Starcast - The Thread

[Turragor]

2 hours ago, Raffonerd said:

The problem that I see it that your list has no clue.

You play a defensive item on the dragon with 30 models on the field. Which means that every unit can engage it without problems and overrun your objectives. (you autolose in buring objective missions). If you run pelt they must disengage (if they don't get killed directly with pail in). This means that you get space on the map to control the field/ he needs to play defensively. Also you need heraldor or you don't stand a chance in engaging first turn.

Second point: if you don't destroy heroes within 6 before combat phase, big units will die by hitting the dragon. This also makes them bshock and will balance the "low models list" that you have. That's you need comet, another endless + judicators for ensure the  kill.

If you don't start threaten your opponent you are going to lose everygame.

Your points about controlling the board are correct. It's the lists big weakness. 

There are lists like that out there though. Like the petrifex nagash + 40/20/10 mortek

[Raffonerd]

13 hours ago, Turragor said:

Your points about controlling the board are correct. It's the lists big weakness. 

There are lists like that out there though. Like the petrifex nagash + 40/20/10 mortek

That's way I'm underlining the fact that you have to play that list in an aggressive mode. Even if you are in a bad mutch up.

I think that with pelt and castellant the drake worth is point. Without it not.  (I'm pointing only Celestant)

Returning on why this list can be competitive now, the reason that I see is that other stormhost rely to much on CPs. Currently, all hosts are to much CP based.  (ossiarch CP stealing ability, bshock test,  command abilities). Staunch or tempest lord are the only solution to avoid that kind of problem.

Also, against hard magic match up you should have: 1 drake aoe + comet for -2 cast. 2 incantor for avoiding first turn endless spell. (usually tzeench, hallow, Sylva)

Against  hard mass: DoK, Skaven, korne, LoN, Ossiarch you should be totally fine.

I see only problems against FEC/Slanesh. But who has no problems agaisnt them?

Edited November 28, 2019 by Raffonerd

[Turragor]

Thanks for more feedback. I think being more aggressive is definitely something to try out for sure. 

[Raffonerd]

2 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Thanks for more feedback. I think being more aggressive is definitely something to try out for sure. 

Let us update bro! For sigmar.

[Maturin]

What about a 3 Drakesworn templar battalion + 3 libs + Lord Castellant, that's just 5 drops ?

[Turragor]

11 hours ago, Maturin said:

What about a 3 Drakesworn templar battalion + 3 libs + Lord Castellant, that's just 5 drops ?

There's something to be said for 3 rain of stars however the guaranteed mws from comet and prime comet are always adorable 

[Maturin]

15 hours ago, Turragor said:

There's something to be said for 3 rain of stars however the guaranteed mws from comet and prime comet are always adorable 

Don't forget they can heal themselves in a pinch and do even more MW

[Turragor]

If the rumoured points changes are true, this is a viable list now:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (560) -60
- Celestine Hammer
Drakesworn Templar (460) -40
- Tempest Axe
Drakesworn Templar (460) -40
- Tempest Axe
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Incantor (140)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2140 / 2000 (-140)
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 89
 

[Maturin]

IF only ^^. I'd like to see the Celestant prime getting a point reduction too!

[Turragor]

Confirmed! Lots of starcast options open now 

[Maturin]

2 hours ago, Turragor said:

Confirmed! Lots of starcast options open now 

Where did you confirm it's official ? I haven't suscribed to Azyr, there are no modifications in the warscroll builder and last but not least SCE faqs aren't up yet.

[Turragor]

4 hours ago, Maturin said:

Where did you confirm it's official ? I haven't suscribed to Azyr, there are no modifications in the warscroll builder and last but not least SCE faqs aren't up yet.

Just the points in azyr.

[Turragor]

What I can also do is add the Heraldor into the original list with the exorcist. That feels pretty potent. 

Comet 

Toot toot 

Rain of stars x2

Prime comet

Maybe more mws than needed for support hero castles 

[Turragor]

I think the best option is 10 skinks and an exorcist to incantor upgrade 

[crkhobbit]

What about the Temple battalion now?  Lots of points, but lots of MW, too, and low drops.

[Turragor]

13 hours ago, crkhobbit said:

What about the Temple battalion now?  Lots of points, but lots of MW, too, and low drops.

I think it's worth testing out, I'll probably have it as 3rd or 4th test list. I prefer at least 1 LCoSD as their durability is much better. 

The temple costs 1400 which (with 300 lib tax) gives you 300 points to play with! 

[XReN]

Following this now

That is a cool list, really exited about literaly bringing the wrath of heavens upon the enemy!

Have you thought about taking 2 Lords Celestant instead of any templars and bringing Spellmirror from Ulgu with them for 5+ ignore spells aura?

[Turragor]

10 hours ago, XReN said:

Following this now

That is a cool list, really exited about literaly bringing the wrath of heavens upon the enemy!

Have you thought about taking 2 Lords Celestant instead of any templars and bringing Spellmirror from Ulgu with them for 5+ ignore spells aura?

Originally 2 x LCoSDs was more pts than I thought would work but now it's not actually ridiculous. The main issue is you tend to want the Castellant with the LCoSD. The saving from the LCoSDs will buy you an extra castellant now. hmm I wonder.

You'd still want to do a lot of long range chip mws so maybe that's going too defensive... but you're getting 2x Rain of stars and the shields give you reflect mws (which are also awesome). Perhaps a variant "hedgehog" version of starcast?

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Incantor (140)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Total: 1880 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 84
 

120 pts over for (probably) some more bodies. 10 x Shadow Warriors? That's not bad.

 

You could also take a comet and aren't losing out that many mws (the prime's comet is nice though).

Edited December 18, 2019 by Turragor

[Scurvydog]

I have been looking into the following list:

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Prayer: Divine Light
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
6 x Desolators (600)
5 x Protectors (180)
- 2x Starsoul Maces

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107

 

This is with the note that in my meta mortal wounds are common, with Ogor charges, boingrotz charges and Sylvaneht magic flying around, also a lot of monsters all the time.

The idea is to use heroes to buff the stardrake and desolators and form a rock wall of death, while raining mortal wounds in the shooting phase. The rest is motly objective grabbing and the protectors, while not an optimal unit as such, is intended as backup in reserve, to come down where needed and assist the stardrake if it gets too bogged down in Stonehorns, Mangler Squigs or the like, as both the bite and tail is useless then...

I want to include all kinds of heroes, but got a hard time choosing, as bodies is a real issue. I want a castellant at least, maybe even 2, but it seems hard to fit. A Relictor seems too good to pass up as well, with both the possible heals or mortal wounds and -1 to hit debuff as well has divine light. His ranges are low however and might have a harder time keeping up. The Incantor seems like a good idea to bring as well, as the list is so vulnerable to mortal wounds, having at least a dispell can be a life saver and that 1 use auto dispell at the most critical time, getting +1 cast from the drake is useful too.

The Judicators are there to hold backline objetives and will probably holds the liberators in reserve as well, to get down where they need to be, while the dragons start on the table..

Maybe I am missing some obvious low hanging fruit, and maybe choosing ignax is not the way to go for the celestant, but with all the mortal wounds flying around, I fear he will go down very quickly without, although I also considered the pelt mentioned several times here or possibly the Jade Diadem for all purpose surviveability and heal the ranged and spell dmg instead.

In addition does anyone know the order of all these mortal wound reflects and heal on saves. For example if the drake is at max wounds and gets attacked by an enemy unit. The Drake takes 8 damage but also has castellant buffs and healed 3 wounds from that. Is the healing applied after or before the damage? 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Scurvydog

[Turragor]

2 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

castellant buffs and healed 3 wounds from that. Is the healing applied after or before the damage? 

It's wounds taken not being applied so a drake is weak to anything that puts in 16 wounds total when all is said and done (regardless of 5s or 6s to save). Not much can do that though. 

Like the more bodies angle for your list but my preference is to reduce the need for them with more mws (which has its own risks). 

Finding your own balance is key. I've played this variation of stormcast so much now that I've been losing not because of lack bodies at all. 

However the extra bodies are a cushion against the misplays that cost me games 

[Scurvydog]

11 minutes ago, Turragor said:

It's wounds taken not being applied so a drake is weak to anything that puts in 16 wounds total when all is said and done (regardless of 5s or 6s to save). Not much can do that though. 

Ah yea of course. Saves and as a result healing, is applied when the save happens after a wound roll, while no actual damage is allocated to the model until the final step. Hmm yea that makes it far less useful though, and far more risky to run into a unit of say 8 ironguts for example, as you can't cushion the damage taken with healing during that combat phase if the drake is already at max HP, it does help a bit still though to more easily choose to fight second and prioritize concussors for example.

So it is pretty much a toss up between ignax and the pelt I guess, offense vs defense. I can see the use of the pelt making the drake the battleline clearer, as both the tail swipe and bite are just about useless against larger models. My drake is completely inept when facing my friends Beastclaw riders, as even mournfang are at 6 wounds, so can't bite anything at all (had hoped they would errata this to do something against larger models).

[Turragor]

15 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Ah yea of course. Saves and as a result healing, is applied when the save happens after a wound roll, while no actual damage is allocated to the model until the final step. Hmm yea that makes it far less useful though, and far more risky to run into a unit of say 8 ironguts for example, as you can't cushion the damage taken with healing during that combat phase if the drake is already at max HP, it does help a bit still though to more easily choose to fight second and prioritize concussors for example.

So it is pretty much a toss up between ignax and the pelt I guess, offense vs defense. I can see the use of the pelt making the drake the battleline clearer, as both the tail swipe and bite are just about useless against larger models. My drake is completely inept when facing my friends Beastclaw riders, as even mournfang are at 6 wounds, so can't bite anything at all (had hoped they would errata this to do something against larger models).

I must say that in my 50 or more tournament games with a LCoSD it's died only a handful of times. 

You need to meet the likes of a celestant prime (off board till R3) or gotrek before it's any melee to worry about. 

Terrorgheists and hearth guard berserkers get you with their mws more than melee profiles 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Turragor

[Salt_merchant]

Im loving this thread @Turragor, the world would be a better place if more star drakes took the field

 

ANy thoughts on what you think would be the most competitive star drake list with the new points decreases?

 

are drakesworn templars now cheap enough to consider taking a second drake?

 

[Turragor]

8 hours ago, Salt_merchant said:

Im loving this thread @Turragor, the world would be a better place if more star drakes took the field

 

ANy thoughts on what you think would be the most competitive star drake list with the new points decreases?

 

are drakesworn templars now cheap enough to consider taking a second drake?

 

I want to test 2 Starcast lists as soon as xmas family commitments are out of the way:

1. My last touney list with incantor upgrade & skinks

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- Celestine Hammer
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Incantor (140)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
10 x Skinks (70)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
- Allies
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 70 / 400
Wounds: 91
 

2. Maximising the mw burst

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Celestant-Prime (340)
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
Knight-Incantor (140)

Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 60 / 400
Wounds: 91

 

The 60 allied pts are optional here. I like the scourgerunner chariot on paper. Spite revenants are also 60.

 

In the 1st list Id take staunch defender & shardfist pelt on LCoSD and azyrite halo for incantor.

In 2nd there are more chamber, trait, artefact options as theres no lcosd.

 

My gut is telling me that the 2nd option is going to really annoy some opponents

 

[Scurvydog]

I have been looking around but unable to find a 100% clear answer on the Stardrake bites, after running into some discussion about it.

It is not a melee weapon and does not work like one, the ability says for each bite you select a model within 3" and roll a dice, beating the wound characteristic removes the model. Now what I am wondering, by the sound of it you choose a model and roll and remove if succesful, then bite again as many times as able. Is that how it works, or do you have to allocate all the available bites, even though it is not regular attacks?