Warhammer - The Old World

[Chikout]

10 hours ago, Dead Scribe said:

I'm gutted.  Some of our older players set up a WHFB 8th edition game day yesterday.  The amount of interest really kicked me in the gut.  There were so many people that showed up for it yesterday, I had no idea that that many people wanted WHFB back.  I haven't even seen a lot of the guys that showed up before in my life.

Its really going to tear my community apart and endanger our AOS group.

You really don't need to worry. This is literally week one of what will be a wait of three years or more. 

I have absolutely no interest in going back to the old game, but I did get my old rule book out to have a look at it. 

Those old guys who came back to play today will be following gw more closely over the next few years, and a few of them will be tempted over by all the cool Aos releases in the mean time. 

Also if you're worried about your community, try talking to them about it. 

If you're really worried, try organising an event or two to encourage people to play.

[EccentricCircle]

One idea might be to suggest an Age of Sigmar tournament set in the Old World. Try to pique the grognard crowds interest in the current rules set, as preparation for the Games return. You can use the event to drum up more interest, teach them to play the current version of the game in case the new one is more like that, and show them that their armies can still work in the new system, if not the new lore.

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, EccentricCircle said:

One idea might be to suggest an Age of Sigmar tournament set in the Old World. Try to pique the grognard crowds interest in the current rules set, as preparation for the Games return. You can use the event to drum up more interest, teach them to play the current version of the game in case the new one is more like that, and show them that their armies can still work in the new system, if not the new lore.

This is an excellent idea. Easpecially close after a WHFB game where a bit of the rosy coloured glasses might have broken when confronted with the reality of the game system.

AoS as a game system is much more approachable, and the base rules allow for a nice and quick game. With the armies still dusted off, get the old guard to meet the new system, just to see if they enjoy it.

1000 points games without bothering about bases not being round, and build the AoS armies to be at a similar level to their expected competetiveness. Use no books, just the core rules (because the new entrants do not have the books) but do assign points values. Err to the side of being less effective for the people knowing AoS better.

If people complain about the rules being too simplistic, simply point to Malign Sorcery and battletomes, where a lot more can be found.

I think the chances of the new game being built on AoS rules are quite good, so this will help them familiarise themselves with the system. There is a good chance you get a few new players out of it.

Edited November 18, 2019 by zilberfrid

[chord]

 

1 hour ago, EccentricCircle said:

One idea might be to suggest an Age of Sigmar tournament set in the Old World. Try to pique the grognard crowds interest in the current rules set, as preparation for the Games return. You can use the event to drum up more interest, teach them to play the current version of the game in case the new one is more like that, and show them that their armies can still work in the new system, if not the new lore.

Great idea!  You could leverage this really well done book

 

[EccentricCircle]

6 minutes ago, chord said:

 

Great idea!  You could leverage this really well done book

 

Cool. I didn't know about that. I'll have to check it out!

[Bluesummers]

As a player that started wargaming with AoS  (2 months prior to GH release and stopped after 2.0 dropped) and never got a chance to play WFB i am pretty excited about this.

Also to people saying this is 3+ years away, i believe its a marketing thing to get a census of people's opinions and reactions. It's hard to think that they would announce a product so far away, the hype would be dead till then. The product could be closer than the statement in the article claims to be. It's more realistic if we see beta rules in 2020 and a release date in 2021.

[Overread]

The hype would be dead if they did no marketing between now and a launch in 3 years. What we have now is early warning. Give it half to a year and we might get more details. It will be the kind of thing that for a year or two rolls out once or twice ata major event for an update then goes quiet. Then in the year leading up to launch you can bet they'll be dropping info - showing sculpts etc... Building up the hype anew.

The 2-3-4 year development time isn't just for rules; if anything the models will take far longer and it suggests then working from the ground up. It also depends how many staff they put into it and how big a launch they are going for. It might be only one or two armies and only a handful of models at launch. 

[Panzer]

Even if the hype dies meanwhile, it only takes some active marketing in the months prior to the actual release to get everybody on board the hype train again.

[Dead Scribe]

15 hours ago, Hollow said:

I really don't understand this. You were gutted because lots of people turned up to play games and have fun? 

No.  I am gutted because I'm watching my group get splintered and made smaller, and thats not why I chose to play a GW game.  I chose a GW game because it was promised that it had the largest play group to facilitate competitive gaming.

[Aelfric]

7 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

That's not really a fair comparison.

• One is the sudden extinction of a game and setting that had been around for 30 years, and replaced with something completely different that was initially flawed in many respects.
• One is a hint of a game in the distant future that will almost certainly not replace the current game.

Your message feels like it is throwing shade on the WHFB community compared to the AoS one.

While the AoS community may indeed be "better", let's not pretend that this so-called upheaval to AoS players even remotely compares to that upheaval for WHFB fans back in 2015.

It's not even close.

To have a fair comparison, you would have to have GW have released a video or book where the Mortal Realms are suddenly destroyed, half its miniature range is squatted and then a teaser video is released to say that the Old World has returned to replace the Mortal Realms with a new rank-and-file game on square bases.

Then the AoS community - myself very much included - would be up in arms, and rightly so.

I wasn't trying to make a comparison between the two events - This news had the potential to open up old wounds and the reaction to it could have become very heated very quickly, as it did during the transition to AOS; I was only expressing the positive feeling I had to see that, on the whole, this has not happened this time and that the debate and discussion, from whichever position. has stayed relatively calm and amicable.  Isn't that a good thing?

[eekamouse]

Here's the one thing I don't want "Old World" to be. 

 

[Still-young]

11 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:

No.  I am gutted because I'm watching my group get splintered and made smaller, and thats not why I chose to play a GW game.  I chose a GW game because it was promised that it had the largest play group to facilitate competitive gaming.

That’s still true. 

[karch]

3 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:

No.  I am gutted because I'm watching my group get splintered and made smaller, and thats not why I chose to play a GW game.  I chose a GW game because it was promised that it had the largest play group to facilitate competitive gaming.

GW does those things to you. Many people thought they were safe investing modelling time and a bunch on money in WHFB and GW nuked it.

That's why for many veterans company-supported is just one of several desirable things to look for in a game, but only one among many.

[michu]

13 minutes ago, eekamouse said:

Here's the one thing I don't want "Old World" to be. 

 

Sigmar's beard, what's that?

[eekamouse]

Just now, michu said:

Sigmar's beard, what's that?

A Song of Ice and Fire.... but it might as well be WHFB.

[michu]

I mean... I wouldn't be angry at that movement trays, but that terrain? Horror.

[Panzer]

21 minutes ago, eekamouse said:

Here's the one thing I don't want "Old World" to be. 

 

Yeah that would be horrible. Luckily WHFB was never this bad. At least not during my time during 7e.

[Gecktron]

16 minutes ago, michu said:

Sigmar's beard, what's that?

The A Song of Ice and Fire tabletop game. Yeah, the 2D terrain is terrible but the rules are good. I played it a few times and I didnt had the urge to smash my head against the rule book. So its better than Fantasy in that regard (just joking ofcourse   )

Its a pretty streamlined and simplified Rank&File game. I also like the round bases, square trays system. If the new Fantasy game is like ASOIAF I would be very happy!

EDIT: To explain it a bit. Units are taken in full sized blocks (so one box always equals one unit, no need to buy multiple boxes to field one unit), the number of attacks depends on the number of ranks still present (instead of individual models) and the tactics boards adds some depth. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Gecktron

[Overread]

Warhammer had 2D terrain before now - heck way back in the old days more than one boxed set came with a cardboard punchout model! Also rank and file generally works iwth less terrain - put too much down and you can't wheel to turn at all. Though how the board looks is really up to the players. A board that's basically a rollout mat with some 2D card terrain and models is basically just showing how it can work ultra cheap and easy to transport. You can, of course, go wild with a fixed table; terrain featuers etc... 

[Moldek]

42 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:

No.  I am gutted because I'm watching my group get splintered and made smaller, and thats not why I chose to play a GW game.  I chose a GW game because it was promised that it had the largest play group to facilitate competitive gaming.

Well while I understand how you feel, it’s been like 4 days since the announcement, so maybe take a few weeks to see if things settle down?

Also I doubt you were promised anything like that to be honest.

[sandlemad]

47 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:

No.  I am gutted because I'm watching my group get splintered and made smaller, and thats not why I chose to play a GW game.  I chose a GW game because it was promised that it had the largest play group to facilitate competitive gaming.

Where was this promised? And why not just shift to 40k, even with AoS's growth in the last ffew years I suspect it's still got a larger play group overall. Or was it just someone locally said this to you?

[eekamouse]

The problem with the terrain in the A Song of Ice and Fire picture isn't that it's 2D, it's how you interact with terrain that's always annoyed me about Rank and Flank. Basically, it's just a solid obstacle. Granted, at least they likely won't be using movement templates like in Rune Wars. Might as well be playing a naval miniatures game at that point.

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

Mentally wishlisting this, and thinking about the role of Total War and Vermintide in preserving affection for the setting, I think I'd prefer a Mordheim level of detailed, granular focus on the Empire and the surrounding environs for the first run of this, even if at the expense of everyone getting new minis of their beloved old army in short order

Like, at least initially I want to be playing a 750pt assortment of barely-equipped, toothless militiamen trying desperately to stop a village near Bogenhafen getting razed by beastmen, not reliving blackfire pass with more miniatures than I can fit in my house

They can logically differentiate the game's appeal from Age of Sigmar by stripping WHFB back (partially) to its original grimy roots. From what I know, a lot of the newer, late period WHFB units*(skycutters, Phoenixes suddenly existing) seem like AOS in all but name, waiting for a setting that could more coherently accommodate them. (cf also the quite strange place WFRP finds itself in narratively now)

Because AOS has made huge progress in ensuring there's an incredible variety of big armies for any player's tastes, WHFB can afford to be a more specialised, immersive game set in a more defined, fully-realised setting. Accompany every "season" of releases with tons of terrain, campaign packs etc to really fill out that part of the world, there's no rush. Give me lots of ramshackle houses, and fleeing/drunk/poisoned civilians as extras on the unit sprues etc

*Me and some of the boys was thinking about permanently retconning the existence of demigryph knights

[michu]

Eh, that's not entirely true - first years of warhammer was grimy but also more fantastical than for example 6th ed.

21 minutes ago, Jefferson Skarsnik said:

*Me and some of the boys was thinking about permanently retconning the existence of demigryph knights

TBH if there are dragons and regular gryphs in your world, what is wrong with demigryphs? In 3rd edition, even regular gryphs were just hybrids born thanks to chaotic energies. They were just stable mutants like 40k abhumans.

[EccentricCircle]

2 hours ago, michu said:

Eh, that's not entirely true - first years of warhammer was grimy but also more fantastical than for example 6th ed.

TBH if there are dragons and regular gryphs in your world, what is wrong with demigryphs? In 3rd edition, even regular gryphs were just hybrids born thanks to chaotic energies. They were just stable mutants like 40k abhumans.

I'd argue That they still are, it's just that sigmar likes them, and the gryphound sanctuary has a good PR team, so their chaotic nature gets overlooked. it helps that they are fluffy. If people wanted Jabberslythe puppies for Sigmar-mas instead then it would be a whole different situatuon.