Warhammer - The Old World

[JackStreicher]

4 minutes ago, michu said:

Hmmm, maybe there is a difference between new books with lore, rules, narrative scenarios and other things and cosmetic changes (e.a. skins)?

And your first reaction to @Battlefury post indicated that you agree with thesis that making WH:Old World is what makes GW EA. Your edit makes it clearer.

I did not interpret his posting as you did. There was a lot of subjective truth of what he said, he then separately compared GW to EA and highlighted that they don‘t release WHF again for us, but for the cash they can grab since they actually don‘t give a damn about the community. - which is something that my personal experience confirms. =}

 

and again GW: Shareholder (interest: money), I don‘t see the community team or the artist as GW if I grumble about the company since they don‘t make the prices and they can‘t make any decisions by themselves concerning products.
 

Edited November 16, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Beliman]

14 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I mean that's what WHFB players were always told here.

/Facepalm

[michu]

9 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

WHF again for us, but for the cash they can grab since they actually don‘t give a damn about the community. - which is something that my personal experience confirms.

No company does something for community.  Every product on this world is a cashgrab, be it AoS, WFB, KoW...

EDIT: But those cashgrabs exist because someone want to buy it. And if GW thinks enough people would want to buy Old World why shouldn't they do it?

Edited November 16, 2019 by michu

[JackStreicher]

7 minutes ago, michu said:

No company does something for community.  Every product on this world is a cashgrab, be it AoS, WFB, KoW...

True but they‘re trying to sell it that way because they know there are hardcore fans. (And people actually believe it and throw money at them and defend GW everytime someone raises a finger)

Edited November 16, 2019 by JackStreicher

[michu]

11 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

True but they‘re trying to sell it that way because they know there are hardcore fans. (And people actually believe it and throw money at them and defend GW everytime someone raises a finger)

Sell it what way? You still sound like you're angry at company because they produce something at all.

It's simple - people want to play something, company thinks it can earn money on that, company produce that game.

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by michu

[Cèsar de Quart]

13 hours ago, Overread said:

There are two groups - one within AoS and one withing Warhammer Old World - both of which have some die hard fanatics who give the rest of the entire fanbase (most of which cross over both games without any problem) a bad name. Early on there was some considerable hostility form the Old World against AoS; but this was MORE aimed at GW; however it was often expressed poorly and came off as or was attacks on the AoS gamers. 

Online though it was also genera hijacking of threads about AoS turning into pepole complaining about how AoS killed everything and it wasn't Old World

I like to think that as time has gone on and especially since GW turned over a new leaf and started with AoS 2.0; that a lot of that fanatic hatred has gone away. Sure there will still be a few; and more than a few who run youtube or blogs who do so just for the clicks from being all edgy; but otherwise the vast majority won't be hostile. Heck a large portion of AoS players are Old World players. We even have a huge thread on i

In the end we are all just people who like our miniatures. Be it to collect, to convert, to sculpt, to paint, to battle - and a whole mish mash of all those things added up. 

Yes. As I've said, if anything, AoS has spurred imagination. The Old World is free to move in new directions in your own head, your old minis are mostly still here (mostly), we have play systems adapted to both worlds... and with GW doing the Old World conga, we've got the chance to mend the mistake and keep the Old World alive with new rules and (hopefully) new minis.

Again, this can only be good.

If they do like 30k and release a box with all-new High Elf vs Orcs, or Empire vs Chaos sculps, you bet my money will be there waiting for them.

Heck, I'm putting 150 euros right now in a box. Three years from now I'll take them out, go to the store and tell the black polo shirt guy "I HAVE CROSSED OCEANS OF TIME".

Edited November 16, 2019 by Cèsar de Quart

[Ollie Grimwood]

Just a thought it’s called Warhammer The Old World (at the moment) and the map is of the Old World part of the Warhammer world. Might be that it’s going to be a bit more pared back in comparison to WFB. Maybe that’s part of the Horus Heresy similarity, a reduced number of races/factions and a more concentrated scope. 

[Panzer]

1 minute ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

Just a thought it’s called Warhammer The Old World (at the moment) and the map is of the Old World part of the Warhammer world. Might be that it’s going to be a bit more pared back in comparison to WFB. Maybe that’s part of the Horus Heresy similarity, a reduced number of races/factions and a more concentrated scope. 

Yeah I was thinking about that as well. Doesn't bode well for my Tomb Kings but gives hope for a Kislev army.  

[michu]

Or it can be a series of campaign books - first Old World (War of Beard, Karak Eight Peaks, War against Greenskins), then Southlands, then Lustria, then Ulthuan and Naggaroth...

[Ollie Grimwood]

3 minutes ago, Panzer said:

Yeah I was thinking about that as well. Doesn't bode well for my Tomb Kings but gives hope for a Kislev army.  

Yeah, 5 possible human factions, Empire,  Bretonnia, Estalia, Tilea and Kislev plus the additional 6th mixed humans of the Border Princes. Would reduce production a bit have a base human model and 5 different add on packs like they do for the Astartes Legions. 

[Dead Scribe]

It is my hope that if thety are going to do this that they do NOT (absolutely NOT) create a different ruleset and leave it the AOS ruleset and then just make background books for the old world.

That way our communities aren't divided up, the whining cranky minority that GW is trying to appease can get their background back, but most of the competitive people like me don't really care about background anyway.  

If everyone has to use the same ruleset, there won't be any dividing up my community and making my player base smaller. 

Thats all I really care about.

I know people have said lots will play both but thats just not true here in my reality.  People will abandon AOS to play WHFB if they are given a WHFB ruleset, and that would leave things dead for me because my group would be halved in number and I'm playing BECAUSE of the GW community promising a large pool of players, not dividing us up into small little cells.

Write all the campaign books you want and set them in the old world.  Thats great.  That has no impact on my group because none of us care about campaign books, but keep the ruleset the same please!!!

Edited November 16, 2019 by Dead Scribe

[michu]

That's why I think it won't be just old WFB - it will be set in that setting but with different ruleset. Preferably Warmaster-like 

Edited November 16, 2019 by michu

[Clan's Cynic]

24 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:

That way our communities aren't divided up, the whining cranky minority that GW is trying to appease can get their background back

For somebody who's admitted they've never touched WHFB, you're making a lot of assumptions and sounding very bitter, dare I say, salty.

I really don't get all this negativity coming from a community that usually prides itself on not being such. This is going to do MORE for AoS than it is harm. After a while of release, much of what resentment towards AoS that lingered will have faded away since the game will not longer have been squat'ed. This will likely bring players into AoS who shunned it for that reason.

This also opens up more design space for AoS, as GW can commit to both Old World designs for those who they appeal to in the game that was truly meant for them (WHFB) whilst having more breathing room to make AoS more unique.

Lord of the Rings supported 'return' (kind of, it was never truly squat'ed) didn't eat a chunk out of AoS either despite it having more in common with it mechanically than WHFB.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Clan's Cynic

[Panzer]

15 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:

It is my hope that if thety are going to do this that they do NOT (absolutely NOT) create a different ruleset and leave it the AOS ruleset and then just make background books for the old world.

That way our communities aren't divided up, the whining cranky minority that GW is trying to appease can get their background back, but most of the competitive people like me don't really care about background anyway.  

If everyone has to use the same ruleset, there won't be any dividing up my community and making my player base smaller. 

Thats all I really care about.

I know people have said lots will play both but thats just not true here in my reality.  People will abandon AOS to play WHFB if they are given a WHFB ruleset, and that would leave things dead for me because my group would be halved in number and I'm playing BECAUSE of the GW community promising a large pool of players, not dividing us up into small little cells.

Write all the campaign books you want and set them in the old world.  Thats great.  That has no impact on my group because none of us care about campaign books, but keep the ruleset the same please!!!

I don't think GW wants to appease a "whining cranky minority". That doesn't generate much money if at all. Most people who are interested in this new system are very likely ones that would still be playing AoS as well.

I also don't think it would split the community nearly as much as some people here claim. It might be the case for your local community and in that case it would suck for you and I'd be sorry for you but I'm confident it's not the case on a global scale and thus has absolutely no relevance for GW.

 

I'd appreciate it a lot if we'd stop the name calling and the sky is falling mentality.

[michu]

1 minute ago, Panzer said:

I'd appreciate it a lot if we'd stop the name calling and the sky is falling mentality.

We're on the internet. It's tradition.

[Panzer]

2 minutes ago, michu said:

We're on the internet. It's tradition.

Tradition has always been one of the worst arguments in history.

[michu]

1 minute ago, Panzer said:

Tradition has always been one of the worst arguments in history.

Agree. 

[JPjr]

Been thinking about this more and doing it around the birth of the Empire. So no messing with any of the End Times stuff.

All new models, no hangovers from 10-20 yr old factions or designs. Keep it tight with just a couple of factions that you slowly expand.

base it around key characters that people both into WHFB & AoS will know and make it entirely narrative driven, building up from Skirmish sized games till later in the series when people have bigger armies.

 

Launch - With two factions of brand new miniatures, pre-empire human tribes (Order) vs. Norsci (Chaos). 

narrative campaign around founding on empire & repelling the reavers from the chaos wastes, bonus in that it’s easy to Justify human tribes vs human tribes games as Sigmar unifies them.

Yr 2 - add some Dwarves (Order) and Orcs & Goblins (Destruction)

narrative campaign based around Battle of Black Fire Pass 

Yr 3 - add the Kurgan & Hung (chaos)

narrative campaign based around the return of the Norsii and the siege of Middenheim

Yr 4 -  add Nagash & his bone bois (Death)

campaign based around Nagash’s invasion of the old world and first defeat by Sigmar

Yr 5 - add Morkar the first Everchosen

Final part of the series with a campaign around the rise of the first Everchosen of Chaos and his full scale attack on the Empire.

JOB DONE. GW PLEASE FORWARD INVOICING DETAILS.

[michu]

It's sounds good @JPjr but I think that people would like to get Karl Franz Empire (pantaloons and moustaches) not barbarian beginnings. Maybe it's better to set it during the reigns of Magnus the pious?

[JPjr]

NO PANTALOONS!

 

but seriously if you’re going to try and capitalise on the success of Age of SIGMAR, that’s pulled in loads of new people surely you base your game around the rise of Sigmar, and his first confrontations with Nagash & an Everchosen.

rather than some Magnus dude who you then have to explain where in the timeline of the empire it is etc etc, much easier to just start at the beginning.

plus NO PANTALOONS!

Edited November 16, 2019 by JPjr

[Still-young]

2 hours ago, Overread said:

I don't think so at all. I've heard some rumour or hint that some might be push fit instead of full retail release sisters; but all the models in the set are regular Sister of Battle models. They are all going to hit the retail shelves. Sure GW might not release all of those models at launch of the core of the range and its clear that there's going to be a bit of lag time between now and when Sisters goes on full retail release, but they are not going to make moulds for two penetant engines and such. 

They are though. The Penitent engine in the box doesn’t have weapons options, there’s options in the codex. The models are all monopose, we’ve been shown some of the full kits now. 

[michu]

8 minutes ago, JPjr said:

rather than some Magnus dude who you then have to explain where in the timeline of the empire it is etc etc, much easier to just start at the beginning.

Three words. Siege. Of. Praag.

Edited November 16, 2019 by michu

[Kamose]

Oh my god...what if...

...this is the start of AoS End Times!!

They're rebooting the game...in reverse!

😱

[michu]

Just now, Kamose said:

Oh my god...what if...

...this is the start of AoS End Times!!

They're rebooting the game...in reverse!

😱

That joke was already done. And for last time... GW said it will be like 30k for 40k. No rebooting, just historical gaming in fantasy setting.

[Panzer]

12 minutes ago, JPjr said:

NO PANTALOONS!

 

but seriously if you’re going to try and capitalise on the success of Age of SIGMAR, that’s pulled in loads of new people surely you base your game around the rise of Sigmar, and his first confrontations with Nagash & an Everchosen.

rather than some Magnus dude who you then have to explain where in the timeline of the empire it is etc etc, much easier to just start at the beginning.

plus NO PANTALOONS!

I kinda agree. If they want to keep the ties to AoS they need to set it in a timeperiod where most of the know characters where already active and/or alive. If they weren't doing that they could just as well go really far back to the timeperiod where the Tomb Kings where still alive as they were the oldest human civilisation but that would be too far detached from AoS. It's not like it's in 40k where names from 10k years ago are still relevant and soldiers and traditions (aka Marines) are still mostly the same just a bit evolved.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Panzer