AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Grimrock]

3 hours ago, Eldarain said:

Needs either him or Daemonic Mount for the Battalion.

Yeah I've been wrestling between the two. I settled on the karkadrak because I like the model a little more and the extra mortal wounds on the charge seems to match a little better with the battalion. Saving the 80 points could be interesting, if I dropped the extra command point I might be able to work something else in but I'm not sure what.

[JackStreicher]

2 hours ago, Gibs said:

Not sure that you actually take 3 units of Varanguard in a competitive list though?

Archaon

Sorcerer

Varanguard 3

Varanguard 3

Chaos Warriors 20

Maurader Horsemen 5

That is 2000 points

 

Switching the warriors to 5-10 and instead adding 40 Marauders should work.

[Kurrilino]

4 hours ago, Gibs said:

Not sure that you actually take 3 units of Varanguard in a competitive list though?

Archaon

Sorcerer

Varanguard 3

Varanguard 3

Chaos Warriors 20

Maurader Horsemen 5

That is 2000 points

 

There is no battalion or synergy or anyhting. I guess this list won't win many games since it doesn't address that we can't cap.

Sure the warriors are fine but the rest just runs around in berserk mode

 

[Kramer]

12 hours ago, Grimrock said:

I agree, but he does have a decent chance at killing most heroes in one round so I think that's his  goal. The general DP in a despoilers list is surprisingly useful for this. The extra 5+ save and d3 heal actually makes him pretty tanky, so he can happily crash into almost any foot hero and be able to survive the retribution from surrounding units. The 12" move, flight, and small base also make him decent at line hopping and targeting backline support  if you roll decent on your charge.

I think I've settled on a list for the time being, but there are so many options in this book I'm never really sure which way I want to go. The flexibility in the trait/artifact list in Despoilers is quite intriguing. Bonus move to set up buff auras or threaten objectives, bonus command points, and the Doombringer Blade is great for late game targets when you've moved out of your auras or they've died. I'd love to squeeze in another monster or two but I just can't figure out a good way to do it without sacrificing too much hitting power. I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on it. 

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Despoilers

Leaders
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- General
- Sword
- Trait: Paragon of Ruin
- Artefact: Diabolic Mantle
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)
- Artefact: Doombringer Blade
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Lord (110)
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
- Spell: Binding Damnation

Battleline
10 x Chaos Knights (360)
- Cursed Lance
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
1 x Chaos Chariots (120)
- Greatblades
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
40 x Chaos Marauders (300)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battalions
Ruinbringer Warband (140)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 137

Hey! You’re going the same route as me! For me I just doubled down on the impact hits from the battalion. So three chariots and knights + daemon steed mounted lord in the battalion. Daemonettes in a second wave.  Units of warriors to hold And tank objectives (actually want to fit in more but I just don’t know what to drop). For support daemon Prince and sorcerer Lord. 
 

- whats your plan for the Lord om foot? 
- I was thinking about the guant summoner to have a sorceress to keep up with your fast list and have an anti horde option. What’s your opinion? 
- Lord on kharadrak also gives impact hits is a good call  I might follow your lead on that one

- Im going Slaanesh for the theme but I’m interested to hear if you thought about that as well? Because that re-roll to charge aura can be so important. 

see the list in the pictures (couldn’t add daemonettes for some reason in the warscroll builder. Should be 30 woman unit in there.) leaving me with 130 I’m just not sure what to do with  

[Smooth criminal]

13 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

I am aware of all the buffs. But if i calculate buffs into the equation i also have to consider the points.

Archaon and 3 Varanguard are 1100 points for 26 wounds. This is madness.

Archaon and 3x3 Varanguard are needed fo full potential. This is 1700 points and no way to cap an objective.

How people intend to win here is far beyond me

Even in archaon+3x3 varanguard list you can take 2x20 marauders for objectives. You can drop 1 varanguard unit for 40 more if you want.

Don't forget marauders will also be fearless and get khorne buff from Archaon making them 2x 3+/3+/-/1 per dude. Given their 6"move and +1 run they can cap in any scenario turn 1.

You are naturally 6 drop, can go 5 just because everything costs a lot, that's on okay level. You don't need battalion for artifact or cp because Archaon takes care of all that.

Archaon is the only linchpin of the list and list falls apart without him, but he's also one of the hardest to kill models in the game.

It's solid.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Smooth criminal

[Reisyo]

Dont you guys think that a Chaos sorcerer Lord for Save rerolls with archaon should be Core? Also a Lord on foot for another archaon activation + a Bloodsecrator for the Deathball.

smth like:

archaon - khorne

2x3 varanguard - khorne

bloodsecrator

lord

sorc lord

leaves 260 for screen /obj grab

a Lot of drops tho - thoughts?

Also you Could 1drop archaon with the slaanesh batallion 2x3 varanguard 1 sorc Lord and 3x5 marauder horsemen

Edited December 25, 2019 by Reisyo

[Grimrock]

9 hours ago, Kramer said:

Hey! You’re going the same route as me! For me I just doubled down on the impact hits from the battalion. So three chariots and knights + daemon steed mounted lord in the battalion. Daemonettes in a second wave.  Units of warriors to hold And tank objectives (actually want to fit in more but I just don’t know what to drop). For support daemon Prince and sorcerer Lord. 
 

- whats your plan for the Lord om foot? 
- I was thinking about the guant summoner to have a sorceress to keep up with your fast list and have an anti horde option. What’s your opinion? 
- Lord on kharadrak also gives impact hits is a good call  I might follow your lead on that one

- Im going Slaanesh for the theme but I’m interested to hear if you thought about that as well? Because that re-roll to charge aura can be so important. 

1. The goal for the lord on foot is to chase after a unit and try to get them to attack twice on something that really needs to die. It's a little tricky to do with knights, but the pre-game 5" movement can help if needed. I did a practice game and double tapping a unit of knights that multi charged some units (and attacked more units behind them with the lances) utterly gutted my opponents army, so there's merit at least. He's also a decent fighter and something I can just throw at objectives if needed. That said he's definitely not required for the army and is tricky to use, but I'm not sure what to replace him with. 
2. I'm not sure on the gaunt summoner. The summoning and movement to set up short range spells would be nice but he's really expensive for being so squishy and lacking any bonuses for casting. I think he'll be good in a Cabal army but  I'd rather just run a sorcerer on manticore for Ravagers or Despoilers.
3. He really does do some impressive damage, but he's a lot of points too. If you decide to try both let us know how they work out. I'm interested to hear how the lord on mount works too.
4. I think I've settled on Khorne for the moment mainly because of the daemon prince. I want him to have one of the two really good command abilities (Nurgle and Khorne IMO, but I'm waiting to see if Nurgle actually sticks around), and since he's the general for a despoilers army everything just sorta follows suit. The Khorne aura is pretty solid as well so that helps. I do like the Slaanesh command ability, but it seems particularly difficult to set up in your list. You need to charge with two units and then hope your opponent attacks the second unit hard enough to trigger the bonus attack. If you throw in some chariots at the same time he can just attack those instead and you're unlikely to get the bonus. 

 

9 hours ago, Kramer said:

see the list in the pictures (couldn’t add daemonettes for some reason in the warscroll builder. Should be 30 woman unit in there.) leaving me with 130 I’m just not sure what to do with  

I think you might have issues getting work out of daemonettes in this army. I love running them in slaanesh, but missing out on the attack twice command ability and the extra hits on sixes really removes their biggest strengths. Hitting/wounding on 4's with no buffs really, really hurts haha. As a thought if you dropped them you could put 5 more warriors into each unit (to help keep the reroll saves around for longer) and then you're up to 230 spare points. Swap one chariot for marauder horsemen (more bodies now that you dropped the daemonettes) and you're at 260 which  is plenty of room to put some monsters in. 

[CeleFAZE]

I have to second that, daemonettes outside of Slaanesh allegiance are a hard sell, especially in a army where you have the option of marauders.

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Grimrock said:

1. The goal for the lord on foot is to chase after a unit and try to get them to attack twice on something that really needs to die. It's a little tricky to do with knights, but the pre-game 5" movement can help if needed. I did a practice game and double tapping a unit of knights that multi charged some units (and attacked more units behind them with the lances) utterly gutted my opponents army, so there's merit at least. He's also a decent fighter and something I can just throw at objectives if needed. That said he's definitely not required for the army and is tricky to use, but I'm not sure what to replace him with. 
2. I'm not sure on the gaunt summoner. The summoning and movement to set up short range spells would be nice but he's really expensive for being so squishy and lacking any bonuses for casting. I think he'll be good in a Cabal army but  I'd rather just run a sorcerer on manticore for Ravagers or Despoilers.
3. He really does do some impressive damage, but he's a lot of points too. If you decide to try both let us know how they work out. I'm interested to hear how the lord on mount works too.
4. I think I've settled on Khorne for the moment mainly because of the daemon prince. I want him to have one of the two really good command abilities (Nurgle and Khorne IMO, but I'm waiting to see if Nurgle actually sticks around), and since he's the general for a despoilers army everything just sorta follows suit. The Khorne aura is pretty solid as well so that helps. I do like the Slaanesh command ability, but it seems particularly difficult to set up in your list. You need to charge with two units and then hope your opponent attacks the second unit hard enough to trigger the bonus attack. If you throw in some chariots at the same time he can just attack those instead and you're unlikely to get the bonus. 

 

I think you might have issues getting work out of daemonettes in this army. I love running them in slaanesh, but missing out on the attack twice command ability and the extra hits on sixes really removes their biggest strengths. Hitting/wounding on 4's with no buffs really, really hurts haha. As a thought if you dropped them you could put 5 more warriors into each unit (to help keep the reroll saves around for longer) and then you're up to 230 spare points. Swap one chariot for marauder horsemen (more bodies now that you dropped the daemonettes) and you're at 260 which  is plenty of room to put some monsters in. 

1. Great to hear. Must be situational to pull it of but I can see how it can be game changing. I’ll definitely try it out. 
2. yeah he is squishy. 
3. Will do. 
4. I agree the command ability is not why you choose slaanesh. But the reroll charges is always so valuable. 
5. yeah daemonettes will need the general to be within aura range but as they are second wave (as those things divide themselves in my head) it shouldn’t be the biggest challenge. But yes there are probably other option but they are needed in some form to fit the conversion theme. That limit is on me, but it’s nice to get the rest right before I start converting   Also answer to @CeleFAZE.

i started an daemon and mortal tied together Slaanesh army in 2017 that I’m very slowly and heavily converting on the side of every other project. Based on my nostalgia models. The Slaanesh heroes, the spiky chariots, the old daemonettes etc. Again those are my limitations but it’s nice to know if little things will make it better so it will actually play okay  

 

 

[Olmdebil]

While painting the Big Boy. ...are there any competativ Lists with him out yet?;)

[misthv]

What do you guys think—Varanguards x3 outside of Hosts, is this just madness from points efficiency? 

[Kurrilino]

2 hours ago, misthv said:

What do you guys think—Varanguards x3 outside of Hosts, is this just madness from points efficiency? 

Man, i was under the impression their spears do 3 damage. But they just do 2.

They are absolutely inferior to 5 knights, not to mention you almost get 10 Knights.

[Kurrilino]

5 Knights vs 3 Varanguard vanilla lance charge

10 Knights vs 3 Varanguard vanilla lance charge

Edited December 27, 2019 by Kurrilino

[Smooth criminal]

2 hours ago, misthv said:

What do you guys think—Varanguards x3 outside of Hosts, is this just madness from points efficiency? 

I think they are fine if you take the battalion that gives them circle for damage.

They allow you to skip on taking the chaos lord for double fight and use CP for something else, for example nurgle DP ability to blow stuff up.

[Asamu]

1 hour ago, Kurrilino said:

5 Knights vs 3 Varanguard vanilla lance charge

10 Knights vs 3 Varanguard vanilla lance charge

Knight lances hit on a 4+. All of their numbers should be 3/4 of what you have them.

That said, yeah, Varanguard aren't great outside of the Everchosen sub-faction, and are pretty awful compared with knights, which also aren't spectacular (though aren't terrible), and they get less out of buffs.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Asamu

[Kurrilino]

2 hours ago, Asamu said:

Knight lances hit on a 4+. All of their numbers should be 3/4 of what you have them.

That said, yeah, Varanguard aren't great outside of the Everchosen sub-faction, and are pretty awful compared with knights, which also aren't spectacular (though aren't terrible), and they get less out of buffs.

Lord on demonic mount let them hit 3+

 

[Asamu]

28 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:

Lord on demonic mount let them hit 3+

Yeah, but that requires a CP, which won't always be available for them, and there are better uses of a CP for output, like the chaos lord letting them fight twice. Doesn't seem appropriate to compare buffed knights to unbuffed Varanguard. You also listed the graphs as "vanilla", which implies no buffs for either unit.

[Beltrajor]

One question.

Does 6th circle damage boost aply to varanguard's steeds?

[Eldarain]

1 hour ago, Beltrajor said:

One question.

Does 6th circle damage boost aply to varanguard's steeds?

Seems that way to me.

[TriCs]

2 hours ago, Beltrajor said:

One question.

Does 6th circle damage boost aply to varanguard's steeds?

Yes as it's an allegiance ability.

[Beltrajor]

Looks even nicer

 

[JackStreicher]

Varanguard are okay if you use the ensorcelled weapons but they feel like being priced for Archaons host only. Imo they should always get to choose from the circles.

I‘d rather get a War Mannoth for 320 pts

[GeneralZero]

3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

I‘d rather get a War Mannoth for 320 pts

...I'd rather get it in real life 😉   I can't find it (legally 😎)

BTW, it is not in the BT and I'm worrying if it's legal in game as the points cost hasn't been touched since the new BT is out.

[Forrix]

3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Varanguard are okay if you use the ensorcelled weapons but they feel like being priced for Archaons host only. Imo they should always get to choose from the circles.

Yup, I'm okay with them only getting +1 hit when Archaon is around just because its so easy to get reroll hits/wounds but they feel lacking without the circles.

 

[kenshin620]

3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

 but they feel like being priced for Archaons host only. Imo they should always get to choose from the circles.

I think that is issue, it's sort of like Blood Knights in LoN. They get specific bonuses for being in Legion of Blood or Soulblight, but aren't really seen outside those two.