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Gareth 🍄

Warhammer - The Old World

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20 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Yeah, it's quite obvious now that CA and GW are redesigning Kislev together for Warhammer TW 3 and to have something in that world for these new players to play.

Pessimist me would say that they need it because they'll kill off Cities in a few years.

I didn't see any cities army with bears, so I dunno how I will feel

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4 hours ago, Sttufe said:

I didn't see any cities army with bears, so I dunno how I will feel

I meant the whole Old World.

But I have seen people using armoured bears for dwarven demis. I think from Scribor or Atlantis.

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Second note, even though I like the bears and they were in the lore before, it does make it seem like yet another over the top AoS army, instead of taking the chance for regular a high fantasy setting instead of "Everything must be shouting" which is so prevalent in AoS. I'm curious to see if there is place for regular people.

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I'm very happy to see these images, I'm getting a Tamurkhan feeling and hoping that ethos will be carried into The Old World. Id still recommend that book as one of the best examples of how to do a campaign book and it's a shame it ended up being a single book, not the 4 they'd planned. 

Has it already been stated that these new models will be in resin via Forgeworld?

 

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, SunStorm said:

I'm very happy to see these images, I'm getting a Tamurkhan feeling and hoping that ethos will be carried into The Old World. Id still recommend that book as one of the best examples of how to do a campaign book and it's a shame it ended up being a single book, not the 4 they'd planned. 

Has it already been stated that these new models will be in resin via Forgeworld?

 

Oh how I loved Tarmurkhan and Warhammer Forge ! 

It will be via Forge World but probably mainly in plastic, as Necromunda, Blood Bowl and a good part of the Heresy range are in plastic yet made by FW - with upgrade packs and Characters add-on in resin. (With the new factory GW created in Nottingham recently, FW will perhaps mainly produce plastic kits, in 2-3 years times ?!).

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Posted (edited)

Just in case anyone has forgotten, when it comes to historical accuracy

 

Warhammer Fantasy Battle:

Warhammer Fantasy Battle Tabletop Gaming: Painted Island of Blood ...

 

Age of Sigmar:

 

01.jpg🤪😝😆

Edited by Carnelian
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38 minutes ago, Carnelian said:

Just in case anyone has forgotten, when it comes to historical accuracy

[...]

 

Haha. The FB group is a stark reminder of what the hobby used to be like. It really is great that the AoS community is so nice and that GW are really pushing interesting, if controversial, designs for their new forces. 

I think a lot of people liked fantasy because it was very old school, very traditional, rank and file. 

What i really don't understand is that every single other miniature company currently produces generic elves, dwarves and humans that are cheaper than GW's. There are a load of systems that are much better than fantasy (i'm just getting into Oathmark now). Just go buy some generic fantasy stuff and play with a different system. 

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22 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

Haha. The FB group is a stark reminder of what the hobby used to be like. It really is great that the AoS community is so nice and that GW are really pushing interesting, if controversial, designs for their new forces. 

I think a lot of people liked fantasy because it was very old school, very traditional, rank and file. 

What i really don't understand is that every single other miniature company currently produces generic elves, dwarves and humans that are cheaper than GW's. There are a load of systems that are much better than fantasy (i'm just getting into Oathmark now). Just go buy some generic fantasy stuff and play with a different system. 

Those more generic ranges are indeed great. However, I think a lot of folks like the broader popularity that comes with GW games. If you are playing some currently supported variant of warhammer, you have this vast global community to tap into. You know you can probably get a game, and that there will be semi local tournaments.

I personally agree that some of the non GW games have both better rules and models that appeal to me more ("better" is quite a loaded term when subjective matters are considered). However there is a reason I'm commenting on the Age of Sigmar forums. They are just *big*. A lot of other games have small dedicated communities, and I love them to bits, but I can absolutely see why people want something similar, but with the full firepower of GW behind it!

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11 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

Those more generic ranges are indeed great. However, I think a lot of folks like the broader popularity that comes with GW games. If you are playing some currently supported variant of warhammer, you have this vast global community to tap into. You know you can probably get a game, and that there will be semi local tournaments.

I personally agree that some of the non GW games have both better rules and models that appeal to me more ("better" is quite a loaded term when subjective matters are considered). However there is a reason I'm commenting on the Age of Sigmar forums. They are just *big*. A lot of other games have small dedicated communities, and I love them to bits, but I can absolutely see why people want something similar, but with the full firepower of GW behind it!

This. While I am sure "Oathmark" is good, my chances of getting a game of it in my current location in China is zero.

Plus, Tomb Kings.

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14 hours ago, hughwyeth said:

Haha. The FB group is a stark reminder of what the hobby used to be like. It really is great that the AoS community is so nice and that GW are really pushing interesting, if controversial, designs for their new forces. 

I think a lot of people liked fantasy because it was very old school, very traditional, rank and file. 

What i really don't understand is that every single other miniature company currently produces generic elves, dwarves and humans that are cheaper than GW's. There are a load of systems that are much better than fantasy (i'm just getting into Oathmark now). Just go buy some generic fantasy stuff and play with a different system. 

Yeah, I'm getting that now. I have enough of the Cities stuff that I like to last me a lifetime. Kharadron are nice, but grossly oversized. Fyreslayers are nice, but grossly oversized and only for the first 5 or so. DoK has a few nice models, and may not be off-sized too much. Warcry warbands are nice, but monopose and too big. Non-mortal Tzeench, ogres, ghosts, trees and goblins can work well, because they can use another sizing easily. The rest of the range is not my taste.

The whole increasing scale thing makes modern GW models almost useless for tabletop RPG's, I'm not liking the lore at all, and it wasn't much better in Fantasy. I just started Warhammer because it was the biggest around.

The Old World will not be better either, if the first previews are to be believed.

I'm just going to stop now, still taking an Underworld warband every now and again, but Warhammer just isn't for me.

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2 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

This. While I am sure "Oathmark" is good, my chances of getting a game of it in my current location in China is zero.

Plus, Tomb Kings.

I would certainly love a return of the Tomb Kings. The current focus on Kislev is also promising. If they do all the little niche factions that barely had models then it could be great. I'd love an official Araby range.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, EccentricCircle said:

I would certainly love a return of the Tomb Kings. The current focus on Kislev is also promising. If they do all the little niche factions that barely had models then it could be great. I'd love an official Araby range.

I have imagined making an Araby-esque cities army with LOTR stuff (Abrakhan, Easterlings, etc.), but the small scale really jumps out on the cavalry

Weirdly, both Kislev and Araby were legit official in Warmaster, and Tomb Kings were the starter army.

Edited by Kyriakin

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I hope you are all wrong 🤣🤣

I prefer an heroic scale game with massive ranks and files and based on campaign books and whatever armies participated in it. With a mix of "grounded" units that you need to buy a lot of them to make big blobs (and you can use your old ones) and over the top ones (ex.: militia near a mechanical steed/demi.gryph knights or some pikeman near flying dudes of catratzza, that type of things...).  Go big, or go home!!

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5 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

This. While I am sure "Oathmark" is good, my chances of getting a game of it in my current location in China is zero.

Plus, Tomb Kings.

Could just bring the rulebook. It's literally 5 minutes to learn the rules. 

GW do need competition. The fact people get so emotionally distraught over profit-driven choices of the largest player in the Wargaming space really shows there needs to be some competition. Up to all of use to try other systems. I'm playing oathmark with my cities army- zero investment other than a rulebook needed. It could not be any easier to just try something else. 

Anyway, back to Old World!

56 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I hope you are all wrong 🤣🤣

I prefer an heroic scale game with massive ranks and files and based on campaign books and whatever armies participated in it. With a mix of "grounded" units that you need to buy a lot of them to make big blobs (and you can use your old ones) and over the top ones (ex.: militia near a mechanical steed/demi.gryph knights or some pikeman near flying dudes of catratzza, that type of things...).  Go big, or go home!!

Warmaster 2.0 would be great and there's not really another system like it (i mean there's hundreds of 6/8mm scale systems, but they're usually historical or very old school rules).  However, having 28mm scale would mean a load of cool miniatures for my Cities army! Plus not sure how much I'd enjoy painting 6mm scale stuff.

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2 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

Warmaster 2.0 would be great and there's not really another system like it (i mean there's hundreds of 6/8mm scale systems, but they're usually historical or very old school rules).  However, having 28mm scale would mean a load of cool miniatures for my Cities army! Plus not sure how much I'd enjoy painting 6mm scale stuff.

I'd love Epic Scale Fantasy too. However, I imagine that if they were thinking in that scale again, they would start with 40K.

That universe has a bigger player base than either AoS or WHFB - and probably both combined - and Epic tends to lend itself more to huge vehicles (etc.), rather than the more organic and less technological fantasy possibilities. Big monsters and demigods, I guess, but "an army with loads of massive titans" just seems like lower hanging fruit for GW.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

I have imagined making an Araby-esque cities army with LOTR stuff (Abrakhan, Easterlings, etc.), but the small scale really jumps out on the cavalry

Weirdly, both Kislev and Araby were legit official in Warmaster, and Tomb Kings were the starter army.

I made an Araby cities army a couple of years back using a mixture of Reaper minis and various historical lines like Black Tree and Gripping Beast. Its one of the easier ones to proxy since there are a fair few companies making models for crusades era games. There are a couple of Citadel miniatures in there, a phoenix for obvious reasons, and a really old Araby sorcerer as one of the battle mages.

I don't have any good photos as i've yet to have them all set up on a sunny dayIMG_9259.JPG.e3b7158ecf04ba41fbd6d4a049213d56.JPG. That sort of gives you an idea though. I mostly use them as NPCs for my desert themed D&D campaign, rather than as a coherent warhammer army but they do work as a 1000 point cities army if rearranged a bit.

They are mostly 25mm scale, but with a few 32 mm reaper figs to make them a bit more on a parr with Warhammer stuff.

Edited by EccentricCircle
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Got to say while excited about a return to the old world, not really digging the whole ice enchanted arrow heads and weapons, stuff like that should be reserved for characters, kinda breaks the whole " down to earth feel" of the old fantasy setting. Each to there own tho i suppose 😄

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On 3/24/2020 at 10:34 AM, michu said:

Have you seen a scimitar? Those swords are not unrealistic. They even have similarly shaped guards like real scimitars. And why the bident is so crude? Because it's made of ice, it wasn't going to be symetrical.

EDIT: And for people that said "even Phoenix Guard wield regular weapons". But they have divine protection of Asuryan. It's not going to be seen on the model but they as magical as Ice Guard. Magic and blessings can have different forms. Like chaos gifts. WFB was never as historical and low fantasy as you think.

The thing is the human factions where low fantasy for the majority of their armies, look at the empire, brettonia, there basic troops are low fantasy. Thats the point of them.....to be a human in a world full of dangerous magical beings, elves etc. 

There are exception grail knights, wizards etc but these are meant to be very rare. The new "ice guard" are quite far away from that grounded feel. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AccendantEvincar said:

Got to say while excited about a return to the old world, not really digging the whole ice enchanted arrow heads and weapons, stuff like that should be reserved for characters, kinda breaks the whole " down to earth feel" of the old fantasy setting. Each to there own tho i suppose 😄

Not sure about that. Riding hypogryphs seems perfecte imo for an elite and unique unit.

Don't get me wrong, some armies still should have the same John Does with pikes and shields, but it's in the "unique units" that the game wins it's flavour.

Edited by Beliman
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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Not sure about that. Riding hypogryphs seems perfecte imo for an elite and unique unit.

Don't get me wrong, some armies still should have the same John Does with pikes and shields, but it's in the "unique units" that the game wins it's flavour.

And as was already said Kislev had different opinion on magic than Empire. Here it was more openly practiced. And Old World is set in past of WFB Kislev, so some military formations could be later disbanded and that's why modern Kislev didn't have them. While that Ice Queen have magical elite guard, later queens could abandon the idea of Ice Guard.

Oh, and maybe Kislev is going to be a contrast to Empire and Bretonnia - human faction that is not afraid of magic.

2 hours ago, AccendantEvincar said:

There are exception grail knights, wizards etc but these are meant to be very rare. The new "ice guard" are quite far away from that grounded feel. 

But that's the point - Ice Guard is personal guard of Ice Queen, they are as elite as Grail Knights (ofc not powerful like them, just fills the same position as elite unit of a particular faction). Not all Kislev units will have frozen blades, probably just that one. Ice ornaments on those bears can be just a crystals cut in specific way.

Edited by michu
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On 5/16/2020 at 9:25 AM, michu said:

But that's the point - Ice Guard is personal guard of Ice Queen, they are as elite as Grail Knights (ofc not powerful like them, just fills the same position as elite unit of a particular faction). Not all Kislev units will have frozen blades, probably just that one. Ice ornaments on those bears can be just a crystals cut in specific way.

I think this is important to keep in mind, so far they haven't shown off any of the common rabble yet. The Ice Guard are definitely elite and I imagine the bear riders will be too. Elite choices have typically received a much higher degree of magic/special things in the past.

It's still a bit too early be be claiming that The Old World will be a break from old fantasy, as they simply haven't shown off enough yet for us to make such a claim. If the next reveal is of Kislev peasant mobs and they're all carrying ice pitchforks than maybe we can talk, but until then we don't know enough to know. I realize it's part of the fun of this hobby, but it might be wise to avoid jumping to conclusions until were even know the game's scale for sure.  

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2 hours ago, Shearl said:

I think this is important to keep in mind, so far they haven't shown off any of the common rabble yet. The Ice Guard are definitely elite and I imagine the bear riders will be too. Elite choices have typically received a much higher degree of magic/special things in the past.

It's still a bit too early be be claiming that The Old World will be a break from old fantasy, as they simply haven't shown off enough yet for us to make such a claim. If the next reveal is of Kislev peasant mobs and they're all carrying ice pitchforks than maybe we can talk, but until then we don't know enough to know. I realize it's part of the fun of this hobby, but it might be wise to avoid jumping to conclusions until were even know the game's scale for sure.  

Yes, I still have some hope, but as I'm not married to the Warhammer lore, I can just as well look across the border. These minis are probably to 32 mm like newer GW models, which I don't like, 25-28 fits me a lot better. Even if they are at a different scale, that's not going to be 28mm, but 15 or 6.

I don't think GW is the best place for me to look for models. I like the detailing, I like some designs, and the price is not that bad if you avoid heroes.

But the scaling is way off, even internally between generations, and the direction away from grounded things is not to my liking.

I'll still probably finish my Kharadron, because I like their style (though can't call them dwarves, really), and use some monsters for d&d, but I don't see myself getting all that far into it.

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Just caught up with the thread after a couple of months!  Have thoroughly enjoyed seeing some of Mark's concept art - looking forward to seeing what the sculptors do, as we all know concept art and end miniatures can often be different.

On the subject of high/low fantasy, I think the old world (as in the setting) has always had a mixture of both ends of the fantasy scale.  I've always put classic fantasy in the higher end - but I've been in the hobby a long time and look at things like the original Warhammer Quest which had magic items abound.  But I know different people view it in different ways.

Oh and bears! 😮

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On 5/16/2020 at 9:06 PM, AccendantEvincar said:

Got to say while excited about a return to the old world, not really digging the whole ice enchanted arrow heads and weapons, stuff like that should be reserved for characters, kinda breaks the whole " down to earth feel" of the old fantasy setting. Each to there own tho i suppose 😄

I mean we had magic, sentient lizard people, elves, dwarves, orcs,  undead, vampires, literal walking piles of rocks (Rogue Idol) and trees, griffons, dragons, rat men huffing crushed up magic stones the list goes on and on. Personally I think ice enchanted arrow heads and weapons aren't really that much of a stretch for the old world. If anything factions like the Empire and Bretonia is were we'll get that sort of down to earth feeling.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Dirtnaps said:

I mean we had magic, sentient lizard people, elves, dwarves, orcs,  undead, vampires, literal walking piles of rocks (Rogue Idol) and trees, griffons, dragons, rat men huffing crushed up magic stones the list goes on and on. Personally I think ice enchanted arrow heads and weapons aren't really that much of a stretch for the old world. If anything factions like the Empire and Bretonia is were we'll get that sort of down to earth feeling.

Yeah, I should have predicted that, if I liked Freeguild best, that's on one extreme end of the spectrum and the average might not suit me.

In WH:TW I only really got into Bretonnia, Empire, Dwarves and Albion, the rest didn't really suit me.

Note that I am not adverse to things like demigryphs, mages, griffins and giant birds, but that seems to become more the default than the exception.

Edited by zilberfrid

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