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Gareth 🍄

Warhammer - The Old World

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Having slept on this I’ve decided the absolute pure 100% stone cold banter reveal would be after 3 years they unveil a range of ‘Old World Funko-Pops’...

Gotrek, Felix, Karl Franz and Deathclaw captured in pristine 6” bobblehead vinyl forever.

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From my point of view we only know two things;

1) GW has announced that they have started development of a new game set in the Old World.

2) They stopped supporting WHFB and replaced it with AOS. From a few posters here we can easily gather that it was hard to get new players and a mess rule wise.

So from these two points it seems to me pretty logical that this new game set in the Old World won't be WHFB reincarnated. It will rather be it's own beast. Now granted it can (even be very likely) contain rank and file formations with flank attacks and such but if we look at GW:s other newer game launches it will have way more streamlined rules and accessibility to more easily draw in new(er) players.

On top of that they very much like to have miniature kits to be usable in different games. Just look at 30k vs 40k, underworlds and Warcry. This could easily reinvigorate certain classic old miniature ranges of AOS, like beastmen, skaven, COS and the like. They also won't want to cannibalize their AOS player base so they most likely are going to differentiate this new game enough from AOS gameplay wise that they cater to different tastes. Why neuter their most successfully fantasy game as they call AOS in their announcement?

Not to mention that after GW dropped WHFB the fanbase created their own edition, 9th age I think it's called, and other companies has tried to fill up that market to. How would GW take back the "ownership" of WHFB in the fans minds? Especially now that it has been allowed to live it's own life a few years with the players getting used to and comfortable doing whatever they want. 

 

In short it most likely won't be a reincarnation of WHFB, if it's a successor it likely is heavily streamlined and changed enough to stand on it's own legs. Also GW is likely looking into diversifying it's range to increase the potential income rather than neutering AOS.

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9 minutes ago, Wobbly said:

They stopped supporting WHFB and replaced it with AOS. From a few posters here we can easily gather that it was hard to get new players and a mess rule wise.

Srsly despite all the endorphins created by nostalgia: The rules were just the worst: Monsters were unplayable (canons), 40-50% of each Armybook were unusable, the game was too static, Aelves were too strong, heroes too OP and it took AGES before you could finally take your turn, the balance was a bloody mess, MSU was OP af, redirection units were way too powerful (and Ummersion breaking, also the only true mechanic the game had),magic was way too strong etc.

 

Edited by JackStreicher
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My concerns are that they split the fan base and divert resources from Age of Sigmar.

This project could be done in such a way so as to avoid these problems. I’m hoping that is how it all plays out.

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Watching Warhammer Weekly made me think about all kinds of things.

At the time of his re-release, Gotrek was a weird one for me. An Old World Mortal entering the Mortal Realms, and with such fanfare?

I don't think they want to recon the End Times, so I think we may be looking at a OW-MR portal.

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I do like the square base promotional video on Warhammer TV - haha, gold 😆

Edited by Greyshadow

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8 hours ago, shinros said:

That's why I think it's a bad idea to announce something that is almost half a decade away, that's largely my only problem with this. We have no idea what scale it's going to be, how the models will work, how they will change the lore to fit with AOS etc. Let's not forget price as well, if GW tries to use the current pricing method with old point values it's going to kill this new game. 

With the start of AoS, there was a lot that could have been communicated better, and some community input would have been valid (though certainly not all). This could be a way to get community input in time to change their course.

4 hours ago, Evangelist of Cinders said:

We also may all be jumping the gun we don't know what they are building it may not be another regimental   battle scale like the old WHFB maybe this will be more like mordeheim or the old warhammer skirmish. heck the development team may not know what the game they are building. the only thing that seems guaranteed is a game that takes place in the old world.

Skirmish or roleplaying centered would be my preference. I think that is unlikely though.

5 hours ago, novakai said:

running theory is that it more of an industry statement that they going to compete with Kings of War and ASOIAF in the rank and file miniature game so beware to those who pluck stuff from fantasy.

I myself think this is because the LotR licence renewal was more than it was worth to GW, and that line will end in 2023, creating a niche for a lower fantasy setting.

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29 minutes ago, Wobbly said:

From my point of view we only know two things;

1) GW has announced that they have started development of a new game set in the Old World.

2) They stopped supporting WHFB and replaced it with AOS. From a few posters here we can easily gather that it was hard to get new players and a mess rule wise.

We know a bit more than that:

  1. We know that at some point (between 6 and 7 edition), some designers moved from GW to other companies (don't want to write names here).
  2. We know that the CEO  started something to renew their product (between 7-8 WHF editions) and at 2015, AoS was born.
  3. We know that the same CEO was put down (don't know if he just resigned or whatever) and a new CEO entered the big stage (Roundtree). Why? I can see that the AoS numbers for the first year weren't really...high.
  4. After Roundtree taking the reins , GW had a lot going on: New "old" games, they opened a lot of new community platforms, etc...
  5. Between 2017 and 2019, AoS just climbed to the top 5 wargames in the world (you can search some magazines like Forbes). It's not a FACT,  I know, but for me, it just means that the game was going really well (not 40k well btw..).
  6. The same team exapnded their own numbers of workers (new model designers, new game designers, etc...). 

From my viewpoint, Kirby shoot their own foot trying to "fix" one of his prodcuts. Roundtree just did his work (imo, it's still in "beta", but a lot better than Kirby's "alpha"). Roundtree knows that people are happy with AoS now, and the ones that aren't will never be happy until WHF return. 

So here we go, don't know how this new "old" game will be done, but I can't wait to play it!!
 

Edited by Beliman

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9 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

Watching Warhammer Weekly made me think about all kinds of things.

At the time of his re-release, Gotrek was a weird one for me. An Old World Mortal entering the Mortal Realms, and with such fanfare?

I don't think they want to recon the End Times, so I think we may be looking at a OW-MR portal.

There were a bunch of books that did well, and there is a WH TW tie in, so I think it was already quite logical. If Gotrek is a sign of things to come, however, I would not mind a bit. That's heroic scale, and a really nice sculpt.

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Im one of those new players being drawn in to AoS. I have always been fascinated by the world of classic Warhammer, but it was not accessible to me due to several decades of lore, rules and experience of existing players. AoS was a fresh start with a new rule set, similar to a Server Restart.

Now my time has come. And what a blast the last 1 year was 😃 Two painted 2k armies, load of fun and new friends. Many of those friends (we are a small game club, with 90% from WHF) still talking about their old worlds, where i feel like the newbie I tried avoiding to be. But that being more and more seldom, with old armies being converted to AoS. The transition was almost done. Almost.

Now this announcement. I assume it will at least draw back the attention of many old world players to WHF. Getting AoS to lack players in small communities. It will likely kick people like me out of hobby again. 

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9 hours ago, Panzer said:

Pretty much the same way how two concurrent sci-fantasy battle games set in the very same universe with similar characters and even similar units work for GW. It's really not that big of a deal.

There's a pretty crucial difference there,  40k never replaced 30k,  they didn't need to spend several years delineating the difference and getting people to buy into the new system, scrapping old units and shifting people to a new aesthetic and lore only to then undo it. There is a need for differentiation here, and probably a few ways to achieve that,  but scale seems like an obvious one. 

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Don’t worry guys, if this game ends up killing off AoS everyone can still use the models and rules already here, they won’t go away... 

...just being cheeky, enjoying the delicious irony of the complaints that WHFB might end up damaging AoS!

This must be a response to their last survey. I wonder if this is their idea of ‘legends’ growing legs after a lot of bring ‘back the old world’ feedback. 
 

It’s bound to mean new models with the Old World aesthetic so I can’t wait personally.

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These two games cannot exist together. It's not the same as 30k and 40k. In five years time either old world will be back to being dead. Or AOS will. 

They have cannnabilized their own fandom for no reason. I definitely won't be buying anymore big AOS only armies until I see what the old world looks like. 

This announcement was very premature and ultimately I think a mistake. 

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3 minutes ago, Milano said:

Im one of those new players being drawn in to AoS. I have always been fascinated by the world of classic Warhammer, but it was not accessible to me due to several decades of lore, rules and experience of existing players. AoS was a fresh start with a new rule set, similar to a Server Restart.

Now my time has come. And what a blast the last 1 year was 😃 Two painted 2k armies, load of fun and new friends. Many of those friends (we are a small game club, with 90% from WHF) still talking about their old worlds, where i feel like the newbie I tried avoiding to be. But that being more and more seldom, with old armies being converted to AoS. The transition was almost done. Almost.

Now this announcement. I assume it will at least draw back the attention of many old world players to WHF. Getting AoS to lack players in small communities. It will likely kick people like me out of hobby again. 

I would not be so sure:

  • We don't know the scale used.
  • We don't know the era where it is set.
  • We don't know what type of game it is; 
    • is it a continuation of Mordheim/Vermintide?
    • Is it Total War on a table?
    • Is it the spiritual successor of LotR?
    • Is it a fancy RISK or chess board?
  • It's still three years away, the growth rate of AoS was huge the last five, so what happens in the next three is still up in the air. Maybe people will not want to return,

It's much too soon to panic, or, for that manner, have overly high hopes.

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6 minutes ago, Luke82 said:

Don’t worry guys, if this game ends up killing off AoS everyone can still use the models and rules already here, they won’t go away... 

...just being cheeky, enjoying the delicious irony of the complaints that WHFB might end up damaging AoS!

Relax! GW are not going to bash down your door, and burn your old AoS books and models :D

One "tribe" will highlight the embarrassing behaviour of the minority of the other "tribe" (and perhaps try to frame them as actually representing the majority of the other tribe), but then ignore the minority on their own tribe who behave embarrassingly when the tide turns and the shoe is on the other foot,

I'm certain there may be political parallels here, lol.

Edited by Kyriakin
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Does anyone feel really old when they see comments from people show never played Fantasy😛

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If there must be an Edition War*, then can we please fight it as nature intended...

On a tabletop, using armies of toy soldiers!

 

 

* There really doesn't have to be.

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2 minutes ago, Icegoat said:

These two games cannot exist together. It's not the same as 30k and 40k. In five years time either old world will be back to being dead. Or AOS will. 

They have cannnabilized their own fandom for no reason. I definitely won't be buying anymore big AOS only armies until I see what the old world looks like. 

This announcement was very premature and ultimately I think a mistake. 

I don't know. While I don't like much of the new aesthetic, the Kurnothi and Kharadron do tickle my fancy (as do the Gitz, but these are a bit in between). I won't play those in the new old world.

On the other side of the coin, I do like the old aesthetic, and if that was removed from AoS, I would most likely feel removed as well (and not getting any plastic for CoS really does feel like a delayed removal to me).

Getting the old world units in a setting that fits them better keeps me around the GW stuff even if they cut my armies from AoS, which might have me around for another army.

Cutting the line without a place for them to go would, let's just say, not incite me to ever give GW another penny.

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2 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

If there must be an Edition War*, then can we please fight it as nature intended...

On a tabletop, using armies of toy soldiers!

 

 

* There really doesn't have to be.

Reactions ran out, so I can only accept your challenge!

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16 minutes ago, Luke82 said:

Don’t worry guys, if this game ends up killing off AoS everyone can still use the models and rules already here, they won’t go away... 

...just being cheeky, enjoying the delicious irony of the complaints that WHFB might end up damaging AoS!

This must be a response to their last survey. I wonder if this is their idea of ‘legends’ growing legs after a lot of bring ‘back the old world’ feedback. 
 

It’s bound to mean new models with the Old World aesthetic so I can’t wait personally.

Hey, I'm an AoS and WFB fun. So a bit of both worlds.

But like I said before, AoS players don't just insult the other players and say that the game is just an abortion (said in this web page, an AoS friendly forum...). I mean, if you want to sound funny, that's nice, but don't try to sound like  a moron. 

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It would be business suicide to can AoS or do anything to undermine its success.

Personally I'm expecting WFB old rules as a new edition but with tweaks to improve it, otherwise it risks more fury from Oldhammer players. Models wise I reckon it will be square bases or movement trays for round bases. 

But do I honestly care? Well, I'll buy a book for nostalgia, but I doubt I'll invest anything else in it. As an old WFB gamer I can honestly say that AoS is a much better game system even if the lore isnt as good as Oldhammer (not yet anyway, but time will tell!).

I've played more AoS games in 2 years than I played WFB in 5, and that's down to the game not the people playing it (it was more like gaming attrition, like playing through a quagmire; AoS is as they say, smooth and cinematic).

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There is an excellent side to this,  all those who feel the need to haunt AoS forums to tell us all about WFB (despite the fact most of know it well) can toddle off elsewhere and play/chat about it to their hearts desire (not that they couldn’t already of course)

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Jeeezuz Christuuz, AoS won’t be canned, Warhammer Fantasy will be like 30K, no canning no nothing just stop the hyperventilating already 🤨

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It seems like 28mm will be the obvious choice as any new releases could be cross compatible. If they do this I feel they would still make new kits rather than bring back old ones but... still able to use your old minis square or round. 

I'm leaning atm towards a smaller scale, less investment and a differentiation to AoS. Would many be happy with that? I think the bonus of rank and flank is the overall look plus some unique tactics and I dont mind that a lower scale. What if they released Warhammer:old world at warmaster scale, with man o war and reintroduced mordheim and vermin tide at full scale. Would that be enough in the old setting to keep people happy? Or would it have to be 28mm?

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16 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

There is an excellent side to this,  all those who feel the need to haunt AoS forums to tell us all about WFB (despite the fact most of know it well) can toddle off elsewhere and play/chat about it to their hearts desire (not that they couldn’t already of course)

I like both, so don't have a dog in this fight (or support both dogs). In fact, I might even have a slight AoS preference (cue accusations of being a "concern troll").

But I tend to see as many "boo-hoo Fantasy (or Tomb Kings, etc.) sucked and is dead - get over it" posts as anti-AoS posts on the various parts of the internet I frequent. And not all of them are entirely unprovoked (e.g. entering a peaceful discussion about using, say TK, in AoS, or whatever, and trying to stamp all over it).

I think those who skew heavily towards one side have a subconscious persecution complex, whereby posts that attack their thing are noticed than those that attack the other thing (or justify the latter by "They started it!").

Edited by Kyriakin
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