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Turragor

Starcast - The Thread

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1 minute ago, Scurvydog said:

Going to a turny and thinking of bringing my SC now.

I love the extra points available in the list, but really conflicted on what might be the best synergy:

LCoSD

You just want to bring a LCoSD ? That's ballsy :D

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1 minute ago, Maturin said:

You just want to bring a LCoSD ? That's ballsy :D

Will teach me to make posts with my son on my lap 😝

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I also got a Kroak for my Seraphon force I could bring along, however I am not too sure how to make the most of him. His celestial deliverance is only 10", then you could add 6" range with a balewind for another 40 pts, but 16" is still rather short and will perhaps never be used if a bad double turn takes place (usually being forced to go first due to high drops). 

If he does not get to cast celestial deliverance he only has mystic shield, arcane bolt and his comets call, which is not that impressive. How do you use him properly? Place him aggressively towards the front and hope not to get double turned?  Umbral spell portal could also be an option, but now the points are really stacking up, and every cast is a potential fail as well.

Wihtout kroak, is it worth it to run a single incantor and everblaze? I'm trying to consider this option as well, but with only 1 cast, he even if everything succeeds that is at best a comet every second battleround. Balewind could allow 1 incantor to attempt both a dispell and cast, but then you got 140 pts of endless spells on this single dude and all is wasted if he dies... Then if I run 2 incantors and everblaze, that is 320 and the same price as Kroak... 

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1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

I also got a Kroak for my Seraphon force I could bring along, however I am not too sure how to make the most of him. His celestial deliverance is only 10", then you could add 6" range with a balewind for another 40 pts, but 16" is still rather short and will perhaps never be used if a bad double turn takes place (usually being forced to go first due to high drops). 

If he does not get to cast celestial deliverance he only has mystic shield, arcane bolt and his comets call, which is not that impressive. How do you use him properly? Place him aggressively towards the front and hope not to get double turned?  Umbral spell portal could also be an option, but now the points are really stacking up, and every cast is a potential fail as well.

Wihtout kroak, is it worth it to run a single incantor and everblaze? I'm trying to consider this option as well, but with only 1 cast, he even if everything succeeds that is at best a comet every second battleround. Balewind could allow 1 incantor to attempt both a dispell and cast, but then you got 140 pts of endless spells on this single dude and all is wasted if he dies... Then if I run 2 incantors and everblaze, that is 320 and the same price as Kroak... 

In my experience, Kroak brings a lot even if he never casts deliverance (the comet is really the one thing I want from him + the magic protection). I bring both umbral and the balewind vortex to complement this and it goes like: turn 1: comet, portal, deliverance/arcane bolt (depending on range), mystic shield on templar; turn 2: dispel everblaze comet, balewind, comet, deliverance/arcane bolt, mystic shield. As you can see, there's not much space for deliverance anyway, although it can get very useful if the enemy closes in and you have lost the incantor.

Possible alternatives: 1) add a runelord to dispel the comet (plus a nice unbind at +2); 2) add an exorcist (same price as the runelord now, lol, also gives you a second wizard to cast the comet); 3) bring a Slann (much more fragile but does everything we need); 4) more options (Sentinels) if LRL as allies is confirmed

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Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Celestant-Prime (300)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
- General
- Staunch Defender
- STORM WINGED
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Stormlance
Lord-Exorcist (90) - wow thats cheap
Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger - (200) - d6 heal is useful
Lord-Castellant (120)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total:  2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400

Idk about artefact, without ignax we lack MW protection. So i consider this staff thats deal d6 mortals to random unit or idk.


My new look at Starcast. What do you think?

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3 hours ago, Nizrah said:

 without ignax we lack MW protection. So i consider this staff thats deal d6 mortals to random unit or idk.

My new look at Starcast. What do you think?

I like it. D6 heal is nice, but no auto dispel. You've got to weigh the consequences.

Edited by Maturin

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Love the List, always wanted to be able to put all the nice big guys on the table and the comet and two wizards. 

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9 hours ago, Nizrah said:


Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Celestant-Prime (300)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
- General
- Staunch Defender
- STORM WINGED
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Stormlance
Lord-Exorcist (90) - wow thats cheap
Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger - (200) - d6 heal is useful
Lord-Castellant (120)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total:  2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400

Idk about artefact, without ignax we lack MW protection. So i consider this staff thats deal d6 mortals to random unit or idk.


My new look at Starcast. What do you think?

I like this too, I've been looking at what the points reductions can bring.

The d6 heal sounds fantastic - until it whiffs :D and that's my only concern with those 200 pts. Plus taking an Lord Arcanum always makes you ponder Sequitors HOWEVER, new points on liberators mean they're really quite a cheap battleline tax. Plus without ignax, a general with 8 wounds (or is it 7 even?) feels risky.

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OK so I've had a thought and, maybe, the first list I built forgets bout Kroak (I'll get more interested in him again if we hear his points are still 400 or lower), we're going traditional and shoring up some weaknesses whilst keeping roughly the same model and wound count:

Spoiler
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact: Armour of Destiny
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2140 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86

 

Bear in mind that I'm not 100% sure on the points leaks at the moment.

What do we think?

Also, what, in general, do people think Starcast's biggest weakness is?

  • Delicate characters?  Errant Questor perhaps.
  • Casting? Kroak was great but if he's gone Exorcists are pretty cheap now. Incantors are there to guarantee unbinds as well.
  • Bodies? Use the points over in traditional lists for the cheapest chaff (once we know the points of all Order units).

I also think LRL as allies makes things interesting as well.  @Marcvs (I believe) has already written about that above. His lists are sound.

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1 hour ago, Turragor said:
  Reveal hidden contents
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact: Armour of Destiny
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2140 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86

 
  • Bodies? Use the points over in traditional lists for the cheapest chaff (once we know the points of all Order units).

I also think LRL as allies makes things interesting as well.  @Marcvs (I believe) has already written about that above. His lists are sound.

Are you talking about those two lists I made for GA: Order ?

OR
 

Or this one for SCE by Marcvs ?
 

The SCE can't allow you to use Teclis as an ally as he costs too much.
But GA : ORder allows you too, and that's where he shines, with a 18" 5+ FNP.

Edited by Maturin

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15 minutes ago, Turragor said:

What do we think?

Also, what, in general, do people think Starcast's biggest weakness is?

  • Delicate characters?  Errant Questor perhaps.
  • Casting? Kroak was great but if he's gone Exorcists are pretty cheap now. Incantors are there to guarantee unbinds as well.
  • Bodies? Use the points over in traditional lists for the cheapest chaff (once we know the points of all Order units).

I also think LRL as allies makes things interesting as well.  @Marcvs (I believe) has already written about that above. His lists are sound.

After testing the leaked points with a gracious opponent for fun, I have come up with 2 lists I will probably use a lot and bring either one to an upcoming tournament, depending on any changes to Kroak to be one or the other.

No Kroak:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
Celestant-Prime (300)
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord- Exorcist (90)

Knight Incantor (120)


5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Judicators (140)
4 x Concussors (440)

Everblaze comet (100)
 

With Kroak:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
Celestant-Prime (300)
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord Kroak (320)
- Allies
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
4 x Concussors (440)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Edited by Scurvydog

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46 minutes ago, Turragor said:

OK so I've had a thought and, maybe, the first list I built forgets bout Kroak (I'll get more interested in him again if we hear his points are still 400 or lower), we're going traditional and shoring up some weaknesses whilst keeping roughly the same model and wound count:

  Reveal hidden contents
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact: Armour of Destiny
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2140 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86

 

Bear in mind that I'm not 100% sure on the points leaks at the moment.

What do we think?

Also, what, in general, do people think Starcast's biggest weakness is?

  • Delicate characters?  Errant Questor perhaps.
  • Casting? Kroak was great but if he's gone Exorcists are pretty cheap now. Incantors are there to guarantee unbinds as well.
  • Bodies? Use the points over in traditional lists for the cheapest chaff (once we know the points of all Order units).

I also think LRL as allies makes things interesting as well.  @Marcvs (I believe) has already written about that above. His lists are sound.

I am still not convinced by the Prime. Even at 300pts it seems like a lot for doing 3-6 MW and then dying :D

While I wait for the test of the battlefield concerning my doubts about the enduring feasibility of magic-heavy starcast, I would rather replace Kroak (in case he becomes too expensive) with a Slann + saurus guards (no need for balewind and spellportal then) and, if my back of an envelope calculations are correct, upgrade one/two liberators to bow judicators or add aetherwings

Edited by Marcvs
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49 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

I am still not convinced by the Prime. Even at 300pts it seems like a lot for doing 3-6 MW and then dying :D

While I wait for the test of the battlefield concerning my doubts about the enduring feasibility of magic-heavy starcast, I would rather replace Kroak (in case he becomes too expensive) with a Slann + saurus guards (no need for balewind and spellportal then) and, if my back of an envelope calculations are correct, upgrade one/two liberators to bow judicators or add aetherwings

The Prime is a difficult model. I am still learning to use him and sometimes he wins me the game and others he just goes splat like a fly in a windshield. Sometimes I have been too aggressive with him I think, he has some good value in his shooting and at 24" range and 12" move he can point almost anywhere and guarantee some nasty output with his special ability, such as 6" radius doing d3 mortal wounds, or simeply d6 radius but for sure 3 MW, which could really be a major factor in securing kills potentially weakened by magic or the stardrake. 

The Stardrake is unreliable, but for example it might manage to put 2 wounds on a bloodsecrator, then it has immense value if you can 100% guarantee with the Prime to simply shoot 3MW of the guy, no more +1 attack aura. You could simply deploy him turn 1 and just maximise the shooting output during the game, or wait for turn 2 where his melee output is decently potent, and have him as a support piece. Charging him in alone is rarely super great, but he CAN do it and before he does, your opponent needs to deal with knowing this guy can drop down and guarantee the charge if he wants to. This gives you that psychological edge that might change a game entirely in the first turns.

At least for 300 it is more reasonable than before, I will say though he is one of the most interesting and fun models in the game, both as a miniature and to play in the game. If only he was a tad tougher he would be seen way more I think.

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3 hours ago, Maturin said:

Are you talking about those two lists I made for GA: Order ?

OR
 

Or this one for SCE by Marcvs ?
 

The SCE can't allow you to use Teclis as an ally as he costs too much.
But GA : ORder allows you too, and that's where he shines, with a 18" 5+ FNP.

GA:Order is another angle I think would be nice for sure, but I would rather it's a new thread (that I could link in the first post. As ppl with a bunch of SC models might feel super betrayed jumping in here and seeing "take a drake and a prime, a caster and a comet then everything else from other factions" :P

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2 hours ago, Marcvs said:

add aetherwings

Just plugging in a raptors with a few aetherwing units might be real nice.

Yeah, I think it's too early - Saturday we'll know more! Might try my traditional idea, might try out Kroak for the first time (if he's the same or near enough the same cost).

 

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4 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

The Prime is a difficult model. I am still learning to use him and sometimes he wins me the game and others he just goes splat like a fly in a windshield. Sometimes I have been too aggressive with him I think, he has some good value in his shooting and at 24" range and 12" move he can point almost anywhere and guarantee some nasty output with his special ability, such as 6" radius doing d3 mortal wounds, or simeply d6 radius but for sure 3 MW, which could really be a major factor in securing kills potentially weakened by magic or the stardrake. 

The Stardrake is unreliable, but for example it might manage to put 2 wounds on a bloodsecrator, then it has immense value if you can 100% guarantee with the Prime to simply shoot 3MW of the guy, no more +1 attack aura. You could simply deploy him turn 1 and just maximise the shooting output during the game, or wait for turn 2 where his melee output is decently potent, and have him as a support piece. Charging him in alone is rarely super great, but he CAN do it and before he does, your opponent needs to deal with knowing this guy can drop down and guarantee the charge if he wants to. This gives you that psychological edge that might change a game entirely in the first turns.

At least for 300 it is more reasonable than before, I will say though he is one of the most interesting and fun models in the game, both as a miniature and to play in the game. If only he was a tad tougher he would be seen way more I think.

Agreed. He needs 10 wounds, a 3+ unrendable save and a 5+ FNP to be worth his points, even with the discount. 300 points gets you WAY more value in most other armies.

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1 hour ago, LordPrometheus said:

Agreed. He needs 10 wounds, a 3+ unrendable save and a 5+ FNP to be worth his points, even with the discount. 300 points gets you WAY more value in most other armies.

Problem is his "strongest R5" schtick is counter productive to any cost.

Let him have unrendable and a FNP. Leave his wounds at 8. Give him 6 attacks r1. Take away increase to number of attacks.

Maybe give him an ULTRA BOOST if he comes on R5 - like his comet is 2d6 range and d6 damage, his mace has rend -4 and damage 4 with 8 attacks. lol

His points for 1 round is grim and it shows in how he is most often played :P as an artillery piece.

Note for those pondering if they take him in a list: His greatest strength for me is Orrery of fates - and thats what wins me games when the prime wins the game. Its like our own once per turn destiny die.

 Sometimes that's a 12 inch charge rather than a guaranteed 3 mw.

Edited by Turragor

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i love the celestant prime as a turn 3 hammer that you cant kill if its not on the table... Doesnt do anything either so it has its good stuff and its bad stuf..
But i would love to give him higher points with better rules. The thing i would like the most is more damage. Like on turn 3 i do like 15 damage average in my games with him on the charge+shooting. Thats not enough to kill most stuff and he's 3 turns in the sky sitting there for that 1 hammer blow... Its should be a K.O blow when u drop him.  
 

I would like the whole warriorchamber range to ignore -1 rend. 

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So with the upcoming point changes I’ve been thinking about how to fill out my list. Spoiler: I havn’t even painted my stardrake, so I’ve never played with him. But since when has that stopped anyone from buying more models to fill a future need? 🤓

Main parts of my list: 

LCoSD (500p) 

Celestant-Prime (300) 

Lord castellant (120) 

Incantor (120) 

Battleline

3 x 5 libs (270) 

Endless 

Comet (100) 

Total: 1410 p 

 

I was planning on trying the ballista route (3 x ballistas + ordinator). But with the point changes, I have 590 points left (90 more than before the changes). This can make a bit of a difference I think. 

 

I would love your opinions on these ideas to fill out the list(and please add your own if you have a better one 😃).

Idea 1:  4 x ballistas + ordinator (=580 p) 

Idea 2: 4 x fulminators + lord heraldor/lord relictor + extra command point/3x aetherwings (=590/580)

Idea 3: 3 x ballistas + ordinator + extra incantor (590)  

Idea 4: GOTREK + command point so he can RUN 6” (570, are we gonna hold any objectives anyway?)

Idea 5: 10 x evocators on foot + lord relictor + extra command point (570)

 

I understand that it probably depends on opponent etc. Personally I love the idea of 2 incantors, being able to use both azyrite halo and the comet, potential for comet spam, double auto dispel (looking at you Hand of dust). The 3 ballistas supported by an ordinator could be nice to hold an objective, screened by some liberators perhaps. 

Then again I love the idea of adding Gotrek and having a list that is 15 liberators and 5 heroes, with a grand total of 20 models 😛  Just imagine the look on your opponents face when he has to choose between engaging the Stardrake or Gotrek. 

Any opinions on what would be the ”best”? Or do you guys have any other fun ideas? 😁

 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Django said:

4 x fulminators + lord heraldor

I  love this idea.

Ballistas are probably quite strong too.

HOWEVER this is the spirit of Starcast in a nutshell:

1 hour ago, Django said:

adding Gotrek and having a list that is 15 liberators and 5 heroes, with a grand total of 20 models 😛  Just imagine the look on your opponents face when he has to choose between engaging the Stardrake or Gotrek. 

Don't let them choose! You can say that Felix was reborn as a drake.

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14 minutes ago, Turragor said:

I  love this idea.

Ballistas are probably quite strong too.

HOWEVER this is the spirit of Starcast in a nutshell:

Don't let them choose! You can say that Felix was reborn as a drake.

Will probably try out the 3x ballista, ordinator and incantor first, then Gotrek (but this will probably require a more serious game as I dont think it’s very nice to bring a Gotrek to a knife fight) and then maybe get me some fulminators, quite an investment those guys since the box is crazy expensive for two models. 

I am afraid that with literally zero movement support for Gotrek he won’t be choosing his targets very much 😅 But I really like the idea of having the Stardrake as an anti-horde unit, and Gotrek as the anti elite/heroes unit. Maybe just have Gotrek walk alongside the Stardrake, forcing the opponent to make a hard decision on how to deal with them. Send in 40 skinks? Stardrake will ask ”why are you hitting yourself” (before it dies to the MW:s since no more MW protection after realm artefacts are gone) Send in a big unit, Archaeon?, to slay my dragon? Gotrek says hi. 

Now, will this win me many games? Doubt it, i’ve also played around 10 games in total so I suck buuuut then again big models = big fun. 

Definately gonna name my LCoSD ”Lord why are you hitting yourself on Felix” 

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Debating between two lists that I like the look of, both with two stardrakes:

Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500) general
Drakesworn Templar (420)
Lord-Castellant (120)
5x Liberators (90)
5x Liberators (90)
5x Liberators (90)
Celestant-Prime (300)
Knight-Incantor (120)
Knight-Incantor (120)
Everblaze Comet (100)
Extra Command Point (50)
2000/2000

..or:

Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500) general
Drakesworn Templar (420)
Lord-Castellant (120)
5x Liberators (90)
5x Liberators (90)
5x Liberators (90)
6x Desolators (570)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
1980/2000

Feedback would be appreciated as I'm having a hard time deciding which one to commit to (and one has a bit more painting commitments than the other :))

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10 hours ago, Memnoch said:

Debating between two lists that I like the look of, both with two stardrakes:

Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500) general
Drakesworn Templar (420)
Lord-Castellant (120)
5x Liberators (90)
5x Liberators (90)
5x Liberators (90)
Celestant-Prime (300)
Knight-Incantor (120)
Knight-Incantor (120)
Everblaze Comet (100)
Extra Command Point (50)
2000/2000

..or:

Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500) general
Drakesworn Templar (420)
Lord-Castellant (120)
5x Liberators (90)
5x Liberators (90)
5x Liberators (90)
6x Desolators (570)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
1980/2000

Feedback would be appreciated as I'm having a hard time deciding which one to commit to (and one has a bit more painting commitments than the other :))

I would personally go with the first, mainly for the magic protection. I would alsoswap the command point for aetherwings :D  oor, if the future in your local meta shapes to be a lot of oppressive magic (hence, you don't get to cast the comet very often) I eliminate the comet altogether and take something else with 150 points (if they are a possible ally, 10 LRL archers, or 20 skinks, or an heraldor + aetherwings, stuff like that)

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9 hours ago, Marcvs said:

I would personally go with the first, mainly for the magic protection. I would alsoswap the command point for aetherwings :D  oor, if the future in your local meta shapes to be a lot of oppressive magic (hence, you don't get to cast the comet very often) I eliminate the comet altogether and take something else with 150 points (if they are a possible ally, 10 LRL archers, or 20 skinks, or an heraldor + aetherwings, stuff like that)

What he said (except I'm loving the 2nd one because there's more dragons) 

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10 hours ago, Marcvs said:

I would personally go with the first, mainly for the magic protection. I would alsoswap the command point for aetherwings :D  oor, if the future in your local meta shapes to be a lot of oppressive magic (hence, you don't get to cast the comet very often) I eliminate the comet altogether and take something else with 150 points (if they are a possible ally, 10 LRL archers, or 20 skinks, or an heraldor + aetherwings, stuff like that)

 

24 minutes ago, Turragor said:

What he said (except I'm loving the 2nd one because there's more dragons) 

Thanks for the feedback guys. I see the logic although I'm slightly concerned about the lack of melee output which I figured the desolators would bring. But then again your point about the magic protection is a very valid one. Picking the first one is the easy choice though as the only thing that needs paint from that on is the drakesworn, but the second one would also require the desolators to be painted :)

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