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Turragor

Starcast - The Thread

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, XcaliburNick said:

That list seems really frigging cool! What’s Eltharion adding there, because it looks like a lot of fun to play and I’m very interested. Also, is that artifact lantern worth 160pts in the list? I guess it can help vs the “mortal wounds on 6+” stuff out there. 

Agreed on the lantern, not sure it is ultimately worth it -especially because it's hard to keep the big stuff instide the bubble and I plan to deepstrike 2x lib+jud on objectives anyway.

Eltharion is there for the shooting "attack" (MW on single target in 18" range). Since it's a skill and not an attack you can have him run 6" and get to 30" threat range. Together with the Prime it has a good chance of killing a 5MW target. + it brings some melee damage if you manage to get there (which is not impossible since the Prime might be a higher priority target, unfortunately :D )

Edited by Marcvs

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11 hours ago, Maturin said:

Thanks Maturin, I've got the Lumineth Battletome (and 2 sets of the boxed sprue) so it's easy to test out. I didn't realize that having the "mini Gotrek" would be a good addition for the Stormcast but it makes sense. Especially with the Battleplans that give a bonus for heroes.

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11 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Agreed on the lantern, not sure it is ultimately worth it -especially because it's hard to keep the big stuff instide the bubble and I plan to deepstrike 2x lib+jud on objectives anyway.

Eltharion is there for the shooting "attack" (MW on single target in 18" range). Since it's a skill and not an attack you can have him run 6" and get to 30" threat range. Together with the Prime it has a good chance of killing a 5MW target. + it brings some melee damage if you manage to get there (which is not impossible since the Prime might be a higher priority target, unfortunately :D )

Cool, that Shooting Mortal-wound attack is a good point. I forgot he could do that LOL. The combo of Prime + Eltharion killing a character is a good idea. He might even cause some targeting priority issues for my opponents vs the Prime heh.

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Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

The Light of Eltharion (220) - Allies
Celestant-Prime (300)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500) - Celestine Hammer
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Incantor (120)
5 x Liberators (90) - Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (90) - Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (90) - Warhammer & Shield
5 x Judicators (140) - Skybolt Bows
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120) - Allies
6 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (180) - 2x Stormsurge Tridents
Dais Arcanum (30)
Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 340 / 400 Wounds: 104

  • I know the Prosecutors are pretty much not good. My hope is that they go with the Celestant Prime or capture objectives with their fly movement. I love the models and want to paint them so I can accept sub par. :)
  • My thinking is that the Wardens have a pretty decent war scroll, and some durability. They don't get Shining Company AFAIK as allies, but still can self buff.

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This has made for a fascinating read. I've always been interested in stardrakes but they just seemed a bit rubbish, now I think I'll proxy them for a few games and see how they run.

Has anyone thought about trying them in a Lethisian Defenders army? I know their rules are considered weak, but they get access to some pretty useful prayers.

Something like this as a starting point -

Allegiance: Lethisian Defenders
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (380)
- General
- Command Trait: Raven Priest - Morrda's Embrace
- Artefact: Crown of Raven Feathers
Excelsior Warpriest (80)
- Prayer: Morrda's Resurrection
Knight-Incantor (120)
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe

Battleline
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
5 x Judicators (140)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Suffocating Gravetide (20)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 94
 

The Eidolon has excellent support spells and when making him a priest with the trait he can chuck out a re-roll 1s for saves aura with good range. The artefact keeps him alive a little longer and he can heal himself. Plus his shooting attack is reasonable and he's ok in combat. As a support piece for the drakes he seems ideal, if a little expensive, but he brings a lot of tools to the field.

The Warpriest is cheap, can resurrect, heal, deal mortal wounds, and has a hound for added backfield protection.

Even the weak Liberators get a buff from the Lethisian Defenders rules.

What do you think? Worth a go?

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2 minutes ago, SentinelGuy said:

The Warpriest is cheap, can resurrect, heal, deal mortal wounds, and has a hound for added backfield protection.

Even the weak Liberators get a buff from the Lethisian Defenders rules.

What do you think? Worth a go?

He will bring back at max 1 liberator a turn, that's not what I would call a resurrection.
Those resurrects are only good on very tough 1W models lke PG.

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1 hour ago, Maturin said:

He will bring back at max 1 liberator a turn, that's not what I would call a resurrection.
Those resurrects are only good on very tough 1W models lke PG.

Yeah, you're probably right, was just trying to fit in a model I never use. Figured with 2 healing prayers he might be worth trying.

I'll more than likely drop him for something else. Maybe cut him and the gravetide and use the points for a heraldor. Or ditch the CP as well and take a castellant. That would also give me points to upgrade the judicators to Morsarr guard.

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The warpriest cannot take an extra prayer because he doesnt get a keyword as an ally sadly. 

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8 minutes ago, Juicy said:

The warpriest cannot take an extra prayer because he doesnt get a keyword as an ally sadly. 

I thought he was part of the Lethisian Defenders list so would get the extra prayer. I don't have my copy of forbidden power with me at the moment to check.

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Damn i just read he gets the keyword. I was mistaken im sorry

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Played Kroakcast for the first time last weekend. List was: 

Lord celestant on stardrake, ignore -1 rend artifact, Staunch defender

Celestant Prime

Lord Kroak

Lord Arcanum on gryph

Lord Castellant

 

5x judicators

5x lib

5x lib

5x sequitors 

 

Everblaze comet 

 

Choose the 5 x sequitors over a Knight Incantor since I knew I was playing Ogor Mawtribes and needed something to grab objective or to guard Kroak if we rolled a battleplan where battleline hold better. Still a massive pain to try and hold objectives with this list, and Ogors counting as 2 models or 10 for the stonehorns is just.. yeah. 

I ended up tabling him T4 after raining mortals all over the place, him making a few mistakes with his positioning with gave me the chance to run my stardrake into 8x ironguts AND 12x gluttons I think it was, basically just tanking them while dealing mortals wounds. I only lost 5x liberators, the Arcanum and the gryph hound (sad) but still only won 18-16, since he ran and took all 3 objectives t1, he took the first turn, and I basically just had to kill everything to win. 

My main take away is that there is a real strategy with this list to utilize Celestant Prime’s -2 bravery when he comes down. If you roll well in your hero phase and manage to snipe a support hero while at the same time dealing a good amount of wounds to a big battleline unit, you could drop the Prime turn 1 and cast his comet for guaranteed 3 mortals, and suddenly your opponent doesn’t have a hero to command point ignore battleshock. You could have easily dealt 10 MW to a unit with Kroaks comet, the Prime comet, rain of stars, and everblaze comet. If you run judicators, that can also pick off a few. Giving a unit -2 bravery at this stage could be huge. Just something to keep in mind if you’re running your beloved angel! This obviously also works later in the game aswell, say you focus on getting of a support hero in your first turn and then start working on a big unit of something preferably with low bravery, could be a lot of fun. Could also win you an objective if you play it smart, ride the winds to the edge of an objective and then pray they run away in battleshock hehe. 

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For the nom-SCE Starcast:  A GA:Order with teclis, the kroak bundle and our favourite dragon came 3rd at a Swiss tournament.

IMG_20200913_142531.jpg

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On 9/13/2020 at 2:28 PM, Marcvs said:

For the nom-SCE Starcast:  A GA:Order with teclis, the kroak bundle and our favourite dragon came 3rd at a Swiss tournament.

IMG_20200913_142531.jpg

Love this, the Arkanaut company I've always had an eye on. How big was the tourney? What lists did the GA:order list meet?

That said, I think a reply I gave a while back still stands, a list with a bunch of new models to paint isn't going to ignite my interest when everything (hopefully) changes soon.

I think running this with 3 x 5 libs would, unfortunately, not be anywhere near as good.

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6 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Love this, the Arkanaut company I've always had an eye on. How big was the tourney? What lists did the GA:order list meet?

That said, I think a reply I gave a while back still stands, a list with a bunch of new models to paint isn't going to ignite my interest when everything (hopefully) changes soon.

I think running this with 3 x 5 libs would, unfortunately, not be anywhere near as good.

I think it was a pretty small tournament (like 15 players) so the result itself is not that relevant

and yes, I am not painting 30 arkanauts any time soon

Edited by Marcvs
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Been awhile, currently working on this.

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- General
- Arc Hammer
- Command Trait: Staunch Defender
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Lord-Castellant (120)
- Mystic Light (Artefact): Lantern of the Tempest
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Azyros (100)
Knight-Venator (110)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units
8 x Concussors (880)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107

 
 
From what I can decipher, Drakesworn Templar can take a stormbolt bow in addition to its other weapons so I wanna try to maximize that with Dracothian Guard.  The idea is to castle with everything and teleport the huge unit of concussors on a flank or weak spot and tear through the lines. At range 8 attacks hitting on 3's (thanks to bow) doing d3 mortal wounds each can usually get something out of the way or delete a key hero. Then on the charge you have a massive line than can engage 2-3 enemy units and any 6's to hit guarantees they can't pile in and get good attack value back. I am debating using Anvils of the Heldenhammer but I love the Staunch defender trait so much on my castle. Knight Venator is just filler for the 110 points I had left over. I was considering dropping him for Lord Celestant on Stardrake but then the Concussors lose the +1 to hit buff potential.
 
Side  note: Do I have to wound with the Skybolt Bow? It just says "if this model scores one or more hits".

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2 hours ago, SleeperAgent said:
From what I can decipher, Drakesworn Templar can take a stormbolt bow in addition to its other weapons so I wanna try to maximize that with Dracothian Guard.  The idea is to castle with everything and teleport the huge unit of concussors on a flank or weak spot and tear through the lines. At range 8 attacks hitting on 3's (thanks to bow) doing d3 mortal wounds each can usually get something out of the way or delete a key hero. Then on the charge you have a massive line than can engage 2-3 enemy units and any 6's to hit guarantees they can't pile in and get good attack value back. I am debating using Anvils of the Heldenhammer but I love the Staunch defender trait so much on my castle. Knight Venator is just filler for the 110 points I had left over. I was considering dropping him for Lord Celestant on Stardrake but then the Concussors lose the +1 to hit buff potential.
 
Side  note: Do I have to wound with the Skybolt Bow? It just says "if this model scores one or more hits".

Pulling off a 9" charge is quite unlikely and you don't even have access to a reroll because you don't have heroes in range (which would bring the chance of making it to 50-50). As for the drakesworn, yes you only need to score a hit, so to roll a 3+ on one dice (so you'll have this 66% of times)

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Looking at the Gargants, and fully acknlowedging that we don't know the full picture yet, it seems another army which counters a starcast build pretty easily -due to a) the huge number of wounds on each model, b) the "count as X models" rule for objectives (one mega gargant counts for more models than my whole list), c) high rend on the megas attack means that even a fully buffed stardrake will fall in 2 or 3 rounds of combat. Incidentally, they also look like yet another army which stormcast in general simply cannot engage in melee, pushing more and more towards the shooting build

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

Looking at the Gargants, and fully acknlowedging that we don't know the full picture yet, it seems another army which counters a starcast build pretty easily -due to a) the huge number of wounds on each model, b) the "count as X models" rule for objectives (one mega gargant counts for more models than my whole list), c) high rend on the megas attack means that even a fully buffed stardrake will fall in 2 or 3 rounds of combat. Incidentally, they also look like yet another army which stormcast in general simply cannot engage in melee, pushing more and more towards the shooting build

I would agree. On the one hand few factions can truly build a list that can take all comers. So matchups play a role. On the other hand, SC (and other factions ofc) are very weak against most of the new factions released this year IE the most popular armies in the meta, soooo...yeah. :P

/edit at the same time ... I would rather face the gargants than 6 stonehorns :P

Edited by Turragor

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28 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

Pulling off a 9" charge is quite unlikely and you don't even have access to a reroll because you don't have heroes in range (which would bring the chance of making it to 50-50). As for the drakesworn, yes you only need to score a hit, so to roll a 3+ on one dice (so you'll have this 66% of times)

I dont "need" to make the charge. Im just gonna teleport to the side and shoot with the 12" weapons. If I make the charge its nice, but otherwise they are going to move towards my castle and I will just flank them.

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So, I played in a 2-day tournament here in France (5 games, 40 players) and brought the 2020 KroakCast list, this:

Spoiler
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Command Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Incantor (120)
- Spell: Chain Lightning
Lord Kroak (320)
- Allies
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
3 x Aetherwings (40)
Everblaze Comet (100)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 320 / 400
Wounds: 86

tl;dr: I finished 12th with 3-2 (mv-md-mv-mv-md), losing the last game on table 3.

Now for a "short" summary (apologies for the long post!) a few pictures -of course, feel free to ask if you want more details!

Game 1, Idoneth Deepkin (eels and a turtle) in Battle for the Pass /Ghyran): I don't know about yours, but my meta is full of idoneth and eels. In this tournament there were 6 IDK lists (out of 40!). So I am quite used to play against them. The game went more or less as expected: gave initiative, screened, advanced, took the charges into the screens (twist in the tale: failed a rerollable 4" charge), lost the templar, whittled down the eels with mortals and he had nothing more on the table. Used the general to get the objective in his deployment. Major victory by a good margin

IMG_20201010_100824716.jpg.58a70d307c6e92565f5c7bc1579c2089.jpg

Game 2, Tzeentch (changehost with a big pack of 20 pinks) in Scorched Earth (Shyish). This was a battlepland which I considered as almost unwinnable due to the large number of objectives. The pairing was also bad: a strong list with a strong player (I have already faced him and lost to a similar list). It went as you can imagine: did some mortals, pink came in, shoot stuff (not the dragons), charged with destiny dices, and killed kroak thanks to a double turn (yup, with lookout sir and the command ability for +1 to save vs shooting). Major defeat by a huge margin.

IMG_20201010_155226541_HDR.jpg.e058e21d785b107189814662fdee7a9a.jpg

Game 3, Sylvaneth (Alarielle, drycha, lots of healing, dryads) in Places of Arcane Power (Aqshy). The battlplan was, of course, very good and the opposing list not too scary. Alariaelle and drycha were of course not bad for the battleplan, but the opponent was too eager to arrive first on the objectives: he took the inititative and came in range of everything. Kroak did his job, the dragons too, drycha was dead on t1 (as well as all the small heroes) and Alarielle on t2, and that was it. Major victory by a very large margin. Aside: Stardrakes are pillow fisted, but my god Alarielle is bad for her points.

IMG_20201010_182439850.jpg.385e3ec90b90545f195e3d8441353804.jpg

Game 4, Slaanesh (Arcahon, Syll'Eske) in Knife to the Heart (Hysh): I wasn't super happy with the pairing and I always hate this battlplan (so much stress, so much sudden death) and yet (longer description due to stressful game :D )... I gave awayt the initative, the opponent advanced with archaon, a warshrine and a sorcerer lord on manticore. I had deployed everything on my objective, leaving 2 units of libs in the sky and the templar on one side. The plan was resist and hope that they might capture the objective (he only had minum battlelines of hellstriders or whatevr they are called). Seeing the situation I opted for a slight change, charging the two dragons on the flanks to kill the buff pieces and avoid as many rerolls as possible on the Slayer of Kings. The Celestant killed the warshrine, the templar left the sorcerer on manticore to 1 wound (acc!). But then, I got a double turn (so lucky!), cleared the sorcerer lord during the hero phase so both dragons were free and arrived on his objective, clearing it. I dropped 5 libs there (they failed their charge), 5 on my objective (in case archaon went there) and hoped. He used his 72 depravity points to summon a keeper and a chariot. However, he made a slight mistake, charging archaon first, who made it harder for them to get in. The chariot managed a very long charge and he activated it and archaon twice. However, the chariot failed to kill the templar, who reacted killing it (way to go baby stardrake) and then died to archaon. The reamining activation did not bring the dreaded double 6 so my general was standing. I won the initiative (again!), brought in the liberators and won. I hate this battleplan -only slightly less than total commitment.

IMG_20201011_103550498.jpg.28cbd59980941e4e58a2fd13068aaf23.jpg

Game 5, Searphon (Kroak, 3x40 skinks and friends) in Blade's Edge (Ulgu). Ok, I admit that I saw the pairing and felt that my chances were pretty slim. I tried kill the small heroes (2xStarpriests) to avoid the buffs but failed, thanks also to the unbinding by Kroak and some mediocre rolling. Then Kroak and the buffed skinks killed both Stardrakes in one turn with pure MW output (not a single wound inflicted otherwise). From there we just played a little more to establish auxiliaries. Major defeat. If seeing the picture you are thinking: why were you so aggressive? that's because I thought that my only chance to reduce the magic dominance was to bring both dragons close enough to give maluses to all his casters, which worked a little bit but not nearly enough (also, because I did not kill the astrolith in my turn).

IMG_20201011_140936833.jpg.ca9f48179c4e200deece71f4ad685c9e.jpg

Although the last game was a bit depressing, I am satisfied with the result. This was a very competitive tournament (qualifications for the finals of the French Cup, many high ranked French players and so on) and considering the meta I had set the bar for giving myself a passing grade at 2 wins. I managed to get 3 which earns me something like a 7.5/10 ^^". It must be said that no other SCE list did better than 3-2 (a gorgeous gav bomb with 2x15 evocators came into day 2 with 3-0 but lost both games afterwards), althouogh for the 1-drop shootcast this was largely due to the inexperience of the player. Still, I have the feeling that I have extracted as much "value" as possible from this list and, barring some new elements, I think the meta keeps getting worse for a) an elite build and b) a build based on limited bu targeted output.

Oh if you're curious, the tournament was won by IDK, followed by Tzeentch and Seraphon.

 

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It might be heresy, but I'm wondering if substituting a drake for a mega-gargaunt might be a decent choice? 

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5 hours ago, Evantas said:

It might be heresy, but I'm wondering if substituting a drake for a mega-gargaunt might be a decent choice? 

I'd say the gargant would require a different list archetype (one which I cannot see yet). In Starcast the giant doesn't bring magic or bonuses to magic, mortal wounds output at range or bodies. It might be a decent sponge for mortal wounds but he could just as well be ignored

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Hi @Marcvs , thanks for your feedback very interresting. French guy here too, I will try a Starcast too for another tournament, I think less competitive than yours.

What is your point of view about Castellant ? I removed him from my list. For my point of view each time I played him, Stardrakes were very strong sure but if my opponent has lot of MW that was not efficient. Staunch defender + perfect plate do the job enough and Castellant is not essential I think.

 

Small pics for my Starcast army

aJ2SzDd.jpg

Edited by Ymh
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8 minutes ago, Ymh said:

Hi @Marcvs , thanks for your feedback very interresting. French guy here too, I will try a Starcast too for another tournament, I think less competitive than yours.

What is your point of view about Castellant ? I removed him from my list. For my point of view each time I played him, Stardrakes were very strong sure but if my opponent has lot of MW that was not efficient. Staunch defender + perfect plate do the job enough and Castellant is not essential I think.

 

Small pics for my Starcast army

aJ2SzDd.jpg

salut salut, really beautiful army you got there 🤩 amazing!

as for the castellant, my opinion is that he's really important in this list, for a number of reasons which I will try to summarise. That being said, of course this is just based on a partial experience so it might absolutely work for you and I can only encourage you to try it.

Now for the reasons pro-Castellant:

  • The healing. Against an army which does MW but not loads of them, it's really wonderful. Playing vs idoneth my opponent was lucky in his very first bite with the turtle and scored 6 MW. Ouch. One turn later I had fully recovered thanks to the castellant. If you don't run him, you might think of a different source of healing (relictor, arcanum on gryph)
  • Charging: you lose staunch when charging. Meaning, even with the plate (the PPP) you will be on 3+ rr1s when you charge. If you are faced with lots of attacks (or just bad luck :D ) this is a potential danger. I had this experience vs saurus knights (no lantern, lots of attacks) and indeed, it can hurt.
  • The Templar: switching the lantern to the templar allows you to have two survivable dragons without keeping them in the staunch bubble.

The point is: I think this is an efficient use of 120pts in this list. If you are thinking of alternatives, it is worth balancing them against the advantages you are losing.

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