Warhammer - The Old World

[Beliman]

2 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

I’m pretty sure it’s a tweaked version as they mentioned that last year.

I hope so. Horus Heresy 2.0 seems to be a polished version of HH1.0:

• Change half of all Special universal rules for a simplified version that has more options than before (bulky and vey bulky for bulky (X)).
• New (and more fun) psychic phase (no more RNG BOOM).
• More unit types and some changes (contemptors being Monstrous Creatures, maybe they are a bit overpowered but the game feels really good with so much infantery).
• Reduction dmg from AoE attacks, templates and ordenance weapons. You can play with ALL your specialists teams!! Hurra!
• Simplified special deploys: outflanks, infiltrates, drop pods, etc... all have the same pattern with just a few (and unique) diferences to make them feel unique.
• Tweaked charactersitic tables and movement characteristic (with a polished charging phase and wording).
• ReActions! I was a bit worried with some combos or #feelbad moments, but I was wrong. After a few games, they become just another part of the game. They are like mind tricks, but they are so telegraphed that are not so big plays anymore (bigger games with more detachments and units that give you more reaction will change that, but in 2000-2500p games, they are a bit limited to make a big play).

I expect something like that: 8ed  ruleset, completely polished (charges, LoS, USR, etc...) with some 3-7ed elements, tweaked/polished phases, tweaked characteristic and tables (WSvsWS, SvsT), new/diferent units-type, etc...

[Tervindar]

On 8/21/2022 at 6:32 AM, Public Universal Duardin said:

Has anyone heard any recent rumours about TOW? I had a slight realisation that I hadn't heard TOW mentioned in a while, when I was thinking on how GW seems to push HH. Seems the latest direct rumours are over half a year old...

No, new news at this point. I'm just working on building 6th edition armies now. 

[Beliman]

New this week!!

Quote

We’ve also got a busy week right here on the Warhammer Community website. There are reveals for Warcry, more on Kill Team: Shadowvaults, and an update on The Old World.

[Twisted Firaun]

Here’s hoping it’s either confirmation of Tomb Kings, Vampire Coasts, or better yet a release date!!!

[Still-young]

20 minutes ago, Twisted Firaun said:

Here’s hoping it’s either confirmation of Tomb Kings, Vampire Coasts, or better yet a release date!!!

They won’t even give a release date when they preview the starter box or whatever the first release ends up being. 

Excited to see what they’ve got for us though, nice to get some idea of what’s going on at this point. 

[Noserenda]

Id just prepare for another map personally

[madmac]

39 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

Id just prepare for another map personally

Tomorrow will be the big ToW reveal, finally tying back to the original promo with square bases. You know what square bases are perfect for? Maps. ToW will be an innovative strategy battle game fought exclusively using maps.  You start out buying a little bit of Reikland here, a bit of Middenland there. When your entire collection of molded plastic map pieces are placed on the battlefield together, your individual map tokens will create a full map of the Empire!

 

[Baron Klatz]

Yeah, the way it’s slapped on at the end of a list in the middle of a random week does feel like they were obligated to post something before the year is over.

They still need a Dark Lands map to show how the heck Cathay can possibly interact with the western storyline.

So that’s my guess. Border Prince-style map of Kislev and Civil War provinces able to fight Cathay in expansions with a Chaos Dwarves logo is slapped in the corner to keep interests up.

[Still-young]

4 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

Yeah, the way it’s slapped on at the end of a list in the middle of a random week does feel like they were obligated to post something before the year is over.

They still need a Dark Lands map to show how the heck Cathay can possibly interact with the western storyline.

So that’s my guess. Border Prince-style map of Kislev and Civil War provinces able to fight Cathay in expansions with a Chaos Dwarves logo is slapped in the corner to keep interests up.

Sad thing is I know it’ll work for me. Love a nice map. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Hopes: Some kind of cool concept art

Dreams: Actual models

Reals: m a p

[Sunshine]

I am hoping that any new models will be at the same high standard as the current Age of Sigmar ones. Take the High Elf rework for example, the Lumineth models are better in each case than their Fantasy equivalents. I really do wish I picked up a sky cutter though before Fantasy was destroyed. It was such a beautiful model.

I also now prefer the appearance of models on rounds and the better spacing due to the base shape. 

The main question that I would like answering is how crossover will work between Age of Sigmar and The Old World. I hope that round bases can be used, so that numerous models can be used in both games. So many of the old armies still have models in Age of Sigmar or equivalents. There are wood elf, dwarves, empire and dark elves represented in cities of Sigmar. Lumineth are like for like with high elves. Slaves to darkness carry across. Most of destruction does too. Some of death does too but the aesthetic may have changed too much.

[Jator]

The update is here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/10/14/warhammer-the-old-world-orcs-bretonnians-tomb-kings-arrive/

[EccentricCircle]

I'd have liked something a bit more concrete. On the one hand they claim to be doing layout on the book, but on the other no actual details on what releases will look like.

It's telling that they shared concept art for the big three squatted factions though. I guess we can take that as confirmation that they will at the very least do made to order for the old model s and maybe, just maybe give us something new!

i look forward to playing my beloved Tomb Kings again... Someday. Maybe I'll finally make the orcs and goblins army I was considering before the cull.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, EccentricCircle said:

I'd have liked something a bit more concrete. On the one hand they claim to be doing layout on the book, but on the other no actual details on what releases will look like.

It's telling that they shared concept art for the big three squatted factions though. I guess we can take that as confirmation that they will at the very least do made to order for the old model s and maybe, just maybe give us something new!

i look forward to playing my beloved Tomb Kings again... Someday. Maybe I'll finally make the orcs and goblins army I was considering before the cull.

The logistics of how they intend to make all the old factions playable again is still utterly mysterious to me, but I also find it encouraging that they have specifically shown off art of Bretonnia, Tomb Kings and Orks and Goblins. Let's hope they are not just doing it for the hype.

[Gaz Taylor]

6 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The logistics of how they intend to make all the old factions playable again is still utterly mysterious to me, but I also find it encouraging that they have specifically shown off art of Bretonnia, Tomb Kings and Orks and Goblins. Let's hope they are not just doing it for the hype.

This is what is blowing my mind at moment as well as how this sits with AOS. The only way I can see it working is there is a core range that straddles both systems which is enhanced with specific kits for each system. I’ll be honest, I’m quite excited and thinking about starting some units now in anticipation for when this comes out (hinting next year). Doesn’t help I’m also looking at Warmaster Revolution at moment!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Gaz Taylor said:

This is what is blowing my mind at moment as well as how this sits with AOS. The only way I can see it working is there is a core range that straddles both systems which is enhanced with specific kits for each system. I’ll be honest, I’m quite excited and thinking about starting some units now in anticipation for when this comes out (hinting next year). Doesn’t help I’m also looking at Warmaster Revolution at moment!

That's what I was expecting at first, but doesn't it kind of seem like we are moving away from that with recent releases? The High Elf range is no longer available, and Lumineth are not really a perfect match, and their stated intent with Cities of Sigmar is to be notably different from the Empire. Definitely does not seem like AoS releases are being future proofed for dual purpose use with TOW.

[Baron Klatz]

5 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

(hinting next year).

Eeeh, that “more news in 2023” sounded like the opposite with just more drip feed.

Gotta remember it takes at least 3 years for this stuff to go from concept to model. If they got the basics down this year then it might be possibly 2024 at earliest, throw in global events and even AoS took 8 years and 2026 isn’t far fetched either. 

8 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

This is what is blowing my mind at moment as well as how this sits with AOS.

According to 2020 interviews they don’t sit together at all.

AoS studio said they were as clueless about the World-that-was project as we are so they haven’t planned anything together.

Since TOW seems to be catering to the old scale and designs they might become even more divergent. TOW staying small and ranked and AoS gets bigger and bigger like we see with the Witch Hunters.

Getting people to buy the same model twice for two different games(ex: huge Chaos knights AoS vs smaller FW chaos knights) certainly would appeal to the bean counters…

[Gaz Taylor]

2 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

Eeeh, that “more news in 2023” sounded like the opposite with just more drip feed.

Gotta remember it takes at least 3 years for this stuff to go from concept to model. If they got the basics down this year then it might be possibly 2024 at earliest, throw in global events and even AoS took 8 years and 2026 isn’t far fetched either. 

Maybe. I am making an assumption about it being the 40th anniversary of Warhammer next year, so that makes sense to me to do something then. 😁

2 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

According to 2020 interviews they don’t sit together at all.

AoS studio said they were as clueless about the World-that-was project as we are so they haven’t planned anything together.

Since TOW seems to be catering to the old scale and designs they might become even more divergent. TOW staying small and ranked and AoS gets bigger and bigger like we see with the Witch Hunters.

Getting people to buy the same model twice for two different games(ex: huge Chaos knights AoS vs smaller FW chaos knights) certainly would appeal to the bean counters…

Again it’s blowing my mind. What they are proposing is a massive range of miniatures in addition to AOS and the logistics are just melting my mind! Originally I was thinking it would be like Warmaster but when they said it would be more refined version of Fantasy and similar sized models, I’m not sure. I’m half thinking they do something where we see individual miniatures like command models and adjusting unit sizes but the core models are like strips a bit like Warmaster. Would probably be easier to produce that way but again no idea.

[silverstu]

1 hour ago, Gaz Taylor said:

Maybe. I am making an assumption about it being the 40th anniversary of Warhammer next year, so that makes sense to me to do something then. 😁

Again it’s blowing my mind. What they are proposing is a massive range of miniatures in addition to AOS and the logistics are just melting my mind! Originally I was thinking it would be like Warmaster but when they said it would be more refined version of Fantasy and similar sized models, I’m not sure. I’m half thinking they do something where we see individual miniatures like command models and adjusting unit sizes but the core models are like strips a bit like Warmaster. Would probably be easier to produce that way but again no idea.

Yes I thought the 40 year anniversary was a clear indication of intent.

It does sound like they are planning a large release like the Horus Heresy. I imagine they could initially use some of the old kits [maybe as made to order or direct order] as the basis of the armies and then add to them/replace elements with new units as they go. A lot of the dwarf,orc and High elf kits hold up pretty well for example, especially the elites as they are more recent.So they could concentrate on replacing the older core units first with a hero or two. For dwarfs I'd love to see new warriors and plastic slayers, the Iron breakers and hammerer kits are excellent. [norse dwarfs would be superb..].

The art looks like the original miniatures and did give me a good dose of good vibes..

[Rachmani]

On 8/24/2022 at 5:11 PM, Gaz Taylor said:

That’s the direction I’m heading in. I love AOS but getting older I’d rather have smaller games. The core Warcry rules getting published is ace as that’s something to play with as I love the IP.

I’m pretty sure it’s a tweaked version as they mentioned that last year. That could be very different now with where the world is now and how they think people will get it. It’s possible they will try something new but I’m doubtful. Ideal scenario in my head is them doing a range of models at a slightly smaller scale and doing them as blocks rather than individual models (I used to hate the “wound” markers after the fighting ranks 🤣). That could be cool and different enough for people to pick it up. 

I‘ve become a big fan of 1000 point games for the same reason. Smaller, faster, just as much fun. Especially if all players are of the same spirit - in our case, we want to have fun, tell stories through our games and be mildly competitive while doing so.

So. What I would love, is something akin to the feeling I had with my first orcs & goblins or empire army. 
Small battle bands, that just looked awesome - even though the game definitely had its problem.

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Rachmani

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

37 minutes ago, silverstu said:

So they could concentrate on replacing the older core units first with a hero or two. For dwarfs I'd love to see new warriors and plastic slayers, the Iron breakers and hammerer kits are excellent. [norse dwarfs would be superb..].

I would love to see this, but it is just so hard to believe they will be able to do it when there are several current AoS armies that need the same treatment and have not been getting it for years.

[madmac]

On 10/14/2022 at 10:04 PM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I would love to see this, but it is just so hard to believe they will be able to do it when there are several current AoS armies that need the same treatment and have not been getting it for years.

Yeah, Skaven and Seraphon are still playing with models old enough to drink but this new game with unproven sales is going to blow into town and fix everything?

I think Horus Heresy is a more realistic benchmark, or Middle Earth. You'll get some plastic, a whole lot of resin, and a release schedule that no one can keep track of.

[Twisted Firaun]

36 minutes ago, madmac said:

Yeah, Skaven and Seraphon are still playing with models old enough to drink but this new game with unproven sales is going to blow into town and fix everything?

I think Horus Heresy is a more realistic benchmark, or Middle Earth. You'll get some plastic, a whole lot of resin, and a spastic release schedule that no one can keep track of.

Some of those models are legitimately older than some of the people on this site (myself included). 

Don’t get me wrong, I have little to no connection to the Old World besides loving the models and lore for Tomb Kings, Chorfs, and a couple (previously) smaller factions. I don’t need a massive +12 kit release, but I’d like to not have to bid over 100 dollars for some tomb guard. If TOW makes that possible, I won’t complain.

[Chikout]

Just been trying to wrap my head around the logistics of this project. 

The first thing to say is that this project is the brainchild of Andy Hoare and is being run entirely by the specialist team. There is no indication that the main studio will consider the old world when designing future AoS kits. 

The scuttlebut is that the two studios don't exactly get on. This is part of the reason why a lot of forgeworld minis don't get rules in the main AoS or 40k books. 

Even new there still aren't chaos rules for the new Horus Heresy tanks in 40k. 

So unless there is a major policy shift The Old world will be specialist games only with no cross compatibility with AoS. 

 

The specialist studio is small with a limited number of designers all of whom have their own responsibilities. For example all the recent  plastic Middle Earth kits have been designed by Gavin Newton. If he is brought over to work on The Old World it means no more Middle Earth plastics. Keith Robertson was in one of the videos. He used to do middle Earth resins and has probably moved over to work on The Old World. There have recently been a couple of new hires but no more than that. 

I imagine that the Old World project has 4 designers at most. In an interview about blood Bowl a while ago a designer said it took about 3 months to design a plastic  kit after concepting. With 4 full time designers that means a maximum of 16 kits a year. 

So if they wanted to design a whole new faction like Kislev it would take all their designers a full year to design the range after concept work is completed. It then takes two more years to bring a range to market.

So starting in 2019 if you allow for a year of concept work and preproduction before design starts, it's possible to imagine a release in 2024 with two full factions ready to go.  After that there could be two smaller waves of minis each year. 

All of that is assuming there are 4 designers working full time on The Old world and not doing any Bloodbowl, Necromunda etc. 

My guess is that they will have two factions ready in the first year with a mix of plastic and resin in  at least 2024, bring back some old kits and add a few resin kits for some of the other factions. 

After that probably depends on how successful the launch is. 

Even the big relaunch of Horus Heresy has only had a dozen plastic kits so far. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

I'm not sure it's completely true that the main studio wouldn't consider ToW when making sculpts.

Two major army releases were Soulblight Gravelords and now Slaves to Darkness, both of which have kits that could easily be purposed for that. So at least from results, we can see there is some consideration going on there.

If that pattern continues, and they are considering ToW to some degree, we'd probably see in AoS a second round of Soulblight, and then another faction with older kits (Skaven, Beasts of Chaos, Seraphon, etc.) get a fairly faithful update.

That said, your numbers on factions are likely right. Two, maybe three or four with the main troops as plastic, but heroes as FW resin is almost certainly the model they'll go for.

Edited October 15, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion