Warhammer - The Old World

[michu]

Ice Guard is a new addition, I agree. But Trained Bears appeared in Warmaster. They are not a sign of "making WFB more High Fantasy". And GW already said that Ungol Riders and Winged Lancers will be back.

EDIT: Now I realised that, considering WFRP4, we could see gnomes again!

Edited May 20, 2020 by michu

[cyrus]

18 hours ago, michu said:

 And GW already said that Ungol Riders and Winged Lancers will be back.

Do you mean this article ? https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/23/the-old-world-ice-guard-of-kislevgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/

[AccendantEvincar]

On 5/20/2020 at 12:35 PM, sandlemad said:

And yeah, Archwarhammer is a truly garbage human being even apart from his lack of knowledge and no one should value his opinion on anything. I go out of my way to avoid anyone who cites or pays attention to him so I’m open to the idea I’m missing the worst of old school WHFB snobbery (or in his case purported old school but really recent and meant to drum up clicks/right wing outrage).

Sorry for the off topic but why is he a garbage human being? Do you personally know him? Or just dont like his content. Bit harsh to call someone that.

Anyway back on topic

I played warhammer fantasy from around 4th edition (iirc) to 8th and also play AOS, warhammer had elements of high fantasy and low but as others have said for the majority of the time it was a gritty dark place. It was a doomed setting that the average person struggled to survive in. Just like others im looking forward to see what GW do with it 😄 i do however hope that they stick to the roots of the warhammer story. Yeah theres op wizards and monsters etc but thats not what made in interesting or different from similar work. It was a pretty messed up place.

Take the dark elves for example, yeah there elves so quite high fantasy you could say but how sadistic and terrible they where gave them a character that many other fantasy settings lack. 

 

[BrownDog]

7 hours ago, AccendantEvincar said:

Sorry for the off topic but why is he a garbage human being? Do you personally know him? Or just dont like his content. Bit harsh to call someone that. 

I only know him for the things he says on his public platform with his large audiance. Just from that he's definatly a garbage person, even if I knew him personaly and he acted nice to me. Still a bad dude.

Edited May 22, 2020 by BrownDog

[sandlemad]

Yeah, being an anti-Semitic ****** who pals around with fascists makes ‘garbage human’ a pretty mild way of referring to him tbh. There’s nothing about his personality that could conceivably balance that out.

Of course his content’s wheezy, poorly-sourced, inaccurate trash as well so it’s not like there’s anything of value there either.

[michu]

16 hours ago, AccendantEvincar said:

Take the dark elves for example, yeah there elves so quite high fantasy you could say but how sadistic and terrible they where gave them a character that many other fantasy settings lack. 

I must say that I don't see in Dark Elves anything I didn't see in Drows. Equally sadistic and terrible.

 

[Clan's Cynic]

2 hours ago, michu said:

I must say that I don't see in Dark Elves anything I didn't see in Drows. Equally sadistic and terrible.

 

Dark Elves being biologically the same as High Elves was their biggest difference, I think. They weren't literally 'dark', just ideologically opposed which was always more interesting than the usual Drow depiction. 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Clan's Cynic

[AthelLoren]

I never played Fantasy (Played some Mordheim with my dad when we first shifted from privateer press to GW), but am super excited for this. What i've read of the lore is quite gritty and wonderful, and I have a collection of pretty old White Dwarfs - the game system seemed quite tactical in a way AoS doesn't. Flank charges, winning and losing combats, and rank and file infantry all seem quite wonderful -  not to mention my Dryads and Glade Guard could possibly be getting back together again. Also, the possibility of Tomb Kings and/or Brettonia sounds great. Never played either of them, but I've always been a sucker for anything Egyptian themed.

[TheTuninator]

I'm quite excited as well! I only played WHFB for a couple years during 7th and 8th (Bretonnians, DEand Dwarves here), but TWWH got me back into the setting in a big way. The potential choice of factions is pretty interesting. Aside from the obvious Empire and Kislev, who else do you guys think is going to make it? I personally expect it to launch with a few different Empire factions, Kislev, and O&G. As a former Bretonnian player, I hadn't realized that the War of Three Emperors lands right before Repanse in the timeline, so that gives me more hope (which I hadn't had initially) that we might see Bretonnia finally get an update after all! It does still seem a little doubtful, if only because GW these days is pretty keen on making their model ranges harder to imitate & Bretonnia is the epitome of imitable, but perhaps they'll figure out a way around that.

[EccentricCircle]

I'd say they've got space to do some of the more unique and weird Bretonnian stuff, like the grail, and sorceresses etc. They don't presently have any pegasus cavalry, so that is a space that could be cool to explore.

Its a case of finding the things that you need for a Bretonnian army that you can't get elsewhere. Sure, every historical company makes a set of medieval knights and peasant bowmen, so I can see why GW aren't fussed about those. That doesn't mean they can't put their own spin on some other elements of the range though.

[Lord of the Isle]

Gods it’s good to hear anyone remember Repanse! My first model

[Beastmaster]

Will any of the AoS armies fit into the Old World? What do you think?

 

[TheTuninator]

15 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

I'd say they've got space to do some of the more unique and weird Bretonnian stuff, like the grail, and sorceresses etc. They don't presently have any pegasus cavalry, so that is a space that could be cool to explore.

Its a case of finding the things that you need for a Bretonnian army that you can't get elsewhere. Sure, every historical company makes a set of medieval knights and peasant bowmen, so I can see why GW aren't fussed about those. That doesn't mean they can't put their own spin on some other elements of the range though.

Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines! They could pretty readily push Bretonnia into a lot more overt iconography of the Grail and the Lady if they wanted to differentiate the range from medieval historicals, especially if the Bretonnian range were to revolve around Repanse. Make the Battle Pilgrims/Grail Reliquae look closer to the default and you'd have something a lot harder to replicate (plus it sounds pretty cool!) Since we're getting Kislev, I have hopes that they could hardly then pass over Bretonnia, but only time will tell.

 

18 minutes ago, Lord of the Isle said:

Gods it’s good to hear anyone remember Repanse! My first model

To be honest, even though I played Bretonnia in 7th & 8th I'd not heard of her until TWWH! However, she seems like a fantastic subject for a later campaign book in Old World, & a great opportunity for GW to create more overlap with TWWH.
 

Just now, Beastmaster said:

Will any of the AoS armies fit into the Old World? What do you think?

 

I think the Daughters of Khaine would fit into WHFB pretty neatly as part of the Dark Elves, but I don't think we'll be seeing any New World factions, at least not for a very long time.

[Beliman]

I'm really interested if we are going to see some type of Norse Dwarfs and what kind of new miniatures are going to play with.

[Evangelist of Cinders]

2 hours ago, Beastmaster said:

Will any of the AoS armies fit into the Old World? What do you think?

 

There are a few variables; and it's hard to say

First there is a practical issue of dynamic models and base footprint is the biggest concern. Lore and theme a little but Ill get to why that doesnt seem like a big  deal to me in looking back at the history of Warhammer

The new game could also be a skirmish game/Rank game like war of the rings or pure skirmish like warhammers early days the later two seem like they may be too mechanically similar to AoS to sell as a separate project, though not a miniture line from FW. many of the Rank  unit designers for minis and rules have left GW 10+ years ago and are thriving in other companies or run their own(perry twins and Cavatore spring to mind) so GW may not be wanting to change too radically from their current crews expertise

On models many of the newer models even if the same scale have a drastically different foot print and setting them as rank and file units (assuming the new game is rank and file) may be difficult,hard to move, difficult for placing on terrain in formation or aesthetically unpleasant. This makes them difficult for games of unit movement. they could be given different formation rules but the old Bretonnian triangle Wedge and the all skirmish Beastman armies showed that while it can be fun and thematic exceptions needed to be uncommon enough  to not be a norm or else you had to write more obtuse rules to make them function as desired. Another Solution is it to have it be a formation game rather then individual units but at that point it would just look like kings of war which is already established, pretty accessible and whose rules team are veteran designers(not that GW doesn't have good designers but most of them are really good a skirmish style games rather then battles, a lot of their designers from that field left the company in late 00's and work on things like KoW) GW's main advantage would be it's IP recognition only.

The next big practical thing is Money. the GW model relies on you buying the new hotness to make profit rather then rules or games themselves, it would't be advantageous to let me just plop my Ossiarch bone reapers on the field no problem, same goes for just Re-Rebasing my bretonnians. Not to say these aren't options for designers but probably won't be where emphasis is or will have a lot of synergy with the new stuff to make you want to convert or ring the new stuff as well. this is also a better option IMO because it increases the potential new customer market while a totally new game from FW is super niche and you don't want folks to just bring back the hoarde armies from ebay that make no new revenue for you but also made latter editions of WHFB creativity and play wise unbearable

Rank games also took WAY more minis then then some of the newer armies and either would require 50+ new Vulkite purchases or have armies that would be punished severely for not having the units to play the movement and location strategies needed for the old WHfB. though if you get rid of some of the movement/strategy elements and use the unit synergy aspects that 40k AoS use insteead it would be fine

look and lore  they seem to be avoiding the Low Fantasy aspects of the Warhammer world, so the style thing not the biggest fault and while the last few editions did lead some intellectual enclosure in some ways, the official lore had a bit more room to be creative with then the community usually  remembered. Earlier editions had some wild stuff that wasn't necessarily reconnected(also GW retconned the history of the warhammer planet they can do it again) and the wargame  left certain aspects of nations ambiguous to allow hobbyist creativity when building,painting,converting and designing lore for their doods. Realm gates are even hinted to cross space and time to the point that one may open in Chaos wastes so who knows what goes in and out of there beyond Gotrek the Old World was WAY crazier then people seem to recall/took advantage of.

 

Stuff that is restrictively connected to the new lore and look such as Stormcast(whom when put in a rank game will look more like knock off space marines) and Ossiarch probably won't be, though the later could VERY easily proxy . All of Destruction still fits thematically and lore wise, Chaos well at one point my knights had to fight a Chaos Space Marine so anythings possible for them plus most of their units were in the old world or at least the End Times, Most of Death exist in the Old World in some form so just like in 30k their were scenarios that had you use Nids or Tau to represent a small xenos faction same can be done with nighthaunt and FeC. Order is in a similar space Cities,sylvaneth could plop in now and be fine. more extreme stuff also works with some theme tweaks  DoK becomes Slannesh/khaine Cult, Idoneth that weird sea faction always rumoured never produced, proxy Kharadron as Zhufbar sky fleet and fyreslayers as the more ancient lost southernhold hold of Karak Zorn or a  Chaos Dwarf Cult. most of AoS is not as far off as people seem to believe.

 

So while VERY possible lore and look wise(some name changes maybe a unit restriction here or there)I think the difficult lies with the Dynamic models ability to rank and some of their base footprints to make large movement that Square basses are for rank, flank and formation games.

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Evangelist of Cinders

[GorbadIronClaw]

This lack of news is discouraging

[Sttufe]

6 hours ago, GorbadIronClaw said:

This lack of news is discouraging

They did say 2 years, and with the pandemic that could be 3-4 years. I find the fact they shared news of it so far out encouraging, it should mean it a bigger thing. Remember, we are in a global pandemic, they might not have anything to show for it over the course of restarting factories and finishing SoB/LRL

[Beastmaster]

17 hours ago, GorbadIronClaw said:

This lack of news is discouraging

Like Darth said: I find your lack of faith disturbing. 😄

We have to keep in mind that these are chaotic times indeed. No one could expect what happened in the last months, and no one knows what will happen during the next. Just cut them some slack. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Beastmaster

[michu]

There's one thing I would like to see in new announcement - something else than Kislev. I love Kislev but I want to see something Empire-, Bretonnia- or Dwarf-related.

Edited September 23, 2020 by michu

[amysrevenge]

Keeping in mind that I was already surprised that they even went there in the first place, and I was already surprised at how early they talked about it, and I was already surprised at how early they hyped their first design bits with Kislev, I'd be surprised to see too much more in the next year even.

[Clan's Cynic]

Kings of War was hyping up it's third edition launch, Conquest and A Song of Ice & Fire were gaining larger fanbases. It's probably not a coincidence that GW decided to do the uncharacteristic when they did and reveal their plans early in an attempt to knock the wind out of those other rank-and-file fantasy games sails. The timing is just too spot on, especially in relation to Kings of War.

They know the majority of players of those other games were former, disgruntled WHFB players and that there's a massive brand loyalty to GW no matter how many teeth they've knocked out before, so the conversation turns from "I'm playing this other game because GW killed WHFB" into "I'm playing this other game until GW launch The Old World." Sure some will never come back, but 8th 40k showed that it's very, very easy for GW to bring people back to their brand.

Arguably, it also helps AoS' sales in the short/medium term, because somebody who's sworn off AoS by virtue of it replacing their favourite game is far more likely to be accepting (and thus, buy into it) when said favourite game is coming back and will be living side-by-side with it. If an early announcement nets them a few more sales from disgruntled former WHFB players then GW wins.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Clan's Cynic

[RuneBrush]

I'd agree with the above comments.  Many of GW's staff aren't back to work yet and we know that the specialist games team were packed into their office like sardines so going to be a social distancing nightmare (at one point they were actually cutting pieces off of desks in order to fit more desks in). 

This doesn't mean the project has been abandoned though.  Just the current circumstances in the country has slowed things down a little.

[zilberfrid]

With all the news this summer, diluting attention with something far off isn't going to be tasty either.

[EMMachine]

On 9/23/2020 at 4:52 AM, Sttufe said:

They did say 2 years, and with the pandemic that could be 3-4 years. I find the fact they shared news of it so far out encouraging, it should mean it a bigger thing. Remember, we are in a global pandemic, they might not have anything to show for it over the course of restarting factories and finishing SoB/LRL

They said at least 2 years, more like 3 or 4, when they anounced it (and this was before corona). Even without Corona it will most likely take at least 2 years from now before the game is released.

[Clan's Cynic]

Would Corona even make that much of an impact in their development to say that it probably wouldn't be anywhere near their factories for a couple more years? 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Clan's Cynic