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Warhammer - The Old World


Gareth 🍄

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I won't be surprise if the game will be made for 1000 points skirmishes because their audience is video game players from Total War who aren't going to spend the money for an entire army, paint and tools, and take weeks to assemble before playing their first game.

Edited by ian0delond
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The advantage of a smaller scale is you can put a whole factions core units on one plastic sprue and then back that up with more plastic, resin, whatever, which given how much they are promising with Old World seems increasingly likely, 2 entirely new races with zero crossover and at least one more faction for them to fight... Its a huge release, much, much bigger than anything thats come before, from a main range, let alone specialist games. Well, unless they spread it over 6 months like they have the latest Marine and Necron waves but that hasnt been very popular (Probably profitable though...)

Warmaster wasnt a great hit, its arguably the least popular legacy specialist game and with Horus more mainstream and now a titan class using the name a rebrand wouldnt be unexpected, though id expect a different rules system as Warmaster, while a great wargame, wasnt very "warhammer feeling".

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4 hours ago, ian0delond said:

I won't be surprise if the game will be made for 1000 points skirmishes because their audience is video game players from Total War who aren't going to spend the money for an entire army, paint and tools, and take weeks to assemble before playing their first game.

That isn't their market. Video game players who are not wargamers are just video game players. They might get the odd box; but they won't buy into the whole game. Heck as yourself how many books you've read from watching movies. I'm willing to bet many people don't even realise how most hollywood films actually have book written about them. 

Or comics; there are loads of game/film tie in comic series and I'd wager hardly anyone ever looks them up either.

 

 

Yes GW uses its licence to market itself, but the majority customerbase won't be Old World fans.

And those who are, they aren't going to be impressed with 10 models on the table. They were tempted to the tabletop and Old World with hundreds of units on the table; with big rank and file formations clashing whilst epic dragons and hydra deal vast damage to swathes of troops. They'd at least be wanting 20 or 30 man or more units for those blocks of infantry. They want to recreate that experience within the bounds of  a wargame. Going full skirmish would be working with the Vermintide fanbase (which is potentially bigger any way) 

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I wouldnt write off computer games as a recruiter, Dawn of War pulled in huge numbers of new people to 40k and i wouldnt be surprised to see most of the other games pulling in numbers in proportion to their successes or relevance. Wargamers are hardly some elite class of geek :D

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2 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Warmaster wasnt a great hit, its arguably the least popular legacy specialist game and with Horus more mainstream and now a titan class using the name a rebrand wouldnt be unexpected, though id expect a different rules system as Warmaster, while a great wargame, wasnt very "warhammer feeling".

Gosh it really was a masterpiece of game and model Design though. One of Preistly’s absolute best. Really evocative and deeply tactical game. I sometimes wish GW could tempt Him back into the fold. 

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Even if I continue to play mostly AoS These will double as splendid proxies for Cities of Sigmar armies (or whatever the equivalent eventually is). The cool thing about AoS is that it’s large enough to encompass all these factions. One could imagine the kislevites as an ancient and dour human culture somewhere deep in the frozen tundra of Shyish for example, or the Cathayan army as being natives of Azyr or Hysh. I really hope there is an easy back and forth base-wise. Movement trays with room for embellishment with thematic scenery would be lovely. I would much prefer my models to be able to do double duty in both games, and having rebased Throgg and my Troll country monster horde I really don’t feel like switching them back to squares.

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9 hours ago, Noserenda said:

I wouldnt write off computer games as a recruiter, Dawn of War pulled in huge numbers of new people to 40k and i wouldnt be surprised to see most of the other games pulling in numbers in proportion to their successes or relevance. Wargamers are hardly some elite class of geek :D

Dawn of War and Space Marine in combination with the HH Blacklibrary books pulled me back to the hobby after some time away and I've heard from others they had the same experience. 

They could be seen as the new Heroquest/Space Crusade entry point that started a lot of us down this path in the 90s.

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19 hours ago, HollowHills said:

Does anyone else suspect The Old World might turn out to be small scale models (like warmaster) or something?

Now they are talking about Kislev and Cathay, which is presumably in addition to the core old factions like Empire, Brets, High elves etc.

We'd be talking about a game as big as WH40k and AoS. Presumably needing at least two factions to come out at once to get it started. 

I can't see how the specialist games team can run that or GW have the production capacity. Also arent they worried about splitting their playerbase?

I'm starting to feel like the old world is going to be something quite different and there could be some real rage when that difference comes to light.

Not sure.. on the one hand Kislev and Cathay allows them to release models that don't compete with existing older armies/AoS but then again they still probably need green skins and the empire etc to fill the setting out. But these factions give them somewhere to go. But yeah I did think Warmaster type scale is possible -especially as they did Araby there and it Ould be easy to fill out armies in plastic sets at that scale. If they scale to right and the models look great I'd be happy with that as well - huge armies.. very tempting.

Having said that they are marketing it as Warhammer so its more likely to follow the existing scale, which enables to use some of the old models to flesh out the setting [similar to the Lord of the Rings]. I think they are being quite ambitious with it and scaling it at 28/32mm gives them plenty of scope for where they can go- they can recapture some of the old Warhammer fans who didn't take up AoS and also get cross sales between AoS and Warhammer similar to 30k and 40k. Warmaster scale they have to make everything from scratch, current scale there are old and existing models they can use for the basis of armies, old terrain sets they can rerelease, plus a lot of goodwill they can recapture by the return of an old favourite. 

 

Edited by silverstu
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If GW decided to make TOW a smaller scale like Warmaster, I would be extremely disappointed, but I would never be mad at GW for not stating it or anything like that. It's their game and can choose to design it any way they wish, and there is a fanbase that would be very happy so it'll still be fun to see never before seen factions get some development. 

That said I personally hope it's a similar scale, mostly to then bring over models for conversions within AoS. I do wonder how many factions we'll see at the release of TOW, it seems the design and conceptualization  is rather far along for Kislev and Cathay at least.

Still smiling writing those 2 factions together in the same sentence.

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Yeah the impact of DoW on the popularity of 40k really cannot be understated.

It drew in massive amounts of people to the game and setting and even now, 16 years later, is THE definitive icon of what 40K is all about to a degree the BL books or tabletop game itself are tiny in comparison to.

Maybe as the decades go on that'll change, but I'd say it's more likely some other 40K game will come along and take that spot.

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12 hours ago, Bosskelot said:

Yeah the impact of DoW on the popularity of 40k really cannot be understated.

It drew in massive amounts of people to the game and setting and even now, 16 years later, is THE definitive icon of what 40K is all about to a degree the BL books or tabletop game itself are tiny in comparison to.

Maybe as the decades go on that'll change, but I'd say it's more likely some other 40K game will come along and take that spot.

Is that true? I guess I am from a different generation, but still, the claim sounds a bit much.

I do agree, though, that TW WH was a massive hit and likely a big influx into WHFB. I wonder if the success might be behind the OW project, but that's not a "main system" for GW.

Also, is Mordheim sort of back but set in AoS with the new game? Those skeletons look incredibly good to me, even though I dislike some of the other over the top stuff.

On that note, I hope they show some restraint in OW. It was the moderation in the setting that made things like Boris stand out on the table top. If everyone is riding bears and swinging magic swords, nothing is special.

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1 hour ago, Greybeard86 said:

Also, is Mordheim sort of back but set in AoS with the new game? Those skeletons look incredibly good to me, even though I dislike some of the other over the top stuff.

Imho, nop. 

  • The setting: It's AoS game. An old city from the Age of Myths (that means we could have a Stormvault under Ulfenkarn and no stormhosts) with 3 Azyr bloodlines doing their politic things and then... Age of Chaos (as usually) and everything goes down... Of course there are parallelism between other Fantasy settings because a Cursed/damned/haunted/whatever city is of common use.
  • The game: Warhammer Quest. That means Dungeon crawler and not a fight between gangs. 
  • The design: It's a grimdark style setting. Like Mordheim and 8915461465 other games.

 

Edited by Beliman
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2 hours ago, Greybeard86 said:

Is that true? I guess I am from a different generation, but still, the claim sounds a bit much.

I do agree, though, that TW WH was a massive hit and likely a big influx into WHFB. I wonder if the success might be behind the OW project, but that's not a "main system" for GW.

WH TW and also Vermintide have been massive successes but no influx into the miniature WHFB game since both series got their first games in 2016 and 2015.

Edited by ian0delond
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35 minutes ago, ian0delond said:

WH TW and also Vermintide have been massive successes but no influx into WHFB since both series got their first games in 2016 and 2015. 

Man the Vermintide is so beautiful and climatic.  

It's a love letter to an Old World ❤️

(Empire in flames map opening still gives chills, even after all those years....)

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Also if you switch some textures (northalnder into skellies, skaven to some vampiric monsters and rats) you get a perfect intro to WHQ: Cursed City.

 

(heck just give Hardin engineer skyhook instead of mini organ gun, and give salty boy some of the Sienna's treatment so he resembles more of a new vampire hunter)

 

 

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31 minutes ago, ian0delond said:

WH TW and also Vermintide have been massive successes but no influx into WHFB since both series got their first games in 2016 and 2015.

Yeah it's been a boon in many ways, my local frequently has people come in showing interest in the hobby but get disappointed when they find the setting isn't supported.doesn't discourage most from joining the hobby but it's a lil effort and they often go to 40k instead of AoS. this is more cause the sale is easier rather then AoS being bad let me be clear, but hearing a system can be ended isn't encouraging to someone walking into the hobby and though the greybeards here LOVE AoS they encourage folks to get something they will like and not be uphill to learn the game (if you gotta get stompped your first 30 games after 100+ hobby hours its super discouraging to get into which was a HUGE problem with WHFB) . I really hope the Old World is either a good beer and pretzal game at least if not balanced, I just know for me my Kislev and wood elfs (well and a bunch of Bretonnian bits I wanted to turn into a long Malian and Mossi inspired proxy kitbash) sat on a shelf more often then not because my first 20 some games of WHFB seemed more like who had memorized the technical manual best(clearly not me) rather then me learning a new game and being a better general It never felt like I had failed strategically just Bureaucratically . Though with a Forgeworld price range IDK if that style may be good or bad, I'll have to dwell on it

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/5/2021 at 11:30 AM, Greybeard86 said:

If everyone is riding bears and swinging magic swords, nothing is special.

Aren't they already doing that with Kislev and ice magic though? But I've seen a discussion in which someone pointed at the usage of "plurals" in the old Kislev armybook, citing that these things weren't as uncommon as it might seem.

But in terms of the discussion about the attractiveness of the Old World in terms of videogame fans: It's not easy to gauge.  A lot of people have been made aware of the TT. And a lot of them are potential buyers. But how many, who knows?

Its not even easy to say how much it'll appeal to old WHFB players, as its certainly gonna be(and try to be) different enough from WHFB to fully fit into the "AoS prequel" niche that GW wants to put it in. I'm sure a lot of armies will be very different from their WHFB versions, as will the rules. And speaking from personal experience, despite being absolutely buttblasted when the old world died and badmouthing GW for a year straight, I don't miss it nearly as much as I thought I would after getting into AoS myself.

Either way, its tough to estimate attractiveness from the little information we have so far.

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  • 2 months later...

Games Workshop and Forge World are obviously setting up a replacement for Horus Heresy but I for one doubt it’s ability to take the roll. I love the Old World but I really don’t want to spend endless amounts of money on beautiful campaign books for a super crunchy game system.
If it were Warmaster scale I might be tempted, but that would limit their ability to attract non Old World gamers to buy miniatures. Even if an AoS player doesn’t play they will still buy minis to use in their army. Same goes for Horus Heresy.
I know everyone thinks Primaris will fully take over regular space marines but that would leave a lot of Heresy players with useable armies and no 30k support. We already see them sprinkling in 30k tech into 40K (Neo-vulkite, dreadnoughts). I think the same philosophy will apply the Old World. 

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4 hours ago, Vomikron said:

Games Workshop and Forge World are obviously setting up a replacement for Horus Heresy but I for one doubt it’s ability to take the roll.

I think you're misreading this one.  There's still plans for a number of more black books (think they worked out up to book 15) and The Old World has a separate design team to Age of Darkness.

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