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Starcast - The Thread


Turragor
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1 hour ago, Maturin said:

Also, it's worth letting your opponent attack your drake first (depending on what you face) because once he has done it, and you eat up some of his models, he can't move to gain his unit's coherence back. bye bye half of unit.

Always this!

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1 minute ago, SleeperAgent said:

@Turragor since you seem to play it the most you probably got the answer. When you use Lord Castellants ability on the Stardrake do you heal the wounds after they've been deal in that combat or can you only heal wounds it already had and THEN apply the damage for that combat?

Second option.

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33 minutes ago, SleeperAgent said:

@Turragor since you seem to play it the most you probably got the answer. When you use Lord Castellants ability on the Stardrake do you heal the wounds after they've been deal in that combat or can you only heal wounds it already had and THEN apply the damage for that combat?

Rules clearly state that wounds are allocated after all attacks have been resolved. So in the first round of combat - if the drake is full health - there a no wounds to be healed. 
 

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It works in our favour too. For example I faced hallowheart with 30 sisters of the watch and the drake had 3 wounds left facing 25 or so sisters, they shot in and did 6 mortals which my opponent felt did the job, but I informed him he needed to resolve all to see what wounds I healed back  

Healed back 10 or so and reflected (was in combat with other units) 6 mws killing his hurricanum and some other models. 

Edited by Turragor
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Just had a game, lower points of 1350 and just went for it and brought a celestant on drake, 2x2 concussors, castellant and 2x5 liberators + CP.

Faced of against a bloodgullet Ogor army with just about twice the wound count, 2 butchers, 12 gluttons, 2x4 ironguts and 4 leadbelchers.

In most scenarios I would be hard pressed here, the board presence and model count would be imposible but we rolled 3 places of power.

I took turn 1 and placed the dragon right in the center, then chose to bunker up all my other units around it basically, using a unit of 5 liberators from the sky to screen the 12 man glutton unit with 1 unit of concussors behind, my plan being to sacrifice the libs to the MW from the coming ogor charge, then activate my concussors and get some hits in for "free". 

This worked perfectly, long story short I managed to nearly table him by the bottom of round 2, which I did not expect at all, but the scenario was very much in my favor, especially after I killed 1 of his heroes, even though he managed to snipe my castellant with the d6 mortal wound spell and rolling a 6. Even 12 gluttons with 0 rend does nothing to 2+ reroll 1s saves on the concussors wittled down that unit by themselves loosing only 2 wounds total... 

The dragon managed to eat 3 ironguts in total, while only dropping 4 wounds from some spells. Being able to bunker up was so effective but I doubt that will work out as well in many other scenarios.

While on paper I first thought the dragon was rather meh, and concussors way overpriced, they have managed to pull of some stunts for me over a few games now after getting this army. Although much of this is down to staunch defender and is a bit cheesy perhaps. It also requires some rather conservative play and does not allow for much skirmishing like that.

I really do like concussors though and think their blast to ashes is rather underrated, as it helps them be more aggressive, you can do witout staunch defender on the charge as long as you get 1 6 to hit, the opponent cant pile in at all which can be massive.

Anyway I am looking at expanding to a 2k list, and considered something like this:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Incantor (140)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
4 x Concussors (480)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 85

 

Very low wound count and model count for objectives, but hopefully enough MW output to really hit where it hurts when it needs to. Might prioritize the castellant for the concussors and I will then have 2 massive threats to cover a bit more ground, they will be missing some stacking save benefits though, but allow the list to center less on 1 point if needed and still be rather tough.

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Now you're down to m my kind of wound and model count ^^

You're near to the kind of list I was running before focusing on the chip mw strat. It's in my sig with a rub down on THWG - the dr stardrake love list. 

I considered concussors and I think you make good points about their benefits. I'll revisit the list in the future I think with the extra pts from the stardrake reduction 

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I am pondering quite a big change based on my experiences with the comet and 1 caster (you get max 2 casts per game - and to do so you sacrifice 3 rounds of  spells) and the idea that shooting is returning to the meta:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Chain Lightning
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Protectors (180)
- 2x Starsoul Maces

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96

What I gain:  more wounds, more bodies, an extra melee punch and a unit that can help against aggressive melee monster lists (4 stonehorns, 2 GKoTGs) that I don't fancy meeting. It also provides cover against shooting where I can't setup within terrain (discount drakes here) in addition to staunch.

What I lose out on is one extra v long range  average of 1.5 mws to bunker targets. HOWEVER, the comet is stronk. It's a 10" bubble. It's (with proper setup) never going to be unbound. It messes with opponents casting (albeit, just -1). It's an extra psychological worry.

I am not sure if it's better but its interesting.

 

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Comet is indeed strong, when it goes off and you're not unbound. It does complement well the theme of the list which is : I'm going to slowly MW away, starting with your precious heroes!

Protectors, although I really like them in Skyborne slayers, are very slow, and they don't really fit in the theme. They could be useful as you said, when you're bunkered up turn 1 and are preparing yourselfto withstand a charge.

Edited by Maturin
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1 hour ago, Maturin said:

Comet is indeed strong, when it goes off and you're not unbound. It does complement well the theme of the list which is : I'm going to slowly MW away, starting with your precious heroes!

Protectors, although I really like them in Skyborne slayers, are very slow, and they don't really fit in the theme. They could be useful as you said, when you're bunkered up turn 1 and are preparing yourselfto withstand a charge.

Yeh I mean I want to try it out but it does take away from the purity of long range mw that I like 

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[Redacted thoughts about Prime's Scepter]

For those curious, the list that I'm taking to my next tournament (Saturday 25th) needs tweaked. Rules pack is disallowing realm artefacts.

Leaning towards Armour of Destiny, unless I use this opportunity to take a Stormhost (but then I lose Staunch).

Thoughts?

 

Edited by Turragor
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11 hours ago, Turragor said:

Leaning towards Armour of Destiny, unless I use this opportunity to take a Stormhost (but then I lose Staunch).

Thoughts?

 

If I was to choose between sce armors, I'take the one giving -2 to hit for missile attacks. Without Ignax scale, a drake could die to 20 Sotw shooting twice, a Hurricanum's shooting etc. My 2 cents. 

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7 minutes ago, Maturin said:

If I was to choose between sce armors, I'take the one giving -2 to hit for missile attacks. Without Ignax scale, a drake could die to 20 Sotw shooting twice, a Hurricanum's shooting etc. My 2 cents. 

That was my other choice. I think it might be a good call.

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5 hours ago, Maturin said:

HEy @Turragor I'm starting about mixing base Starcast that is LCoSD+ castellant + Prime with my Cos Armies. There might be funny combos to make for maximum MW output!

I think there's a way to make a better list than what pure sce can, using some of the strong sc tools. I'm just trying to use sc only as cities wasn't my next army choice and I doubt I'll invest in it until its a later battletome. 

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On 1/18/2020 at 10:19 AM, Turragor said:

[Redacted thoughts about Prime's Scepter]

For those curious, the list that I'm taking to my next tournament (Saturday 25th) needs tweaked. Rules pack is disallowing realm artefacts.

Leaning towards Armour of Destiny, unless I use this opportunity to take a Stormhost (but then I lose Staunch).

Thoughts?

 

If stuck with the book choices, Obsidian amulet for 4+ ignore spells is not all that bad, although a downgrade from Ignax in many cases, but Ignax does not defend against all kinds of other spell effects though. It does not exclude friendly spells though, but that might not be so important.

I wouldnt count the drakescale as bad either on the drakesworn to reroll saves vs more than dmg 1 attacks. 

Wildcard choice could also be quicksilver potion, yes it is one use, but it forces certain plays and is not a random chance, it will most likely always have an important impact on the game.

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5 hours ago, Turragor said:

I think there's a way to make a better list than what pure sce can, using some of the strong sc tools. I'm just trying to use sc only as cities wasn't my next army choice and I doubt I'll invest in it until its a later battletome. 

I think the actual BT isn't perfect, but at least, we can have fun with our old 8th edition miniatures :).
Can I ask you here what combo do you have in mind for a Starcast COS thread, or do you rather I open another thread in the COS subforum ?

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8 hours ago, Maturin said:

I think the actual BT isn't perfect, but at least, we can have fun with our old 8th edition miniatures :).
Can I ask you here what combo do you have in mind for a Starcast COS thread, or do you rather I open another thread in the COS subforum ?

I have a relatively low level of understanding for cos tbh and more expert opinion could ve gained from cos boards.

You could still play starcast with them I guess as the sc traits, spells and artefacts (the allegiance as a whole) aren't really where starcast is made. 

I did like the idea of an emerald lifeswarm, soulscream bridge (any amplified sorcery endless spells really) and lots of the strong ranged choices, like sisters. 

I think the comet and a caster and a drake (2 if possible) are good choices. I see the prime as fragile and most cos choices as also fragile so I wonder if its too glass cannon to go that way. I've no idea though. 

I know hallowheart is popular but I think points intense if you take whitefire retinue? 

Living city is excellent and tempests eye are good 

I really have a thing for hammerhal though. Armour of mallus is good on the LCoSD (albeit worse than the living city equivalent). But I mainly like the command ability because you can attack and bite with the drake(s) a 2nd time. It doesn't say attack with the weapons it is armed with. Just attack. So you'd definitely have the option to really mess with unit coherency against even the most cautious, drake-aware opponents. 

Playing starcast as we're accustomed to, Hallowheart is probably the strongest followed up by living city then hammerhal.

Tweaks to the unit composition or main play style could lead that order to change. 

It's actually a fun side project. Maybe I'll get some cities units before the end of the year. I love the idea of a LCoSD with a spell with the tome artefact from hallowheart lol

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5 hours ago, Turragor said:

It's actually a fun side project. Maybe I'll get some cities units before the end of the year. I love the idea of a LCoSD with a spell with the tome artefact from hallowheart lol

While I think losing Stormwinged is a huge loss to the drake (my opponents hate this "gimmick") it could be fun to run a drake in the living city. With ironoak artisan for +1 save and +1 to all melee wound rolls, and spear of the hunt to strike at the start of the combat phase when charging and +1 rend on a weapon. I don't think the rain of stars count as "having shot" so a Drakesworn might need to be the general here. But you could then use a drakesworn and a unit of dracothian guards pop in from the rear, shoot and use a CP to then move and have short charges. The drake strikes first in combat, then you choose the dracothians after, before the opponent gets to hit.

I don't know if that is super competetive, but the sheer fun of "OMG dragon attack from behind!" has some fun value I think! Pepper in freeguild battleline:

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Freeguild General (100)
- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
Battlemage (90)
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- General
- Arc Hammer
- Trait: Ironoak Artisan
- Artefact: Spear of the Hunt
40 x Freeguild Guard (280)
- Halberds and Shields
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
4 x Concussors (480)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127

It might be bonkers, but being able to wedge the enemy between angry dragon riders and a line of free people with a lot of guns and swords, along with some magic could work I think, if not for tournaments I think it has some bite for a fun example list.

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