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xking

GW and the bad names

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There has been something bothering me lately and that is the way GW is naming things in the AoS setting.

Necroquake, necrotopia, firesteel( the metal of the fyreslayers) etc.  At first I was accepting of names like this, because there are some places or things in real life, that would have names like this. 

But GW is doing it too much and it's starting to sound amateurish and lazy.  And too many of the city names are like this as well, "brightspear" "shadespire"  "Hollowheart" etc.  I understand that they are trying to do the Roman / Greek thing of naming cities after important people with the stormhost. But "Alexandria" sounds like a much better name then "Alexander port city"

Even in the Black Pyramid novel, at the end the main city is renamed from "Caddow" to "Gravewild", I think  Caddow was a much better name.

 

Edited by xking
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Highly subjective topic. Just because you think they are bad it doesn't mean they actually are bad.

As for the reason why GW is giving most things a rather unique name ... that's easily answered. So it's recognizable as their thing belonging into their setting instead of it being generic and forgetable.

Edited by Panzer
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Name=word1+word2 does make it easier for fans to name their own things. And they needed some distinct world-internal convention to bind it all together, just like the badly written German names in the old empire.

That said, it’s getting on my nerves too. 😅😎

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If you pick up a bottom of the barrel fantasy novella, or comic book, naming convention is similar.

GW has never shied away from camp, but in the old world, many city names were ripped straight from the real world, they steer away from the real world now, so this is their interpretation.

Note that the real world isn't much better, it's just that the age of names changed them from literally meaning "Lake by the wood", "Mouth of such and such river" and "Mill of this and this vale" to things that sound like the cities we know.

If you live in the mortal realms, the lake, or woods, or vale might not be the most defining thing of a city, the giant spire that actively casts shade om the whole city, or the fountain of fire that sometimes spits out ur gold, or things of similar intensity is bound to be the thing that defines it.

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23 minutes ago, xking said:

But "Alexandria" sounds like a much better name then "Alexander port city"

We have a city named like that - it's Vandium. And for me (non-native english speaker) I really like names like Shadespire, Hallowheart, Hammerhal etc... For me they sound really good. And I said that in the discussion about creature names - we have such names  (or worse) in the real world.

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8 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Note that the real world isn't much better, it's just that the age of names changed them from literally meaning "Lake by the wood", "Mouth of such and such river" and "Mill of this and this vale" to things that sound like the cities we know.

If you live in the mortal realms, the lake, or woods, or vale might not be the most defining thing of a city, the giant spire that actively casts shade om the whole city, or the fountain of fire that sometimes spits out ur gold, or things of similar intensity is bound to be the thing that defines it.

Very true. My hometown's name literally means ironforest because they used the surrounding forest to fire the ovens to melt the iron that got mined in a neighbour town. However because it's been so long the language has changed a lot and even though that's what it means it barely resembles the modern words for iron or forest. Language has changed a lot in the past 1000 years in the real world unlike it does in fantasy settings. :D
 (not an english town just in case you were wondering).

Edited by Panzer
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10 minutes ago, michu said:

We have a city named like that - it's Vandium. And for me (non-native english speaker) I really like names like Shadespire, Hallowheart, Hammerhal etc... For me they sound really good. And I said that in the discussion about creature names - we have such names  (or worse) in the real world.

I know, I think Vandium is a good name. 

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Silly names are almost the hallmark of AoS at this point. It seems to me as though it initially came out of the whole "make things more copywritable" drive from a few years back. However there must have been a point where the lore writers decided "you know what? Copywritable names have a tendency to sound a bit silly, so lets just go all in and make it our thing!"

They have certainly gone far further than they needed too in order to create a distinct IP.

Personally I find a lot of the names to be a bit too silly for my tastes. I prefer a more nuanced world building, of the sort that uses real world etymologies, or conlang type stuff to create a setting with more verisimilitude.  But that just isn't really Age of Sigmar's thing, so there's no use expecting anything more from it. We'll continue to get Slaughteroid Venganators, and Darkslain Voidwraths, and that's fine! If they changed it back to something more realistic at this point, that in itself would kind of feel a bit jarring.

What annoys me more is how incomprehensible some of their naming is. If you search for Salamanders on their website then the space marines come up before the actual salamanders, various mythical beasts have both a real version, and a 40K tank named after them, and the kit called "Iron Golems" doesn't contain any actual Golems. We all know how things work, but it creates an extra barrier to entry for people who are just getting into the hobby, and have to basically learn how GW's worlds work before they can engage with it, rather than being able to apply general knowledge of fantasy tropes to this world.

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34 minutes ago, Panzer said:

Highly subjective topic. Just because you think they are bad it doesn't mean they actually are bad.

As for the reason why GW is giving most things a rather unique name ... that's easily answered. So it's recognizable as their thing belonging into their setting instead of it being generic and forgetable.

You think "shade + spire" is more unique then " Vandium" ?    I'm complaining that the names sound lazy and not unique.  "Minas tirith" sounds unique, Hallowheart does not.

Edited by xking
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Just now, xking said:

You think "shade + spire" is more unique then " Vandium" ?    I'm complaining that the names sound lazy and not unique.  Minas tirith sounds unique, Hallowheart does not.

No, it's more recognizable. Vandium is for people of the modern language a word with more or less random letters. Shade+Spire instantly creates a visual image for anyone who speaks english and since it creates such a strong image it's much much easier to connect to the setting.

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Exactly @Panzer. If you're new, Vandium will tell you nothing if you don't know Vandus Hammerhand. When you hear "Shadespire" or "Beastgrave" you now what you can expect.

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6 minutes ago, Panzer said:

No, it's more recognizable. Vandium is for people of the modern language a word with more or less random letters. Shade+Spire instantly creates a visual image for anyone who speaks english and since it creates such a strong image it's much much easier to connect to the setting.

So it's childish then. That's ok , but they are doing it too much.

Edited by xking
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2 minutes ago, xking said:

So it's childish then. That's ok , but they are doing it too much.

So basically if people don't agree with your opinion its childish? Doesn't really seem like you wanted to have your opinion challenged here. 

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4 minutes ago, xking said:

So it's childish then. That's ok , but they are doing it too much.

You sound a bit patronizing here...

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26 minutes ago, Panzer said:

Very true. My hometown's name literally means ironforest because they used the surrounding forest to fire the ovens to melt the iron that got mined in a neighbour town. However because it's been so long the language has changed a lot and even though that's what it means it barely resembles the modern words for iron or forest. Language has changed a lot in the past 1000 years in the real world unlike it does in fantasy settings. :D
 (not an english town just in case you were wondering).

But now I’m curious. For some reason I’m guessing a German town?

 

4 minutes ago, xking said:

So it childish then. 

If that’s you interpretation of the Names then yes. To you it’s subjective. But so is playing soldiers. It’s either a highly strategical mental challenge to playing out your fantasies and everything in between. It’s subjective 
The ‘recognition’ first argument sounds valid to me. You might argue that Minas tirith* is more unique. If you asked me the name I would have struggled to remember the name even though I read the books a couple of times. That happens to me less with the hammerhal like names. 

*case and pojnt even though I just read it. I couldn’t tell you if I spelled it right. 

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9 minutes ago, xking said:

So it's childish then. That's ok , but they are doing it too much.

Less childish than complaining about such a thing I'd say. ;)

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1 minute ago, Kramer said:

But now I’m curious. For some reason I’m guessing a German town?

You'd be guessing right. ;) 

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2 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

So basically if people don't agree with your opinion its childish? Doesn't really seem like you wanted to have your opinion challenged here. 

I did not say HIS opinion was childish. 

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You never played WoW, op? Because Ironforge and Stormwind are examples of this naming method, incorporated in one of the most succesful cash cows a video game has ever grown into...

I really don't mind the city names, at least the ones i know of. What does bother me is the nomenclature for Stormcast units. We don't need more tors of any kind for goodness sake

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Yeah they sound stupid, but was there really time when they weren't? Old word had its bad German (and equally bad French), Lizardmen pun names... It's all part of a charm.

Names like Shadespire and Hammerhal sound just like what they are - typical epic fantasy names. Something you'd find in Dragonlance novels or Rhapsody songs. Is it particularily clever and refined? Hell no. Does it fit the universe where big armoured warriors hit monsters with hammers? It sure does.

Plus, as others said, it makes them recognisable for newcomers. I remember a discussion about Iron Kingdoms faction names, and how factions named like Cygnar and Khador require actual reading to know anything about them and are just random letters without it, while others, like Legion of Everblight or Blindwater Congregation instantly conjure *something* interesting in readers' minds.

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1 minute ago, Panzer said:

Less childish than complaining about such a thing I'd say. ;)

 Complaining that GW naming sounds amateurish and lazy, does not sound childish to me. 

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Just now, xking said:

 Complaining that GW naming sounds amateurish and lazy, does not sound childish to me. 

Obviously, or you wouldn't do it. Just like those names or the reasoning doesn't sound childish to us. ;) 

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2 minutes ago, xking said:

 Complaining that GW naming sounds amateurish and lazy, does not sound childish to me. 

Complaining about the names in the world of make believe toy soldiers is inherently childish. 

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3 minutes ago, xking said:

 Complaining that GW naming sounds amateurish and lazy, does not sound childish to me. 

Acting like your subjective opinion is a fact definitely fits the definition of "childish".

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Just now, SwampHeart said:

Complaining about the names in the world of make believe toy soldiers is inherently childish. 

Complaining about quality of writing is not childish.  I think there too many of the thing + thing names in AoS.    fire+steel is such a good name for a unique metal, unlike gromril.

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