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Gareth ūüćĄ

Warhammer - The Old World

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There is clearly *some* demand for traditional fantasy tropes, but GW maybe don't want these traditional tropes in AoS (Vampires' AoS status remains to be seen).

Therefore, this allows them to not be leaving money on the table, while keeping their vision for AoS "pure".

I think that GW survey also had a lot to do with this.

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13 minutes ago, JPjr said:

Launch - With two factions of brand new miniatures, pre-empire human tribes (Order) vs. Norsci (Chaos). 

narrative campaign around founding on empire & repelling the reavers from the chaos wastes, bonus in that it’s easy to Justify human tribes vs human tribes games as Sigmar unifies them.

Yr 2 - add some Dwarves (Order) and Orcs & Goblins (Destruction)

narrative campaign based around Battle of Black Fire Pass 

Yr 3 - add the Kurgan & Hung (chaos)

narrative campaign based around the return of the Norsii and the siege of Middenheim

Yr 4 -  add Nagash & his bone bois (Death)

campaign based around Nagash’s invasion of the old world and first defeat by Sigmar

Yr 5 - add Morkar the first Everchosen

Final part of the series with a campaign around the rise of the first Everchosen of Chaos and his full scale attack on the Empire.

JOB DONE. GW PLEASE FORWARD INVOICING DETAILS.

I like this but I'd have gone

Yr 1 Sigmar vs Norsii (Mortal Chaos)

Year 2 Dwarves vs Orcs and Gobbos

Year 3 Dark Elves  vs High Elves

Year 4 Wood Elves vs Beastmen

etc etc

 

There are loads of natural pairings in the old world that would make good box game releases as well as independent factions.

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27 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

For somebody who's admitted they've never touched WHFB, you're making a lot of assumptions and sounding very bitter, dare I say, salty.

I really don't get all this negativity coming from a community that usually prides itself on not being such. This is going to do MORE for AoS than it is harm. After a while of release, much of what resentment towards AoS that lingered will have faded away since the game will not longer have been squat'ed. This will likely bring players into AoS who shunned it for that reason.

This also opens up more design space for AoS, as GW can commit to both Old World designs for those who they appeal to in the game that was truly meant for them (WHFB) whilst having more breathing room to make AoS more unique.

Lord of the Rings supported 'return' (kind of, it was never truly squat'ed) didn't eat a chunk out of AoS either despite it having more in common with it mechanically than WHFB.

I think after having 5 years of salt poured on them they’re just having a go at it themselves. In no way is this going to detract from AoS, HH certainly hasn’t effected 40K at all in a negative way (and initially it was just a re skin with the same rules) In fact it’s just meant a load of cool extra stuff 

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I concur the first "Age of Sigmar" is one of the best choices to set the Old World game, as it lets them feature most of the races that inhabited the continent: Sigmar allied with dwarfs and kicked asses of greenskins, undead (Naghas would be featured as well, and he's a big deal in AoS) and even skaven. I don't remember if it was mentioned back then if he fought beastmen and chaos marauders, but is pretty much given and no one will rise an eyebrow for that.
I'm still more inclined towards the different campaign/era books, but your guess is as good as mine.

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58 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:

It is my hope that if thety are going to do this that they do NOT (absolutely NOT) create a different ruleset and leave it the AOS ruleset and then just make background books for the old world.

That way our communities aren't divided up, the whining cranky minority that GW is trying to appease can get their background back, but most of the competitive people like me don't really care about background anyway.  

If everyone has to use the same ruleset, there won't be any dividing up my community and making my player base smaller. 

Thats all I really care about.

I know people have said lots will play both but thats just not true here in my reality.  People will abandon AOS to play WHFB if they are given a WHFB ruleset, and that would leave things dead for me because my group would be halved in number and I'm playing BECAUSE of the GW community promising a large pool of players, not dividing us up into small little cells.

Write all the campaign books you want and set them in the old world.  Thats great.  That has no impact on my group because none of us care about campaign books, but keep the ruleset the same please!!!

I would hope that the rules would be the same so that the 2 could be interlinked and you could play an army from AOS against a WFB army. However, with the suggestion that square bases will be back it doesn't look likely even if it is 3 years away.

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8 minutes ago, Jator said:

I'm still more inclined towards the different campaign/era books

Agree. That has more potential as it could go like that:

first box - Siege of Praag (empire vs chaos)

second - War of Beard (dwarfs vs high elves)

third  - Rat and Serpent (skaven vs lizardmen)

fourth - Secret War (wood elves vs beastmen)

etc, etc...

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It's only logical that at some point of re-releasing the old games, they take the most popular of them all for new cycle. The time between is so long and the game so different that it's hard to see it anymore competing too much with AoS and the any new models are likely usable for both anyways. 

 

I expect similar product as the new version of LotR SBG. New starter box, some new character models here and there, all army lists in the same book and then campaign expansions. 

Edited by Jamopower

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When I first heard this new, I am actually pretty happy because it might end the conflict between AOS players and T9A players around me forever. However, after one day of discussion, I think that things are more than just simply everyone happy.  Here is my personal ideas.How it will come out will depend on how GW will support the new WFB, which is called TOW now. 

If it is just a 30k-style(FW) thing, I think that it won't do harm to AOS.

If it is something not FW stuff and it is something that has the same or very familiar set of rules with AOS supporting all fractions in AOS, then at least for me, it doesn't matter a lot it will do harm to AOS or not, since even if everyone turns to TOW, I can just do that too. Although it is very weird to use SCE fighting in the old world if GW supporting this.

If it is something with different rule set but not a FW project, then there will be some trouble, and how it turns out depends on how many resource it get.  The more resource it gets, the more harm it will do to AOS.

First, I don't agree that this will bring the old WFB player to play AOS. In some chat groups discussion just hours ago, I can still sense the hatred of some old WFB player(maybe?I am pretty sure they play T9A) comment likes "AOS is a mistake, maybe GW thinks that it is time to fix this mistake".  Besides, for the old WFB player, if they are willing to play AOS, they already did, why wait till now that they can just go to play TOW?

Second, for new player with limited money, if TOW and AOS are sold in parallel with similar price.  I don't see any advantage AOS have against TOW on attracting new player, many new player might just be attracted to play TOW rather than AOS. For example, TWW attract many new AOS players(at least this is the case around me). The reason is most likely that the old world is so attractive but it is gone so play the alternative, but once the old world is back, why bother to play the alternative? Even current player will probably turn to TOW, I heard such comments already. They say if TOW is not too awful, they will turn to play TOW.

Finally, the more dreadful possibility is that GW earns a lot from this TOW and decide to create a parallel timeline or more directly,¬†revert End Time itself. Then, good bye AOS.ūüėě

 

 

Edited by HammerOfSigmar
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I've been doing some thinking, and something I'm quite excited for is that there will be some increased demand and use for certain releases. 

For example, I'm assuming a Seraphon update will happen before 2-3 years (GW please), but in the future if we have both a supported Fantasy and AOS community who would both love some new Saurus and Dinosaurs to use (even just as proxies or kitbash bases), there will be two communities providing a good demand for those releases.

I'm an absolute sucker for Nurgle models. If this means another game source for me to grab models and proxies from, I'm hype. I already use Nurgle models that technically came from the End Times. And models from 40k kitbashed to fit AOS.

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I think the idea of a series of historical campaign expansions sounds great! The potential was always there to set warhammer games in earlier eras, but I've rarely seen it actually done.

Honestly I'd keep the rules as effectively the current version of AoS, probably 3e by then. Its a nice simple system, and it would be easy enough to add a layer of rank and flank type material through army specific features like allegiance abilities. That way you can have a situation where the Empire, brettonia and the tomb kings have lots of blocks of regimented troops, but you don't need the Orcs and Beastmen to line up neatly and march into battle in blocks. The ranked up rules just aren't on their army lists, but they do have rules for outflanking, and breaking up blocks of empire troops to deny them their bonuses etc.

If they keep the base system the same, then everyone wins. Each setting can have its own armies, and fans of open and narrative can mix and match as we see fit. There would be no drop in network externalities to fragment gaming groups, and we'd have lore for both awesome settings. Effectively treat the current rules as the "operating system" for both Age of Sigmar and WFB 9e. They've done something similar when they converted 40K to almost the same system (albeit with a bit of legacy complexity) so there is definitely a precedent.

Ideally I'd love to see a single core book which brings everything together, and has all of the army lists in it, effectively warhammer legends, but as a nice hardback release. Then they can release a series of themed campaign books, along with selected miniatures, including both new hero models for whatever era, and older discontinued kits rereleased (I know this is unlikely, but I can dream right?)

The unification of the Empire would certainly be a good place to start, although it might be a little bit tricky to come up with a title for such a campaign. It needs to imply that it takes place in an earlier Age, one during which Sigmar is doing his thing...

I think "Warhammer: Age of Sigmar" might be taken though...

All told this has the potential to be a really cool project, and I'll be very interested to see what comes of it, regardless of whether Tomb Kings come back, which would obviously be the best of all possible situations!

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GW wants to make money right.. If they are going to release a box set three years from now I can gurantree a way for it to be an instant best seller and that is of its brettonia vs tomb kings. Would probably be the most sold item they would ever sell. 

Anyone who ever player fantasy battles would buy that set. I would and only ever collected a small Brettonian army. The allure of the long dead would be to great. 

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They really should've waited until they had a concrete plan of what they're planning to do with it. As now we've been locked into years of arguing and fearmongering about whether they'd bin another setting.

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I can't find it, but how many miniatures were made for WHFB in its last three years?

Waiting another three years isn't worse than having the game active was for many factions.

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On 11/15/2019 at 6:03 PM, angrycontra said:

I'm interested in this but only if it has been designed with round bases in mind. It would be pretty ludicrous of gw to release a game that needs square bases after working so hard to make most of those old boxes round based. 

Well pretty much the only thing we know atm is that it will have square bases in it.

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19 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

ALL REGULAR HUMANS ARE 32mm-34mm already OPEN YOUR EYES.

 but hey just stay a Trump. I rest my case, the ignorance is strong in you.

Another one for the ignore list.

Question to Moderators - can you ‚Äúencourage‚Ä̬†¬†people not to bring politics to this discussions? Some of us visit this forum to get some rest from all the ‚Äúprogressive‚Ä̬†****** that is¬†forced down our throat in everyday life...¬†

Edited by Veles
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GW has already tooled new movement trays for Apocalypse round bases. Add a square base version and you can rank up. Troop blocks will be a bit more spread out, but buying huge armies was always the issue. I could see this benefiting GW - you can still sell trays to old collectors.

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GW has lost some market share due to KoW and T9A, they’re now seeking to claw it back with an existing IP. 

Im just wondering if it will have points or will they just let it flounder for the first 12 months?

Someone call mo ashraf!

Edited by MOMUS
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well it looks like Mantics definitely knows about it since they just made a video KoW 3rd editions that throw a bit of shade to GW

"we don't blow our worlds, we build them up" 

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17 hours ago, michu said:

And your first reaction to @Battlefury post indicated that you agree with thesis that making WH:Old World is what makes GW EA. Your edit makes it clearer.

Also not correct. It is not this product, that makes GW equal to EA. It is the path they already took until now, beginning at least 1 year ago.

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I am awaiting the announcement that GW are going to go back to making wooden backgammon boards in 2036.

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4 hours ago, Veles said:

Question to Moderators - can you ‚Äúencourage‚Ä̬†¬†people not to bring politics to this discussions? Some of us visit this forum to get some rest from all the ‚Äúprogressive‚Ä̬†****** that is¬†forced down our throat in everyday life...¬†

Please don't react to things you don't want to see by doing the exact same thing.

There has been enough antagonising in this thread.

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13 hours ago, karch said:

Well pretty much the only thing we know atm is that it will have square bases in it.

Not even that. The square base was just a sneak-peak to another teaser-preview that only showed the only oficial thing at this moment: the logo.

 

Edit: @Panzer beat me XD. Square bases incoming too.

Edited by Beliman

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9 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Not even that. The square base was just a sneak-peak to another teaser-preview that only showed the only oficial thing at this moment: the logo.

That's not really true.

 

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So...? How does it tell us how square bases will be used? Will all miniatures use them? Will they instead be square trays with inserts for round bases? Does only infantry blocks use them? Where it only used as that was a very visual and remembered difference from AOS?

The answer to all that is that we don¬īt really know. It was only used in the promotion video for the announcement of a game that is years and years away. It can be a hint of things to come (bases) to be used but also as a tool for nostalgia and a pure marketing strategy.

Until we actually get more information I¬īd say we don¬īt actually know anything besides the game is supposed to be based in the Old World and that¬īs it!

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17 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

Finally, the more dreadful possibility is that GW earns a lot from this TOW and decide to create a parallel timeline or more directly,¬†revert End Time itself. Then, good bye AOS.ūüėě

 

 

Which is depressing because AoS is a far more interesting setting than TOW ever was, but I guess in this age of ruthless capitalism derivative generic fantasy is going to be a safer stockholder investment¬†than any attempts at originality. ūüėĘ

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