Despoilers don´t like Nurgle as much, as the +1D doesn´t proc that often, the -1 to hit can be obtained as a trait, and the general idea behind Despoilers is to kill before taking too much damage.

Khorne on the other hand provides a more reliable output, which is essential for such expensive monsters. Look at a DP with an Axe: 3+/3+ -2 D2 is quite a nice profile, yet nothing to brag about. On Charge it goes up to 2+/3+. With Khorne, the 2+ to hit is rerollable, which means a 1/36 chance to miss per hit. Also, with Khorne the DP wounds on a 2+ when close to the general ("close" in Despoiler terms is 18" btw). This is just amazing how much happens due to this buff here. The sword also profits a lot.

Bloodslick Ground allows you to keep your enemies at bay on their turn, so charges don´t get off so easy. Despoilers love this, as they punch harder when they strike first (Lord on Manticore with lance, DP´s getting +1 to hit on charge etc).

An example of a list is in my post above, the first of the two lists. Two DP´s, a Lord on Manticore, a Lord of Chaos, some marginal Battlelines. The list may be 1500pts but is a beginning.

If you want to go more into hordes, Khorne is fine too. Marauders love the reroll and also love the bonus attacks that an allied Bloodsecrator or Unit of Wrathmongers can provide. +1A on a DP is not Worth it, but 40 more Attacks on a Marauder-squad? Thats something worth talking about. Also, Bloodstroker can make your Marauders even faster and provide a full reroll for wound rolls, which allows your general to take a nap or do something more important elsewhere.

For Cavalery Lists, which won´t be too competetive I guess, Mighty Skullcrushers are a nice unit. 6 can be allied in 2k games and can be utilised as a nice hammer. Their 3+/3+ profile also adores the rerolls and +1 to wound provided. It´s a shame that they can´t profit from a Sorcerer Lord.

[calcysimon]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Enough of this nurgle chat! Khorne list ideas! Go!

Lord on karkadrak buffed with 2 extra attacks x weapon with wrathmongers and bloodsecrator as allies

even chaos warriors, chaos knights with spears and marauders benefit a lot from them 

[CJPT]

14 minutes ago, Gibs said:

Nice!

Any chance of the same shot from the rear? 

Sure!

[TheVenerableBede]

3 hours ago, Gibs said:

Honestly, I think it will depend on how powerful the list becomes. The fact it’s limited to melee weapons only makes it not universally amazing.

If it’s over the top broken then I think they will make it so the ability won’t stack or make it for your combat phase only. 

However, changes are not necessary on Day 2 and the book as a whole right now just looks ‘fair’ so a little cheese isn’t a bad thing of it means the army can compete at tournaments. 

If you're talking about the Nurgle DP's ability to allow a unit to reflect back D3 mortal wounds, it's not limited to melee attacks as far as I can see on the wording of the warscroll.

I don't see why everyone's convinced this will be FAQ'd.  This kind of OTT ability is exactly where AoS is right now.  Is it any filthier than some of the things you can do with CoS, Fyreslayers, Slaanesh etc?  Just taking Fyreslayers as an example, if they're running 2 or more blocks of HGBs, have a Lords of the Lodge battalion (or two) and you play Duality of Death and they take first turn, that's an auto-win for them top of Turn 1.  So I don't see why the DP's ability should get FAQ'd, it just gives Nurgle S2D a little helping hand in the current meta.

[Zappgrot]

I was wondering now that they changed the wording of the makrs. Does this mean you can play units whit a mark useing that god's battle tome. Like useing khorne marked units to build a blades of khorne army? 

[Xasz]

11 minutes ago, Zappgrot said:

Like useing khorne marked units to build a blades of khorne army? 

You could always do this.

[EMMachine]

18 minutes ago, Zappgrot said:

I was wondering now that they changed the wording of the makrs. Does this mean you can play units whit a mark useing that god's battle tome. Like useing khorne marked units to build a blades of khorne army? 

You could have done this before this Battletome. That's the reason since 2017, why the God Battletomes have Artefacts and Command Traits for "Mortal Khorne" Heroes next to "Bloodbound"Heroes , "Mortal Tzeentch" Heroes next to "Arcanite" Heroes and "Mortal Nurgle" models next to "Rotbringer" Heroes. "Mortal <Godkeyword> Hero" was basicly a synonym for "Slaves to Darkness Hero with the Godkeyword" since the beginning.

The only new thing is that Varanguard now has the the rule with marks too, so they can uncluded into the god army too instead of being an ally.

Edited December 15, 2019 by EMMachine

[Zappgrot]

5 minutes ago, Xasz said:

You could always do this.

You could?  How? The old rules for marks made you mark them when you deploy them.  When do you build army list in aos ccording to the rules  when you deploy? 

[Sinfullyvannila]

4 minutes ago, Zappgrot said:

You could?  How? The old rules for marks made you mark them when you deploy them.  When do you build army list in aos ccording to the rules  when you deploy? 

I don’t recall the old wording of the Mark ability, but I do remember Varanguard had a similar ability that was distinctly designed to give the keyword during the battle. I’m guessing there was some official clarification along the way since people have been using marked slaves units without it being cried foul.

[Smooth criminal]

1 hour ago, Zappgrot said:

You could?  How? The old rules for marks made you mark them when you deploy them.  When do you build army list in aos ccording to the rules  when you deploy? 

Some faq clarified that "on deploy" stuff counted as native.

Doesn't matter now anyway.

[Smooth criminal]

4 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Enough of this nurgle chat! Khorne list ideas! Go!

Khorne aura is worse on generic hero, but better on general. To have better coverage with general aura take Ravagers or Despoilers with bigger aura trait.

Ally bloodsecrator and wrathmongers.

[mmimzie]

I wonder how do slaves to darkness auras work with  heros with no marks. Like darkoath chieftans and warqueens. The aura ability says all heros have an aura, but they have no access to any of the marks. I assume they don't have an aura? 

[Seraphina of the Seraphim]

It seems Nurgle and/or Khorne are the standouts for the book, but as a mainly narrative player(who has no idea how math hammer or tactics work) Is there anyway to make a viable Undivided list? Doesn't need to be all Undivided, just a bulk of it. Thanks in advance! 

[Gibs]

35 minutes ago, Seraphina of the Seraphim said:

It seems Nurgle and/or Khorne are the standouts for the book, but as a mainly narrative player(who has no idea how math hammer or tactics work) Is there anyway to make a viable Undivided list? Doesn't need to be all Undivided, just a bulk of it. Thanks in advance! 

What do you mean by make it work?

Undivided is no different to any other mark so unless you are taking a Mark specific battalion then anything goes.

Do you mean competitive to the point it’s tournament viable?

If so we are a few days in, most ideas are just theory. However, in my limited experience with tournaments I am not seeing anything cheesy that can be done with undivided but it’s early days. 
 

Nurgle is the only obvious option that has the smell of cheese about it. Without extensive testing that fact you can basically reflect damage back onto the attacking unit feels strong, especially when you can field pretty resilient units. 

khorne obviously wants to stack buffs and alpha strike with access to another book of allied units to boot. It has all the ingredients of a powerful list. 
 

Outside of running the big man in a hedonites list, at least on first glance there isn’t much overlap between the books tactics due to the power of depravity points and it’s combination with the KoS. The Slannesh mark looks good but does it have any cheese, maybe? I am just not seeing how it begins to rival Hedonites. 

Undvided, it makes your units a fraction more resilient so what? 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Gibs

[Sinfullyvannila]

39 minutes ago, Seraphina of the Seraphim said:

It seems Nurgle and/or Khorne are the standouts for the book, but as a mainly narrative player(who has no idea how math hammer or tactics work) Is there anyway to make a viable Undivided list? Doesn't need to be all Undivided, just a bulk of it. Thanks in advance! 

Can you tell me what the advantages of Khorne are over Slaanesh? Slaanesh basic Mark should be out damaging khorne General Mark once any buff comes into play.

[tamthethird]

Tried mixing some parts between old and new last evening. It takes a bit of work and not all of the poses support weapon swaps like this one (shield attached to the body), but the size and style of the weapons are an exact match. I’ve gone for a mix of old and new and a mix of shields and dual wielding in my unit. 😎

[Kasper]

9 hours ago, TheVenerableBede said:

If you're talking about the Nurgle DP's ability to allow a unit to reflect back D3 mortal wounds, it's not limited to melee attacks as far as I can see on the wording of the warscroll.

I don't see why everyone's convinced this will be FAQ'd.  This kind of OTT ability is exactly where AoS is right now.  Is it any filthier than some of the things you can do with CoS, Fyreslayers, Slaanesh etc?  Just taking Fyreslayers as an example, if they're running 2 or more blocks of HGBs, have a Lords of the Lodge battalion (or two) and you play Duality of Death and they take first turn, that's an auto-win for them top of Turn 1.  So I don't see why the DP's ability should get FAQ'd, it just gives Nurgle S2D a little helping hand in the current meta.

Because Megabosses from the Orruk Warclans had a similar reflect ability that was FAQ'd. It read as any unmodified save of 6 would return 1 MW to the attacker. This was FAQ'd to only be reflected to attacks made by melee weapons.

I know a lot of fluff can be questionable, but it is absurd for something to shoot 30" away only to randomly die due to blisters popping on the enemy?

[BaronBanana]

So here's the list I want to run in casual play with my friends who are also fairly casual

 

Archaon

Varanguard x3

-Ensorcelled Weapons

-Sixth and Eighth Circles

Iron Golems x2

 

Maybe one of the endless spells, but I have always enjoyed playing Archaon in WHFB even if he was horrendously over costed.  Varanguard just seen like fun and iron Golems can be teleported onto objectives.  It's probably not good, but I've been starting to look at Archaon led Cabalists as well

[Zappgrot]

2 hours ago, Seraphina of the Seraphim said:

It seems Nurgle and/or Khorne are the standouts for the book, but as a mainly narrative player(who has no idea how math hammer or tactics work) Is there anyway to make a viable Undivided list? Doesn't need to be all Undivided, just a bulk of it. Thanks in advance! 

Undivided makes you units immune to battle shock. That is actually really good for armies that  plan to swarm the board whit models   And hold the objectives trough sheer number of bodies.  The book can build list like that whit marauders or marauder horsemen-  Sadly the marauder models are really ugly. 

[SpiritofHokuto]

At the very least it'll be FAQ'ed to work vs melee only and that a unit can only benefit from it once per turn, if not being only able to be used once per turn as per the Khorne & Slaanesh ones. 

[Graftonianman]

15 hours ago, Gibs said:

 

”A unit of Chaos Warriors has any number of models, each armed with one of the following options.....”
 

“Each” references “a unit” and not “models”. Not the best choice of wording, but this is GW. Units get one weapon option. 

[Graftonianman]

14 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Enough of this nurgle chat! Khorne list ideas! Go!

Khorne general with Helm of Many Eyes in the bloodmarked warband. You give your big knight unit +1A, to wound and hit! 

[Benkei]

32 minutes ago, Graftonianman said:

“Each” references “a unit” and not “models”. Not the best choice of wording, but this is GW. Units get one weapon option. 

I dont see how you can possibly read it that way, it's pretty clear it refers to the "models" mentioned immediately before the "each", you cant apply "each" to "unit" as its singular

[PALFORLIFE]

14 hours ago, Gibs said:

Thinking of testing this list:

Despoilers

Plaugetouched battalion + friends

Be’lakor

Chaos Sorcerer 

Daemon Prince

Daemon Prince

Chaos Warriors x3

Soul Grinder x2

Haven quite nailed it down any suggestions? 

 

 

 

 

Drop Belakor take more princes and soul grinders.

I'm at 4 of each with 15 warriors all Khorne.. no los to you, you move and shoot run around black chasm terrain playing LoS games to your back lines. Take art to give you reroll hit and wounds vs a hero monster to obliterate their biggest threat. And free D3 move of 5 inch before game. This list bangs.