Warhammer - The Old World

[JackStreicher]

5 minutes ago, CDM said:

 

It seems like 28mm

 

AoS is 32mm+ and Epic Scale

Lotr is 28mm real-scale(ish)
 

[Panzer]

48 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Hey, I'm an AoS and WFB fun. So a bit of both worlds.

But like I said before, AoS players don't just insult the other players and say that the game is just an abortion (said in this web page, an AoS friendly forum...). I mean, if you want to sound funny, that's nice, but don't try to sound like  a moron. 

You must have been living under a rock then. I've seen plenty AoS players insulting WHFB fans who prefer the old system over the new one. In the end there are the same kinds of people in both communities, just with different preferences. Neither group is morally above the other, it's always just individuals and those exist in both groups.

 

11 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

AoS is 32mm+ and Epic Scale

Lotr is 28mm real-scale(ish)
 

No, AoS is still very much 28mm heroic scale. Nothing has changed about that.

[JackStreicher]

4 minutes ago, Panzer said:

You must have been living under a rock then. I've seen plenty AoS players insulting WHFB fans who prefer the old system over the new one. In the end there are the same kinds of people in both communities, just with different preferences. Neither group is morally above the other, it's always just individuals and those exist in both groups.

 

No, AoS is still very much 28mm heroic scale. Nothing has changed about that.

I model tabletop minis as a freelancer, even WHF was 32mm already 

the last time I measured a Namartii it had 34mm to eye-height.

Edited November 16, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Panzer]

5 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I model tabletop minis as a freelancer, even WHF was 32mm already 

the last time I measured a Namartii it had 34mm to eye-height.

I guess we have to agree to disagree then. And the fact that you model minis as a freelancer doesn't mean anything as I don't own any of your minis to judge your skills as a modeler.

[JackStreicher]

5 minutes ago, Panzer said:

I guess we have to agree to disagree then. And the fact that you model minis as a freelancer doesn't mean anything as I don't own any of your minis to judge your skills as a modeler.

You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Just google it if you don‘t believe me 😉 And pls try not to channel your inner Dunham Krueger.

if this was about opinion we could disagree but you don‘t know the facts and you seem to ignore them.

also: Skill determines scale, interesting indeed, you could also just measure any of your models

bloodwarrior: 34mm to eye height.

Edited November 16, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Panzer]

2 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Just google it if you don‘t believe me 😉 And pls try not to channel your inner Dunham Krueger.

if this was about opinion we could disagree but you don‘t know the facts and you seem to ignore them.

I do know what I'm talking about though and about the Dunham Krueger ... firstly that's a low blow and secondly right back at you.

I suggest we drop this though as it's pretty offtopic and pointless. If you think this is 32mm more power to you. I made my statement and stay by it. (that's btw. also the reason why I said agree to disagree. I simply don't care about arguing with you)  

Edited November 16, 2019 by Panzer

[Beliman]

8 minutes ago, Panzer said:

You must have been living under a rock then. I've seen plenty AoS players insulting WHFB fans who prefer the old system over the new one. In the end there are the same kinds of people in both communities, just with different preferences. Neither group is morally above the other, it's always just individuals and those exist in both groups.

Wtf are you talking about? Where were you been betwen 2015-2017? Just check Warseer, Dakka Dakka, Ulthuan Forum, Carpe Noctum, Bugman's Brewery, Reddit r/Warhhammer, etc... I'm not talking about pointless arguments about "my game is better" o " I have bigger ****** than you". I'm talking about people insulting the game and the players.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's a fact. You can look up (just aim for 2015-2017 posts).

[JackStreicher]

10 minutes ago, Panzer said:

I do know what I'm talking about though and about the Dunham Krueger ... firstly that's a low blow and secondly right back at you.

I suggest we drop this though as it's pretty offtopic and pointless. If you think this is 32mm more power to you. I made my statement and stay by it. (that's btw. also the reason why I said agree to disagree. I simply don't care about arguing with you)  

I am sorry if I am triggered by ignorance. But ignorance seems to work for people sometimes (Certain presidents).

you are plainly wrong as matter of fact, it‘s your decision to ignore that and stay misinformed however, so let‘s just stop It right here after this information:

(Talking about feet to eye-line measures)
WHF started out as a 28mm scale game, it slowly creeped up to a 32mm scale by 8th edition. AoS is mostly considered to be a 34-36mm game. Either read up on this or just measure your AoS Models.

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Panzer]

5 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I am sorry if I am triggered by ignorance. But ignorance seems to work for people sometimes (Certain presidents).

you are plainly wrong as matter of fact, it‘s your decision to ignore that and stay misinformed however, so let‘s just stop It right here after this information:

(Talking about feet to eye-line measures)
WHF started out as a 28mm scale game, it slowly creeped up to a 32mm scale by 8th edition. AoS is mostly considered to be a 34-36mm game. Either read up on this or just measure your AoS Models.

 

lmao comparing regular humans with Marines and regular Marines with Primaris. Just because a model is taller it's not in a different scale. They are taller in-universe as well, so that's perfectly fine.

I'm done.

[Panzer]

13 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Wtf are you talking about? Where were you been betwen 2015-2017? Just check Warseer, Dakka Dakka, Ulthuan Forum, Carpe Noctum, Bugman's Brewery, Reddit r/Warhhammer, etc... I'm not talking about pointless arguments about "my game is better" o " I have bigger ****** than you". I'm talking about people insulting the game and the players.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's a fact. You can look up (just aim for 2015-2017 posts).

I didn't say that didn't happen. I'm saying that it goes the other direction as well. The only bubble bursting here is yours as I'm not denying anything.

[JackStreicher]

4 minutes ago, Panzer said:

lmao comparing regular humans with Marines and regular Marines with Primaris. Just because a model is taller it's not in a different scale. They are taller in-universe as well, so that's perfectly fine.

I'm done.

ALL REGULAR HUMANS ARE 32mm-34mm already OPEN YOUR EYES.

 but hey just stay a Trump. I rest my case, the ignorance is strong in you.

Another one for the ignore list.

Edited November 16, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Panzer]

1 minute ago, JackStreicher said:

ALL REGULAR HUMANS ARE 32mm-34mm already OPEN YOUR EYES.
Aha, there are regular humans in the top, but hey just stay a Trump. I rest my case, the ignorance is strong in you.

Another one for the ignore list.

Wow talk about ignorant. I guess the Dunning Kruger effect applies to you this time, friend.

[sandlemad]

****** GW, why are they releasing Skirmish? They’re only going to split the fan base and start a civil war. AoS is doomed.

****** GW, why are they releasing Underworlds? They’re only going to split the fan base and start a civil war. AoS is doomed.

****** GW, why are they releasing Warcry? They’re only going to split the fan base and start a civil war. AoS is doomed.

 

[Beliman]

16 minutes ago, Panzer said:

I didn't say that didn't happen. I'm saying that it goes the other direction as well. The only bubble bursting here is yours as I'm not denying anything.

LOL. Nobody has denied that!! Of course the debate between both games is something (in my view) healthy. Constructive arguments are always good, and of course some pepople are going to take it personal in some points (I think that's what you are talking about...). Like I said, AoS for me seems to be a "beta"  than a full fleshed game.
At least you should read my posts if you want to answer me. I said that  one crowd (and not every WHF fun, just a loudy crowd on internet) just started insulting (ignoring any type of debate) both the game and the players.

Looking how arey you answering other people, I must say that I understand a lot now.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Beliman

[EccentricCircle]

28 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I am sorry if I am triggered by ignorance. But ignorance seems to work for people sometimes (Certain presidents).

you are plainly wrong as matter of fact, it‘s your decision to ignore that and stay misinformed however, so let‘s just stop It right here after this information:

(Talking about feet to eye-line measures)
WHF started out as a 28mm scale game, it slowly creeped up to a 32mm scale by 8th edition. AoS is mostly considered to be a 34-36mm game. Either read up on this or just measure your AoS Models.

 

While from a practical standpoint you are completely correct, its also worth noting that GW have never, to my knowledge, acknowledged that they have a scale creep problem. Warhammer is still widely considered to be a 28mm scale game, and that is reflected in movement values etc, even though in practice it is played with oversized models.

It probably doesn't help that GW is large enough that they can more or less flaunt scale standards to their hearts content. They don't really need to worry about telling anyone how big there minis are, since most people will be playing with GW minis. In fact I'd dare say that they'd much rather that warhammer fans stayed loyal to their brand and never looked at another minis company, so telling them which model ranges are at the same scale, or even making models to be compatible with other ranges isn't really a priority.

[RuneBrush]

+++ MOD HAT +++

Come on folks, some of the comments on here are getting really personal and not what we expect or allow on TGA.  As I've said numerous times before, if you wish to rant, take it elsewhere.  As a warning, if people persist on going down this route I'm more than happy to start issue warnings...

[Panzer]

9 minutes ago, Beliman said:

LOL. Nobody has denied that!! Of course the debate between both games is something (in my view) healthy. Constructive arguments are always good, and of course some pepople are going to take it personal in some points (I think that's what you are talking about...). Like I said, AoS for me seems to be a "beta"  than a full fleshed game.
At least you should read my posts if you want to answer me. I said that  one crowd (and not every WHF fun, just a loudy crowd on internet) just started insulting (ignoring any type of debate) both the game and the players.

Uhm it seems you aren't understanding what I'm saying. I was merely pointing out that it wasn't a unique thing to the WHFB crowd as that's how your post made it sound. Nothing more nothing less. If you didn't mean it like that I apologize for misunderstanding.

 

11 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Looking how arey you answering other people, I must say that I understand a lot now.

Don't worry, my back and forth with JackStreicher is not the norm. He's just the kind of person I just can't deal with.

[Beliman]

New information:
Yesterday's stream, Tony Cottrell (one of the Forgeworld lead designers) talked about "Warhammer The Old World". It seems that it can be a side project from the Forge World team and not from the Warhammer Studio, like the preview pointed. 
That doesn't mean a lot because warhammer 30k seems to have a solid ruleset. The worst part of the anouncement is the "3" years waiting. 

No problem @Panzer , that was my fault (I'm not an english speaker and my posts are a bit "orthopedic" and most of the times I have problems to say what I have in mind).

Edited November 16, 2019 by Beliman

[Panzer]

8 minutes ago, Beliman said:

New information:
The stream from yesterday, Tony Cottrell (one of the Forgeworld elad designers) talked about Warhammer The Old World. Maybe it will not be part of the main Warhammer Studio and more a side project for Forgeworld.

Well yeah, he was in the teaser video, it got announced on a Friday which is the day FW stuff gets announced and they've compared it with 30k which is done by FW. ^^

[Kamose]

Stop it, you guys!  Just stop it!  😭

Don't ya see?  This is just what GW wants us to do!  They're trying to tear us apart just when need to help each other the most!  How are we gonna solve the Mystery of the Thalassic Troggoth if we can't work together?!

[harrocks]

guess this probably stated above ad nauseum, but ...

I'm utterly bemused by the timing and nature of this anouncement ... I mean, apparently years in advance, without any real detail as to what's planned?

My immediate reaction is 'they're trying to stem something / head it off at the pass - AoS must be finally deemed a failure etc, etc' - but this clearly isn't the case (at least in terms of AoS being a failure).

So ... ultimately it's probably going to be something great etc, etc , but it's just the nature of the announcement I can't get my head 'round, and hard to kick the feeling it's undermining AoS somehow, at least with info as it is currently ...

** d'oh, so there's some more info which points more towards it being a luxury (i.e forgeworld) niche product for those that are unwilling to give up on WHFB. In other words an opp.' for GW to sell some particularly expensive models ... and in annoucing it, perhaps encourage others to try AoS in the meantime ... I guess that makes more sense (?).

Edited November 16, 2019 by harrocks

[JackStreicher]

50 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

While from a practical standpoint you are completely correct, its also worth noting that GW have never, to my knowledge, acknowledged that they have a scale creep problem. Warhammer is still widely considered to be a 28mm scale game, and that is reflected in movement values etc, even though in practice it is played with oversized models.

It probably doesn't help that GW is large enough that they can more or less flaunt scale standards to their hearts content. They don't really need to worry about telling anyone how big there minis are, since most people will be playing with GW minis. In fact I'd dare say that they'd much rather that warhammer fans stayed loyal to their brand and never looked at another minis company, so telling them which model ranges are at the same scale, or even making models to be compatible with other ranges isn't really a priority.

I don‘t see it as a problem it‘s just another way to set them apart from other companies (and makes Proxies of other companies harder).

[Wobbly]

With a bit of thinking and fun assumptions this is how I would introduce a game based in the Old World.

I would avoid building directly on WHFB as there are so many potential pitfalls dotted around it. Expectations, insane hype, "you're not doing it as I want it" and so such. Trying to live up to nostalgia is often an impossible task. Just look at the overall reaction from this very much vague announcement that had no actual information in it. It has been everything from "something new! Yay!", to "Yes! Old WHFB has risen from the dead!" and even "This will ruin what I prefer". 

Instead I would create a "new" game system, that would take inspiration from both WHFB and AOS, while keeping it as distinct from AOS as possible. Take the things people in general enjoyed about the Old World and spin up something fresh out of it with todays eyes. Not to mention they are hinting that it's a Forge World system so not a "main" game, rather a Specialist one.

Say make it more finicky, higher skill level and complex overall. The use of formations, flanking and facing would most likely be a good start for that. Then I would not release an overall rulebook that contained rules for every old faction from WHFB, I would rather do as with Necromunda and release rule books for each (faction) release wave.

Also to increase the changes of new players starting, either from AOS or fresh, I would reduce the size of the optimal game size. The players with bigger existing armies that are compatible would be able to scale up the games/rules if they so desired.

On top of that I wouldn't mass release all the old sculpts at all, instead I would let new sculpts and (old fan favourite) factions get released more slowly as the game evolves. This to encourage the sale of new miniature models over already bought ones from years ago, not to mention keep them in same scale as AOS to have some cross-pollination between the game systems. Of course it would only be beneficial to allow old models be used but at the same time keep them sub-optimal in a creative way because revenue is king. GW is a company that sells miniatures after all!

Say launch the game with a box-set with 2 factions, something something human vs something something chaos. Slowly expand those to ranges for a time period and then move on to another box-set with 2 other factions, dwarves/elves/orcs/skaven...

Lastly I would keep the visual styles of the miniature ranges between this Old World game and AOS distinctly different. Give the high fantasy and weird/over the top things to AOS while keeping it more mundane and low fantasy for the Old World.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Wobbly

[Screwface]

I like and play AoS but in my personal opinion WFB was just a better, richer game. Units (again, in my opinion) had more character and diversity, heroes were more individualistic, and the setting was more attractive given it was far more Tolkien-esque. I'd be happy if they basically released a WFB 9th ed based heavily on 8th ed, complete with square bases, movement trays and the rest. 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Screwface

[MitGas]

No idea what politics have to do with mini sizing and why Trump's name gets thrown around - it's kinda insane to blame the man for everything even if you don't like him or agree with his politics. I'm not blaming my president for unrelated problems either and he was out of all our candidates the one whose politics I least agree(d) with - but so what... 

Either way, subtract the hight of the bases and some minis fall into 28mm scale. It doesn't really matter though. Yes, nowadays most GW stuff is too big for 28mm, some less so some more so because they're supposed to be huge. That often recited heroic 28mm is an excuse to simply be creative with the scale and proportions.