Marcvs Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 The (just leaked) lumineth archers might fit into the theme of Starcast (losing Kroak is tough though): range 30" (+6 movement), ignoring LoS and dealing MW on 6s. They only have 1 attack each BUT can cast a spell (cast on 6) to do MW on 5s -and of course, the Stadrakes help them cast this. If they get their buff spell off, 20 of them (280 points) on average can kill a support hero with 6 wounds. Something like: Spoiler Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Mortal Realm: AqshyLEADERSDrakesworn Templar (420)- Tempest Axe - Mount Trait : Storm-wingedKnight-Incantor (140)- Spell : Azyrite Halo Knight-Incantor (140)- Spell : StormcallerLord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General - Command Trait : Staunch Defender - Celestine Hammer - Artefact : Ignax's ScalesLord-Castellant (120)UNITS5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield - 1 x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield - 1 x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield - 1 x Grandhammers 20x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)- AlliesENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTSEverblaze Comet (100) TOTAL: 2000/2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The World Tree Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Don't think they can ally with anyone but Deepkin, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 54 minutes ago, The World Tree said: Don't think they can ally with anyone but Deepkin, no? they can't but as far as I know they are an Order faction and SCE can ally with "any ORDER faction" so, uncless there's a special rule in their battletome, I'd say it's possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The World Tree Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Marcvs said: they can't but as far as I know they are an Order faction and SCE can ally with "any ORDER faction" so, uncless there's a special rule in their battletome, I'd say it's possible Fair point. In my head it was just that Stormcast can ally in each individual faction, but yes I do believe you are right. I don't think I've ever actually used allies in over 200 SCE games, now that I think on it! Edited June 18, 2020 by The World Tree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) Its entirely possible that, until SCE get their next tome, the best way to use all our SCE models is to play Order with a bunch of toys. I saw an interesting list involving Tickles (my name for Teclis), Kroak, the Prime and a bunch of interesting Order chaff. I reckon that philsophy, combined with the majority of SCE models that everyone here owns (surely) can lead to some really interesting "Stormcast (wolf) in Order (sheep) Clothing" lists. As pure SC you really lose very little (staunch - the main thing for me) switching to Order. I know I've considered a few Cities lists but they are quite restrictive. In the end though, that's just a theory. And what it points to is that we're going beyond wringing every bit of SCE faction juice out of the tome and have moved onto just seeing what our Stormcast centric model collections can do with the minimum extra Euros/dollars spent. Time and many minds focusing on the problem will tell! NB/ if you read this and think "oh so if time, money, painting effort - all that - weren't a consideration, I'd play Seraphon or Lumineth then?" - then yes, yes you absolutely would. But one of the joys (for me) in this hobby, because I'm a slow painter with a job and young family, is finding out the best list I can make with what I already have, rather than getting the newest, hottest, netlist. Edited June 20, 2020 by Turragor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Ok, waiting to see if the GHB brings some actual good news, I am starting to think about the evolution of the list post LRL and post loss of Ignax Scale (and Malign Sorcercy artifacts in general). Also, I am planning around an increase in points of Lord Kroak which makes it impossible to ally -as an aside, I am not convinced about this, as its quite early after the release of the new Seraphon battletome and there hasn't been a single official event in the meantime (fun fact: if this happens, it will stop me from using Kroak in SCE before I had a single occasion to put it down on a physical table. That being said, here's a first idea: Spoiler Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLeadersLord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General- Celestine Hammer- Command Trait: Shielded by Faith - Artefact: Armour of Destiny - Mount Trait: Storm-wingedLord-Castellant (120)Knight-Incantor (140)- Spell: Lightning BlastDrakesworn Templar (420)- Tempest AxeSlann Starmaster (260)- AlliesBattleline5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x GrandhammersUnits10 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (140)- AlliesEndless Spells / Terrain / CPsEverblaze Comet (100)Malevolent Maelstrom (10)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 400 / 400Wounds: 90 1) The Shielded by faith + Armour of Destiny combination saves 44% of MW, but the loss of Staunch is a big hit vs rend and for healing potential (is the lord castellant still the best choice? Should it be replaced with a relictor for the possibility of healing + sneaky translocation?). The other option is of course the Mirrorshield: it would help to avoid getting the Stradrake shot out of the table in t1 by KO zilfin or cities Irondrakes + bridge, in exchange for the 6+ FNP of the armour of destiny (which is, admittedly, not much) 2) The Slann is much more fragile of Kroak, but can stay far in the backline -con: doing so would more likely lead to the loss of the drakes' bonuses to cast, but the comet would still go off on a 6+ . He is a prime target for deepstriking shooting units though. 3) I like the LRL archers and they fit so well in the 400 pts of allies together with the slann. With the bonuses from the drakes their self-buff is pretty certain and they would be doing 3MW in range 36" without LOS (plus, 10 bodies on a back objective). Not a bad complement! 4) With the magic dominance of the three latest battletomes I am considering whether it would make sense dropping the everblaze comet altogther (could make place for the said relictor or an hearldor for more non-magic MWs), but I would still keep the incantor (auto unbinds have increased in value with teclis around) so for the moment I am still leaning in favour of taking it. That being said: a) LRL with teclis still seem like a very hard matchup (even without, there's a lot of MW just from the basic units), b) let's pray Sigmar for points reductions at least. Would be nice to be able to raise 100pts more for Starcast lists... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 @Marcvs LRL can ally by allied with Idoneth Deepkin. How would you ally them with Sce ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Maturin said: @Marcvs LRL can ally by allied with Idoneth Deepkin. How would you ally them with Sce ? SCE can ally with "Any ORDER faction", so barring a specific rule or exception, we can ally them although the opposite is not possible Edited June 30, 2020 by Marcvs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, Marcvs said: SCE can ally with "Any ORDER faction", so barring a specific rule or exception, we can ally them although the opposite is not possible Is it still valid ? I mean we're supposed to use the latest scrolls available right ? Before COS is used to take an assassin in with the SCE, but now he can only hide within COS units. Do you see what I mean ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Maturin said: Is it still valid ? I mean we're supposed to use the latest scrolls available right ? Before COS is used to take an assassin in with the SCE, but now he can only hide within COS units. Do you see what I mean ? well, the warscroll of the assassin has been updated to mention "a friendly Cities of sigmar unit". Until there is an FAQ/Errata about the SCE battletome, I don't see why LRL could not be included as allies Edited June 30, 2020 by Marcvs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Marcvs said: (fun fact: if this happens, it will stop me from using Kroak in SCE before I had a single occasion to put it down on a physical table. Exactly like myself! Anyway, Im holding off on any list crafting until I read a bit more about LRL and see the new GHB - soon here! I got a feeling we'll see new SC by end of this year or start of next. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Marcvs said: SCE can ally with "Any ORDER faction", so barring a specific rule or exception, we can ally them although the opposite is not possible Yeah, until it gets nerfed :D. Sadly, I used to theory craft totally crazy and powerful lists before COS. But now they're not usable anymore due to COS units only affecting COS units, even if taken in GA : Oder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 If some people are interested in taking the spirit of starcast to a mixed order list, I've a few questions for you: Is it worth taking Teclis AND Kroak? If the best list chooses between, which do you take? What battleline is strongest? LRL can lock down 2 with Wardens and and sentinels (I think). Would you take Prime? Stardrake(s)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 14 minutes ago, Turragor said: If some people are interested in taking the spirit of starcast to a mixed order list, I've a few questions for you: Is it worth taking Teclis AND Kroak? If the best list chooses between, which do you take? What battleline is strongest? LRL can lock down 2 with Wardens and and sentinels (I think). Would you take Prime? Stardrake(s)? Problem of Stardrake + Teclis is that the +1 to cast is wasted, and in that case you might just replace it with a different "tank" and include the prime instead... then again, the light of eltharion does MW with a threat range of 6+run+18 (+beatufiul model) and here we are slipping towards a LRL list so I would say: no teclis and 1 stardrake maybe? Spoiler Allegiance: OrderLord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General- Celestine Hammer- Command Trait: Master of DefenseLord-Castellant (120)The Light of Eltharion (220)Lord Kroak (320)Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)10 x Saurus Warriors (90)- Clubs5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (90)Balewind Vortex (40)Umbral Spellportal (70)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 87 No khinerai brings you 20pts from replacing Eltharion with a Prime Or, no khinerai and 10 less archers gets you an incantor + comet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) For maximum splash MW damage I would try this list : If enemy lets you go first, you toast him with magic. If he goes first, he impales himself on the wardens, deletes them but next turn, he's magically roasted Archmage Teclis and Celennar, Spirit of Hysh (660)Celestant-Prime (340) Lord-Exorcist (120)- GeneralLord Kroak (320)10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)Umbral Spellportal (70)Everblaze Comet (100)Quicksilver Swords (30)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 66 Edited July 2, 2020 by Maturin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Maturin said: For maximum splash MW damage I would try this list : Archmage Teclis and Celennar, Spirit of Hysh (660)Celestant-Prime (340) Lord-Exorcist (120)- GeneralLord Kroak (320)10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)Umbral Spellportal (70)Everblaze Comet (100)Quicksilver Swords (30)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 66 Yeah, but the problem is that (apart from Teclis) this is very vulnerable to powerful unbinding (Seraphon, Teclis, LoC), since you have no bonuses to cast. Still, it's a lot of AoE MWs for certain An alternative is to go all in for spell-free MWs Spoiler Allegiance: OrderLord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General- Celestine Hammer- Command Trait: Master of DefenseCelestant-Prime (340)Drakesworn Templar (420)- Tempest AxeThe Light of Eltharion (220)20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)10 x Arkanaut Company (90)Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Marcvs said: Yeah, but the problem is that (apart from Teclis) this is very vulnerable to powerful unbinding (Seraphon, Teclis, LoC), since you have no bonuses to cast. Still, it's a lot of AoE MWs for certain yes but, Teclis can cast 4 auto spells at 10! Depending on how much +to dispell the enemy gets, it's practically unstoppable, unless very very lucky! You could basically make enemy casters use all of their dispel attempts just with using Teclis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Marcvs said: An alternative is to go all in for spell-free MWs Hide contents Allegiance: OrderLord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General- Celestine Hammer- Command Trait: Master of DefenseCelestant-Prime (340)Drakesworn Templar (420)- Tempest AxeThe Light of Eltharion (220)20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)10 x Arkanaut Company (90)Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 87 You should try to Squeeze a regular Lord Celestant! He's also got a MW output at distance. Or a Knight Vexillor/Heraldor. They also got a MW output. I don't know for you guys, but to me, the most important thing is to get rid of heroes asap. If turn 1 you destroyed all enemy support heroes and damaged big monsters, it's almost over for the opponent. Edited July 2, 2020 by Maturin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Marcvs said: here we are slipping towards a LRL list The more you play in scrollbuilder the more it feels like when trying to add CoS units to SC - and they HAVE the 1 in 4 SC unit perk. Seraphon worked because you took Kroak and he was a perfect piece in the list. I think, so long as he survives GHB points cost adjustments, that's probably still the best Starcast list we have. 48 minutes ago, Marcvs said: gets you an incantor + comet To even say "starcast" I think we'd need this. Though the list can be totally new, Stormcast separated and just "Starsplash" lol 21 minutes ago, Maturin said: If turn 1 you destroyed all enemy support heroes and damaged big monsters, it's almost over for the opponent. Exactly, that's the core ideology of Starcast as a list. The extra tools (for me when I use it) are the beef of 2 dragons against hordes (combined with the maw attacks for hard to shift models of like 3 wounds and under). 26 minutes ago, Marcvs said: Allegiance: OrderLord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General- Celestine Hammer- Command Trait: Master of DefenseCelestant-Prime (340)Drakesworn Templar (420)- Tempest AxeThe Light of Eltharion (220)20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)10 x Arkanaut Company (90)Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 87 I love this except for painting 50 non SC models (when we really hope for a SC reboot soon) I'll be done by the time SC battletome arrives and it's square one again So I think there are two things to do - if one is bored: 1. build the best new list in light of LRL with as many SC models as possible (so that SC players here with no budget, no time to paint etc) can field a force relatively quickly with a few choice models. 2. Leave SC behind apart from those elements (if any) that support a "Starsplash" way of life. Edited July 2, 2020 by Turragor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Turragor said: To even say "starcast" I think we'd need this. Though the list can be totally new, Stormcast separated and just "Starsplash" lol Exactly, that's the core ideology of Starcast as a list. The extra tools (for me when I use it) are the beef of 2 dragons against hordes (combined with the maw attacks for hard to shift models of like 3 wounds and under). I love this except for painting 50 non SC models (when we really hope for a SC reboot soon) I'll be done by the time SC battletome arrives and it's square one again So I think there are two things to do - if one is bored: 1. build the best new list in light of LRL with as many SC models as possible (so that SC players here with no budget, no time to paint etc) can field a force relatively quickly with a few choice models. 2. Leave SC behind apart from those elements (if any) that support a "Starsplash" way of life. Prblem is our troops are not efficient compared to what we can find elsewhere. Starplash is the new Starcast! Edited July 2, 2020 by Maturin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 15 minutes ago, Turragor said: The more you play in scrollbuilder the more it feels like when trying to add CoS units to SC - and they HAVE the 1 in 4 SC unit perk. Seraphon worked because you took Kroak and he was a perfect piece in the list. I think, so long as he survives GHB points cost adjustments, that's probably still the best Starcast list we have. To even say "starcast" I think we'd need this. Though the list can be totally new, Stormcast separated and just "Starsplash" lol Exactly, that's the core ideology of Starcast as a list. The extra tools (for me when I use it) are the beef of 2 dragons against hordes (combined with the maw attacks for hard to shift models of like 3 wounds and under). I love this except for painting 50 non SC models (when we really hope for a SC reboot soon) I'll be done by the time SC battletome arrives and it's square one again So I think there are two things to do - if one is bored: 1. build the best new list in light of LRL with as many SC models as possible (so that SC players here with no budget, no time to paint etc) can field a force relatively quickly with a few choice models. 2. Leave SC behind apart from those elements (if any) that support a "Starsplash" way of life. on point 1, let's maximise the SC then (which, ofc, are less effective ). I don't know what to do with the 80 pts, but you can swap sentinels for exorcist+everblaze Spoiler Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General- Celestine HammerDrakesworn Templar (420)- Tempest AxeCelestant-Prime (340)The Light of Eltharion (220)- Allies5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers10 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (140)- AlliesTotal: 1920 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 360 / 400Wounds: 87 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Honestly, Teclis is way too strong to not take in a list. His MW splash spell does it in 18" around the caster. Imagine through a portal the damages it can do! Eltharion is also very good : cheap, tanky, Great MW output at distance. Great in melee. Almost an auto include. The problem I see is the Stormcast caster + meteore. IF we don't bring drakes, it's harder to cast. But if we do not bring another caster than Teclis, then drakes lose quite a bit of their utility.@Marcvs Why did you say that the Drakes ability is wasted on Teclis ? He can still benefit from their ability, albeit, when you already cast for sure at 10+ is there really a need to bring something that will give you 1+ ? Allegiance: OrderArchmage Teclis and Celennar, Spirit of Hysh (660)The Light of Eltharion (220)Lord-Exorcist (120)Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)- General- Celestine Hammer- Command Trait: Master of Defense- Artefact: Phoenix Stone5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & ShieldUmbral Spellportal (70)Everblaze Comet (100)Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 74 Teclis goes 4 spells at 11+ : Mystic shield on Eltharion. Portal. SPLASHMW EVERYWHEEEEERE and then 5+ save around him. LE goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Comet. Drakes goes "I'm Raining meeen er shooting stars". Eltharion goes : I'm a ninja with shurikens. No more heroes in front of you. You win in 1Turn goodbye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, Maturin said: @Marcvs Why did you say that the Drakes ability is wasted on Teclis ? He can still benefit from their ability, albeit, when you already cast for sure at 10+ is there really a need to bring something that will give you 1+ ? The auto-cast values of Teclis cannot be further modified (it's in the warscroll, if I remember correctly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 23 minutes ago, Marcvs said: The auto-cast values of Teclis cannot be further modified (it's in the warscroll, if I remember correctly) Yes you're right. I missed that. Ordered the box but still haven't received it. I feel like Teclis signature's spell are too powerful to pass up though . A 5++ on a drake (especially if we can still combine it with Ignax scales)and Eltharion ? Yes please. Allegiance: OrderArchmage Teclis and Celennar, Spirit of Hysh (660)The Light of Eltharion (220)Lord-Exorcist (120)Drakesworn Templar (420)- General- Storm Lance- Command Trait: Legendary Fighter- Artefact: HoarfrostSorceress (90)10 x Bleakswords (90)10 x Bleakswords (90)10 x Bleakswords (90)Umbral Spellportal (70)Everblaze Comet (100)Emerald Lifeswarm (50)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Maturin said: I feel like Teclis signature's spell are too powerful to pass up though . A 5++ on a drake (especially if we can still combine it with Ignax scales)and Eltharion ? Yes please. Storms... that thing is not keyword restricted 😮 well then, yes, probably auto include in whatever grand alliance list one can come up with. Bonkers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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