Turragor Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Scurvydog said: So what do you think, does a +1 save spell sound so bad compared to the above? I think not, but of course that is an opinion, but having access to maybe 1 unit getting a +1 save buff seems far less impactful than unbinds everywhere or constant access to teleporting for 1 CP. Yes I think its this kind of imbalance in the realms that'll probably lead to a blanket ban of them - or at least the CA/spells. Especially with a Teleport on offer. Having said that, maybe TOs let the artefacts slide through. That'd be nice! Edited July 17, 2020 by Turragor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The World Tree Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 17 hours ago, Turragor said: Yes I think its this kind of imbalance in the realms that'll probably lead to a blanket ban of them - or at least the CA/spells. Especially with a Teleport on offer. Having said that, maybe TOs let the artefacts slide through. That'd be nice! Having played in the realm of metal, the massive amount of entangling terrain is the biggest issue (in a good way - the terrain is meaningful!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) Ok this is my first list to try out, should get a game Tues : Lord Kroak (320)Drakesworn Templar (420)- Tempest AxeKnight-Incantor (120)Lord-Castellant (120)Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- Celestine Hammer5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield3 x Aetherwings (40)3 x Aetherwings (40)Everblaze Comet (100)Balewind Vortex (40)Quicksilver Swords (30)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 92 I think the Aetherwings are so cheap and fast that even with no raptors they are near auto include Edited July 18, 2020 by Turragor 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizrah Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Ended on third place with 2 major wins and 1 major loose with nearly max kill points. I lost first game vs tzeentch, the match i couldnt win due to scenario - 3 obj, battleline score better. He just parked 50 pink on obj in first turn and gg wp. In this match i killed 1900 pts and lost 300. Second vs goblins. Normal game, not much to write. Third vs seraphon (90 skins, slann, salamanders etc), very tough match, but when hero were dead and salamnder eaten by drake i won. Im super happy with this roster!Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLeadersCelestant-Prime (300)Drakesworn Templar (420)- Tempest AxeLord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (200)- Spell: Azyrite HaloLord-Exorcist (90)- Spell: Chain LightningLord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General- Celestine Hammer- Command Trait: Staunch Defender- Mount Trait: Storm-winged - Artefact: Perfect plate (ignore -1 rend)Lord-Castellant (120)Battleline5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x GrandhammersEndless Spells / Terrain / CPsEverblaze Comet (100)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 88 Without MW daddy drake as i call LCoSD is nearly unkilable. Heal and d6 mortals from Arcanum are good also 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Nizrah said: Ended on third place with 2 major wins and 1 major loose with nearly max kill points. I lost first game vs tzeentch, the match i couldnt win due to scenario - 3 obj, battleline score better. He just parked 50 pink on obj in first turn and gg wp. In this match i killed 1900 pts and lost 300. Second vs goblins. Normal game, not much to write. Third vs seraphon (90 skins, slann, salamanders etc), very tough match, but when hero were dead and salamnder eaten by drake i won. Im super happy with this roster!Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLeadersCelestant-Prime (300)Drakesworn Templar (420)- Tempest AxeLord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (200)- Spell: Azyrite HaloLord-Exorcist (90)- Spell: Chain LightningLord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General- Celestine Hammer- Command Trait: Staunch Defender- Mount Trait: Storm-winged - Artefact: Perfect plate (ignore -1 rend)Lord-Castellant (120)Battleline5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x GrandhammersEndless Spells / Terrain / CPsEverblaze Comet (100)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 88 Without MW daddy drake as i call LCoSD is nearly unkilable. Heal and d6 mortals from Arcanum are good also Congrats for the result 🏆 Tell us more of your battle against Seraphon! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) FAQs for the remaining battletomes are up. Crazy as it is (and if my eyes do not deceive me) Lord Kroak stays at 320pts https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/i7eUTesWE3W9jq39.pdf EDIT: so with minimum changes this would be my KroakCast 2020 Spoiler Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General- Celestine Hammer- Command Trait: Staunch Defender - Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection Drakesworn Templar (420)- Tempest Axe- Mount Trait: Storm-wingedLord-Castellant (120)Knight-Incantor (120)- Spell: Chain LightningLord Kroak (320)- Allies5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers3 x Aetherwings (40)Everblaze Comet (100)Balewind Vortex (40)Umbral Spellportal (70)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 320 / 400Wounds: 86 One thing I am consdiering is swapping Umbral + Birds for a Relictor Edited July 20, 2020 by Marcvs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchleuderMann2 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Just checked out the new Faqs, petrifex Plus 1 to safe rolls was change to rr1's tzeentch flamer are 140 nie (Think 120 before) and seraphon Salamander are a bit more expansive too☺👍🏾👍🏾 seems like There is a little light at the End of the tunnel for SCE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Marcvs said: FAQs for the remaining battletomes are up. Crazy as it is (and if my eyes do not deceive me) Lord Kroak stays at 320pts https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/i7eUTesWE3W9jq39.pdf EDIT: so with minimum changes this would be my KroakCast 2020 Hide contents Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General- Celestine Hammer- Command Trait: Staunch Defender - Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection Drakesworn Templar (420)- Tempest Axe- Mount Trait: Storm-wingedLord-Castellant (120)Knight-Incantor (120)- Spell: Chain LightningLord Kroak (320)- Allies5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers3 x Aetherwings (40)Everblaze Comet (100)Balewind Vortex (40)Umbral Spellportal (70)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 320 / 400Wounds: 86 One thing I am consdiering is swapping Umbral + Birds for a Relictor Like the Relictor idea. In most matchups thats gonna give you something extra. I think you can fit in a Venator too ... Though they are always random as anything. I (hopefully) get to play tomorrow so, depending on how I feel - or my opponents face - I'll take the relictor variation, the 2x3 Aetherwings variation or this little idea: Spoiler Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsMortal Realm: ChamonLord Kroak (320)- AlliesCelestant-Prime (300)Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General- Celestine Hammer- Command Trait: Staunch Defender - Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection - Mount Trait: Storm-wingedLord-Castellant (120)Knight-Incantor (120)- Spell: Chain LightningLord-Relictor (100)- Prayer: Translocation5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers3 x Aetherwings (40)3 x Aetherwings (40)Everblaze Comet (100)Balewind Vortex (40)Emerald Lifeswarm (50)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 320 / 400Wounds: 89 Edited July 20, 2020 by Turragor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) Ok! I played last night against Skaven (a nice list, well captained) in new Battle for the Pass. My opponent had something like: Spoiler Allegiance: SkaventideGrey Seer (140)Verminlord Warpseer (320)Warlock Engineer (110)Warlock Engineer (110)40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Spear1 x Doomwheel (150)3 x Stormfiends (260)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 169 I took: Spoiler Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsMortal Realm: ChamonLord Kroak (320)- AlliesDrakesworn Templar (420) - Mount Trait: Storm-wingedLord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General- Celestine Hammer- Command Trait: Staunch Defender - Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection Lord-Castellant (120)Knight-Incantor (120)- Spell: Chain Lightning5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (90)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers3 x Aetherwings (40)3 x Aetherwings (40)Everblaze Comet (100)Balewind Vortex (40) 1970 I was v rusty and made a bunch of mistakes and suffered a major loss, but had fun and have a few things to think about. The good Kroak - As it was first game with Kroak I'm not sure if I saw his true potential. HOWEVER, I did have like 7 CP in round 2 which is a bit above average but not having to worry about when I wanted to use "All out attack" - for instance - was excellent. I think, with so many CP my idea of a Kroak anvils list is decent buuut I'm not sure if losing Staunch is worth it. I love and hate Staunch. You'd also lose the peppery plate of perfect perfecly perfect perfection (see below) which is another large blow. The ability to challenge in the enemy hero phase was also excellent and really kept me in the game against all the Skaven casts. With the 2x Drakes his casting is almost unchallenged. Almost. Putting mystic shield on the Templar is also lovely. Peter Perfect's Plate of Perfectly Perfect Protection - If TOs allow the new realm artefacts, take this. It is a headache for the opponent and perfect synergy on the LCoSD. It's that simple, we've nothing better to take as an artefact right now. Everblaze Comet - And I only got one cast off this game due to some poor luck Still it earned its early points I feel. It stopped a Warplighting cannon from advancing on one flank and did it's usual glut of mw. Stormwinged - I love it. Our one current tome strength is the potential to take Stormwinged x 2. With Kroak CP this and 2 drakes could be heinously nasty. The bad Mortal Wounds - ofc... my opponent had terrible luck with his warplightning cannons but all the same I had to move my LCoSD forward to challenge an objective/clear clanrats and he overcharged and put 8mw on the drake. He took 7 mw back but the damage was done. I was unaware of the Verminlord Warpseers once per battle instant d6 mw attack so in one round the Drake was out Ignax IS missed but this just changes the paradigms - the methods of playing with the LCoSD. Subconsciously - and this is why I lost - I believe I was playing like Starcast without Kroak, with Ignax, pre-covid . I know better but ofc when you're playing a game you still make some decisions based on what was good in previous games with similar lists. Liberators - Am I allowed to put them here? We all know it but still. I explained a few times to my opponent what they were like as he was making decisions "what's their bravery? What save? What kjnd of damage do they do?" I basically told him they were awful. Funnily enough, one survived against the odds and blocked up his flank for 1 extra turn but pure luck can't move them out of the bad zone. We're stuck with them though. The maybe Aetherwings - This is maybe unfair on the scroll because I used them wrong, but without raptors I do think they're not outstanding (if the opponent takes them out). Ignoring them would make them amazing. With hindsight I can also see them working very well for me in some matchups. Are they better than the other options I'd have with the 110 points (40 x 2 + 30) I have left over? That I'm not sure of. Hence "maybe" for now. Templar v Prime - This is a tough one. I rolled poorly for Rain of stars so I left the opponent with a decent amount of options which (in the double turn he got) he exploited well. The prime would have removed more support (and then admittedly died to warplightning cannons soooo ... I'm just not sure! I'd lose +1 to cast on Kroak/Incantor too. Rough Conclusion Taking nothing away from a well played list under my opponent, I think without MW he'd have trouble doing anything to my list and my challenge would have been removing his units from objectives. Which I'd not be too worried about due to how well the drakes can clear hordes. Even with Battleshock immunity I totally ended 40 clanrats in one phase with the LCoSD and some chip damage from hero phase/shooting phase mw. ... That said, he DID have mw and, though maybe above average in the potential to generate them, he didn't have the MOST in the meta. So there will be some very tough matchups for Starcast/Kroakcast. I've a bunch of other thoughts to digest but I'm happy with Kroak tbh. I don't think those 320 points are better spent in Starcast lists - right now. Mayybe The lumineth archers but I'm not sure about that. With an Incantor and Kroak you do so much good work. I am comfortable proceeding (and hopefully getting some tourney games in) with the list I took with some tweaks as my main competitive SC list. Edited July 22, 2020 by Turragor 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Bringing my starcast to a tournament starting next saturday. I know my first matchup is going to be against a KO list, in the plan Bleeding Edge and taking place in Ghyran. My list is LCoSD with the usual and chamon artifact. Prime. Castellant. Kroak. 3x5Libs. 4xConcussors. Balewind. My great fear is Warp lightning and spell in a bottle, with Barak Ziflin he can move his skyvessel in the hero phase, making it impossible for me to deploy out of range, as he can fly high in the hero phase as well... This way he can guarantee a LOT of MW as it deals dmg in his hero phase, his move phase and my move phase. If he lets me go first, he might even get dmg in two of his move phases, which on average would cripple my dragon and kill the castellant. Regardless the castellant will not be long for this world and the drake will be on the back foot with his source of healing gone and heavivuly wounded from pure MW. Not to mention his Frigate has the skymines giving up to d6 MW on a 4+ to a target within 6". With all this and his shooting it is not even unlikely he just deletes whatever is on the board from the start. As I see it my options are few and not great, especially in bleeding edge with all objectives near the center. I could place kroak and some liberators and just accept them all dying, wiht look out sir kroak could be lucky, but likely not with thunderers, endrinriggers, frigate and an ironclad + heroes blasting on him. Then bring down my dragon, concussors and prime the next round, but he could just block me out and my chance of doing anything useful is slim. In this scenario he would probably just hold back on the warp lightning and just fly high and nuke my tiny force on the board. I'm trying to play this out in my mind, but as he has nearly all in a battalion and dictates the turn order, I see little chance of me achieving much. If I go all in, he will just take first turn to avoid my drake, prime and kroak potentially taking out his khemist with the spell in a bottle artifact. Any advice, thoughts and ideas how to play Starcast in this scenario? This really puts focus on the weakness of the list to me, with the castellant being so vulnerable too, and no ignax could just bring me back so much as to never recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Scurvydog said: Any advice, thoughts and ideas how to play Starcast in this scenario? This really puts focus on the weakness of the list to me, with the castellant being so vulnerable too, and no ignax could just bring me back so much as to never recover. I have played the same matchup twice, and replayed in my mind maaany times. Conclusion is: I don't know how to win this. This list can do ALL its first turn actions automatically, no dice rolling, no counterplay, no interaction. I congratulate them for the win and move on. In terms of experience: in my first game (ignax was still a thing mind you) I deployed in the usual way to profit from staunch. Bad call, WLV was devastating and I lost the LCoSD to the shooting. Second time I just tried to make things more difficult, spacing my whole army a lot more, essentially putting kroak (and 5 libs) at the centre, with one dragon 18" from him on the right and the other 18" on the left (I play with the templar). This meant he could only use the WLV effectively on one of the pieces but the strenght of the alpha was still crippling (still lost the general) and I couldn't do enough damage in my t1 to balance the situation. Maybe, maybe a double turn would have helped a little bit, oh and you can gamble on a dispel from Kroak if he's still alive. IF the opponent goes all in to kill Kroak, the dragons can try and tie down the Ironclad so the concussors might be able to do something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Yes that is about the same I came up with, pretty rough first pairing for my first tournament. My fear among 36 participants was the 2 very similar KO lists and 2 Seraphon kroak+salamander teleport lists. These lists does a similar trick to starcast, but just better and a battle is completely on their terms due to the ability to teleport/fly high. A slann doing a teleport and then the dracothions tails ability to drop down salamander units in your face, combined with their own MW antics is too much. 2x3 sallis alone has the average output to kill a stardrake turn 1 by themselves and can guarantee their positioning with teleports. Next greatest fear is probably a fyreslayer player who got smart and put his battalion hero on a magmadroth and MW pole axes on the berzerkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 40 minutes ago, Scurvydog said: Yes that is about the same I came up with, pretty rough first pairing for my first tournament. My fear among 36 participants was the 2 very similar KO lists and 2 Seraphon kroak+salamander teleport lists. These lists does a similar trick to starcast, but just better and a battle is completely on their terms due to the ability to teleport/fly high. A slann doing a teleport and then the dracothions tails ability to drop down salamander units in your face, combined with their own MW antics is too much. 2x3 sallis alone has the average output to kill a stardrake turn 1 by themselves and can guarantee their positioning with teleports. Next greatest fear is probably a fyreslayer player who got smart and put his battalion hero on a magmadroth and MW pole axes on the berzerkers. Ok so, I've faced the Kroak+salamander dracothion tail list a few times (on TTS ofc) and had a least more success than vs that KO list the trick is to have good screening with the libs (3.5 inches at least) and then hope they are too greedy and still decide to attack in t1. When they let me go first I didn't move from the defensive formation. Then it's a matter of initative: if they get the double, you're dead, otherwise you might delete enough salamanders with the counterpunch to have a fighting chance. As for the Fyreslayers with pole axes, it's quite sad: with ignax I once managed to tank two full units for a few turns (thanks to the healing), but now it's really hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted July 25, 2020 Author Share Posted July 25, 2020 7 hours ago, Marcvs said: As for the Fyreslayers with pole axes, it's quite sad: with ignax I once managed to tank two full units for a few turns (thanks to the healing), but now it's really hard I'd recommend pinning a corner of the unit with the drake with tempest axe. If it can. Then the main drake in the other corner. If suitable. 1"pile in can make this survivable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) Tournament over. Ended up winning 3 out of 5 games and had a lot of fun overall. My list: LCoSD Castellant Kroak Prime 3x5 libs 4xconcussors Game 1 was against KO in Baldes Edge as I mentioned before. Despite trying to zone him out some with kroak and 3 units of liberators (rest in the skies). Still lost Kroak just barely and had 4 liberators in 1 unit left. KO sat on 5/6 obj. Turn 2 I landed the rest of the army, got unlucky with my drake shots and did not do too much damage otherwise with the prime shooting. Failed all charges with cmd rerolls as well, so sat there like a fool. After that things were slow, I managed my secondaries killing all his heroes and keeping my drake alive, but otherwise a major loss on obj, I could not get to them all, while he had boats and endrinriggers flying around. Game 2 was Border War against fyreslayer lords of the lodge list with 2 magmadroths. I should have pulled more back, but I got double turned and he got run+charge runes and maxed his run with a cmd and got 10" charge, so 20 angry dwarfs with rend 2 axes and fight twice on the dragon just killed it. I came back though, got his heroes shot down, concussors managed to kill the hearthguards and gryph hound killed 2 with somehow over 2 rounds. Kroak was the game winner here and prime, those to got enough mortal wounds the right places so I managed a minor win and 2/4 secondary points gained. Game 3 was 3 places of power against DoK, he did not have a battalion and I actually got 1st turn with my 8 drops. I got 3 wounds on Morathi in elf form, sat the dragon on center point, prime on 1 other and bunkered down there. I could reach his lines turn 1 in the middle while having the dragon within 3", and killed so so many elfs. He could not get any +rend spells of so all those 0 rend witch aelfs just bounced. 83 attacks doing 1 damage on the concussors (gave them the castellant buff for charging next to dragon). Major win. Game 4 was the new plan Forcing the Hand against another Fyreslayers, no magmadroths but 20 more hearthguards woth poleaxes (oh oh). I baited him in the middle, just barely loosing the prime there after some nice shooting on a bunched up hero blob, he got a long long bomb 12" charge and 2 rounds of fighting, taking the prime down sadly, but I counter attacked with concussors and dragon next turn, which wiped them to 1 wounded dwarf! I managed to screen his 20 poleaxe guys with liberators, so he only got a few in combat with the concussors on his charge next turn, taking only 4 damage and killing 3 liberators. My counter attack killed all of them on my turn. Eventually the long combat in the center lost me the game, as he had 2 gunhaulers doing fly high, getting lucky shots on my liberators and grabbing more objectives than I wanted... I got them eventually but the game ended 22-21 and I got 3/1 secondaries while tabling him, with both kroak, dragon, castellant and 3 concussors alive still. Major loss due to 1 point Game 5 was Blood or Glory against Eels (Deepkin). I bunkered down, screening out the coming 2x6 outflanking eels, while waiting for turn 3 to get them in, I managed to kill his Eidolon of the storm with shooting and ranged, kill 1 3 man unit of eels, half kill his king and 2 other eel units which were on the table. I used my concussors as bait, they took the charge of king and all eels and died gloriously. Now all those eels and the king stood in a bunch and the celestant prime smiled. My bunkering won me the game easily with a tabling, but it also cost me the major win, as I was just a few inches short of reaching the 4th objective (need all 4 at once for a major win). I got a minor win and 2/2 secondaries as my bait liberators did not die (first time all liberator units survived!). Edited August 2, 2020 by Scurvydog 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, Scurvydog said: Tournament over. Ended up winning 3 out of 5 games and had a lot of fun overall. My list: LCoSD Game 1 was against KO as I mentioned before. Despite trying to zone him out some with kroak and 3 units of liberators (rest in the skies) THE LIST WHERES THE LIST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Maturin said: THE LIST WHERES THE LIST yes yes it is there now. I keep pushing ctrl+enter to do linebreaks on reflex but that submits the post instead :s 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted August 3, 2020 Author Share Posted August 3, 2020 You met some tough lists! And played great it seems If anything, playing SCE and dragging these results against the grain and opposite to the widely popular opinion that SCE cannot win (see stats breakdowns on other sites), is just going to lead to a surge of impressive victories next battletome... Which might lead to a host of nerfs - I hope they're more in the 40k style (v space marines) this time haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 How do you guys keep your prime alive ? I try to put him whenever I can, into terrain to get+1 save. Mystic shield on him would be good too if you can give him +1 save, especially now that the drake can take the perfect plate of protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Turragor said: You met some tough lists! And played great it seems If anything, playing SCE and dragging these results against the grain and opposite to the widely popular opinion that SCE cannot win (see stats breakdowns on other sites), is just going to lead to a surge of impressive victories next battletome... Which might lead to a host of nerfs - I hope they're more in the 40k style (v space marines) this time haha Actually another Starcast took 3rd place, while I just placed above the middle, due to 2 of my wins only being minor wins. His list was similar but instead of concussors and liberators, he had judicators as battleline, incantor, arcanum and everblaze comet. I will in my defense say that he probably got some better matchups than I did, and with nothing to really hold the line, I could see that being a problem if he had my matchups, although from what I saw he did play really well and less aggressive than I do. I will say that Kroak is a MAJOR factor, the list is nowhere near the same level without him and he did major damage and fed my army with CP all the time, letting me reroll 1s to hit, use realm commands and reroll mount wounds basically all the time, making the concussors beasts, my opponent who lost 10 hearthguard to their charge alone and then could not pile in due to their 6s, was stunned, most people have never even tried playing against concussors I do hope SC will stand better on their own, have better stormhost rules (we got overlaps with the generic GHB commands jeez) and be able to put up a fair fight, as the best lists currently rely on a lot of "shenanigans", and starcast is certainly also a NPE for many opponents, which despite mostly good games, two of my opponents had a hard time staying positive, as things exploding across the board without any counterplay. 1 hour ago, Maturin said: How do you guys keep your prime alive ? I try to put him whenever I can, into terrain to get+1 save. Mystic shield on him would be good too if you can give him +1 save, especially now that the drake can take the perfect plate of protection. My prime did die in a few games, mostly as a calculated risk to get a good shot and then "distraction carnifex" the focus on him, and deliver a hard counter punch with the dragon and concussors. I did not save him for turn 2 even once, his shooting is so useful and after kroak and stardrake peppers things with MW, his ability to snipe a hero for a guaranteed 3 MW if needed is priceless. With kroak I usually had spare spell slots, to give him mystic shield, and tried to keep him near the dragon if I was not confident in attacking, giving him a 2+ reroll 1s save. He did die in the last turn against a fyreslayer player, when I took his backline objective, but he took it back with a heavily wounded magmadroth, charging in, using CP to deliver d6 MW and had the ogor style charge mount trait, rolling 6 on the d6 and 3 6s with 8 dice for the charge... If I put him down from the sky in a risky spot, I will usually use a reserve liberator unit as well to place in front of him for a screen. That is not always enough though, especially wiht long bomb charges and double turns at times, but he is very much risk/reward for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicy Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 5 hours ago, Scurvydog said: Actually another Starcast took 3rd place, while I just placed above the middle, due to 2 of my wins only being minor wins. His list was similar but instead of concussors and liberators, he had judicators as battleline, incantor, arcanum and everblaze comet. I will in my defense say that he probably got some better matchups than I did, and with nothing to really hold the line, I could see that being a problem if he had my matchups, although from what I saw he did play really well and less aggressive than I do. I will say that Kroak is a MAJOR factor, the list is nowhere near the same level without him and he did major damage and fed my army with CP all the time, letting me reroll 1s to hit, use realm commands and reroll mount wounds basically all the time, making the concussors beasts, my opponent who lost 10 hearthguard to their charge alone and then could not pile in due to their 6s, was stunned, most people have never even tried playing against concussors I do hope SC will stand better on their own, have better stormhost rules (we got overlaps with the generic GHB commands jeez) and be able to put up a fair fight, as the best lists currently rely on a lot of "shenanigans", and starcast is certainly also a NPE for many opponents, which despite mostly good games, two of my opponents had a hard time staying positive, as things exploding across the board without any counterplay. My prime did die in a few games, mostly as a calculated risk to get a good shot and then "distraction carnifex" the focus on him, and deliver a hard counter punch with the dragon and concussors. I did not save him for turn 2 even once, his shooting is so useful and after kroak and stardrake peppers things with MW, his ability to snipe a hero for a guaranteed 3 MW if needed is priceless. With kroak I usually had spare spell slots, to give him mystic shield, and tried to keep him near the dragon if I was not confident in attacking, giving him a 2+ reroll 1s save. He did die in the last turn against a fyreslayer player, when I took his backline objective, but he took it back with a heavily wounded magmadroth, charging in, using CP to deliver d6 MW and had the ogor style charge mount trait, rolling 6 on the d6 and 3 6s with 8 dice for the charge... If I put him down from the sky in a risky spot, I will usually use a reserve liberator unit as well to place in front of him for a screen. That is not always enough though, especially wiht long bomb charges and double turns at times, but he is very much risk/reward for me. when i did double stardrake with 4 fulms back in the days. After a while people started to complain it was super interactive to play against and they asked me to play against my own list. So i did..... Turned out it was super boring to play against. Mayb for a tournament that is not a big of a deal but if you go to tournaments like me to have fun and play 5 battles i like it more if both players are having fun in a game. Where starcast promotes non interactive play. For that reason i dont like these kind of lists:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 12 hours ago, Juicy said: when i did double stardrake with 4 fulms back in the days. After a while people started to complain it was super interactive to play against and they asked me to play against my own list. So i did..... Turned out it was super boring to play against. Mayb for a tournament that is not a big of a deal but if you go to tournaments like me to have fun and play 5 battles i like it more if both players are having fun in a game. Where starcast promotes non interactive play. For that reason i dont like these kind of lists:) The power level was quite high in the tournament (https://tabletop.to/battle-of-copenhagen-2020-summer-edition) and with 36 players it might have been one of the largest events this summer. 4 Fyreslayers lists in total and I got 2 games against them, which i also a tough matchup, both due to 4+ ignore wound saves on hearthguards, but they also all brought the banner artifact on the battlesmiths for 4+ to ignore spells, which really puts a huge dent in Kroaks output, unless the dragon and prime can snipe that banner. The finals was a Bonereaper list vs Tzeentch guild of summoners, ending in a draw with a nailbiting game to say the least. Tzeentch won the event due to points (4 major wins with 4/4 secondaries and just the draw in the end). Some of these lists include a bunch of NPE as well, with probably Tzeentch being the worst, as the list would have 3 lords of change på BR 3 usually and the board and objectives flooded in blue and brimstone horrors. I do think Starcast is the only way to even compete in that top meta though and getting 5/5 will take both a lot of hard work and some luck of the draw as well. Now I will have to consider if the dragon will roll out again in the next event in 2 months time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarii Orientalis Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) Cheers for the final results, Scurvydog! At least it is pleasant to hear that the tournament did not include missions that invalidate another army's strength or highly favour armies with already cost effective battleline and monsters/behemoths. The former would be Total Commitment, and the latter Focal Points, The Better Part of Valour, Shifting Objectives. I hope organisers of other numerous tournaments could give a thought about the imbalance that can be brought by such missions. Edited August 4, 2020 by Sagittarii Orientalis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said: I hope organisers of other numerous tournaments could give a thought about the imbalance that can be brought by such missions. Yes total commitment basically removes the base SCE allegiance ability completely, and it puzzles me it is still in the book, when duality of death got removed, which severely punished some types of lists as well. This tournament used all the new GHB2020 stuff, but with set realms, so we had Blades Edge set in Ghyran, Border War in Aqshy. 3 Places of Power in Ulgu, Forcing the Hand in Hysh, and Blood and Glory in Ghur. I really liked that pack overall, with some fun missions and some more straight forward ones as well. The realm did have some impact, both frustrating and hilarious stuff happened, such as the terrible KO matchup made worse by his boats being next to healing terrain in Ghyran, with his heroes rolling a 6 two turns in a row, healing all my dragons and primes damage twice... Also in Aqushy, my 5 liberators gambled i volcanic cover, which lost them a man, however 2 angry magmadroths tried to fry them with their d6 MW breath, which needs to roll requal or below the unit model count to hit, both magmadroths rolling 5! Forcing him to dedicate one of the monsters to deal with the distraction. Ghur was handy for the dragon being able to fight at full power despite having taken damage for 1 CP, having access to a +2 run and charge spell in wildform also really makes a difference in an army with little access to bonuses like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 21 hours ago, Scurvydog said: I will say that Kroak is a MAJOR factor, the list is nowhere near the same level without him and he did major damage and fed my army with CP all the time, letting me reroll 1s to hit, use realm commands and reroll mount wounds basically all the time, making the concussors beasts, my opponent who lost 10 hearthguard to their charge alone and then could not pile in due to their 6s, was stunned, most people have never even tried playing against concussors Yep Kroak is amazing. With the amount of CP I think concussors are a good shout definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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