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Warhammer - The Old World


Gareth 🍄
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Sorry for some sort of double post, but this fits so much better over here:

  

On 7/23/2021 at 10:07 PM, EnumaEilish said:

The GW article on TOW has a date marked on it's calendar. It shows a 30 day month that starts on a Tuesday with the 23rd marked. The only days through 2025 that fulfil these criteria are November 23rd, 2022, and April 23rd, 2025, giving us an optimistic release date and a pessimistic one. Unless one is silly enough to believe that GW would just create a stock asset showing a general release date with no deeper meaning.

TOW Release Date.png

Only problem being... this is incorrect.

Looking for coming months that fit this scheme - i.e. 30 days, starting on a Wednesday - you end up with September 2021, June 2022, November 2023... stopping at October 2025. Not April!

While I do not believe for a second this September 23rd will be the release date, it might very well be the date of the next TOW preview - possibly including an actual release date.

June 2022 is pretty too soon in my opinion, it has one major benefit over November or October though: it is a "classical" release month. November in particular is pretty much impossible, since at that point GW has the Christmas bundle boxes up. October is not as unlikely, but would still be a bit odd. It would also be over four years away - while I am not the most optimistic person in general, I'm not that pessimistic here.

To be honest, I consider June 2022 not that unlikely all things considered. It fits as a "major product release slot" and also adds up with the "more than two years off" comment in the original announcement back in November 2019. With the other options being either too soon or unfitting for other reasons - and doubting that GW has dropped this bit without any meaning whatsoever - I guess we are in for either some major news this September or the games release next June.

 

Edited by Darnok
Fixing some mistakes!
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On 7/24/2021 at 10:51 AM, Greybeard86 said:

Well, the horde VS elite issue is also nasty in 40k.

A first solution would be to limit the size of units. Do we really need 60 models of the same? Wouldn t sizes like 12/6/3 represent well the regiments? I mean, first thing we need to abandon is the 1 to 1 scale. A model should not be a trooper, they need to abstract from this.

Smaller units are also more maneuverable, allow for more unit diversity, and look more fun on the table.

Frankly, huge regiments in model count look more like a way to sell more kits than anything. Except that in the end it was just too much for anyone sensible to get into (so no need blood).

Well in 3rd edition 20 models was a big unit, 30 was a horde- units of 50+ only became a thing in the later editions so huge units isn't necessarily a thing fixed within WFB.  Blocks of troops very much is though. 

On 7/23/2021 at 3:46 PM, Whitefang said:

Yeah, though I think the redesign and resculpting in modern vibes may take a bit longer, I bet even by now they have already put some efforts into reintroducing “classic” factions



Broadly speaking? It’s time for the first priest king and lord of Khemri to show people what imperishable means once again and I am ready to put Nagash‘s skull under the wheel of his chariot😜

Really looking forward to what they might do with the older factions as sculpting has moved on so much in the last few years. seeing Wood Elves and Norse Dwarfs labeled so prominently in the maps is exciting but obviously the push will be new factions and some of the old kits still stand up. 

Exciting times ahead !

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1 hour ago, Darnok said:

Sorry for some sort of double post, but this fits so much better over here:

  

Only problem being... this is incorrect.

Looking for coming months that fit this scheme - i.e. 30 days, starting on a Wednesday - you end up with September 2021, June 2022, November 2023... stopping at October 2025. Not April!

While I do not believe for a second this September 23rd will be the release date, it might very well be the date of the next TOW preview - possibly including an actual release date.

June 2022 is pretty too soon in my opinion, it has one major benefit over November or October though: it is a "classical" release month. November in particular is pretty much impossible, since at that point GW has the Christmas bundle boxes up. October is not as unlikely, but would still be a bit odd. It would also be over four years away - while I am not the most optimistic person in general, I'm not that pessimistic here.

To be honest, I consider June 2022 not that unlikely all things considered. It fits as a "major product release slot" and also adds up with the "more than two years off" comment in the original announcement back in November 2019. With the other options being either too soon or unfitting for other reasons - and doubting that GW has dropped this bit without any meaning whatsoever - I guess we are in for either some major news this September or the games release next June.

 

Personal view is it'll be November 2022 or November 2023.  GW normally has two big releases each year - one June/July time for a main studio release and then one in November for a specialist games release.  This year the rumour mill is suggesting November will be an Age of Darkness (Heresy) box set with updated version of the rules.  Ultimately it'll depend upon how much work was managed to be put in during the pandemic.  The old specialist games/FW offices were packed in like sardines, so not a chance they could have been covid safe 😜

That said, GW is always able to surprise!

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4 hours ago, Darnok said:

Sorry for some sort of double post, but this fits so much better over here:

  

Only problem being... this is incorrect.

Looking for coming months that fit this scheme - i.e. 30 days, starting on a Wednesday - you end up with September 2021, June 2022, November 2023... stopping at October 2025. Not April!

While I do not believe for a second this September 23rd will be the release date, it might very well be the date of the next TOW preview - possibly including an actual release date.

June 2022 is pretty too soon in my opinion, it has one major benefit over November or October though: it is a "classical" release month. November in particular is pretty much impossible, since at that point GW has the Christmas bundle boxes up. October is not as unlikely, but would still be a bit odd. It would also be over four years away - while I am not the most optimistic person in general, I'm not that pessimistic here.

To be honest, I consider June 2022 not that unlikely all things considered. It fits as a "major product release slot" and also adds up with the "more than two years off" comment in the original announcement back in November 2019. With the other options being either too soon or unfitting for other reasons - and doubting that GW has dropped this bit without any meaning whatsoever - I guess we are in for either some major news this September or the games release next June.

 

I was joking in that post, but honestly never knew that Europeans start their calendar weeks on Monday instead of Sunday.

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7 hours ago, silverstu said:

Well in 3rd edition 20 models was a big unit, 30 was a horde- units of 50+ only became a thing in the later editions so huge units isn't necessarily a thing fixed within WFB.  Blocks of troops very much is though. 

Yep! Though recently I have been experimenting with smaller / non-gaming sizes, and I find that you can easily capture the feeling of a "regiment" with 4x3.

Of course this is a matter of taste, but I do not like painting too many of the same thing, to the point that I will not participate in some systems if I feel I got to put down too many of the same thing. This is my approach nowadays, as gaming takes the back sit to painting.

7 hours ago, silverstu said:

Exciting times ahead !

Very much so!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/26/2021 at 3:13 PM, EnumaEilish said:

I was joking in that post, but honestly never knew that Europeans start their calendar weeks on Monday instead of Sunday.

Otherwise the word „weekend“ for Saturday and Sunday wouldn’t really make much sense. It would have to be called „Weekend and -beginning“. Which would sound quite cumbersome, even for Europeans. 😄

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35 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

Otherwise the word „weekend“ for Saturday and Sunday wouldn’t really make much sense. It would have to be called „Weekend and -beginning“. Which would sound quite cumbersome, even for Europeans. 😄

Your system makes sense, but in America we start the week on Monday, because hundreds of bald eagles gave their lives to preserve our freedom to do so.

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18 hours ago, EnumaEilish said:

Your system makes sense, but in America we start the week on Monday, because hundreds of bald eagles gave their lives to preserve our freedom to do so.

We start the week on Monday in the UK as well, so I'm not sure who the eagles were fighting to gain that right.

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So, someone on a ToW FB group posted the following, claiming it was also covered by a French youtuber. The source was allegedly a store owner in Switzerland who's good friends with some of the ToW designing team members. Looks promising, perhaps bordering on the "too good to be true" territory, but I choose to believe 😁

Screenshot_20210805_133750_com.facebook.katana.jpg

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1 hour ago, KingKull said:

So, someone on a ToW FB group posted the following, claiming it was also covered by a French youtuber. The source was allegedly a store owner in Switzerland who's good friends with some of the ToW designing team members. Looks promising, perhaps bordering on the "too good to be true" territory, but I choose to believe 😁

Screenshot_20210805_133750_com.facebook.katana.jpg

Everything here looks very plausible...

Except the date (as early as 2022 ?) and the "core game" nature.

But if by core game they mean things like LOTR or HH (i.e. huge battle systems handled by FW/GW, but aren't Specialist Games per se like BB or Necromunda), then okay.

20 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

I cant imagine they are mad enough to push another core game in their less popular genre with a huge buy in and no crossover potential, though the way they treat HH does foreshadow that i guess.

 

But as you say, a concurrent in terms of "flagshipness" and ressources, like AOS and 40k ? nah. 

EDIT : 

If the box is Kislev vs DAEMONS OF CHAOS ....

.... I will be the happiest man on earth. Really. 

Edited by HorticulusTGA
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57 minutes ago, KingKull said:

So, someone on a ToW FB group posted the following, claiming it was also covered by a French youtuber. The source was allegedly a store owner in Switzerland who's good friends with some of the ToW designing team members. Looks promising, perhaps bordering on the "too good to be true" territory, but I choose to believe 😁

Screenshot_20210805_133750_com.facebook.katana.jpg

I think some of this is going to be true by default.  We already know they're going to be behind (pandemic) and it was going to be similar to Age of Darkness (plastic & resin, lots of lore based books). 

I think it becoming a core game isn't true unless it's no longer being handled by Specialist Games (core games are all produced by the main studio which has it's own management structure - specialist games is outside this structure).  I do think it'll be given the same or better support that we saw when the first black books were released.

The 8 sculptors could simply be them pulling resources from different teams to catch up - it's been done for Bloodbowl & Necromunda in the past.

Timescale wise, they quoted 3 to 5 years in the seminar I attended at the New Year Open Day in 2020, so nobody was even considering release the end of this year as possible.

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Timeframe doesn't match though.
Even before the pandemic they talked at least about 3\4 years iirc and 2021 was too early even then.
I also think that the chaos part will not only be daemons...i think they're thinking too much about Total War 3 without considering that TOW ,while overlaps to some extent, is a different project.
But Kislev vs Chaos would make sense...
 

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I think a lot of that is plausible- the core game bit would be more like MiddleEarth rather than AoS- means them getting that little bit more support [especially in terms of plastic kits]. I expect they will be doing the same with the new Heresy [although that might just be Specialist Games getting more capacity]. 

The only thing that really stands out [other than the early release date which seems way too optimistic] is "they haven't decided" on the starter set armies - that will have been settled early on- Kislev vs Deamons certainly would work. 

What I would hope to be true from this is the game getting a decent level of support and resources, granted not at 40k/AoS levels but I think for it to be successful it would need more than BB/Necromunda etc..

Fingers crossed ... [still want some Norse Dwarf rumours!]

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19 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

I think it becoming a core game isn't true unless it's no longer being handled by Specialist Games (core games are all produced by the main studio which has it's own management structure - specialist games is outside this structure).  I do think it'll be given the same or better support that we saw when the first black books were released

At the moment the 3rd core game is Lord of the Rings, and this would mean TOW is replacing it

yet what is really unlikely about that rumor is end of 2021 as original release date
with GW needing ~3 years in advance to make new plastic models, and they won't start a core game without a plastic starter set, work on Kislev would haven started in mid/late 2018

everything else is just the "standard" that was already around last year

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24 minutes ago, silverstu said:

I think a lot of that is plausible- the core game bit would be more like MiddleEarth rather than AoS- means them getting that little bit more support [especially in terms of plastic kits].

Maybe it's just me, but it kind of seems like Middle Earth has run it's course to a degree. They have definitely started to pull out some really obscure characters lately. I would not be surprised if GW want another fantasy core game with more room for new releases and view The Old World as a good option, since it's their own IP, has crossover potential with AoS and targets a different player base at the same time. That would certainly be an explanation of how they plan to serve The Old World with the huge amount of kits that game would require to meet the expectations of former Fantasy players.

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35 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Maybe it's just me, but it kind of seems like Middle Earth has run it's course to a degree. They have definitely started to pull out some really obscure characters lately. I would not be surprised if GW want another fantasy core game with more room for new releases and view The Old World as a good option, since it's their own IP, has crossover potential with AoS and targets a different player base at the same time. That would certainly be an explanation of how they plan to serve The Old World with the huge amount of kits that game would require to meet the expectations of former Fantasy players.

That makes sense, but IMO this would be a really weird time to drop it(Middle-Earth), with the new series coming out you'd think that would lead to a massive popularity spike

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1 minute ago, Lord_of_theRavenspire said:

That makes sense, but IMO this would be a really weird time to drop it(Middle-Earth), with the new series coming out you'd think that would lead to a massive popularity spike

The rumour talks about TOW being the third core game, but it's hard to say what that means. The author of that rumour might just have forgot about Middle Earth, or they might want to imply that Middle Earth is being dropped.

Personally, I don't see a reason for GW to stop supporting Middle Earth. I'm sure the game is still profitable to some degree. But at the same time it also seems like there is not a huge amount of growth potential there, and GW seems to have only limited creative control. We'll have to see what the Netflix show does for the popularity of the tabletop game, though.

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The main reason GW bought the Middle Earth rights was to prevent any other company to do so. Regardless MEBG profitability I think that's still a good reason to keep the game, specially -as others have said- with an upcoming new show.

But maybe I'm wrong. GW dominates the market and might feel confident they can crush any competence, even if they have a big, iconic franchise.

The rotating kits system they're using for LOTR could certainly be useful with the Old World and its big Fantasy range. I'd personally love to see the Old World as the third main game, but I'll remain skeptical for now.


 


  

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Lotr is not a core game any more though, and hasnt been for years either. I suspect its just the licensing thats stopped it officially being added to specialist games but its there in all but name, a bit like the limbo Age of Darkness lives in but better supported.

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That LoTR licence was with newline cinema iirc.

They said that something was happening at the end of the year to middle earth so I wonder if they've cut a new deal with this new production?

There was a period when it was a real millstone around their neck due to lack of take up and the obligatory contractual store presence.

Edited by Kaleb Daark
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