Starcast - The Thread

[Turragor]

4 hours ago, Maturin said:

But going Drakes + racoths would make a better use of the few commands points we have.

I tend to use CP for 6" runs for objectives and rr 1s to hit on the Prime - it's not that great but I'm usually satisfied with spending them thusly

[rogue_michael]

8 minutes ago, Turragor said:

I am 90% sure I read this in a designers commentary somewhere but units that can be wizards don't get a dispell right? Just a warscroll spell, lore spell (if applicable) and an unbind.

I don't remember ever seeing that, to be honest. I thought it just took the opportunity to cast a spell, which you then use for a dispel instead.

It wasn't what I was getting the ruling on specifically, but I got a ruling from the TO of the tournament I went to involving the extra spell cast evokitties get when they slow down time with the cogs, and part of that was that they still got their dispel (my question was with regard to them taking Blades stopping them casting any other spells) 

(Obviously that's not a GW ruling, but an experienced opinion)

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by rogue_michael

[Turragor]

2 minutes ago, rogue_michael said:

I don't remember ever seeing that, to be honest. I thought it just took the opportunity to cast a spell, which you then use for a dispel instead.

It wasn't what I was getting the ruling on specifically, but I got a ruling from the TO of the tournament I went to involving the extra spell cast evokitties get when they slow down time with the cogs, and part of that was that they still got their dispel (my question was with regard to them taking Blades stopping them casting any other spells) 

 

 

 

IF they can dispell they are a very good addition to the list (without a LAoCD). They pack a bit of a punch, they throw out more mws, they are fast & they can  dispell the comet or use another lore spell. They're a 10 wound (they lose wizard status at 1 model) crazy combat wizard.

[rogue_michael]

@Turragor Is it possible you're thinking of this, from the Malign Sorcery Designer's Commentary?

Quote

Q: Sometimes an ability will allow a model to attempt to unbind a spell. Does this also allow them to dispel an endless spell?
A: No. It will allow them to attempt to unbind the endless spell when it is cast, but has no effect on endless spells that are on the battlefield unless specifically noted otherwise.

Which is to do with, say, artefacts that grant an unbind to a non-wizard, but not a spell cast. If so, Evokitties are fine as their warscroll specifies they get a spell cast (and an unbind) when they're a wizard. What spells they can then cast with it means they can't cast endless spells, but I can't see any reason they not be able to dispel instead of casting.

Edited February 12, 2020 by rogue_michael
typo

[Turragor]

Just now, rogue_michael said:

@Turragor Is it possible you're thinking of this, from the Malign Sorcery Designer's Commentary?

Which is to do with, say, artefacts that grant an unbind to a non-wizard, but not a spell cast. If so, Evokitties are fine as their warscroll specifies then get a spell cast (and an unbind) when they're a wizard. What spells they can then cast with it means they can't cast endless spells, but I can't see any reason they not be able to dispel instead of casting.

I think you've nailed it, it's the dawning of a new age, the age of cometcat lists

[rogue_michael]

10 minutes ago, Turragor said:

I think you've nailed it, it's the dawning of a new age, the age of cometcat lists

Cometcats currently 0 and 7... 😅

[Turragor]

52 minutes ago, rogue_michael said:

Cometcats currently 0 and 7... 😅

Well we didn't establish the quality of the age, just that it is dawning and it is new.

[Lucur]

Has anyone tried using xbow Judicators with Starcast? You get to remove heroes, you got big tanky drakes to pin stuff and you can cripple elite units with MW output, what the list lacks is crowd control. 3×5 Liberators may be way cheaper, but crossbows are actually really good damage for the points, as long as they are protected. They can tick the battleline box and contribute to the gameplan. And if it's for style, the CAN add mortal wounds, too

[Naem]

15 hours ago, readercolin said:

I think that if you want to have the maximum mixture of Starcast and Kitties, that you would want to start here and test it out:

Lord-Celestant on Stardrake
    General
    Staunch Defender
Celestant-Prime
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline
    Pride Leader
6 Evocators on Celestial Dracoline
3x 5 Liberators
Everblaze Comet

This gives you the core of starcast, which is the Stardrake, Celestant-Prime, and Everblaze Comet.  The comet is castable by the Lord-Arcanum, and you have 3 major threats that your opponent has to deal with in the drake, the prime, and the kitties.

However, there are a few standout problems with this list.  First off, there is no space for a Castellent.  This also reduces the benefits of taking staunch defender, which makes taking a different stormhost a bit more appealing.  Second, you only have a single caster for your comet, which makes that a bit less reliable.  That being said, dropping the comet does open up the space to bring a castellent, but then you are reducing your chip damage.

How about:

 

Stardrake

Prime

Castellant

Exorcist

3x5 Libs

6x Evos on Kitties

1x Comet

 

Thats my take on the Stardrake and Kitties menu and I find that it works quite well. I don't really miss the Lord Arcanum and rather drop him then losing the benefits of the Castellant. But the problem with only having one caster stays

[VytisXIX]

Can a starcast list work at 1500 level? I have a tourney coming up, would live to take stardrake for his first ride

would anyone have a tried example?

[Marcvs]

50 minutes ago, VytisXIX said:

Can a starcast list work at 1500 level? I have a tourney coming up, would live to take stardrake for his first ride

would anyone have a tried example?

I haven't tried this (when I played my last 1500 pts game I didn't own a prime yet, so I had 3 ballistas + LO in the mix), but it could something like:

Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
Knight-Incantor (140)
Lord-Castellant (120)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 1400 / 2000
 

and you got 100 points for another 5 libs (if 3 battlelines are required) / a spellweaver / an heraldor
 

[VytisXIX]

7 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

I haven't tried this (when I played my last 1500 pts game I didn't own a prime yet, so I had 3 ballistas + LO in the mix), but it could something like:

Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
Knight-Incantor (140)
Lord-Castellant (120)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 1400 / 2000
 

and you got 100 points for another 5 libs (if 3 battlelines are required) / a spellweaver / an heraldor
 

I had this exact list laid out. No idea how it would play though. What are the key tactics to follow? Artifacts and traits?

[Marcvs]

24 minutes ago, VytisXIX said:

I had this exact list laid out. No idea how it would play though. What are the key tactics to follow? Artifacts and traits?

Ok, so, people in this thread can surely give you better tips on strategy and all. Here's how I (still very much a noob but with a lot of good will ) play this:

traits & co. :

Castellant on drake general (Staunch defender, Storm-Winged, Ignax Scales)

Incantor with azyrite halo

 

general strategy: use the MW from rain of stars, everblaze comet, prime's scepter to kill support heroes, then clear the rest (now unbuffed)

a few strategy tips out of the top of my head:

- the Stardrake is your anvil, buffed with staunch defender, ignax scales, lantern from castellant (and potentially azyrite halo, but that's not required) it is extremely hard to damage, let alone kill. Unless the enemy has some super dangrous thing (tons of rend 2 / MW output), I try to put it straight in the line of fire. It looks big and scary and it tends to draw a lot of attention

- the celestant prime come down on t1 to maximize shooting output. If possible, I try to keep it in staunch defender range to help with survivability. If the enmy focuses it, you can also shift the lantern and azyrite halo here

- if you have the luxury of two casters, try to deploy one very deep, outside unbind range (but inside the buff of the drake, which is 18"), to cast the comet undisturbed

- try to have the drake engage the biggest blob of infantry, even tying down more than one unit thanks to the big base. Lots of attacks are great to proc lantern / shield / halo and big numbers ensure the damage from the tail. Use the jaws to eat banners / musicians / champions, if they already activated you also try to break their coherence

- grabbing and holding objectives is what I find more difficult (unless is a battleplan where heroes grab them). Use the libs for this, I often deploy them in azyr to this end, but you might want one unit down for "look out sir" purposes

- remember to proc storm-winged when moving, charging and (potentially) piling in

[Turragor]

1 hour ago, Marcvs said:

Ok, so, people in this thread can surely give you better tips on strategy and all. Here's how I (still very much a noob but with a lot of good will ) play this:

traits & co. :

Castellant on drake general (Staunch defender, Storm-Winged, Ignax Scales)

Incantor with azyrite halo

 

general strategy: use the MW from rain of stars, everblaze comet, prime's scepter to kill support heroes, then clear the rest (now unbuffed)

a few strategy tips out of the top of my head:

- the Stardrake is your anvil, buffed with staunch defender, ignax scales, lantern from castellant (and potentially azyrite halo, but that's not required) it is extremely hard to damage, let alone kill. Unless the enemy has some super dangrous thing (tons of rend 2 / MW output), I try to put it straight in the line of fire. It looks big and scary and it tends to draw a lot of attention

- the celestant prime come down on t1 to maximize shooting output. If possible, I try to keep it in staunch defender range to help with survivability. If the enmy focuses it, you can also shift the lantern and azyrite halo here

- if you have the luxury of two casters, try to deploy one very deep, outside unbind range (but inside the buff of the drake, which is 18"), to cast the comet undisturbed

- try to have the drake engage the biggest blob of infantry, even tying down more than one unit thanks to the big base. Lots of attacks are great to proc lantern / shield / halo and big numbers ensure the damage from the tail. Use the jaws to eat banners / musicians / champions, if they already activated you also try to break their coherence

- grabbing and holding objectives is what I find more difficult (unless is a battleplan where heroes grab them). Use the libs for this, I often deploy them in azyr to this end, but you might want one unit down for "look out sir" purposes

- remember to proc storm-winged when moving, charging and (potentially) piling in

This is all good stuff. After dialling in your ranges (at deployment and each time you move the dragon - you want to always have lantern and lineage in range. Ideally Azyrite Halo but maybe you're doing a repeat comet cast), overall army deployment is pretty important.

You're playing an interesting game of poker as the enemy will often choose who goes first and I personally have found Starcast is one of the few lists where you want to deploy defensively and take turn 1. Usually you deploy aggressively if you want turn 1. The most common is to deploy defensively, give away turn 1 - let enemy come to you.

So in that sense I am almost always given turn 1 and the enemy is often ready for their first hero phase - bunkered in a lovely explodable mass of flesh.

But, until Starcast gets popular and ppl know (then I need to think more) you want to be ready for going first but not make it obvious you are going first so the enemy takes it, buffs their units and splits up.

Basically I usually have castellant with gryph hound and LCoSD deployed cautiously for warding lantern if Im given r1 but out of reach of enemy threats if enemy takes r1.

Ill have the caster (if solo) deployed out of range of all enemy casters (usually last model down) and in range of drake(s) arcane lineage buffs. I rarely fail to cast comet if given r1. If two casters I'd have one within walking distance of unbinding the comet r2 hero phase. This caster wouldn't be the comet caster. Comet range is wholly within 36 iirc and range 10 so 46 in effect. It is never out of range in my experience.

Prime Ill have in the sky always.

So that's 4 units on the ground (ish) and the rest I usually adapt to enemy list. With 4 on the ground and the prime aside, my 9 drop list can have the rest in the air to guarantee reaching objectives r1 (unless its like duality where I want one unit to move onto the obj and not deploy to count as in control of it at end of round). In the air is great for waiting until r3 to take undefended objectives.

However, maybe I want a screen if its a fast aggressive list. Sometimes the libs are just roadbumps and 1 hero holds an objective as the opponent tries to get their head around their missing buff support.

Sometimes I screen the rest of my army with my drakes (a strange but effective screen if the enemy wants to eliminate my other weaker supporting units first.

Most of the action - your dream start - with this list is a great shooting phase r1 after a strong comet drop.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Turragor

[Maturin]

On 2/12/2020 at 10:37 PM, Turragor said:

I think you've nailed it, it's the dawning of a new age, the age of cometcat lists

I'm looking for the age of the Thundercats!

[Marcvs]

On 2/13/2020 at 10:18 AM, Marcvs said:

Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
Knight-Incantor (140)
Lord-Castellant (120)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 1400 / 2000

While I was writing this down I noticed a nice feature of this list. When you add the third liberator battleline you got a very neat 1500 points list which is very close to the "core" Starcast @Turragor formalised before -ok, you don't *need* the incantor so you could still save 20 points going exorcist but then you loose the nice round value

Now, in my very partial (I only played this once every weekend for the last two months) very noobish experience with the list, this core is great at what it does: killing support heroes (mid-range ones as well) and providing a very nice very distracting anvil in the drake. The two problems I encounter when playing it, even when I win are: 1) threatening/grabbing objectives which are far from my depolyment zone (if the battleplan has them, ofc) and 2) dealing with tough single models -either the gods/"gods" or mawcrushas/stonehorns and the like. This of course might be just me doing something wrong, so feel free to shoot any advice that comes to your mind

Conclusion: I have to use the nice and round 500 points left to deal with those. So far, I focused on issue 2, taking 3 ballistas + LO, and they do seem to work but do not help with issue 1 at all. In all the matches, even those I won (a surprising majority, considering my limited experience), I struggled with far away objectives, sometimes only grabbing them at the very last useful moment to ensure a victory. Is it possible to address both issues with the 500 points left?

In the coming weeks I will try leaning more on the other side, including some allies, either a) 20 + 10 shadow warriors to place, hopefully in cover, in the enemy backyard, or (more hipster) b) a gunhauler + 6 endrinriggers to fly around every turn. Both options leave enough points to include a second incantor, which is an added bonus. Option a) has a lot of bodies and decent shooting (when in cover), option b) has crazy mobility, a few bodies and some shooting. Any thoughts on these options? Should I use my (limited) time for practicing with better ideas? I am going to my first tounrment in April, a 50-persons event, and I am now settled on bringing the Starcast list, so now it's just a matter of deciding how to spend these 500 points.

Ok, sorry for the long-winded tirade which I could have probably summarised in a few bulletpoints.

 

[Turragor]

7 hours ago, Marcvs said:

While I was writing this down I noticed a nice feature of this list. When you add the third liberator battleline you got a very neat 1500 points list which is very close to the "core" Starcast @Turragor formalised before -ok, you don't *need* the incantor so you could still save 20 points going exorcist but then you loose the nice round value

Now, in my very partial (I only played this once every weekend for the last two months) very noobish experience with the list, this core is great at what it does: killing support heroes (mid-range ones as well) and providing a very nice very distracting anvil in the drake. The two problems I encounter when playing it, even when I win are: 1) threatening/grabbing objectives which are far from my depolyment zone (if the battleplan has them, ofc) and 2) dealing with tough single models -either the gods/"gods" or mawcrushas/stonehorns and the like. This of course might be just me doing something wrong, so feel free to shoot any advice that comes to your mind

Conclusion: I have to use the nice and round 500 points left to deal with those. So far, I focused on issue 2, taking 3 ballistas + LO, and they do seem to work but do not help with issue 1 at all. In all the matches, even those I won (a surprising majority, considering my limited experience), I struggled with far away objectives, sometimes only grabbing them at the very last useful moment to ensure a victory. Is it possible to address both issues with the 500 points left?

In the coming weeks I will try leaning more on the other side, including some allies, either a) 20 + 10 shadow warriors to place, hopefully in cover, in the enemy backyard, or (more hipster) b) a gunhauler + 6 endrinriggers to fly around every turn. Both options leave enough points to include a second incantor, which is an added bonus. Option a) has a lot of bodies and decent shooting (when in cover), option b) has crazy mobility, a few bodies and some shooting. Any thoughts on these options? Should I use my (limited) time for practicing with better ideas? I am going to my first tounrment in April, a 50-persons event, and I am now settled on bringing the Starcast list, so now it's just a matter of deciding how to spend these 500 points.

Ok, sorry for the long-winded tirade which I could have probably summarised in a few bulletpoints.

 

It is the main question with the list. Interestingly, when I play I haven't had to worry about controlling objectives a whole lot after a good 2 rounds of starcasting. Perhaps it is luck in the matchups I've had. The ones where I struggled most was against 6 stonehorns and a whole bunch of OBR.

I do not fancy painting up 12 more but... I wonder if 5 x 3 Prosecutors with Javelins is something here. 15 extra bodies, good move (great), and outside 9" they do ok damage, because of the primes - which leads me to my main worry: I feel pushing the drops up that high is a bit risky

[Maturin]

18 hours ago, Turragor said:

I do not fancy painting up 12 more but... I wonder if 5 x 3 Prosecutors with Javelins is something here. 15 extra bodies, good move (great), and outside 9" they do ok damage, because of the primes - which leads me to my main worry: I feel pushing the drops up that high is a bit risky

I've never met great success with my Javelines Prosecutors :(. I heard they're good.
From a mobilty point of view, nothing beats aetherwings!

[Malakithe]

Tell me more about this cometcat list...i do love me some thundercats

[Turragor]

27 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Tell me more about this cometcat list...i do love me some thundercats

If I had 6 dracolines I'd try:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Command Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (520)
- 3x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 95
 

But I've never played the evocators on dracoline unit so I may not fully grasp how essential the LAoCD is. 

That's the list I'd start with whilst trialling them though. 

[Turragor]

I've a small tournament on Saturday but there are a bunch of new players so I am taking a Nurgle list instead to try out the new WoE rules.

I think its a good sign when I dont want to take my Starcast list as newbies will be crushed

I'm a bit sad I don't get to test a new list variant out, but I'm kinda happy with a few I've tested already.

[Maturin]

4 minutes ago, Turragor said:

I've a small tournament on Saturday but there are a bunch of new players so I am taking a Nurgle list instead to try out the new WoE rules.

I think its a good sign when I dont want to take my Starcast list as newbies will be crushed

I'm a bit sad I don't get to test a new list variant out, but I'm kinda happy with a few I've tested already.

Nurgle s ability to go pick nurgles rain is quite strong too

[Marcvs]

I finally got to play against a "heavy" list of BCR (ok not 6 heavies, but still 4 of them) in The Better Part of Valour. After tinkering with allies for increased mobility, I brought my list with ballistas for this game:
 

Spoiler

 

LCoSD

Prime

Incantor

Castellant

Ordinator

3x5 Libs

3 Ballistas

Comet

 

Managed to win 10 to 8 (my points were from keeping an objective for the whole game + 2 dropping 5 libs behind the enemy lines). I think I won due to mistakes of my opponent, notably him developing tunnel vision in trying to kill the drake and not spreading his beasts to grab all my objectives -the drake survived three charges and healed back afterwards thanks to the rend 1 attacks. Still, I don't know how I would have managed without the balliastas, so I think I am back to this list as the one I plan to bring to my first tournament

Picture just for fun

Spoiler

 

 

[Turragor]

You're makin me want to get ballistas painted 

 

[Marcvs]

17 hours ago, Turragor said:

You're makin me want to get ballistas painted 

 

ahah well, don't know at all if they're viable at higher skill level -everyone in the forum/discord seems to agree that they aren't.

Personally I find that they provide a lot of punch and diversification in terms of wounds for this list (high rend normal wounds vs MW), plus the enemy tends not to focus them, favoring the drake or the prime. Also, with the ordinator they are essentially "self contained" and don't need much in terms of synergies. Of course they are somewhat swingy, but in my experience so far they end up paying for their cost and then some.