Warhammer - The Old World

[angrycontra]

I'm interested in this but only if it has been designed with round bases in mind. It would be pretty ludicrous of gw to release a game that needs square bases after working so hard to make most of those old boxes round based. Not only that, but it would put some players in a real pickle: "Do I rebase my old army again back to squares or do I keep my aos army?". Movement tray stuff would certainly work.

Also I am somewhat concerned over the rules of this game. Say what you want about whfb, that rule set had some real problems. I think it would be stupid to ignore all advancements aos did. Not saying though that it should be aos clone, I just don't want it to be fantasy 6/7/8th/whatever ed. Clone or 9th age clone either.

[JPjr]

33 minutes ago, Kronos said:

- Are we going back to 5 minutes to midnight on the Doom clock, or we exploring Ages like the War Dwarves and Elves or the invasion of Grom into ulthuan.

see this is where it could be interesting and, to me, make a lot more sense. 

the Horus Heresy games dug DEEEEEEP into a hugely important and yet pretty unexplored area of the games history. apart from just fan service I don't really see them just going back to what? 5 years before the End Times? there's just nothing there to dig into and explore that hasn't already been covered at length over the past few decades with little room for introducing new elements?

fans may just want the old game as it was, but that doesn't, again to me, make sense from either a financial and more importantly creative sense.

so something in the past, I'd say the War of the Beard would be too niche BUT, wheel back to, say the period when Sigmar unified the Empire and you can include pretty much most of the different races, as they were pretty much all involved, you can have Sigmar himself as a main character to help properly link it to AoS for newer players and you have major events (repelling the Norsci, Black Fire Pass, battling the undead etc) featuring all the key factions and several well known names, especially to AoS players such as Nagash

and as an added bonus Empire and Brettonian players won't be able to use their models (JOKE!)...

 

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

I think it's a bit more complicated than WFB fans vs AOS fans

I was into the Old World as a kid and I still prefer it as a setting to AOS because it's much better-defined, I like low grimy fantasy better, and I have nostalgia for it

With that said there would have been a 0% chance of me ever getting back into buying or painting GW miniatures if it wasn't for the fresh ideas and more flexible game options that came out once AOS hit its stride. I would have been happy dipping in via Total Warhammer and Vermintide and not rebuying £800 of updated sculpts of miniatures I already had as a kid and gave away to save space

It makes a certain amount of sense for the Old World to exist as a secondary imprint for Warhammer now that AOS is established, and absence has made the heart grow fonder

It won't appeal much if its just verbatim Oldhammer with expensive Forge World minis you need hundreds of. I would hope they keep the AoS focus on making the game accessible via battleplans, small scale skirmish stuff etc; I will never again paint 20 near-identical square base models of anything

(imagine if there was a Mordheim expansion/reskin for Warcry!)

Edited November 15, 2019 by Jefferson Skarsnik

[Overread]

That's a really good thought on them going back to the days of Sigmar. It also means that there's new stories, lore, characters and such for Old World fans without harming the original lore (though chances are a few more battles will happen and a few major heroes of that day will be forgotten by the time of the Old World lore we know now). 

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

Double post ignore

Edited November 15, 2019 by Jefferson Skarsnik

[Televiper11]

Now the square base tease makes sense. My take-away is they will go with squares for this to ensure those of us on rounds have to either a) rebase (and make them a little money selling bases) or b) buy our armies again on squares (making them a lot of money).

Glad I kept my Swifthawk Agents. Sad I invested heavily in Cities of Sigmar and this announcement pretty much ensures most of those models will port over in three years time and no longer be part of AoS.

[Turragor]

I think if you can use the same armies (big square bases with round or square holes to make up units) it will add variety.

HOWEVER and I mean this as someone who played WHFB long ago, liked the setting but just never liked the complexity of the rules (IE an old player but one who mostly painted)... IF it gets dumpstered again, it might be the funniest thing I will have been near to (community wise) in a long time.

[Evangelist of Cinders]

1 hour ago, Shankelton said:

I'm mixed. On one hand, love a lot of the old world fluff and it really is great for old fantasy players to potentially be getting their game system back. On another, how pissed must some people be that they just re-based for AoS only to have this dropped in their lap lol.

My first genuine response was Oh god i did all that rebasing for nothing.  I'm a little saddened in reality though cause the freedom that AoS gives gave me a lot of conversion and creativity chances WHFB didn't. 

 

Even though i prefer low fantasy it could be frustrating bending over backwords to find a setting space for some projects though the blurry borders of the Old world gave wiggle room I greatly enjoy being able to dream up Mahdist Cities of Sigmar to Candy golem Orrucks created by a sweat toothed shamen. Plus I spent a lot of time planning a Hysh army using bretonnian models with a Dark AoS feel....now i really gotta work on getting that project done.

This of course makes sense the old world IP is making alot  of success for the third parties who licensed it( i think the first total war broke 500k sales in 2016) and there is now more exposure to markets to this IP then AoS may be able to reach as it tends to remain within our hobby circle which is lets face it small especially as mortar and brick stores a main entry into the  hobby vanish .9th age and other rank and file fantasy games are creating third party companies that make minis that are clearly influenced by the old GW IP. thats a lot of exposure that is going unused.

I have concerns of the mass rank required of the last few additions of Fantasy they were a huge turn off from the Hobby for many at the end of its life. I feel AoS has allowed for the level of flexibility of model use that really only existed for a short while with WHFB with skirmish and specialist games, but was defiantly gone near the end when some armies couldn't function below 1500 pts let alone at 500pts. I can right now pull out a handful of models and have a game introducing people to the hobby and let them go wild with their creativity either in creating a few heroes or a whole empire out of just their imagination. It seems more like the hobby i fell in love with then the end of fantasy where we wanted to expand a club or get  friends into it they had to take out a second mortgage(i kid, i know the hobby is expensive but the last years were crazy). I realize A LOT of the problems were from the upper managements marketing of miniatures instead of the hobby to the point that it was made accessible even to some veterans.

I'm interested but i kinda hope it goes the way of 30k or more like 5th and 6th edition and their skirmish options if GW pushes it as a main game. I really have been enjoying watching the hobby grow

 

Now i gotta go magnetize all my models so they can switch bases.

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

15 minutes ago, JPjr said:

see this is where it could be interesting and, to me, make a lot more sense. 

the Horus Heresy games dug DEEEEEEP into a hugely important and yet pretty unexplored area of the games history. apart from just fan service I don't really see them just going back to what? 5 years before the End Times? there's just nothing there to dig into and explore that hasn't already been covered at length over the past few decades with little room for introducing new elements?

fans may just want the old game as it was, but that doesn't, again to me, make sense from either a financial and more importantly creative sense.

so something in the past, I'd say the War of the Beard would be too niche BUT, wheel back to, say the period when Sigmar unified the Empire and you can include pretty much most of the different races, as they were pretty much all involved, you can have Sigmar himself as a main character to help properly link it to AoS for newer players and you have major events (repelling the Norsci, Black Fire Pass, battling the undead etc) featuring all the key factions and several well known names, especially to AoS players such as Nagash

and as an added bonus Empire and Brettonian players won't be able to use their models (JOKE!)...

 

Human lifespans being as regrettably short as they are, it might make sense for them to make more than one period of the game's history available; the trapped in Amber pre-End Tmes period is a bit of a busted flush narratively, but if people want to buy a big model of Karl Franz because they played as him in Total War, take their money

[JPjr]

2 minutes ago, Televiper11 said:

Glad I kept my Swifthawk Agents. Sad I invested heavily in Cities of Sigmar and this announcement pretty much ensures most of those models will port over in three years time and no longer be part of AoS.

I really would not count on that. Enjoy your CoS models in AoS, that's honestly where I suspect they'll be staying.

[Televiper11]

1 minute ago, JPjr said:

I really would not count on that. Enjoy your CoS models in AoS, that's honestly where I suspect they'll be staying.

I hope so. So much fun!

[Chumphammer]

 

I I am looking forwards to see what they have to offer 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Chumphammer

[Dead Scribe]

I'm pretty disappointed by this.  The entire reason I had for choosing AOS as a fantasy game to get into was the community.

All this is doing right now is splitting my community up.  Its great people are excited about it, but its not so great that my AOS community is going to be half the size soon.  That doesn't make for a very fun competitive environment.

They should have just left warhammer dead and let the players that like those type of games move on to the other alternatives, not try to create two different fan bases that are going to be competing against each other for players now.

[zilberfrid]

7 minutes ago, JPjr said:

I really would not count on that. Enjoy your CoS models in AoS, that's honestly where I suspect they'll be staying.

I really like their styling, and would like more of it. If this new old world has the same scale and the same design language, I'm all for it. If it's a different scale, or Stormcast design language, I'll pass.

[JPjr]

3 minutes ago, Jefferson Skarsnik said:

Human lifespans being as regrettably short as they are, it might make sense for them to make more than one period of the game's history available; the trapped in Amber pre-End Tmes period is a bit of a busted flush narratively, but if people want to buy a big model of Karl Franz because they played as him in Total War, take their money

then again the Horus Heresy only lasted 9 years and they've managed to get enough out of that!

to me it makes sense to build it around just one strong narrative that hasn't been done to death and can be explored, features most the races, isn't stuck in the, as you say, strapped in amber pre-End Times period but at the same time features a few names that people new to the game would know, Sigmar, Nagash etc.

as I said put it in the time of the Empire's founding and you have a really strong narrative to work around from the unification of the tribes onwards and several key moments featuring some of the most important races. the more I think about it the more sense it makes, plus they can start small and build up whole new model ranges without being stuck trying to make a game hamstrung by accommodating 10-20 yr old models.

that actually does interest me, especially if they still made it so that it can be played with smaller model counts.

[amysrevenge]

I definitely don't know enough about it to have decided how I feel.  I'm not even going to tentatively stretch out either positive or negative.  Could be awesome, could be awful, could just be another entry in my long list of "GW games I don't play and that don't affect me at all" (ie. everything they make other than AoS).

[CDM]

Not sure what to make of this but very happy for so many who wanted this. WHFB was my first miniature game but i didnt know anything about the setting when I played it at 13 yo. I always paid attention to it as a 40k player and loved the models and factions but it wasn't until I got into AoS that I looked back and realised how great the lore and fluff were! I was interested in rank and file but the unit eliminating weapons and powerful magic put me off.

I was a big mordheim fan though and love that exploring warband game, levelling up, finding treasure and growing a band. I always wanted a map based campaign mode where you only took so many points of your overall faction for each encounter. Really hope mordheim is released before then, I know its similar to warcry and they wouldnt want to trip over each other but maybe mordheim could be included in a future release.

Very much expect them to release brettonia and tomb kings and new models for characters, I think they'll invest heavily.

A couple hahe mention the smaller (warmaster? ) scale. And tbh I think that would be a great way to go, it would differentiate the two games and get to play on a dinner table!

Or...same scale has benefits as you can use models in both systems!  

Either way exciting times and very mu h looking forward to what the nex t two years brings for AoS as well.

 

[sandlemad]

3 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

I definitely don't know enough about it to have decided how I feel.  I'm not even going to tentatively stretch out either positive or negative.  Could be awesome, could be awful, could just be another entry in my long list of "GW games I don't play and that don't affect me at all" (ie. everything they make other than AoS).

That's the thing isn't it, it's years away and we have so little information, yet we have multiple people absolutely losing their minds that GW is releasing a game that isn't specifically for them and/or earnestly proclaiming that AoS is being cancelled/squatted because of it. It's a replication of the worst behaviours of the end times and AoS launch.

[Barkanaut]

3 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

That's the thing isn't it, it's years away and we have so little information, yet we have multiple people absolutely losing their minds that GW is releasing a game that isn't specifically for them and/or earnestly proclaiming that AoS is being cancelled/squatted because of it. It's a replication of the worst behaviours of the end times and AoS launch.

Yeah it feels like it. It doesn’t help it’s started a fanbase civil war which will likely weaken sales  for both and end up tanking two games then we’ll need age of x to reboot it all again.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Barkanaut

[Skrekkugle]

At the pace I'm painting at, I will just finish my first AoS army when this hits. Hopefully we can play with round bases too. Guess we'll see what fits my group the best and go from there. Def like the old setting better but AoS actually made us wanna play.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Skrekkugle

[sandlemad]

2 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

Yeah it feels like it. It doesn’t help it’s started a fanbase civil war which will likely weaken sales  for both and end up tanking two games then we’ll need age of x to reboot it all again.

You're doing exactly what I said though, wild catastrophising based on almost nothing. This 'civil war' is indistinguishable from that.

30k didn't cannibalise 40k, it offered a game system for folks who weren't interested in the worst excesses of 7th edition, when GW was at its worst, and now even in its reduced state it's another game for folks who aren't pushed about the 8th edition scene.  It's both different crowds and people who play both. I almost exclusively play UW and specialist games over AoS nowadays because of time constraints and a preference for smaller games. If those games weren't there, I wouldn't suddenly start buying more AoS, I'd just play/buy less overall.

Anyone who is rejoicing over WHFB's return is either someone who wasn't already playing AoS or someone who is playing AoS but also wants a ranked battle game for their old (possibly not viable for matched play) collection.

[ZaelART]

I think the only way this could be successful is if units could be used in both system.

I mean... A lot of heresy stuff is used in 40k.

Also, in terms of support heresy was ok at first but took a dive pretty quickly. 

I'm one of those that wished they never destroyed the old world and was massively opposed to AOS... Now I'm living with it, seeing how they are starting to build the new world and thinking ok this is working... Now this? It is a bit... wierd.

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

A few assumptions I have about this:

GW are probably not dumb enough to make lots of people rebase their army for a second time in a few years

The logistical challenges of making round base models be on square bases are minor and have in fact already been solved comprehensively

The existence of secondary/different timeline game systems in 40k have not ruined that game or set brother against brother in bitter blood feuds

The % of the overall player base who will see this as a major betrayal or an unacceptable drain on AOS development resources is not significant

my longstanding theory that Blood Bowl is canon, has always been canon, is not a separate parallel universe to the Old World, that there are Blood Bowl stadiums all over the Old World, will be confirmed beyond doubt

[VBS]

Quite exciting! I'm interested to see what basis they will use for the rules... a 9th ed? a best-of edition? or even better, a 6th redux  ?

Since it will be 30k-fantasy I'm expecting to have a setting within a specific "important events" timeframe such the Great War Against Chaos or to have multiple chapters such as I) War of the Beard II) Nagash's Rise III) War of the Three Emperors ,etc....  with a big campaign book for each. Either way, I hope they release special characters similar to the Primarchs/SM heroes in 30k to go along. Having Aenarion or Engra Deathsword minis would be beyond awesome!

It's also worth mentioning that FW probably already has some material they could eventually use if aiming for such thing, after the Tamurkhan book and the never released Black Fire Pass:

 

I wouldn't really want it to be a simple regular new edition, as Warhammer Fantasy is doing pretty great in many places without the support of GW, not to mention the many alternatives (T9A, KoW, etc...). So it'd be nice if this thing really brought something new to the table.

 

 

Also, I don't get the doom&gloom. The Mortal Realms ain't blowing up. This ain't "replacing anything". AoS is probably the most supported GW game ever. I doubt you won't be able to play one, the other or both, as you wish. The situation described here is very very different compared to 4 years ago so there is no need to be so negative.

[Overread]

Also don't forget that the square bases typically went into a movement tray anyway. There are loads of circle base rectangle movement trays on the market already and so it would be effortless to take round and put them onto square tray movement systems. So yep going back to square won't mean rebasing.

 

Also I see this is a way for GW to also not only cater to the old world and rank and file fans but also the low-magic fans. Old World had a lot of high magic stuff; but visually it was quite a "low magic" setting compared to the AoS setting.